the_man_of_steal wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.
No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.
Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.
the_man_of_steal wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.
No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.
Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.
but pve is a joke and doesn't matter, see this is why everyone hates pve players because their constant whining ruins pvp
the_man_of_steal wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.
No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.
Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.
but PVP is a joke and doesn't matter, see this is why everyone hates PVP players because their constant whining ruins PVE
the_man_of_steal wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.
No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.
Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.
but pve is a joke and doesn't matter, see this is why everyone hates pve players because their constant whining ruins pvp
the_man_of_steal wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.
No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.
Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.
but pve is a joke and doesn't matter, see this is why everyone hates pve players because their constant whining ruins pvp
LOL. I suppose the "No Stam Regen While Blocking" change came about because all the PVE NPC's and Boss monsters were complaining about perma-blocking?
the_man_of_steal wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.
No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.
Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.
but pve is a joke and doesn't matter, see this is why everyone hates pve players because their constant whining ruins pvp
LOL. I suppose the "No Stam Regen While Blocking" change came about because all the PVE NPC's and Boss monsters were complaining about perma-blocking?
Bad example, they already said, they changed it bc how easy tanking in pve was and how strong permablockbuilds were in pvp. And tbh, this change has improved tanking without making it hard
I honestly don't even know why I'm even bothering with continuing this discussion anyway. It's not like anybody from ZOS is going to acknowledge this thread or any of the others, and the discussions within. They've already called it a day on this patch. I don't even know why they have feedback threads in the first place if they aren't interested in the feedback the players give them.
Yeah, they seem perfectly content to simply ignore the fact that certain races in their game are simply pointless to choose from a gameplay perspective.
Best thing they could do, in my opinion, is to remove all combat related racial passives and instead have flavor based ones. That would balance the races immediately.
To be honest, I disagree. I think the combat racials bring a unique perspective into the game that allows for some interesting build diversity. It just requires people to stop following cookie-cutter FOTM builds and use that unique brains of theirs to think outside of the box. In fact, I think most races got some decent upgrades. The only ones who probably still need some love are Nords and Argonians (yes still), and maybe Bosmer by making their poison resistance more relevant to end game (bump it up to about ~3000. That's about 4% damage mitigation from poison).
To note: In physical resistance about 3k roughly is about 4% damage mitigation as we know that ~33K physical and spell resist is hard cap, so this is being extrapolated towards poison.
The problems are that 1) some races have far superior racials than others, to the point where they are simply the best choice for X style of character. And 2) the racials pigeonhold races to certain builds.
A 10% increase in your primary attribtue is a big deal. So is the sustain bonuses, which are arguably even more powerful. Coupled with the removal of softcaps which skyrocketed the value of Max Stamina and Max Magicka compared to Max Health.
It is not just about avoiding flavor of the month stuff, it is the fact that if I play a Nord, my character is inferior to any of the stamina races for damage, magicka races for healer and damage and has less defense than the Imperials for tanking. If I play a Breton, I am inferior on sustain and damage to an Altmer.
Removing the combat bonuses will give push the game away from punishing people wanting unorthodox race/build choices. Play how you want and all of that. Bonuses like increased drink duration or whatever other utility they come up with seem fine with me, but the combat stuff is needlessly punishing players for picking the "wrong" races.
And, fair enough, maybe you have some cool or good character of suboptimal races. Problem is, however, is that your character will simply be better with an optimal race, at least in PvE. PvP is more forgiving about this sort of thing, I think. Redguards and Khajiit with their damage and sustain will always be better as stamina builds, because those two things are simply more powerful for a stamina character than a health bonus which will be underwhelming at best, because of the lower health number you have. But, even if it wasn't, it would still be worse because sustain and damage is better.
That is why I am in favor of removing combat bonuses entirely. Or at least nerf them so hard into the ground that they don't affect gameplay.
twistedmonk wrote: »Shadesofkin wrote: »Prior to Skyrim, classes existed.
To this day I believe it was a failing on their part not to have classes be entirely made up of passives with various different skills bought with skill points that could then be boosted by said passives but purchasable by nearly anyone.
yeah I can agree with that. every character should have access to any skill line and customize their character how they want.
