Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

bebynnag

Destruent wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

Could somebody please provide a link to the updated changes for ALL races, it appears to be lost under an avalanche of threads about the changes,

thank you in advance

Patchnotes 2.5 and 2.5.2 are your friend...

Thnx 4 the help,

Shadesofkin

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

A number of great Dunmer mDK DPS set ups have begun using the Lightning Staff on their back bar combined with the Infallible Aether set. A boost to lightning adds to the already impressive AOE that it's capable of providing as well as single target applications during weaving.

The Overwhelming Surge set is Lightning Damage, which will receive an increase to it's totals thanks to this new additional passive bonus, the mDK rotations rely very very heavily on Class Skills and this will be useful for those who wish to try things that do not fully revolve around Julianos or Twice Born Star all the time. I refer to my newest build write up as "The Blue Dragon"

It is not "useless" you just seem to lack any imagination. I will bet 20k gold I will be able to get respectable Veteran Trial numbers with the set ups I just mentioned (in fact I already do with Aether).

The Dunmer is in a good place, it's almost laughable to think anyone would be unhappy with them.

Carbonised

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

A number of great Dunmer mDK DPS set ups have begun using the Lightning Staff on their back bar combined with the Infallible Aether set. A boost to lightning adds to the already impressive AOE that it's capable of providing as well as single target applications during weaving.

The Overwhelming Surge set is Lightning Damage, which will receive an increase to it's totals thanks to this new additional passive bonus, the mDK rotations rely very very heavily on Class Skills and this will be useful for those who wish to try things that do not fully revolve around Julianos or Twice Born Star all the time. I refer to my newest build write up as "The Blue Dragon"

It is not "useless" you just seem to lack any imagination. I will bet 20k gold I will be able to get respectable Veteran Trial numbers with the set ups I just mentioned (in fact I already do with Aether).

The Dunmer is in a good place, it's almost laughable to think anyone would be unhappy with them.

If you think Overwhelming Surge is better than Julianos, then it's you who are laughable. And in any case, an Altmer would most likely be better than a Dunmer in that set regardless, even with the +2 % extra damage.

Infallible Mage is also not a dps set, it's usually one of the healer who wear it at trials, not the dps (who go for Juli or TBS instead). I do't care if you get 'respectable' numbers at trials. First of all, you would also get 'respectable' numbers in Juli or TBS, and trials is a tiny part of things you can do in ESO anyway.

I'm not saying Dunmer is not in a good place, I'm saying I'm unhappy with the changes, since Dunmer get nothing useful, while other races at least get something that has use.

I would rather they had given us +2 % extra magic damage. That would at least have been useful for those few skills that deal magic damage, while still not buffing those already OP stamina DKs.

Lord_Eomer

Developers show some respect to players and.check their feedback on forum.

Destruent

Carbonised wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

A number of great Dunmer mDK DPS set ups have begun using the Lightning Staff on their back bar combined with the Infallible Aether set. A boost to lightning adds to the already impressive AOE that it's capable of providing as well as single target applications during weaving.

The Overwhelming Surge set is Lightning Damage, which will receive an increase to it's totals thanks to this new additional passive bonus, the mDK rotations rely very very heavily on Class Skills and this will be useful for those who wish to try things that do not fully revolve around Julianos or Twice Born Star all the time. I refer to my newest build write up as "The Blue Dragon"

It is not "useless" you just seem to lack any imagination. I will bet 20k gold I will be able to get respectable Veteran Trial numbers with the set ups I just mentioned (in fact I already do with Aether).

The Dunmer is in a good place, it's almost laughable to think anyone would be unhappy with them.

If you think Overwhelming Surge is better than Julianos, then it's you who are laughable. And in any case, an Altmer would most likely be better than a Dunmer in that set regardless, even with the +2 % extra damage.

Infallible Mage is also not a dps set, it's usually one of the healer who wear it at trials, not the dps (who go for Juli or TBS instead). I do't care if you get 'respectable' numbers at trials. First of all, you would also get 'respectable' numbers in Juli or TBS, and trials is a tiny part of things you can do in ESO anyway.

I'm not saying Dunmer is not in a good place, I'm saying I'm unhappy with the changes, since Dunmer get nothing useful, while other races at least get something that has use.

