Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

Kalifas · July 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Just so you know I understand the bow argument. It's crap that Bosmers get no bow bonus BUT I also well understand the opposite side of the argument......If I don't use a bow you basically get NO BONUS.

So how about a dual bonus? You get bonus A when using a bow but when you do anything else that bonus switches to B (of course having such versatility would need to come with some sort of cost since other races wouldn't have this type of thing)

Or Just give Bosmer a Bow boost to be better at than other weapons and don't lock them into anything after that.

Racial Traits:

Racial Traits are race locked. This provides a purpose to playing alternate races and characters. The traits here are powerful and are dynamic, by dynamic I mean that playing on this race feels different on each race because they require different scenarios to be effective. Yes, I proposed to have weapons give more meaning than experience points. I also moved some very powerful sets like adrenaline rush to the modifier list under the Dynamic Support Modifier section.

Bosmer

Archery Expertise Increases experience gain with the Bow Skill line by 15% and increases damage with a bow by 2%.
Cutpurse Increases your chance to pickpocket by 10% and can fence stuff for 2% more gold.
Y'ffre's Endurance Increases Stamina Regeneration by 7/14/21%.
Bow Talent Increases your weapon skill damage with a bow by 1/3/5% and increases bow range by 1/2/3 meters.
Resist Affliction Increases Poison and Disease Resistance by 1320/2940/3960.Increases Max Stamina by 2/4/6%

Modifier Traits:
Dynamic Modifiers are select-able passives and are chosen at the character creation screen. The concept is you lose something to gain something else. At anytime during gameplay outside combat, these dynamic modifiers are switch-able and give the player some control over how they want their build to progress forever or for certain occasions which might call for different setups. Makes any class decent at any build regardless of locked racial passives.

You can only choose one modifier from either the dynamic stance modifier or dynamic stealth modifier. You cannot choose one from each for those two. You can then choose one dynamic support modifier to compliment your first choice.

As a player who wants to heal, you might choose mender with red diamond attacks, or mender with wit if you went with a dynamic stance modifier as your primary choice. You might choose shadowmender with red diamond attacks or shadowmender with wit if you went with a dynamic stealth modifier as your primary choice.

The Dynamic Stance Modifier:

With these select-ables you can change your playstyle how you want just by toggling the passive on.

Become a Adept at:

Speed and overall weapon attacks
Be good at acrobatics and Light Attacks
Be good at critical damage with increased skill cost
Be good at burst magic damage when standing still
Be good at DoT magic when playing aggressive
Be good at healing when minimizing aggro
Gain increased health recovery and defense when tanking

By toggling these below on. Can only have one toggled on and can't use stealth modifier at same time.

Swift Warrior Reduces Sprint Cost by 4/8/12% and increases Sprint speed by 3/6/10%. Increase damage with melee weapon attacks by 2/3/4% and increases stamina recovery by 1/2/3%.
Energetic Reduces roll dodge Cost by 4/8/12% and increases Sprint speed by 3/6/10%. Increases critical hit rate on light attacks by 3/5/8% when an enemies focus is not on you. Increases critical hit rate on light attacks by 2/4/6% when an enemies focus is on you. Decreases stamina recovery by 1/2/3%.
Enraged Increases stamina cost of weapon based skills by 2/4/6%. Increase critical damage of heavy attacks by 3/5/8% when an enemies focus is on you. Increases critical damage by
2/4/6% when an enemies focus is not on you. Increases stamina recovery by 1/2/3%
Inert Increases the cost of magicka spells by 2/4/6% and increases damage of magicka damage spells by 2/4/6% when standing still for 3 seconds.Decreases movement/sprint speed by 3/6/10% for 3 seconds after moving from the inert stance. The cost and damage of spells reverts to normal after moving.
Instigator Increases the cost of dot spells by 1/2/3%.Increases the damage of dots by 6% and the duration of damage over time spells by 1/3/5 seconds when standing in the line of fire. 15% of damage taken while standing in the red is converted to magicka.
Mender Increases the cost of magicka spells by 1/2/3%. Increases the healing done by 3/6/9% and the duration of healing over time spells by 1/3/5 seconds while an enemies focus is not on you.
Defiant Increases your physical resistance by 1320/2640/3960. Increases the healing received by 3/6/9% and health recovery by 12% when an enemies focus is on you.