I thought spellcrafting was a step into fixing the original design flaw with the 4 classes, but that hasn't happened either (looks like it got abandoned).
removing softcaps was another mistake. its the only way to keep things in check so you don't find the weird combination of skills/gear that skyrocket your damage to where you are 1-shotting everything (and hence they put int he 50% damage reduction across the board as a hack fix - which is a joke)
I wish they would just remove stat bonuses from racials. If not that, then make them a flat value and not %. Like for Imperials give 1200 health and 1000 stamina instead of 12% health and 10% stamina. As the game progresses and the CP cap/gear cap gets raised, these % bonuses are only going to keep adding to the imbalance.
Not really, they just look better. But due to dimishing returns, they'll loose in efficiency the more magicka/stamina you already have.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I honestly don't even know why I'm even bothering with continuing this discussion anyway. It's not like anybody from ZOS is going to acknowledge this thread or any of the others, and the discussions within. They've already called it a day on this patch. I don't even know why they have feedback threads in the first place if they aren't interested in the feedback the players give them.
Yeah, they seem perfectly content to simply ignore the fact that certain races in their game are simply pointless to choose from a gameplay perspective.
Best thing they could do, in my opinion, is to remove all combat related racial passives and instead have flavor based ones. That would balance the races immediately.
To be honest, I disagree. I think the combat racials bring a unique perspective into the game that allows for some interesting build diversity. It just requires people to stop following cookie-cutter FOTM builds and use that unique brains of theirs to think outside of the box. In fact, I think most races got some decent upgrades. The only ones who probably still need some love are Nords and Argonians (yes still), and maybe Bosmer by making their poison resistance more relevant to end game (bump it up to about ~3000. That's about 4% damage mitigation from poison).
To note: In physical resistance about 3k roughly is about 4% damage mitigation as we know that ~33K physical and spell resist is hard cap, so this is being extrapolated towards poison.
The problems are that 1) some races have far superior racials than others, to the point where they are simply the best choice for X style of character. And 2) the racials pigeonhold races to certain builds.
A 10% increase in your primary attribtue is a big deal. So is the sustain bonuses, which are arguably even more powerful. Coupled with the removal of softcaps which skyrocketed the value of Max Stamina and Max Magicka compared to Max Health.
It is not just about avoiding flavor of the month stuff, it is the fact that if I play a Nord, my character is inferior to any of the stamina races for damage, magicka races for healer and damage and has less defense than the Imperials for tanking. If I play a Breton, I am inferior on sustain and damage to an Altmer.
Removing the combat bonuses will give push the game away from punishing people wanting unorthodox race/build choices. Play how you want and all of that. Bonuses like increased drink duration or whatever other utility they come up with seem fine with me, but the combat stuff is needlessly punishing players for picking the "wrong" races.
And, fair enough, maybe you have some cool or good character of suboptimal races. Problem is, however, is that your character will simply be better with an optimal race, at least in PvE. PvP is more forgiving about this sort of thing, I think. Redguards and Khajiit with their damage and sustain will always be better as stamina builds, because those two things are simply more powerful for a stamina character than a health bonus which will be underwhelming at best, because of the lower health number you have. But, even if it wasn't, it would still be worse because sustain and damage is better.
That is why I am in favor of removing combat bonuses entirely. Or at least nerf them so hard into the ground that they don't affect gameplay.
I'll reiterate an idea of mine: Make all racial bonuses a fixed amount (tied to cp/level). In other words a CP 501 Nord would get +3500 health, and say +300 Health Recovery instead of percentage bonuses. Bretons would get +4000 Magic. Altmer would get a bonus elemental damage AMOUNT say +300 Lightning damage. I'm just tossing numbers out but you get the idea. If you play the wrong 'build' it won't hurt as much and in the case of attribute bonuses, +magic could actually be useful. This would also deal with the reasons Race is a problem in the first place, since the attributes remained the same but overcharging/softcaps were removed. This solution is pretty obvious really, and I can't understand why they refuse to change it. Actually, it pisses me off a little bit, since my solution would solve the problem and a lot of Argonians would not be disappearing from the game soon.