I would rather they had given us +2 % extra magic damage. That would at least have been useful for those few skills that deal magic damage, while still not buffing those already OP stamina DKs.

One of the best raced in TESO gets extra damage and you are complaining? cmom...and btw. if you think infallible on a DK is not strong, you should seriously check your numbers. And surge on a DK is something i really want to try, that buff to dunmer helps with this set. I think DKs are the class, where this set can get the best numbers.
2% more shock/frost damage has more use than 1% more XP, or more inspiration. Some players will profit from this extra damage, some not. but atleast dunmer got something they can profit from in combat. Stop complaining about such crap pls.

Shadesofkin

Carbonised wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

A number of great Dunmer mDK DPS set ups have begun using the Lightning Staff on their back bar combined with the Infallible Aether set. A boost to lightning adds to the already impressive AOE that it's capable of providing as well as single target applications during weaving.

The Overwhelming Surge set is Lightning Damage, which will receive an increase to it's totals thanks to this new additional passive bonus, the mDK rotations rely very very heavily on Class Skills and this will be useful for those who wish to try things that do not fully revolve around Julianos or Twice Born Star all the time. I refer to my newest build write up as "The Blue Dragon"

It is not "useless" you just seem to lack any imagination. I will bet 20k gold I will be able to get respectable Veteran Trial numbers with the set ups I just mentioned (in fact I already do with Aether).

The Dunmer is in a good place, it's almost laughable to think anyone would be unhappy with them.

If you think Overwhelming Surge is better than Julianos, then it's you who are laughable. And in any case, an Altmer would most likely be better than a Dunmer in that set regardless, even with the +2 % extra damage.

Infallible Mage is also not a dps set, it's usually one of the healer who wear it at trials, not the dps (who go for Juli or TBS instead). I do't care if you get 'respectable' numbers at trials. First of all, you would also get 'respectable' numbers in Juli or TBS, and trials is a tiny part of things you can do in ESO anyway.

I'm not saying Dunmer is not in a good place, I'm saying I'm unhappy with the changes, since Dunmer get nothing useful, while other races at least get something that has use.

I would rather they had given us +2 % extra magic damage. That would at least have been useful for those few skills that deal magic damage, while still not buffing those already OP stamina DKs.

I would never say "better" than Julianos, but I could easily pull numbers that would be a direct benefit to the party's dps with Overwhelming and I know it. Altmer would not be better since you're still using Fire damage on all of your class skills. Not every single thing needs to be directly optimized, sometimes creativity is useful and good for the game, this offers creativity.

Aether builds on DK are a thing, you may not know it or like it, but it's a thing and it works great on a DPS.

The Altmer got nothing useful, exp is silly after you hit cap.

The Orcs are still weaker than other races

Bretons have sustain...literally that's it. Oh yeah they gain AP, but I consider PVP a complete waste of my time, so nuts to that.

Redguard lost some of their sustain.

I'm not seeing any reason to complain about them, you cannot possibly expect them to gain Magicka Damage when if anyone would get that it would either be Bretons or Altmer. Destructive Ancestory is both beneficial and lore friendly, and lets keep in mind that there are a very large number of Lava infested instances we can safely not take damage from. City of Ash, DSA, upcoming Vvardenfell, Maelstrom Arena, etc etc.

PlagueMonk

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

Carbonised

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

You know, you're completely right. In fact, why don't I take that petty 3 % max magicka and 5 % healing done off your hands, and you can have my lava resistance and 2 % frost/lightning instead. Sounds good? o_0

Samuel_Bantien

Junkogen wrote: »

What if you PvP? Breton and Altmer are still top choices. Your assessment of Breton is exaggerated. 10% boost to either stamina or magicka is still the best passive by far.

For PvP:
Breton: 10% Magicka, Spell Resist (completely penetrated with 1 single weapon trait, useless Racial), Diminishing Returns on their 3% Spell Reduction Racial (rendered useless until made additive or buffed). - Weakest PvP Race.
Dunmer: 9% Magicka (only 1% less than Breton/Altmer), 4% Stamina (larger pool for PvP actions such as breakfree - also scales well with trifood and tri enchants). -2nd Best for Magicka PvP but also have the option to become viable stamina builds. -Also the best magicka dk race for PvE and PvP.
Altmer: 10% Magicka, 9% Magicka Regeneration - no diminishing returns, easier to stack with CP and Gear sets such as obvious popular choices: Kagrenac and Seducer. Top Magicka PvP honcho.