With these select-ables you can change your playstyle how you want just by toggling the passive on.

Become a Adept at:

Stealth Damage at ranged distance
Stealth Damage in close quarters
Increased Dot damage while stealthed
Increased magic burst damage while stealthed with increased spell cost
Increased healing while in stealthed
Increased damage while stealthed and play a magical absorbtion tank

By toggling these below on. Can only have one toggled on and can't use stance modifier at same time.

The Dynamic Stealth Modifier:

Lurker Decrease Stealth radius by 1/2/3 meters. Increases damage done while stealthed by 3/6/9%. Increases physical critical damage by 1/2/3% when standing at max distance allowed for initiating combat.
Stealthy Decrease Stealth radius by 1/2/3 meters. Increases damage done while Stealthed by 3/6/9%. Standing behind an enemy while stealthed increases physical critical rate by 1/2/3%.
ShadowScourge Decrease Stealth radius by 1/2/3 meters. Increases damage done while stealthed by 3/6/9%. Increases the damage of Dots by 3% while stealthed and the duration of dots by 1/3/5 seconds. Gains a Minor Evasion boost of 10% for 3 seconds after stealth is broken.
ShadowBurst Decreases Stealth Radius by 1/2/3 meters. Increases damage done while stealthed by 3/6/9%.Increases cost of magicka spells by 1/2/3% and increases damage of magicka spells by 1/2/3% while stealthed.Increases magicka recovery by 1/2/3% for 5 seconds after stealth is broken. The cost and damage of spells reverts to normal once stealth is broken.
ShadowMender Decrease Stealth radius by 1/2/3 meters. Increases healing done while stealthed by 3/6/9%. Increases the potency of Hots by 3% while stealthed and the duration of HoTs by 1/3/5 seconds. Damage taken reduced by 10% for 3 seconds after stealth is broken.
ShadowScale Decreases Stealth radius by 1/2/3 meters. Increases damage done while stealthed by 3/6/9%.When stealth breaks You project 3 shadows that absorb up to three damage spells.Any enemy that depletes a shadow will become more focused on you.

Add an additional support function to a class while toggling one of these on below.

The Dynamic Support Modifier:

Edge Has a 10% chance to decrease an enemies resistance to physical criticals by 2/4/6% with a melee attack. This can only happen every 10 seconds. Edge will increase allies in party weapon critical rate by 1/2/3% when Edge procs.
Rot Has a 10% chance to decrease an enemies resistance to magical criticals by 2/4/6/% with a melee attack. This can only happen every 10 seconds. Edge will increase allies in party spell critical rate by 1/2/3% when Rot procs.
Sunder Has a 10% chance to disorient an enemy with a melee attack. This can only happen every 10 seconds. Sunder will increase allies in party melee weapon damage by 1/2/3% when Sunder procs.
Wit Has a 10% chance to restore 24/48/72 Magicka to player when damaging an enemy with a Melee attack. This can happen no more than once every 5 seconds. Wit will restore 24/48/72 magicka to any allies in party as well when Wit procs.
Adrenaline Rush Has a 10% chance to restore 24/48/72 Stamina to player when damaging an enemy with a Melee attack. This can happen no more than once every 5 seconds. Adrenaline Rush will restore 24/48/72 stamina to any allies in party as well when Adrenaline Rush procs.
Red Diamond Melee attacks Has a 30% chance to restore 64/128/192 Health. Red Diamond Melee Attacks will restore 64/128/192 health to allies in party as well when it procs.

Racial Revision Suggestion

Xizzicks · July 2016

I would love to see some more drastic changes to each of the race's passives! Make each race have at least one passive that drastically changes gameplay. Even give each race a unique active skill maybe. Maybe bosmer can have an active that allows you to summon or control beasts. Redguards could have an active that increases stamina regen and weapon damage. Dunmer could summon an ancestral spirit that protects from fire and deals some damage. Etc.

Vythri · July 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

1) no, "everyone" doesn't use a bow. Only stamina users and then many use 2H in the second row. Not saying that's still not a lot of people (maybe 25-30% if I was to guess?)

