Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

Destruent

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

37k on bloodspawn selfbuffed with bow/bow should be comparable i guess.

About 12k short of what Ive seen in melee videos.

We are talking about unbuffed parses, no groupbuffs like warhorn, spell power cure, aether, night mothers gaze, alkosh and so on. Show me those 50k unbuffed parses, but i guess you can't.

Vythri

Destruent wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

37k on bloodspawn selfbuffed with bow/bow should be comparable i guess.

We're talking about 2 different things here. He said snipe ganking, and you provide a PvE build.

Destruent

No...he wanted to see a build with bow mainbar which has comparable dps-output compared to a meeleebuild.

Vythri

Destruent wrote: »

No...he wanted to see a build with bow mainbar which has comparable dps-output compared to a meeleebuild.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Only if you limit your definition to snipe ganking. Unless you can show me a build that uses bow as a primary weapon and pumps out damage comparable to top melee (with bow as secondary) or magicka builds.

Unless you gank in PvE that I'm unaware of.

Destruent

Vythri wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

No...he wanted to see a build with bow mainbar which has comparable dps-output compared to a meeleebuild.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Only if you limit your definition to snipe ganking. Unless you can show me a build that uses bow as a primary weapon and pumps out damage comparable to top melee (with bow as secondary) or magicka builds.

Unless you gank in PvE that I'm unaware of.

pls read the not bolded part.

Junkogen

All these people talking about how bows suck and what not...be glad you have other options for stamina damage. There are no melee magicka weapons. Staves are all counted as ranged attacks. Talk about restricted options.

LadyNalcarya

Van_0S wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Flawed logic... then tell me, name ONE RACE that has a very specific weapon buff as a racial passive... oh wait, there is NONE. Sure there are those with buffs for 'melee weapons' but that includes both weapons AND some class skills.

Which buffs a specific kind of playstyle. If you want to be a melee character, you play that race. If you happen to want to be a ranged character, you play what race exactly?

ADarklore wrote: »

Adding a buff exclusively for a BOW would completely pigeon hole the Bosmer and many people would be angry about that...

And having buffs for melee weapons, and elemental damage doesn't do that already? Do you even realize what you're saying? Oh I'm going to roll an Redguard magicka sorc! Oh wait I can't do that because I'm being pigeon holed into playing melee stamina! What will I do!?!?

ADarklore wrote: »

and considering the only other ranged weapon is pretty much staff (magicka) and a select few ranged class skills (also magicka), it wouldn't make sense to even give them a ranged 'weapon' buff.

Sure ranged weapon damage is fine if you want to make it that.

ADarklore wrote: »

Yet, Bosmer has a stealth attack buff which can CAN BE used to increase Bow attacks.

So if I want to be an archer, my only choice in playstyle is to be a ganker. Thanks for admitting the problem. Oh, by the way, Khajiit literally have the same exact passive.

ADarklore wrote: »

Oh, and yes, they may have had Bow buff with other ES titles... but not an MMO where the game has to be balanced. In a single player game, who cares about balance because you're not playing against other players, so the devs can do all sorts of things that wouldn't be tolerated or even make sense in an MMO.

Except this game isn't balanced. You can use a bow to apply a pre-dot execute to the target, then switch to melee and then gap close infinitely.

ADarklore wrote: »

Wrobel has said NUMEROUS TIMES about why ranged weapons don't have more buffs, but people don't want to accept what he says or his logic, they want what THEY want and won't stop arguing until they get it. Fact is, range offers less risk and should receive less reward, melee combat is more dangerous and should receive more reward.

See above. Until that is fixed, there is zero benefit to being at range in PvP. If you can't gank your target, you get gap closed and lose all the benefit of being at range. But lets just assume Wrobel is infallible, because that's an easier point to argue.

ADarklore wrote: »

However, even in that, it's amazing how some people argue that they can't be successful with a Bow and yet other people say the exact opposite. So like with anything in this game, how is it that some can be successful and others cannot? Could it be player skill that is the real determining factor, not so much a missing buff?