Aidanp02

Carbonised wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

You know, you're completely right. In fact, why don't I take that petty 3 % max magicka and 5 % healing done off your hands, and you can have my lava resistance and 2 % frost/lightning instead. Sounds good? o_0

Yeah, but at least dunmer had good passives to begin with, rather than some crappy extra health and swim speed. Which is exactly what argonians had and will still have. 3% is next to nothing, and 5% healing done isn't exactly going to suddenly make every healer build want to be an argonian. So in the end, argonians still have nothing, and will always have nothing. The only reason that people play argonians is for the race itself, rather than passives it has.

Silver_Strider

Carbonised wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

You know, you're completely right. In fact, why don't I take that petty 3 % max magicka and 5 % healing done off your hands, and you can have my lava resistance and 2 % frost/lightning instead. Sounds good? o_0

@Carbonised
Your comparison is outright terrible.
Dunmer have been fine from the get-go, Argonians have been limited to a subpar tank race for the better part of ESO's lifespan, with only the short time before 1.6 where they had a decent synergy with NB being the only time Argonians had SOMETHING unique that worked wonderfully only to have it nerfed to death.

Dunmer get 2 buff, 1 that increases your damage numbers even higher and 1 that while limited in utility is still completely free without a single nerf to any of your racials, whereas Argonians lost 4% healing received, which was our main tank passive, for 5% increased healing done, which is sort of redundant as overhealing is already stupid easy to do, and 3% more magic, which is laughably small in comparison to the 9-10% more magic that the 3 other magic races have, thus making all their support abilities stronger anyways. We became better healers in general but healing is more than just having strong heals, it also means providing some level of support via shards/force siphon/etc and since more magic makes those skills stronger, the other 3 Magic races are still better suited for healers, on top of the fact that Breton/Altmer at least have higher levels of sustain via their cost reduction and magic regen passives respectively.

Argonians have always struggled to be relevant in this game and as nice as the recent buffs are, it really isn't enough to make them overly competitive.

Aidanp02

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

You know, you're completely right. In fact, why don't I take that petty 3 % max magicka and 5 % healing done off your hands, and you can have my lava resistance and 2 % frost/lightning instead. Sounds good? o_0

@Carbonised
Your comparison is outright terrible.
Dunmer have been fine from the get-go, Argonians have been limited to a subpar tank race for the better part of ESO's lifespan, with only the short time before 1.6 where they had a decent synergy with NB being the only time Argonians had SOMETHING unique that worked wonderfully only to have it nerfed to death.

Dunmer get 2 buff, 1 that increases your damage numbers even higher and 1 that while limited in utility is still completely free without a single nerf to any of your racials, whereas Argonians lost 4% healing received, which was our main tank passive, for 5% increased healing done, which is sort of redundant as overhealing is already stupid easy to do, and 3% more magic, which is laughably small in comparison to the 9-10% more magic that the 3 other magic races have, thus making all their support abilities stronger anyways. We became better healers in general but healing is more than just having strong heals, it also means providing some level of support via shards/force siphon/etc and since more magic makes those skills stronger, the other 3 Magic races are still better suited for healers, on top of the fact that Breton/Altmer at least have higher levels of sustain via their cost reduction and magic regen passives respectively.

Argonians have always struggled to be relevant in this game and as nice as the recent buffs are, it really isn't enough to make them overly competitive.

I completely agree

PlagueMonk

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

You know, you're completely right. In fact, why don't I take that petty 3 % max magicka and 5 % healing done off your hands, and you can have my lava resistance and 2 % frost/lightning instead. Sounds good? o_0

@Carbonised
Your comparison is outright terrible.
Dunmer have been fine from the get-go, Argonians have been limited to a subpar tank race for the better part of ESO's lifespan, with only the short time before 1.6 where they had a decent synergy with NB being the only time Argonians had SOMETHING unique that worked wonderfully only to have it nerfed to death.