Well I thought it was implied that it was only stamina users. Either way, my entire point this whole time is that it's perfectly ok to have bonuses to melee attacks, but it's not ok to do the same for ranged. Why is that? That's why I said at the end of my post that they should just change the word "melee" to something else to include bows as well. That would certainly help to alleviate the issue. There should never be a melee only racial passive in the first place. Why discriminate against players that don't prefer to play that style? Isn't doing so forcing me in the opposite direction, and forcing me to be melee?

PlagueMonk wrote: »

2) What part of SOLUTION don't you freakin' get? You are so focused on negativity that you can't comprehend what I was proposing? HERE, let me try again.....(and I quote from my original post) "So how about a dual bonus? You get bonus A when using a bow but when you do anything else that bonus switches to B" Youy can ecen use YOUR wish for a poison buff in "A". You are welcome.

No need to be a *** about this. I understand what you're trying to say. ZOS won't make such a complicated passive though, so why discuss it, even if it is a good idea?

Either way let's just cut out all of the crap that we all said in the past during this thread and boil my argument down to one simple statement...

Why is it ok for melee and magicka users to have buffs to their damage/utility, but it's not ok for bows to have the same?
If you agree that it doesn't make sense, and there is in fact a problem that needs resolved, then how do you go about fixing it?

I can only speak for myself, but I'd prefer to see a buff to Poison damage. That way, not only 1 group of players in this game (bow users) would be happy with the buff, it would fit lore wise, and it would provide something unique to the class. If you have to modify the other passives Bosmer has to make it balanced, then so be it.

That's all I'm asking for. Unfortunately, some people take any form of giving a buff to bow users as a personal affront to their very essence as a human being (and I'm most definitely not directing that at you).

Vythri · July 2016

I honestly don't even know why I'm even bothering with continuing this discussion anyway. It's not like anybody from ZOS is going to acknowledge this thread or any of the others, and the discussions within. They've already called it a day on this patch. I don't even know why they have feedback threads in the first place if they aren't interested in the feedback the players give them.

Tdroid · July 2016

Vythri wrote: »

I honestly don't even know why I'm even bothering with continuing this discussion anyway. It's not like anybody from ZOS is going to acknowledge this thread or any of the others, and the discussions within. They've already called it a day on this patch. I don't even know why they have feedback threads in the first place if they aren't interested in the feedback the players give them.

Yeah, they seem perfectly content to simply ignore the fact that certain races in their game are simply pointless to choose from a gameplay perspective.

Best thing they could do, in my opinion, is to remove all combat related racial passives and instead have flavor based ones. That would balance the races immediately.

Kronuxx · July 2016

Tdroid wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

I honestly don't even know why I'm even bothering with continuing this discussion anyway. It's not like anybody from ZOS is going to acknowledge this thread or any of the others, and the discussions within. They've already called it a day on this patch. I don't even know why they have feedback threads in the first place if they aren't interested in the feedback the players give them.

Yeah, they seem perfectly content to simply ignore the fact that certain races in their game are simply pointless to choose from a gameplay perspective.

Best thing they could do, in my opinion, is to remove all combat related racial passives and instead have flavor based ones. That would balance the races immediately.

To be honest, I disagree. I think the combat racials bring a unique perspective into the game that allows for some interesting build diversity. It just requires people to stop following cookie-cutter FOTM builds and use that unique brains of theirs to think outside of the box. In fact, I think most races got some decent upgrades. The only ones who probably still need some love are Nords and Argonians (yes still), and maybe Bosmer by making their poison resistance more relevant to end game (bump it up to about ~3000. That's about 4% damage mitigation from poison).

To note: In physical resistance about 3k roughly is about 4% damage mitigation as we know that ~33K physical and spell resist is hard cap, so this is being extrapolated towards poison.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

Still think the racials are fine, just make sure that Dunmer is actually working correctly.

Junkogen · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Still think the racials are fine, just make sure that Dunmer is actually working correctly.

Wow, it's still not working?

TrinityBreaker · July 2016

Drop health regen on khajiit and give them spell crit.

I will love them forever AND my mag sorc khajiit will hit harder

I am being very serious about this.

Tdroid · July 2016

Kronuxx wrote: »

Tdroid wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

I honestly don't even know why I'm even bothering with continuing this discussion anyway. It's not like anybody from ZOS is going to acknowledge this thread or any of the others, and the discussions within. They've already called it a day on this patch. I don't even know why they have feedback threads in the first place if they aren't interested in the feedback the players give them.