People argue you can be effective with a Bow in PvE. I agree with those people. In PvP that is a completely different story though. Why is it so offensive to you that a certain playstyle gets buffed a tiny amount to make it more viable in all situations? What do you get out of it exactly?

Bow is real PVP weapon and I believe bosmer should not be generic as they are master of archery. They should get bow damage buff instead generic damage buff.

As Dunmer have fire damage buff, as altmers have elements damage buff pasives

True!
But these are the passives/skills for bosmers, also.
In oblivion:
+10 Alchemy, Marksman, and Sneak
+5 Acrobatics, Alteration, and Light Armor

In skyrim:
+10 Archery, +5 Alchemy, +5 Light Armor ,+5 Lockpicking, +5 Pickpocket, +5 Sneak

As you can see that light armor and alteration are meant for magicka users. Thus, this doesn't make bosmers a stamina race but a hybrid race of both stamina and magicka.
Also, why there is no passive to increase the alchemy lvl or potion duration for some time? Since, bosmers are alchemist,also?

In Skyrim and Oblivion light armor was the same as medium in ESO and Morrowind... Robes didnt have ANY armor rating in these games, they were considered "clothing".

LadyNalcarya

@Destruent wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

37k on bloodspawn selfbuffed with bow/bow should be comparable i guess.

About 12k short of what Ive seen in melee videos.

We are talking about unbuffed parses, no groupbuffs like warhorn, spell power cure, aether, night mothers gaze, alkosh and so on. Show me those 50k unbuffed parses, but i guess you can't.

Thats a silly argument. There's no serious raid groups and guilds that would consider no-buff runs, and for pugs it doesnt matter anyway. No one would pull excellent dps with 0 support.
Dps tests should imitate actual raid environment, not some made-up "challenges" like "now do this naked and turn your screen upside down or your point is invalid".

Destruent

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@Destruent wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

37k on bloodspawn selfbuffed with bow/bow should be comparable i guess.

About 12k short of what Ive seen in melee videos.

We are talking about unbuffed parses, no groupbuffs like warhorn, spell power cure, aether, night mothers gaze, alkosh and so on. Show me those 50k unbuffed parses, but i guess you can't.

Thats a silly argument. There's no serious raid groups and guilds that would consider no-buff runs, and for pugs it doesnt matter anyway. No one would pull excellent dps with 0 support.
Dps tests should imitate actual raid environment, not some made-up "challenges" like "now do this naked and turn your screen upside down or your point is invalid".

Sure, but you cannot compare an unbuffed bloodspawn parse with a fully-buffed raid-dps-parse.

Anti_Virus

Junkogen wrote: »

All these people talking about how bows suck and what not...be glad you have other options for stamina damage. There are no melee magicka weapons. Staves are all counted as ranged attacks. Talk about restricted options.

For players that want to play a ranged stamina build there is only ONE option and its the bow the other three stamina weapon skill line are melee based.

Shadesofkin

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@Destruent wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

37k on bloodspawn selfbuffed with bow/bow should be comparable i guess.

About 12k short of what Ive seen in melee videos.

We are talking about unbuffed parses, no groupbuffs like warhorn, spell power cure, aether, night mothers gaze, alkosh and so on. Show me those 50k unbuffed parses, but i guess you can't.

Thats a silly argument. There's no serious raid groups and guilds that would consider no-buff runs, and for pugs it doesnt matter anyway. No one would pull excellent dps with 0 support.
Dps tests should imitate actual raid environment, not some made-up "challenges" like "now do this naked and turn your screen upside down or your point is invalid".

I disagree with this only because the target number we expect from an unbuffed/selfbuffed parse on our bloodspawn tests is low, if you can't hit 20k on your own there's something wrong with your "raid build".

dodgehopper_ESO

Vythri wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I found only three magicka focused races currently, argonian will be 4th and all remaining 6 races are focused on stamina. (Dunmer have stamina increase pasives, they may be sort of hybrid not pure magicka)

Is this not stamina biased approach? Should not be there more hybrid or magicka focused races? Instead of 6 pure stamina focused?

