Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.
Yeah because its a real group effort with Trade Guilds. Join a group of strangers, make sure you contribute your weekly dues and then sell your items to complete strangers.
Iluvrien has figured it out guys. Trade Guilds are on the forefront of keeping dirty casual solo play at bay in this game. We can all go home and rest easy.
As for the majority base there is no way of knowing where the majority stands on this issue. A very small percentage of players actually post to these forums and this issue is usually split mostly even when a thread gets posted. You are lucky if you get twenty peoples opinions in a thread like this and twenty is nowhere near a majority.
Let's add AH to the game and let people vote with their feet. This would be most objective research.
As for the majority base there is no way of knowing where the majority stands on this issue. A very small percentage of players actually post to these forums and this issue is usually split mostly even when a thread gets posted. You are lucky if you get twenty peoples opinions in a thread like this and twenty is nowhere near a majority.
Let's add AH to the game and let people vote with their feet. This would be most objective research.
I don't walk into MacDonalds and rally the customers to vote that they serve shrimp. If you don't like what ZOS servers on it's platter...then, well, WoW has an auction house.
As for the majority base there is no way of knowing where the majority stands on this issue. A very small percentage of players actually post to these forums and this issue is usually split mostly even when a thread gets posted. You are lucky if you get twenty peoples opinions in a thread like this and twenty is nowhere near a majority.
Let's add AH to the game and let people vote with their feet. This would be most objective research.
I agree with this statement... and I would bet all the gold that I have that more people would use the new AH than the current Guild Trader system and the main reason behind that is TIME.. people will value their game time more than their gold!!
Hammy!!
ScottK1994 wrote: »Capitalism is an open market.
Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Do people realize this would actually make it more difficult for certain players to get items? sure you will be able to find them easier but say you see something you want but you don't have the gold on you so you take a trip to the bank to get your gold but when you come back to buy the item to realize someone just brought it, that doesn't happen with the method we have now because it takes time for everyone to look through the guild traders.
Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It is possible to buy and sell narrow niche items (like level low-level specific sets). So trading will not be only about mats and high level BoE sets. Gathering a low level set takes too much time and success of operation is determined in advance.
- It is possible to sell more crafted items (popular sets, lower level enchants, etc) and there will be no need for everyone to have a crafter character or to seek crafters out there
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.
Yeah because its a real group effort with Trade Guilds. Join a group of strangers, make sure you contribute your weekly dues and then sell your items to complete strangers.
Iluvrien has figured it out guys. Trade Guilds are on the forefront of keeping dirty casual solo play at bay in this game. We can all go home and rest easy.
and you completely ignore what he said about player interaction... nice job
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.
Yeah because its a real group effort with Trade Guilds. Join a group of strangers, make sure you contribute your weekly dues and then sell your items to complete strangers.
Iluvrien has figured it out guys. Trade Guilds are on the forefront of keeping dirty casual solo play at bay in this game. We can all go home and rest easy.
and you completely ignore what he said about player interaction... nice job
Player interaction is completely unnecessary beyond the initial request/admission to the guild. Player Interaction isnt even a real argument to stand on in regards to the game economy. The design prevents the vast majority from participating even if they were to join an active Trade Guild as theres no guarantee they will net a Guild Trader. Its great that the very small percentage of players that are in the Guilds that can net a Guild Trader are having a grand ole time while doing it. But what of the Guilds that cant muster that? What of the players that cant get into one of these Guilds?
So can you explain to me why weakening the impact that the crafting community has even further is a good thing?
ScottK1994 wrote: »I can't find what I want when I need it either. It's simple. If you can't find what you want when you need it then it's crap.
Do I enjoy crafting? so-so, meh. If I could buy low level sets easier, which an AH would likely result in, I wouldnt bother leveling my craft skills and my limited play time would be spent enjoying what I do in game much more.
Maybe I;m being selfish/lazy but I think the vast majority ( IMO) would enjoy there experience much more with a centralized AH. ( at least altaholics, limited play time types like me)
No auction house. Put on your big boy panties and join a trading guild like the rest of us.
Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It is possible to buy and sell narrow niche items (like level low-level specific sets). So trading will not be only about mats and high level BoE sets. Gathering a low level set takes too much time and success of operation is determined in advance.
- It is possible to sell more crafted items (popular sets, lower level enchants, etc) and there will be no need for everyone to have a crafter character or to seek crafters out there
So can you explain to me why weakening the impact that the crafting community has even further is a good thing?
Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
CapnPhoton wrote: »No auction house. Put on your big boy panties and join a trading guild like the rest of us.
Every trading guild I have tried to join has requirements that I cannot meet. They require minimum log in hours (4 + hours daily or your kicked) , mandatory raid attendance (most 5 per week), monetary tribute, etc. I have a life, business, job, family, so I can't and have no interest in meeting those requirements.
I realize they have reasons for this, but for the rest of us that do more than live inside the game, we don't have options to sell stuff other than in guild or peddling in a busy zone. I like the game a lot as its superior to any other MMO I have played. But the one single thing I don't is the difficulty selling. I won't mention console text chat and housing because they are both coming.
I would be all for an auction house even if the cost to sell was higher. It would probably even out anyway, considering the high guild tribute I have seen.
Big boy panties? Perhaps for those who have nothing else to do but game...
CapnPhoton wrote: »Every trading guild I have tried to join has requirements that I cannot meet. They require minimum log in hours (4 + hours daily or your kicked) , mandatory raid attendance (most 5 per week), monetary tribute, etc. I have a life, business, job, family, so I can't and have no interest in meeting those requirements.
CapnPhoton wrote: »I have a life, business, job, family, so I can't and have no interest in meeting those requirements.
I realize they have reasons for this, but for the rest of us that do more than live inside the game, we don't have options to sell stuff other than in guild or peddling in a busy zone.
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.
Yeah because its a real group effort with Trade Guilds. Join a group of strangers, make sure you contribute your weekly dues and then sell your items to complete strangers.
Iluvrien has figured it out guys. Trade Guilds are on the forefront of keeping dirty casual solo play at bay in this game. We can all go home and rest easy.
and you completely ignore what he said about player interaction... nice job
Player interaction is completely unnecessary beyond the initial request/admission to the guild. Player Interaction isnt even a real argument to stand on in regards to the game economy. The design prevents the vast majority from participating even if they were to join an active Trade Guild as theres no guarantee they will net a Guild Trader. Its great that the very small percentage of players that are in the Guilds that can net a Guild Trader are having a grand ole time while doing it. But what of the Guilds that cant muster that? What of the players that cant get into one of these Guilds?
Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)
- It is possible to buy and sell narrow niche items (like level low-level specific sets). So trading will not be only about mats and high level BoE sets. Gathering a low level set takes too much time and success of operation is determined in advance.
- It is possible to sell more crafted items (popular sets, lower level enchants, etc) and there will be no need for everyone to have a crafter character or to seek crafters out there
So can you explain to me why weakening the impact that the crafting community has even further is a good thing?
Crafter community will have a greater impact, because not everyone has to be crafter. Everyone I talked around have a crafting alt, some like crafting and some do not. Only those who like crafting will need to level up crafting. All others will just buy off AH equipment targeted to particular segment. This would be particularly useful for those who level up the first character, they have to use more skill points to compensate for lack of CP and beginner-level playing skill. So both crafters and non-crafters will benefit from AH.
Filling AH with useful items will not be trivial task, as crafter will have to study different build guides to make items will actually sell.