Dunmer get 2 buff, 1 that increases your damage numbers even higher and 1 that while limited in utility is still completely free without a single nerf to any of your racials, whereas Argonians lost 4% healing received, which was our main tank passive, for 5% increased healing done, which is sort of redundant as overhealing is already stupid easy to do, and 3% more magic, which is laughably small in comparison to the 9-10% more magic that the 3 other magic races have, thus making all their support abilities stronger anyways. We became better healers in general but healing is more than just having strong heals, it also means providing some level of support via shards/force siphon/etc and since more magic makes those skills stronger, the other 3 Magic races are still better suited for healers, on top of the fact that Breton/Altmer at least have higher levels of sustain via their cost reduction and magic regen passives respectively.

Argonians have always struggled to be relevant in this game and as nice as the recent buffs are, it really isn't enough to make them overly competitive.

I.......YEAH what he said.

the_man_of_steal

Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Give Khajits a stamina bonus. Compared to Redguard & Bosmer Khajits just cannot compete.

PS4_ZeColmeia

I posted this in combat mechanics, Please make the khajiit passive work for both spell and weapon damage and that balances that race for the most part.

Van_0S

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I posted this in combat mechanics, Please make the khajiit passive work for both spell and weapon damage and that balances that race for the most part.

Why khajiit?
Bosmer need those spell crit/damage or max magicka regen/magicka. They still use magic in lore for making houses.

Lumenn

Van_0S wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I posted this in combat mechanics, Please make the khajiit passive work for both spell and weapon damage and that balances that race for the most part.

Why khajiit?
Bosmer need those spell crit/damage or max magicka regen/magicka. They still use magic in lore for making houses.

Bosmer have had plus in alteration in the past, (plus alchemy )spinners use magicka, and they were awesome in illusion. The lore is there.(stealth, illusion, bows, poisons,) It's why I was hoping for magicka regeneration instead of a stamina plus. Dark elves get plus to both, bosmer could get regen to both. Since we apparently are DESIGNED to be 2nd best(not have the sustain of redguards, and not the damage of khajiit but be "in the middle" of both) let us have our magicka regen!

Maztiax

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Give Khajits a stamina bonus. Compared to Redguard & Bosmer Khajits just cannot compete.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYU_eDMr4xE

TrinityBreaker

Give my khajiit stam DK back his max stam damnit!

emsuperman24

The Nord changes are disappointing to say the least. 6% stamina is nice, but costing us 10%hr in exchange just doesn't feel like an upgrade. What's the harm in keeping hr 30%? Also reworking rugged to be a constant 6% damage reduction as opposed to having it lose value with the more armor you have would be nice.

Ultimately it would have been better if they added durability to nords and not took away in exchange for damage. As it works out now they didn't close the gap on any other races. Behind all races in terms of dps and took a step down from their primary role as tanks. Imperials will be even more popular for that specific role.

Jar_Ek

I'm going to reiterate my concerns with Argonian passives one last time... cause you never know.

The Argonian passives are a mismash of half thought through changes that leave the race in no mans land. They aren't first choice tanks or healers or dps, or even hybrids. They are decent self healers of any persuasion (10.05%) and thats about it.

The healing received and done passive is generally worse than either of the other two options for min max, and only very marginally better for solo/self healing.

The poison/disease resistances only add to your current resistances up to resistance caps and dont do anything vs player poisons that don't do damage but apply debuffs. Making it completely useless for tanks and pretty poor for everyone else - partly due to being situational, partly because they don't help with another primary role, and partly due to being quite a small boost.

The potion passive is extremely annoying rather than really bad, because in theory it should be good but in practice it isn't. The resource return would be very good, but for the fact that potions are not generally used solely as a resource regeneration mechanism. They are used for buffs/prebuffs, emergencies, cc immunity and invisibility/detection as well. Meaning a chug on 45s cooldown to get the passive bonuses is a gameplay limitation as you can no longer situationally apply them. This may be okay for some situations and bad in others (pvp). Of course potions cost money and currently have no working cooldown reduction which doesn't help.

Finally a max health bonus mostly helps tanks more than anyone else, and the small magicka bonus won't push Argonians to be anyones first magicka race choice.

This therefore leaves an unfocused passive mess that is not great for anything and hence why Argonians are probably the least populace race in Tamriel. The current passives certainly don't encourage shadowscales and sneak thieves (which has been the traditional view of Argonians), but as can be seen they are not really evocative of hist born sentient marsh lizards either... except for swim speed (which is mechanically nearly the worst flavour passive as it grants nothing actually useful to gameplay).