That goes more toward the problem that ZOS has now after it removed soft caps, and there are no hybrid builds anymore. You either have to be all stamina, or all magicka and nothing in between. If you could spec into both, then it wouldn't matter that your race has a bonus to stamina or magicka because you'd be using both.

If the numbers were static and not based on percentages, it would be a lot more convenient and balanced toward all builds for the most part. Granted a Redguard would still need to swat an enemy with a melee attack to take advantage of their unique adrenaline rush, same with Imperial and Red Diamond. The point is that in my example of static attributes (like regeneration as well) these races would not be penalized for being the 'wrong build'. Dual Wield for instance isn't necessarily a bad thing on magic attacks and could have a place. Red Diamond is just a bad passive and honestly doesn't work unless you're hitting stuff at melee all the time. I think the way the game works now, instead of worrying about soft caps they need to change the mentality behind the racial passives altogether.

dodgehopper_ESO

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

Nope Zos hates Bows man, any buff to ranged physical dmg is a no no lol.

Seems like bow can do good DPS: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
This is about the same meelee-stamblades get there without groupbuffs. Not bad imo

I've never really been too concerned with PvE, where I think Bow could be alright. It's the PvP part that it's not competitive outside of purely ganking or supporting a melee build.

Bosmer may get 3% bow damage and max stamina should reduce to 3%, this fits very much with lore and will makes bow users happy.

Stamina increased to 6% is also very good, bosmer are in very good position instead other classes need now more attention.

The 6% stamina is nice, but it's also too generic. That's the problem ZOS has with a lot of things though.

Generic is how they keep things 'balanced'... or try to. The problem is when you start adding in individual things that balance becomes a bigger problem especially when trying to appeal to MILLIONS of players. Not every player wants to use a Bow with Bosmer, so giving them a 'bow damage buff' would make a lot of players angry... so ZOS feels it's better to stick with generic stats and allow players to do their own customization through builds.

That's very flawed logic their man. First of all bosmers are the best archers in tamrial they had bow buffs in past ES titles so why is it hard to do they same in this game?

Second other races have passive buffs to melee dmg and some form of magic dmg makes no sense excluding ranged physical dmg but then again this is ZOS and they despise archery anyways.

Having a bow buff might make you angry as a min maxer but not everyone is a min maxer so the players that choose bosmer (which is a very unpopular race) would love a passive that fits their lore from past ES titles.

Flawed logic... then tell me, name ONE RACE that has a very specific weapon buff as a racial passive... oh wait, there is NONE. Sure there are those with buffs for 'melee weapons' but that includes both weapons AND some class skills. Adding a buff exclusively for a BOW would completely pigeon hole the Bosmer and many people would be angry about that... and considering the only other ranged weapon is pretty much staff (magicka) and a select few ranged class skills (also magicka), it wouldn't make sense to even give them a ranged 'weapon' buff. Yet, Bosmer has a stealth attack buff which can CAN BE used to increase Bow attacks. Oh, and yes, they may have had Bow buff with other ES titles... but not an MMO where the game has to be balanced. In a single player game, who cares about balance because you're not playing against other players, so the devs can do all sorts of things that wouldn't be tolerated or even make sense in an MMO.

Wrobel has said NUMEROUS TIMES about why ranged weapons don't have more buffs, but people don't want to accept what he says or his logic, they want what THEY want and won't stop arguing until they get it. Fact is, range offers less risk and should receive less reward, melee combat is more dangerous and should receive more reward.

However, even in that, it's amazing how some people argue that they can't be successful with a Bow and yet other people say the exact opposite. So like with anything in this game, how is it that some can be successful and others cannot? Could it be player skill that is the real determining factor, not so much a missing buff?

1.) Asking for a bow buff is plausable there is No other ranged physical weapon in the game except bow yet is ignored. Orcs get melee weapon dmg increase with all melee weapons and magic builds weather a caster if a magic melee player gets elemental buffs why should bow be excluded?

