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Auction House
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Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.Edited by Iluvrien on July 24, 2016 2:54PM0 -
grom1024✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
You see, for guild store I need to converse only once to be done with it, so no big difference with AH. As for selling on chat, I have funnier ways to spend my time, for example to go to dungeon with guild mates or PUG.
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jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »what you call lack of diversity is simply the way the market regulates itself - people sell things that are going to net a profit - that's how trading anywhere works. having an auction house is not going to change that. the current system limits the number of members in a guild and the number of trade slots available to each member and the total number of trade posts - do you think that is an accident? or perhaps something to do with server load - a sound(ish) practical limitation.
when i trade i offer the things that i know will sell and net me the biggest profit - i suspect (though i do not know for certain) that other people do the same. i am not going to waste time selling low level gear for the simple reason that if i got that as a drop there is a good chance the several hundred thousand other people did too. so there is an ah - it will have a limited number of slots per player and (it seems reasonable to suppose) players will try to make the most of those slots by offering the things that are likely to make them the highest return exactly the same as it is now. your argument for ah increasing diversity has so many holes in it you could use it to catch fish.
For lower-level set gear, I have seen only some pieces, and I have never seen a complete set at right level. I would have liked to how some sets work. For low level set items likely reaction will be "I have interesting set piece from chest, lets look for others on AH". For low-level set items situation complicates by that you need all or nothing. Guild stores do not provide non-time expensive way to check if all items are available somewhere. So search is time consuming. I would like to see statistics on complete sets actually used.
And I only could only guess that you have skipped some economics classes if you have visited any at all. Your reasoning is right only if you reason within fixed market size. Market size is defined more by amount of visitors.
Lets say that 0.01% would buy the specific gear piece if they will see it (assuming appropriate price). So if you have 100 visitors per day, you will sell about 3.5 items per year. This is typical guild store w/o trader. So there will be no sales for you. With trader you will get about 1000 visitors per day, so you could sell 35 items per year, or about 4 per month. There is now small chance to sell, but mats will be still better. For auction house there will be much greater amount of visitors per day (lets assume 10000), so about 40 items will sell. It will might make sense to put item on AH if there is less than 20 available and price is good. This is how the diversity is formed. IRL mechanisms are a bit more complex because of greater amount of factors in play, but still these factors have major effect. Walmart could allow great diversity because it designed for large number of visitors and makes a lot from different niche goods.
And if you see holes, you could point to them.
the big hole?
the amount of slots available for sales is unlikely to increase per player - my guess is it would fall for entirely practical reasons (server load). limited sales slots...
The amount of sell slots does not needs to increase. Every AH I know of out there limits it and still supports goods diversiity. It is amount of visitors what needs to increase. I might choose wether to post cp100 Lich helm from dolmen for 700g or stamina potions for 600g. Now lich helm goes to deconstructing. I would have even introduced additional limits like limiting daily amount of buy and sell transactions to suppress bots and gold sellers and load off the server.
the only way the diversity will increase is if the number of sell slots increases - the number of visitors makes no difference.
This is typical fallacy. Increasing shelve sizes on petrol station is only way to increase expenses, because goods will wait forever for the customers. If you have a Wallmart store at each petrol station, the will generate about the same revenue as petrol station kiosks before at cost of much greater expenses. The amount of visitors will be just too low. This is why none is doing it.
To sell niche goods there is a need for high concentration of customers. Thus, Walmart is creating a customer stream by providing huge parking space, providing space for cafe (to increase duration potential customer is exposed to goods), limiting amount of their shops per population, and many other ways. So they are able to sell niche goods and make money off them. Any trade centre works this way. AH would also work such as in other games. Some goods are priced too high, but it is possible to find practically anything sellable. In contrast, only few goods sells in the current system. And it is because it is time consuming and boring to find them.
no..... first off your walmart/petrol station analogy dosn't work and is entirely pointless and tedious to read - please stop.