Junkogen

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I'm going to reiterate my concerns with Argonian passives one last time... cause you never know.

The Argonian passives are a mismash of half thought through changes that leave the race in no mans land. They aren't first choice tanks or healers or dps, or even hybrids. They are decent self healers of any persuasion (10.05%) and thats about it.

The healing received and done passive is generally worse than either of the other two options for min max, and only very marginally better for solo/self healing.

The poison/disease resistances only add to your current resistances up to resistance caps and dont do anything vs player poisons that don't do damage but apply debuffs. Making it completely useless for tanks and pretty poor for everyone else - partly due to being situational, partly because they don't help with another primary role, and partly due to being quite a small boost.

The potion passive is extremely annoying rather than really bad, because in theory it should be good but in practice it isn't. The resource return would be very good, but for the fact that potions are not generally used solely as a resource regeneration mechanism. They are used for buffs/prebuffs, emergencies, cc immunity and invisibility/detection as well. Meaning a chug on 45s cooldown to get the passive bonuses is a gameplay limitation as you can no longer situationally apply them. This may be okay for some situations and bad in others (pvp). Of course potions cost money and currently have no working cooldown reduction which doesn't help.

Finally a max health bonus mostly helps tanks more than anyone else, and the small magicka bonus won't push Argonians to be anyones first magicka race choice.

This therefore leaves an unfocused passive mess that is not great for anything and hence why Argonians are probably the least populace race in Tamriel. The current passives certainly don't encourage shadowscales and sneak thieves (which has been the traditional view of Argonians), but as can be seen they are not really evocative of hist born sentient marsh lizards either... except for swim speed (which is mechanically nearly the worst flavour passive as it grants nothing actually useful to gameplay).

Spot on. They're not really any better off with this patch.

As I've said before, I'm getting out of this mess. Argonians are just a headache for anyone who cares about passives. It's not worth the frustration now that race change is an option. If you're an ESO plus subscriber with crowns collecting dust, I would not think twice about changing the race of an Argonian character, unless you're an Argonian magplar. That's the only setup that seems fit for an Argonian now.

In general, the Pact races are kind of hybrid, mishmashy races. You don't get the straight jacked up races like Redguard or Altmer. I just can't think of a reason to take a Pact race over another, which is sad.

dodgehopper_ESO

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

This is not entirely true. I agree with you that the Breton AP change is stupid, as it effects standing in alliance war which needs reconsideration. I don't mind they perhaps get more reward, but it should not count toward Standing. The lava choice makes sense and its thematic, deal with it. The bonus elemental damage fits the dunmer historic talent with 'destruction' magic. I'd like to point out that Altmer are historically the best at this however. I personally would be very annoyed if Dunmer were given a poison damage bonus as there are other races where this would make significantly more sense, namely Bosmer and Argonian, both of which also deserve a greater boost to Poison/Disease resistance more in the realm of 4000 (Breton levels of spell resist). I'd also like to point out that bonuses to other elemental damages do have some value. Ice Comet for instance will benefit from this bonus, and is in some ways a much better version of the ultimate. The bonus elemental damage also greatly benefits both Dunmer and Altmer alike, particularly on the Force Shock skill. Its clear that an Altmer makes a better Sorcerer than a Dunmer, but it is minimal and I would add the Dunmer makes better use of a fire staff in this scenario. I get it, you like Dunmer, I do too. In fact I play a Dunmer DK Fire Mage (It was V16 and played a lot of content with it, it was also my second max vet character when the game came out). I don't want to see them being pushed far and above everyone else though.

dodgehopper_ESO

Destruent wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Most PvE-manablades will change to dunmer (if they are not already) and templars also. They reverted the buff to khajiit and bosmer did deserve a buff. Breton tbh is the worst magicka-Race for DPS/Healing. Altmer is top for sorcs, whereas Dunmer is best for NB, Templar and DK.
The XP is kinda useless tbh as soon as you reach 531 CP you don't need any XP at all. All races got a semiusefull racial passive. I won't care too much about this. There will be a situation where you make use out of it (valkyn skoria for example ), but there are more situations where it is useless.