Makes your "melee dmg should be better argument" flawed once again altmers and dunmet get flame frost and shock dmg increase which increases their ranged dmg with staff attack yet nobody realizes that but god forbid bow users get a similar buff and its the end of the world.

2.) On the topic of your "ranged advantage argument" that too is flawed . It really takes skill to press ambush and crit charge eh over and over with no penalty while magic sorcs suffer a teleport penalty for trying to create a distance. It takes skill to dodge roll just about every ranged projectile thats clearly visible and telegraphs its location with an audio que(snipe, dark flare, crystal blast/frags)

Lets face it zos has been on a melee bias since 1.6 and its never going to stop.

Gap closers can:

- snare you constantly if spammed and have no penalty
- ignore elevation and can go up keeps
- deal high dmg
- have a ton of range 22m is pretty long ranged to charge

Why do you think the magsorc community complain? They have to put up with lower dmg low survivability(low dmg= low healing) and all their class skills are ranged which is ineffective in this stamina melee meta where people shuffle dodge roll every thing. Bow users have it even worse with the only stamina ranged skill line being a bow sucks for anything outside of ganking in PVP yet there are numerous ways to prevent a bow gank in pvp.

3.) You're going off on a tangent here but i'll counter this anyways.

In PVE anything can be successful is freaking PVE you can run dual resto staffs and be fine. But in PVP is where bow user are different. Try to 1vX with a bow how about dueal with just a bow ONLY, yeah it sounds silly doesn't it? That because it is right now in this melee meta so when bow users actually want to use a bow in PVP they have to gank and yet people QQ about that too so the struggle is real for ranged builds specificly archers.

The other problem is that a class can completely shut down an archer. I've been suggesting that reflects not be a 100% effect. This was always extremely difficult to acquire in the standalone games for a reason. In an mmo with competitive environments 100% reflect is just a terrible idea that I can't believe they even considered. Its a defensive skill, so why not make it a CHANCE to reflect with a long duration. It would save the DK or defensive posture user on heaps of magicka/stamina while at the same time offering threat back to the caster and a form of ranged mitigation. I'd say the same is true of staff skills as well.

dodgehopper_ESO

Junkogen wrote: »

All these people talking about how bows suck and what not...be glad you have other options for stamina damage. There are no melee magicka weapons. Staves are all counted as ranged attacks. Talk about restricted options.

This brings up a point. I always thought they should have made some skills be a mixture of magic and stamina. For example, Aedric Spear involves summoning 'light energy' I would guess but many of the skills also involve the physical act of jabbing or throwing. I think it would have been really neat if these skills had a shared cost and mixed damage types. The same holds true for skills like ambush or stone fist.

Reykice

Why not provide Bretons with a buff to either damage or more sustain?

Currently their 3% cost reduction is worse compared to the altmer regen... due to the Champion System and Light Armor.
Increasing it would make sense or adding a damage buff to compensate for the now useless 3% cost reduction.

To make it unique, you could make it a Magic Damage only increase by 4% up to 7% as no build uses only magic damage now... 4% as in what the Altmer get or 7% Dunmer style.

This thread has other good ideas: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/278625/breton-need-damage-buff#latest

PlagueMonk

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

So how about a dual bonus? You get bonus A when using a bow but when you do anything else that bonus switches to B (of course having such versatility would need to come with some sort of cost since other races wouldn't have this type of thing)

kadar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

I'm disappointed in the decision to revert the 6% max Stamina buff to Khajiit.

As it stands now, Khajiit racial passives are severely sub-par to Redguard, Bosmer, Imperial, Orc, and even Nord for a few different reasons.