Yeah, they seem perfectly content to simply ignore the fact that certain races in their game are simply pointless to choose from a gameplay perspective.

Best thing they could do, in my opinion, is to remove all combat related racial passives and instead have flavor based ones. That would balance the races immediately.

To be honest, I disagree. I think the combat racials bring a unique perspective into the game that allows for some interesting build diversity. It just requires people to stop following cookie-cutter FOTM builds and use that unique brains of theirs to think outside of the box. In fact, I think most races got some decent upgrades. The only ones who probably still need some love are Nords and Argonians (yes still), and maybe Bosmer by making their poison resistance more relevant to end game (bump it up to about ~3000. That's about 4% damage mitigation from poison).

To note: In physical resistance about 3k roughly is about 4% damage mitigation as we know that ~33K physical and spell resist is hard cap, so this is being extrapolated towards poison.

The problems are that 1) some races have far superior racials than others, to the point where they are simply the best choice for X style of character. And 2) the racials pigeonhold races to certain builds.

A 10% increase in your primary attribtue is a big deal. So is the sustain bonuses, which are arguably even more powerful. Coupled with the removal of softcaps which skyrocketed the value of Max Stamina and Max Magicka compared to Max Health.

It is not just about avoiding flavor of the month stuff, it is the fact that if I play a Nord, my character is inferior to any of the stamina races for damage, magicka races for healer and damage and has less defense than the Imperials for tanking. If I play a Breton, I am inferior on sustain and damage to an Altmer.

Removing the combat bonuses will give push the game away from punishing people wanting unorthodox race/build choices. Play how you want and all of that. Bonuses like increased drink duration or whatever other utility they come up with seem fine with me, but the combat stuff is needlessly punishing players for picking the "wrong" races.

And, fair enough, maybe you have some cool or good character of suboptimal races. Problem is, however, is that your character will simply be better with an optimal race, at least in PvE. PvP is more forgiving about this sort of thing, I think. Redguards and Khajiit with their damage and sustain will always be better as stamina builds, because those two things are simply more powerful for a stamina character than a health bonus which will be underwhelming at best, because of the lower health number you have. But, even if it wasn't, it would still be worse because sustain and damage is better.

That is why I am in favor of removing combat bonuses entirely. Or at least nerf them so hard into the ground that they don't affect gameplay.

Eas007 · July 2016

Nord just seems a poor version of Imperial now imo.

Sporvan · July 2016

Imperial Passive - Red Diamond:

The best suggestion I've seen from another thread to change this irrelevant passive is to make it give Max Magicka and truly make Imperials the jack of all trade master of none race.

Even as the racially promoted tank role I'd rather have Max Magicka than the minuscule unnoticeable heal Red Diamond provides.

Voryn_Dagoth · July 2016

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Rather than the added frost and shock damage, I think Dunmer should have received stam recovery and increased
damage over time. This way those of us who use Dunmer Stamina DKs as our main/only characters aren't nerfed for
a second straight update (poison morphs).

I proposed similar changes on the same thought, by removing the Max Magicka from Resist Flame and adding Poison Damage (or Alchemical Poison) next to the bonus Flame Damage, both at lower values. So Dunmers can be viable for Magicka and Stamina builds, without outclassing the other races. I like your ideas even better.

Vythri · July 2016

Voryn_Dagoth wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Rather than the added frost and shock damage, I think Dunmer should have received stam recovery and increased
damage over time. This way those of us who use Dunmer Stamina DKs as our main/only characters aren't nerfed for
a second straight update (poison morphs).

I proposed similar changes on the same thought, by removing the Max Magicka from Resist Flame and adding Poison Damage (or Alchemical Poison) next to the bonus Flame Damage, both at lower values. So Dunmers can be viable for Magicka and Stamina builds, without outclassing the other races. I like your ideas even better.

If Dunmer got poison damage... man... just no.

Anhedonie · July 2016

Remove 2% of shock and frost damage. Dunmers have pretty balanced racials.
But please, fix it. It is still not working on rank 2 and 3.