secondly the diversity is a factor of the items on sale and the number of slots the SELLER has available. if i have 30 slots i am going to fill them with the items that will net me most gold - look i have a motif that will sell for 30k and i have a piece of junk low level set armour that may sell for 300 - i have one slot left. what am i going to put in it? what would any trader with a bit of nous put in it?
it dosn't matter if every player in the game comes by i'm only going to be using my slots to shift high value items.0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭XHandsomexJackX wrote: »I would love to have one. Maybe one for each faction in the main faction cities but they are all connected. I remember when the Grand Exchange came to Runescape. Instead of spending an hour trying to buy items and resources for a quest I could go to the exchange and search what I needed and have it in 2 minutes. Its a good way to get what you need and cut out these guild stores where you have to be a member to hopefully find what you need.
you have to be in the guild to use the guild store - yes, you got that bit right. but anyone can buy from a guild trader.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
You see, for guild store I need to converse only once to be done with it, so no big difference with AH. As for selling on chat, I have funnier ways to spend my time, for example to go to dungeon with guild mates or PUG.
Read my previous post to the one you quoted. The interest comes through the possibilities that one conversation can offer, not in the single conversation itself. In my experience, the AH does not offer the same opportunity.0 -
grom1024✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »no..... first off your walmart/petrol station analogy dosn't work and is entirely pointless and tedious to read - please stop.
secondly the diversity is a factor of the items on sale and the number of slots the SELLER has available. if i have 30 slots i am going to fill them with the items that will net me most gold - look i have a motif that will sell for 30k and i have a piece of junk low level set armour that may sell for 300 - i have one slot left. what am i going to put in it? what would any trader with a bit of nous put in it?
it dosn't matter if every player in the game comes by i'm only going to be using my slots to shift high value items.
It is quite funny, that you reject argument w/o any counter-arguments on basis that tedious to read, and refuse argument that is tedious to browse guild stores. I suspect that you just do not have counter-arguments in that case.
Your assume that you have infinite warehouse of expensive goods to sell from what you could choose from. It might be true for you, but not for the most of players. I doubt that you will be able farm more than 1 motif per 15 minutes from content (at least that is ICD that I heard of). For 8 hour session it would be just 32 items. The only other source would be trying to buy cheap and sell at higher price. AH will set price high anyway, so this source will be limited as well over time. If you would personally specialize only on most expensive items, others like me would not. I would sell any interesting item I'm looting (provided that market price is good enough) + crafted goods on free slots. Motifs are sent to my crafter anyway. Now I'll have to sell only most popular items to make any income. I would have made income of niche items as well. Many players would do the same, as they do not have infinite warehouse as well.
As supporting argument, there is a plenty of recipes on the market because they are popular, and they are put on sale despite their low price. Their niche is quite wide. If your argument of only high margin sales were true, none would have sold them. For AH, there will be more goods that are popular enough to be sold in AH, but which are not popular enough to be sold in guild store.
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Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭A power house PvP guild controlling and obliterating in Cyrodiil reduces the fun for other players and has caused many players to quit PvPing and yet PvP guilds are allowed to go on strong. I think we should restrict PvP kills to a maximum of X per day because... Well, since we are limiting one play style, we might as well limit others as well.
>.>
Your analogy is too far-fetching. But on the topic, there are new and new limits in PvP system in relevant places. Running too fast, gap closures, and some now advocating that zerg runs should be prevented. Amount of kills just not relevant point of limiting for PvP. But limting to 100 items? Most of playing session would not produce that much sellable items anyway. Unless you want to sell every iron ingot separately. But for bots that would be a problem, and some people on this thread threatened to bot the system with notebook running 24x7, some system to prevent such botting must be implemented. I take their threat seriously. You might offer some other mechanism.
Update: For pro traders in the game, they just have to play smart adapting to market situation with such limit, rather than run simple lua script over and over again to spoil game for others.
I am not offering another option because the current system work. If ZOS was competent and made the UI of this game even remotely user friendly it would be perfect. You stop being so lazy or stingy! If you wanna save gold, go around looking for what you need, don't have the time to do that? Well, Rawl'kha is there for you, 5 traders on the same circle and the largest trading guilds in the game.