1. 8% Weapon Critical. This passive makes Khajiit one of the strongest PVE damage races because of the current high-crit meta for max damage. Unfortunately is is all but pointless in PVP for obvious reasons (impen and sheild meta).
2. "Stealthy." This is relevant only to PVP, and only to a player whose playstyle revolves around damage from stealth (ganker). This is a great passive for Khajiit, but it may as well not be there at all. Bosmer was superior to Khajiit for any gank build pre-update 11. Post update 11, there is no need to even think about a choice. With the 6% buff to max Stamina Bosmer will be so high above Khajiit in power, only people who really love cats would pick one...
3. Health Regen. 20%. Similar to weapon critical, health regen is a very undesireable stat for PVP. This is most due to the high damage meta that we play with in Cyrodiil. The only way to get a useful benefit from health recovery is to stack the stat with sets, enchants ect. Choose to stack health recovery and you cannot deal damage. A very, very small number of tanks choose to build for health recovery and I don't believe that khajiit should be balance around such small numbers.

Based on the above PVP perspective, the only reason to choose Khajiit is for a gank build. However a Bosmer would be a far more powerful choice due to having the same stealth damage, but far more useful bonuses to stamina recovery and max stamina.

One could also choose Khajiit for the 20% Health recovery, tank build. Once again Khajiit is overshadowed by the tanking bonuses of Nords, Imperials, and Orcs.

Vythri

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

Then explain the melee bonuses, and the elemental damage bonuses. But for some reason, it's not ok for Bow users to have the same thing.

Reykice

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

• What do you think about the changes?
  
  You went for balance but some are still very unbalanced, some more tweaking is needed.
  
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others?
  
  The Redguard passive is still OP vs anything else for DPS as it provides enough stamina regen combined with Medium Armor, CP tree and Weapon Tree reduction that it is enough to sustain a build by itself. Reducing the % restored from 3% to 2% would be appropriate, it would still be the best but not as far ahead.
  
  Too weak?
  
  For magicka, Bretons are now left behind... their 3% cost reduction even for a pure dps build with no cost reduction is still less compared to the Altmer regeneration and it makes it worthless as a 3rd tier racial. Increasing it or making it a Magic Damage would bring Bretons in line with the other magicka races and both would be unique racials.
  
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
  
  The rollback to Khajit and buff to Altmer will force me to make all my Stamina dps redguards and all my mages Altmer or Dunmer.(most are anyway) For stamina Khajit is still a bit ahead in DPS but the sustain Redguards provide is worth much more than a small dps difference.
  
  For magicka its really no contest, Bretons were left so far behind now if you want sustain you go Altmer and if you use fire damage or Destro Staff you go Dunmer. Bretons are no longer needed... changes would be great to make them either the sustain race with a 8% cost reduction or the magic dps race with a 4% to 7% magic damage(not elemental) addition.
  
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?
  
  Redguards are still going to allow me to just ignore any kind of sustain for stamina builds as their racials provide both excellent damage via 10% stamina and the best sustain in the game via the unique Adrenaline Rush. I wish an quivalent to Adrenaline Rush existed for Magicka builds too.
  
  For magicka, sustain is much harder this patch and there is still no racial better for sustain than the Altmer regeneration.
  

Junkogen

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

All these people talking about how bows suck and what not...be glad you have other options for stamina damage. There are no melee magicka weapons. Staves are all counted as ranged attacks. Talk about restricted options.

For players that want to play a ranged stamina build there is only ONE option and its the bow the other three stamina weapon skill line are melee based.

For melee magicka there are NO options.

KingShocker

how about no more pigeon holing racial passives?

as an example if someone wants to be a khajiit mage they will get smoked (in pvp and pve) by a high elf or Breton (etc.) who has ALL three racial passives benefiting their build. and vice versa (excluding that worthless sneaky passive).

I suggest either:

1. making the passives balanced in the sense they each give you something for each type of build- tanking, magika dps, stam dps, healing, etc.

2. or (and this will be allot easier on you guys, Zos) just removing combat based racial passives entirely. leaving just the cosmetic passives (like swim speed). then just relocate those benefits to future skill lines or whatever.

I know you guys (Zos) think giving us race change is the answer to this but maybe some of us want to be wood elf tanks or red guard healers or whatever

I know @Wrobel, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , or anyone else at zenimax will probably never read this but if, by chance, they do I beg them to consider racial equality in tamerial.