Vythri wrote: »

Either way, I've said in this thread that I'd prefer a buff to Poison damage. That would make DK's happy I'm sure. Or they could just make all of the other racial passives that specifically state melee, to instead say physical weapon attacks.

Yeah, because pulling 55k dps in trials isn't enough.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

Voryn_Dagoth wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Rather than the added frost and shock damage, I think Dunmer should have received stam recovery and increased
damage over time. This way those of us who use Dunmer Stamina DKs as our main/only characters aren't nerfed for
a second straight update (poison morphs).

I proposed similar changes on the same thought, by removing the Max Magicka from Resist Flame and adding Poison Damage (or Alchemical Poison) next to the bonus Flame Damage, both at lower values. So Dunmers can be viable for Magicka and Stamina builds, without outclassing the other races. I like your ideas even better.

it's vastly lore unfriendly to give them access to poison damage bonuses. Destructive Talent at least makes sense, even if no one is sure they needed it.

That being said, please get to working on part 2 and 3 of that passive it's still not working correctly. I'd rather not have Almter suddenly become the best PVE DK race.

Chronologist · July 2016

*rubs chin*

Big changes... is this going live with crown store racial change?

Voryn_Dagoth · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Voryn_Dagoth wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Rather than the added frost and shock damage, I think Dunmer should have received stam recovery and increased
damage over time. This way those of us who use Dunmer Stamina DKs as our main/only characters aren't nerfed for
a second straight update (poison morphs).

I proposed similar changes on the same thought, by removing the Max Magicka from Resist Flame and adding Poison Damage (or Alchemical Poison) next to the bonus Flame Damage, both at lower values. So Dunmers can be viable for Magicka and Stamina builds, without outclassing the other races. I like your ideas even better.

it's vastly lore unfriendly to give them access to poison damage bonuses. Destructive Talent at least makes sense, even if no one is sure they needed it.

Right. And still, I can spit (breath) poison and have venomous claws with my Dunmer, something they usually don't do, if I choose to have it. If we want to go full lore-friendly, then how about restricting races to certain classes that are culturally and historically more truthful to their lore? Or actually more appropriate, removing classes all together and let everyone freely choose their skills?

I don't mean this actually, but my point is that the game is already riddled with comprises for mechanics sake. And in this regard, as stated, I wasn't insisting on anything and just pondered some thoughts for a dual build viability.

twistedmonk · July 2016

unfortunately the player base on the forums can't even agree. its split about eliminating racial passives altogether or not.

personally any +%stat/regen should be removed from racial passives. Just so many things wrong with them - how do you balance pve content - do you assume everybody is an altmer for magic and redguard for stamina? or do you design for least common denominator...doesn't make sense to me to make things harder on yourself as a game designer either, why would you do that to yourself.

it's a bad idea - i understand the inspiration came from the elder scrolls single player game...but things that wouldn't matter in a single player game can be a big negative impact in a MMO.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

Voryn_Dagoth wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Voryn_Dagoth wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Rather than the added frost and shock damage, I think Dunmer should have received stam recovery and increased
damage over time. This way those of us who use Dunmer Stamina DKs as our main/only characters aren't nerfed for
a second straight update (poison morphs).

I proposed similar changes on the same thought, by removing the Max Magicka from Resist Flame and adding Poison Damage (or Alchemical Poison) next to the bonus Flame Damage, both at lower values. So Dunmers can be viable for Magicka and Stamina builds, without outclassing the other races. I like your ideas even better.

it's vastly lore unfriendly to give them access to poison damage bonuses. Destructive Talent at least makes sense, even if no one is sure they needed it.

Right. And still, I can spit (breath) poison and have venomous claws with my Dunmer, something they usually don't do, if I choose to have it. If we want to go full lore-friendly, then how about restricting races to certain classes that are culturally and historically more truthful to their lore? Or actually more appropriate, removing classes all together and let everyone freely choose their skills?

I don't mean this actually, but my point is that the game is already riddled with comprises for mechanics sake. And in this regard, as stated, I wasn't insisting on anything and just pondered some thoughts for a dual build viability.

Prior to Skyrim, classes existed.