I don't know what I'm in favor of now. I don't want to race change only to have them nerf passives into meaninglessness. I would probably quit the game.
Nothing really happened with the passives. I was expecting a lot more. The races that were subpar are still subpar and the Titans are still Titans. The only thing different now is that we can balance ourselves at a rather steep cost of crowns. Man, they don't make it easy....
I just don't think I can take the frustration of playing as an Argonian anymore. I realized that I am a min/maxer more than I thought or wished to be. 3% max magicka is a pittance, not much of an "offensive" bonus. They gave Nords 6% stamina, but felt Argonians should stay at 3%? They did the exact same thing when they increased the max health %, shorted the lizards. I don't get. They really do think Argonians have something special that I just don't see. I've played as an Argonian since launch. I know how and when their passives are useful and they are limited. ZOS obviously disagrees. I guess with the whole malubeth Templar and major mending metas maybe they'd be too strong.... I don't know. I play a NB, which lacks such burst heals or maybe i just dont know how to build properly to join the meta club.... I suppose if I were to run an Argonian in the future it would be as a magplar. Man... A lot of my original enthusiasm for the game is leaving. As the old saying goes, I guess time will tell.
PlagueMonk wrote: »I don't know what I'm in favor of now. I don't want to race change only to have them nerf passives into meaninglessness. I would probably quit the game.
Nothing really happened with the passives. I was expecting a lot more. The races that were subpar are still subpar and the Titans are still Titans. The only thing different now is that we can balance ourselves at a rather steep cost of crowns. Man, they don't make it easy....
I just don't think I can take the frustration of playing as an Argonian anymore. I realized that I am a min/maxer more than I thought or wished to be. 3% max magicka is a pittance, not much of an "offensive" bonus. They gave Nords 6% stamina, but felt Argonians should stay at 3%? They did the exact same thing when they increased the max health %, shorted the lizards. I don't get. They really do think Argonians have something special that I just don't see. I've played as an Argonian since launch. I know how and when their passives are useful and they are limited. ZOS obviously disagrees. I guess with the whole malubeHowTemplar and major mending metas maybe they'd be too strong.... I don't know. I play a NB, which lacks such burst heals or maybe i just dont know how to build properly to join the meta club.... I suppose if I were to run an Argonian in the future it would be as a magplar. Man... A lot of my original enthusiasm for the game is leaving. As the old saying goes, I guess time will tell.
I keep telling everyone but they wont listen........./beckons you to come closer and whispers in your ear *Worbel and the other Devs in charge of making racial decisions are ALL Dark Elves*
Carbonised wrote: »Just how many Dunmer magblades, templars and sorcerors do you see in this game? QED.
puffytheslayer wrote: »Could somebody please provide a link to the updated changes for ALL races, it appears to be lost under an avalanche of threads about the changes,
thank you in advance
Most PvE-manablades will change to dunmer (if they are not already) and templars also. They reverted the buff to khajiit and bosmer did deserve a buff. Breton tbh is the worst magicka-Race for DPS/Healing. Altmer is top for sorcs, whereas Dunmer is best for NB, Templar and DK.
The XP is kinda useless tbh as soon as you reach 531 CP you don't need any XP at all. All races got a semiusefull racial passive. I won't care too much about this. There will be a situation where you make use out of it (valkyn skoria for example ), but there are more situations where it is useless.
Most PvE-manablades will change to dunmer (if they are not already) and templars also. They reverted the buff to khajiit and bosmer did deserve a buff. Breton tbh is the worst magicka-Race for DPS/Healing. Altmer is top for sorcs, whereas Dunmer is best for NB, Templar and DK.
The XP is kinda useless tbh as soon as you reach 531 CP you don't need any XP at all. All races got a semiusefull racial passive. I won't care too much about this. There will be a situation where you make use out of it (valkyn skoria for example ), but there are more situations where it is useless.
What if you PvP? Breton and Altmer are still top choices. Your assessment of Breton is exaggerated. 10% boost to either stamina or magicka is still the best passive by far.