What if you PvP? Breton and Altmer are still top choices. Your assessment of Breton is exaggerated. 10% boost to either stamina or magicka is still the best passive by far.

depends on your build and what you are focussing on. But even if 10% boost to stats is superior to everything, Altmer are stronger bc they get also 4% more elemental damage. For firebased build (or builds with only fire as elemental dmg) dunmer is stronger than altmer if you have more than 20% firedamage.
You seem to forget that 10% more stats is not 10% more dmg. It's more like 3...5%, depending on the build. For spell/weapon dmg-based builds it's less, for Stam/Magicka-based builds it is more.

I really want to see them get rid of percentile bonuses to attributes. They FORCE players to go down a path or gimp their character. If these bonuses were the same regardless of whether you were a mage, warrior or thief build they would be far less limiting and far more in the spirit of the elder scrolls series. If this were another game I really would not mind, but it has the Elder Scrolls title in it and it should at least nod to the theme of the series. Get rid of this percentile garbage. It made sense when we had overcharging/soft caps. It makes no sense in the current design of the game.

dodgehopper_ESO

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

I concur. I'm still unhappy with Argonian racials as well, and I'm a diehard Argonian Shadowscale who will not give up on playing this character, and there's no damn way I'm going to pay to screw up the character's theme to play something that operates better. I don't consider it my fault that ZoS can't get their *** together and make Argonians the Guerrilla Warfare race they are supposed to be. I'd like to add that Orc actually feels more Argonian-like from the passives than Argonian does.

dodgehopper_ESO

Carbonised wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

As a Dunmer magicka DK, I am somewhat disappointed in your racial changes for the Dunmer race

Argonians get a large buff to magic and healing. Some of this was needed, but still, a rather large buff.

Khajiit, already very useful, got an increased pickpocketing, which is nice. Also I cannot believe you even considered giving them max stamina. Who would even think that was a good idea?

Wood elves, already very powerful, get even more stamina, which is extremely good.

High elf get more exp, Bretons get more AP, and so on.

And what do Dunmer get? Lava damage halved. Seriously? Extremely useless, circumstancial and comical use at best. Unless you have the habit of falling down into lava pools constantly, this is a joke.

And frost and shock damage increased 2 %. Come on, are you trolling us here? Every Dunmer in this game is created to make use of the DK class, the Inferno staff, and otherwise utilize our + flame damage racial. Do you think people will start making Dunmer sorcerors, when an Altmer or Breton would still be better? For us Dragonknights, it is completely useless. None of the skills for magicka nor stamina are ice or shock, so basically you're giving us a buff that doesn't buff us in any single way.

Not only does it make zero sense in a lore perspective, Dunmer have nothing to do with shock or ice, it also seems trollish to give us a buff that isn't really a buff, when other classes get something that's either very useful or at least somewhat useful.

You asked what I feel about the race changes?`Well here are my thoughts, I'm disappointed through and through.

The Dragonknight class is already one of the most manhandled one, you keep nerfing it, changing things that didn't need to be changed, and ignoring things that needs attention. Apparently now my race is also going through the same treatment as my class. No thank you.

Wait, WHAT? Where is this rather large buff Argonians got?! Did I miss it somehow???!

Now if nothing has changed, I wouldn't call a nerf to healing received by almost half, a 5% add to healing done and 3% max magicka "large". If people only understood why this wasn't great.

This is the type of thing that keeps Argonians down......people who do not play the race and have no idea about the racials (and the current issues with them) or how they changed but yet see some random numbers and jump to the conclusion they got some huge buff. Please stop making gross assumptions.......please.

You know, you're completely right. In fact, why don't I take that petty 3 % max magicka and 5 % healing done off your hands, and you can have my lava resistance and 2 % frost/lightning instead. Sounds good? o_0

Sure, why don't we take that 9% max magicka and 6% max stamina off your hands while we're at it? This is a really bad argument. Let it go.

dodgehopper_ESO

Lumenn wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I posted this in combat mechanics, Please make the khajiit passive work for both spell and weapon damage and that balances that race for the most part.

Why khajiit?
Bosmer need those spell crit/damage or max magicka regen/magicka. They still use magic in lore for making houses.