To this day I believe it was a failing on their part not to have classes be entirely made up of passives with various different skills bought with skill points that could then be boosted by said passives but purchasable by nearly anyone. I believe choosing to have our abilities as "Health, Stamina, and Magicka" was a blunder as well since if we'd been given the original attributes, racials could have bumped those instead but leveling up would still have allowed a certain amount of customization with the expenditure of attribute points. i/e: a player who chose to be Argonian would have plenty of Endurance naturally, but chose not to max that out with gained attribute points and instead invested them in Willpower and Intelligence, which would then increase his magicka totals.

But if you want to really get into the whole spit fire/poison thing, it's an akaviri martial art that the Dunmer learned during their fight against the invaders. So actually, your dunmer knowing it isn't entirely a stretch.

twistedmonk · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Prior to Skyrim, classes existed.

To this day I believe it was a failing on their part not to have classes be entirely made up of passives with various different skills bought with skill points that could then be boosted by said passives but purchasable by nearly anyone.

yeah I can agree with that. every character should have access to any skill line and customize their character how they want.

I thought spellcrafting was a step into fixing the original design flaw with the 4 classes, but that hasn't happened either (looks like it got abandoned).

removing softcaps was another mistake. its the only way to keep things in check so you don't find the weird combination of skills/gear that skyrocket your damage to where you are 1-shotting everything (and hence they put int he 50% damage reduction across the board as a hack fix - which is a joke)

Voryn_Dagoth · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Prior to Skyrim, classes existed.

Yes, but only in name. You could even make up your own class. For the most part: The skills were still all the same, the class would just define which skills would get a boost right from the start and help towards leveling, by splitting them up in primary, secondary (Oblivion) and tertiary skills (Morrowind). Arguably the race maybe had a bigger impact in terms of variety. So actually, your class knowledge isn't entirely a stretch. (Just joking

)

To this day I believe it was a failing on their part not to have classes be entirely made up of passives with various different skills bought with skill points that could then be boosted by said passives but purchasable by nearly anyone. I believe choosing to have our abilities as "Health, Stamina, and Magicka" was a blunder as well since if we'd been given the original attributes, racials could have bumped those instead but leveling up would still have allowed a certain amount of customization with the expenditure of attribute points. i/e: a player who chose to be Argonian would have plenty of Endurance naturally, but chose not to max that out with gained attribute points and instead invested them in Willpower and Intelligence, which would then increase his magicka totals.

Well, that is the typical balance problem, when you try to port a game to another genre. I am here on the same page as you.
Still, I commend the devs for going the harder way, to try and create a more complex and interesting game design in this regard, instead of just simplifying as it is mostly done since some time.

But if you want to really get into the whole spit fire/poison thing, it's an akaviri martial art that the Dunmer learned during their fight against the invaders. So actually, your dunmer knowing it isn't entirely a stretch.

Since my knowledge on Dunmers isn't a stretch I am probably at miss here, but first you critize my poison thought because it is incompatible to Dunmer lore, but now "the whole spit fire/poison thing, it's an akaviri martial art that the Dunmer learned during their fight against the invaders", is actually lore authentic? Also, didn't the DK have zero Poison morphs only until a couple of months ago?

Look, as I already stated before, my post was not about Poison Damage, but about how to make Dunmer at least viable for Stamina builds. Since you are are so - understandably - focusing on lore authenticity: The Dunmer are in general not just regarded as sorcerer or mage types, but just as much as warriors. And I don't want them on a top position on the Stamina podium, but right now they are considerably underperforming in this regard.

As I stated in one of the earlier pages, I actually liked your Weapon Damage thought, but even more so the increased DOT idea from @Amdar_Godkiller. As this is obviously not popular enough I will step back for now, as I am not interested in a personal tid-for-tad.

Cheers

Iove · July 2016

Question. Why is Breton passive for 3% reduced magicka cost still unchanged? It was 3% pre-soft cap removal, and back then with caps it was kind of great, but not since. It is now very very weak compared to Altmer magicka regen racial, which became significantly stronger upon removal of soft caps. If the goal here is to balance racials, Bretons need a little buff where this is concerned, or maybe a change to it all-together.

Iove · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

I think it would be fair to request magic damage % to be added to Breton's Spell Resistance passive.