Anti_Virus

Junkogen wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

All these people talking about how bows suck and what not...be glad you have other options for stamina damage. There are no melee magicka weapons. Staves are all counted as ranged attacks. Talk about restricted options.

For players that want to play a ranged stamina build there is only ONE option and its the bow the other three stamina weapon skill line are melee based.

For melee magicka there are NO options.

Thats the problem with Zos and community they expect magic builds to be ranged and stamina build to be melee. Not the other way around.

There are "magic melee" options though class skills have this magic NB magic templar and magic DK are all stamina based melee classes with sorc being the only ranged class.

xwilhelm

The changes to nord are very disapointing, it feels more like a nerf, not every nord play as stamina character, some of us use magika and others only health because we have 9% bonus. If we wanted an stamina race there are much better options than nords.

All about nords is survibality, we have health regen, health bonus and damage reduction, and with argonians are the only races without stamina or magika bonus, we can choose the atribute we want. This update seems like you give up with health and regen definitely, and instead of improve them want every race choose magika or stamina, health becoming more and more undesirable.

Nords were really expecting a buff or fix to the Rugged passive to work properly, not this. Actually the 6% damage reduction only works fine if you have 0 mitigation, for tanks with 50% mitigation its effect is reduced to only 3 % reduction, that means the higher your mitigation its becomes more useless, that makes no sense for a tanky class.

juhasman

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can we get Orc swift warrior passive change? Currently it increases meele dmg and that means it's increasing dmg of melee skills in 1h+shield and 2 handed weapons but not in dual wield. Can we get 4% more physical dmg instead?

Amdar_Godkiller

Rather than the added frost and shock damage, I think Dunmer should have received stam recovery and increased 
damage over time. This way those of us who use Dunmer Stamina DKs as our main/only characters aren't nerfed for
a second straight update (poison morphs). Give Frost and Shock Damage to Nords and Argonians instead. They
dps utility. 

Overpowered: All 3 of the Magic races (there's already too much resource stacking among magic builds.
It's well known that magic builds can more easily stack magic and stam builds can more easily stack weapon damage,
so for balance to exist all max magicka racial passives should be changed to spell damage instead, otherwise you should give weapons damage racial passives, because a 10% increase to Magic is much more akin to a 15% increase to max stamina)
, Khajit, Imperial, Redguard, and Bosmer. 

Bosmer were fine before the 
resource addition, Redguard are super-powered. Cut the regen to 3%. Imperial  should have health or stamina bonus
cut in half, Khajit- Drop the Crit to 3% and give them 3% max stamina,

Underpowered: Nord and Argonian

Balanced: Orc

Please stop giving max resources to races that already have recovery and/or other damage bonuses. Build diversity is
dependent on providing interesting choices with opportunity costs. There shouldn't be obvious Best in Show races.

Give Argonians and Nords something unique that certain builds would find vital. For Argonians, I'd suggest 

"Coldblooded" 10% increase to frost damage and a small boost to spells critical

For the Nords, I'd give 350 critical resistance and a Smithing bonus that increases armor and weapon trait values by 20%. 
(for example-6% well-fitted bonus instead of 5 and 5500ish penetration for sharpened weapons)

Aidanp02

Increase Argonians Max Magicka to 6%, Increase their poison/disease Resistance, and restore 18% Max Stamina, Magicka, and Health every time you drink a potion.

Increase Bosmers Poison/Disease Resistance, 6% Stamina, 21% Regeneration

Increase Bretons Reduce Magicka cost to 12%

Give Nords the 30% Health Regeneration, with the 6% Stam, also increase the damage mitigation to 10%

Give Orcs 4% increased physical damage instead of the 6% weapon damage

P.S. Could you possibly think about bringing back the Warden Class? I've gotten a bit bored with the same 4 classes, I mean sure things about them are changed all the time, but something new would really keep me happy!!!

PlagueMonk

Vythri wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

Then explain the melee bonuses, and the elemental damage bonuses. But for some reason, it's not ok for Bow users to have the same thing.