Bosmer have had plus in alteration in the past, (plus alchemy )spinners use magicka, and they were awesome in illusion. The lore is there.(stealth, illusion, bows, poisons,) It's why I was hoping for magicka regeneration instead of a stamina plus. Dark elves get plus to both, bosmer could get regen to both. Since we apparently are DESIGNED to be 2nd best(not have the sustain of redguards, and not the damage of khajiit but be "in the middle" of both) let us have our magicka regen!

Interesting idea. I've always felt that Argonians should have been more regenerative as well (and quite possibly should have gotten something similar to swift warrior or stealthy or both).

Lumenn

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I posted this in combat mechanics, Please make the khajiit passive work for both spell and weapon damage and that balances that race for the most part.

Why khajiit?
Bosmer need those spell crit/damage or max magicka regen/magicka. They still use magic in lore for making houses.

Bosmer have had plus in alteration in the past, (plus alchemy )spinners use magicka, and they were awesome in illusion. The lore is there.(stealth, illusion, bows, poisons,) It's why I was hoping for magicka regeneration instead of a stamina plus. Dark elves get plus to both, bosmer could get regen to both. Since we apparently are DESIGNED to be 2nd best(not have the sustain of redguards, and not the damage of khajiit but be "in the middle" of both) let us have our magicka regen!

Interesting idea. I've always felt that Argonians should have been more regenerative as well (and quite possibly should have gotten something similar to swift warrior or stealthy or both).

Argonians should definitely have more regeneration and the same stealth bonus bosmer share.(always viewed them as similar. One swamps, other forest. Both good at stealth. Bosmer-alchemy poison dealing, Argonian-poison/disease resistance. Both have sneaky attacks and both have NEGLECTED MAGICKA LORE! Argonian should have the regeneration and Bosmer the bows.) Just my opinion anyway.

Aidanp02

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I'm going to reiterate my concerns with Argonian passives one last time... cause you never know.

The Argonian passives are a mismash of half thought through changes that leave the race in no mans land. They aren't first choice tanks or healers or dps, or even hybrids. They are decent self healers of any persuasion (10.05%) and thats about it.

The healing received and done passive is generally worse than either of the other two options for min max, and only very marginally better for solo/self healing.

The poison/disease resistances only add to your current resistances up to resistance caps and dont do anything vs player poisons that don't do damage but apply debuffs. Making it completely useless for tanks and pretty poor for everyone else - partly due to being situational, partly because they don't help with another primary role, and partly due to being quite a small boost.

The potion passive is extremely annoying rather than really bad, because in theory it should be good but in practice it isn't. The resource return would be very good, but for the fact that potions are not generally used solely as a resource regeneration mechanism. They are used for buffs/prebuffs, emergencies, cc immunity and invisibility/detection as well. Meaning a chug on 45s cooldown to get the passive bonuses is a gameplay limitation as you can no longer situationally apply them. This may be okay for some situations and bad in others (pvp). Of course potions cost money and currently have no working cooldown reduction which doesn't help.

Finally a max health bonus mostly helps tanks more than anyone else, and the small magicka bonus won't push Argonians to be anyones first magicka race choice.

This therefore leaves an unfocused passive mess that is not great for anything and hence why Argonians are probably the least populace race in Tamriel. The current passives certainly don't encourage shadowscales and sneak thieves (which has been the traditional view of Argonians), but as can be seen they are not really evocative of hist born sentient marsh lizards either... except for swim speed (which is mechanically nearly the worst flavour passive as it grants nothing actually useful to gameplay).

Wow, you just identified my every reason for why argonians should get better buffs, spot on.

Aidanp02

I'm honestly tired of the argonian debate, I'm going to explain what I believe that argonians should receive;

Resourceful - Increase Magicka Regeneration by 5/10/15% and Health Regeneration by 2/4/6%

Hist Knowledge - Increase Magicka by 2/4/6% and Stamina by 2/4/6%

Healthy Glow - Increase Healing Received by 9% and Healing done by 9%

My reasoning behind the Resourceful passive is that there aren't any magicka regeneration races, but since argonians shouldn't be a top notch magicka race I added health recovery too.

Hist Knowledge Increases your Max Magicka and Stamina because argonians, likewise, have always been adept at magic AND combat.

Healthy Glow incorporates healing done for healers and Healing Received is somewhat a loose way to bring back histskin.