Breaks lore to do that

Oh and it doesn't break lore to give Dunmer extra frost damage? I think this lore argument falls apart right about now. I see no reason why Breton's can't have some sort of damage enhancement, or perhaps +12% magicka instead of +10%. Sneaky

Shadesofkin · July 2016

Voryn_Dagoth wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Prior to Skyrim, classes existed.

Yes, but only in name. You could even make up your own class. For the most part: The skills were still all the same, the class would just define which skills would get a boost right from the start and help towards leveling, by splitting them up in primary, secondary (Oblivion) and tertiary skills (Morrowind). Arguably the race maybe had a bigger impact in terms of variety. So actually, your class knowledge isn't entirely a stretch. (Just joking )

To this day I believe it was a failing on their part not to have classes be entirely made up of passives with various different skills bought with skill points that could then be boosted by said passives but purchasable by nearly anyone. I believe choosing to have our abilities as "Health, Stamina, and Magicka" was a blunder as well since if we'd been given the original attributes, racials could have bumped those instead but leveling up would still have allowed a certain amount of customization with the expenditure of attribute points. i/e: a player who chose to be Argonian would have plenty of Endurance naturally, but chose not to max that out with gained attribute points and instead invested them in Willpower and Intelligence, which would then increase his magicka totals.

Well, that is the typical balance problem, when you try to port a game to another genre. I am here on the same page as you.
Still, I commend the devs for going the harder way, to try and create a more complex and interesting game design in this regard, instead of just simplifying as it is mostly done since some time.

But if you want to really get into the whole spit fire/poison thing, it's an akaviri martial art that the Dunmer learned during their fight against the invaders. So actually, your dunmer knowing it isn't entirely a stretch.

Since my knowledge on Dunmers isn't a stretch I am probably at miss here, but first you critize my poison thought because it is incompatible to Dunmer lore, but now "the whole spit fire/poison thing, it's an akaviri martial art that the Dunmer learned during their fight against the invaders", is actually lore authentic? Also, didn't the DK have zero Poison morphs only until a couple of months ago?

Look, as I already stated before, my post was not about Poison Damage, but about how to make Dunmer at least viable for Stamina builds. Since you are are so - understandably - focusing on lore authenticity: The Dunmer are in general not just regarded as sorcerer or mage types, but just as much as warriors. And I don't want them on a top position on the Stamina podium, but right now they are considerably underperforming in this regard.

As I stated in one of the earlier pages, I actually liked your Weapon Damage thought, but even more so the increased DOT idea from @Amdar_Godkiller. As this is obviously not popular enough I will step back for now, as I am not interested in a personal tid-for-tad.

Cheers

my final point on knowing the DK martial art was to concede the point on how you spit fire/poison. You're not wrong, it would be nice to see them gain something that made them stronger in stamina roles. Now, that being said, I think that the Red Mountain does some of that work for us. Red Mountain is a purely stamina set after all, with that 8k fire damage. I'm hoping they don't attempt to correct it and instead it becomes a go-to set for Stamina Dunmer.

the_man_of_steal · July 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.

Tdroid · July 2016

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno please please please give Khajits more stam. Please.

No, please don't do that mistake again. They are already one of the two best races for stamina damage dealers in PvE. They don't need to be the undisputed best race for that.

Anyway, with the next round of natch potes, I hope we will see the races more balanced. Doubt it though. Orcs and Nords will remain pretty pointless to play as. Sigh.

Tyhar · July 2016

I wish they would just remove stat bonuses from racials. If not that, then make them a flat value and not %. Like for Imperials give 1200 health and 1000 stamina instead of 12% health and 10% stamina. As the game progresses and the CP cap/gear cap gets raised, these % bonuses are only going to keep adding to the imbalance.

Destruent · July 2016

Tyhar wrote: »

I wish they would just remove stat bonuses from racials. If not that, then make them a flat value and not %. Like for Imperials give 1200 health and 1000 stamina instead of 12% health and 10% stamina. As the game progresses and the CP cap/gear cap gets raised, these % bonuses are only going to keep adding to the imbalance.

Not really, they just look better. But due to dimishing returns, they'll loose in efficiency the more magicka/stamina you already have.

Ashamray · July 2016

Breton cost reduction should be 6%. Nowadays 3% is tiny. Even in heavy armor (with CP but without glyphs) my 3600 Breath of Life will cost 3500. For light armor users it will be even less.