Well because melee covers a huge number of weapons and skill sets? and elemental covers 3 skill sets while bow is........bow.

but you seem to have completely glazed over the fact I OFFERED a ******** solution for you but I guess that isn't important? >< Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.

Vythri

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

Then explain the melee bonuses, and the elemental damage bonuses. But for some reason, it's not ok for Bow users to have the same thing.

Well because melee covers a huge number of weapons and skill sets? and elemental covers 3 skill sets while bow is........bow.

but you seem to have completely glazed over the fact I OFFERED a ******** solution for you but I guess that isn't important? >< Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.

You do realize that pretty much everybody uses a bow as a secondary weapon right? And you can't just gloss over the fact that a specific playstyle benefits from melee bonuses, and one doesn't. I guess it's cool if you're in the majority though.

Either way, I've said in this thread that I'd prefer a buff to Poison damage. That would make DK's happy I'm sure. Or they could just make all of the other racial passives that specifically state melee, to instead say physical weapon attacks.

PlagueMonk

Vythri wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

Then explain the melee bonuses, and the elemental damage bonuses. But for some reason, it's not ok for Bow users to have the same thing.

Well because melee covers a huge number of weapons and skill sets? and elemental covers 3 skill sets while bow is........bow.

but you seem to have completely glazed over the fact I OFFERED a ******** solution for you but I guess that isn't important? >< Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.

You do realize that pretty much everybody uses a bow as a secondary weapon right? And you can't just gloss over the fact that a specific playstyle benefits from melee bonuses, and one doesn't. I guess it's cool if you're in the majority though.

Either way, I've said in this thread that I'd prefer a buff to Poison damage. That would make DK's happy I'm sure. Or they could just make all of the other racial passives that specifically state melee, to instead say physical weapon attacks.

1) no, "everyone" doesn't use a bow. Only stamina users and then many use 2H in the second row. Not saying that's still not a lot of people (maybe 25-30% if I was to guess?)

2) What part of SOLUTION don't you freakin' get? You are so focused on negativity that you can't comprehend what I was proposing? HERE, let me try again.....(and I quote from my original post) "So how about a dual bonus? You get bonus A when using a bow but when you do anything else that bonus switches to B" You can then use YOUR wish for a poison buff in "A". You are welcome.

Lord_Eomer

Vythri wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

No...he wanted to see a build with bow mainbar which has comparable dps-output compared to a meeleebuild.

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Only if you limit your definition to snipe ganking. Unless you can show me a build that uses bow as a primary weapon and pumps out damage comparable to top melee (with bow as secondary) or magicka builds.

Unless you gank in PvE that I'm unaware of.

PVE Ganking Build

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

Then explain the melee bonuses, and the elemental damage bonuses. But for some reason, it's not ok for Bow users to have the same thing.

Well because melee covers a huge number of weapons and skill sets? and elemental covers 3 skill sets while bow is........bow.

but you seem to have completely glazed over the fact I OFFERED a ******** solution for you but I guess that isn't important? >< Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.

You do realize that pretty much everybody uses a bow as a secondary weapon right? And you can't just gloss over the fact that a specific playstyle benefits from melee bonuses, and one doesn't. I guess it's cool if you're in the majority though.

Either way, I've said in this thread that I'd prefer a buff to Poison damage. That would make DK's happy I'm sure. Or they could just make all of the other racial passives that specifically state melee, to instead say physical weapon attacks.

1) no, "everyone" doesn't use a bow. Only stamina users and then many use 2H in the second row. Not saying that's still not a lot of people (maybe 25-30% if I was to guess?)

2) What part of SOLUTION don't you freakin' get? You are so focused on negativity that you can't comprehend what I was proposing? HERE, let me try again.....(and I quote from my original post) "So how about a dual bonus? You get bonus A when using a bow but when you do anything else that bonus switches to B" Youy can ecen use YOUR wish for a poison buff in "A". You are welcome.

Seems make sense, I as also interested in now damage but it seems it will make this race limited for bow builds

I am now thinking of rolling bosmer magicka build for PVP due to stealth bonus + good stamina recovery (cc brea k + dodge)