My scenario is just as ridiculous as yours, what you are proposing limits a viable play style just as limiting kill in PvP would.0 -
grom1024✭✭✭A power house PvP guild controlling and obliterating in Cyrodiil reduces the fun for other players and has caused many players to quit PvPing and yet PvP guilds are allowed to go on strong. I think we should restrict PvP kills to a maximum of X per day because... Well, since we are limiting one play style, we might as well limit others as well.
>.>
Your analogy is too far-fetching. But on the topic, there are new and new limits in PvP system in relevant places. Running too fast, gap closures, and some now advocating that zerg runs should be prevented. Amount of kills just not relevant point of limiting for PvP. But limting to 100 items? Most of playing session would not produce that much sellable items anyway. Unless you want to sell every iron ingot separately. But for bots that would be a problem, and some people on this thread threatened to bot the system with notebook running 24x7, some system to prevent such botting must be implemented. I take their threat seriously. You might offer some other mechanism.
Update: For pro traders in the game, they just have to play smart adapting to market situation with such limit, rather than run simple lua script over and over again to spoil game for others.
I am not offering another option because the current system work. If ZOS was competent and made the UI of this game even remotely user friendly it would be perfect. You stop being so lazy or stingy! If you wanna save gold, go around looking for what you need, don't have the time to do that? Well, Rawl'kha is there for you, 5 traders on the same circle and the largest trading guilds in the game.
My scenario is just as ridiculous as yours, what you are proposing limits a viable play style just as limiting kill in PvP would.
As I understand from forum threads, these PvP guilds maintain their advantage via human efforts and some skill. The potential botters on this thread plan to maintain their advantage via Lua scripts. This is a big difference. The game is not lua-script competition. There are other platforms for that.0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »no..... first off your walmart/petrol station analogy dosn't work and is entirely pointless and tedious to read - please stop.
secondly the diversity is a factor of the items on sale and the number of slots the SELLER has available. if i have 30 slots i am going to fill them with the items that will net me most gold - look i have a motif that will sell for 30k and i have a piece of junk low level set armour that may sell for 300 - i have one slot left. what am i going to put in it? what would any trader with a bit of nous put in it?
it dosn't matter if every player in the game comes by i'm only going to be using my slots to shift high value items.
It is quite funny, that you reject argument w/o any counter-arguments on basis that tedious to read, and refuse argument that is tedious to browse guild stores. I suspect that you just do not have counter-arguments in that case.
Your assume that you have infinite warehouse of expensive goods to sell from what you could choose from. It might be true for you, but not for the most of players. I doubt that you will be able farm more than 1 motif per 15 minutes from content (at least that is ICD that I heard of). For 8 hour session it would be just 32 items. The only other source would be trying to buy cheap and sell at higher price. AH will set price high anyway, so this source will be limited as well over time. If you would personally specialize only on most expensive items, others like me would not. I would sell any interesting item I'm looting (provided that market price is good enough) + crafted goods on free slots. Motifs are sent to my crafter anyway. Now I'll have to sell only most popular items to make any income. I would have made income of niche items as well. Many players would do the same, as they do not have infinite warehouse as well.
As supporting argument, there is a plenty of recipes on the market because they are popular, and they are put on sale despite their low price. Their niche is quite wide. If your argument of only high margin sales were true, none would have sold them. For AH, there will be more goods that are popular enough to be sold in AH, but which are not popular enough to be sold in guild store.
the walmart/kiosk thing does not work because it bears no resemblance to the economy in game.
but it is funny that you are prepared to peddle that rather than talk about what happens in other games with auction houses - a spin off from a movie franchise that ended up with loads of restrictions and bans and another from a game with a movie spin off that has a load of restrictions and bans - no mention of that from you - why is that?
so you would fill up your 30 or whatever slots will low level part set junk in the hope someone may buy it.... really?
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grom1024✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »no..... first off your walmart/petrol station analogy dosn't work and is entirely pointless and tedious to read - please stop.
secondly the diversity is a factor of the items on sale and the number of slots the SELLER has available. if i have 30 slots i am going to fill them with the items that will net me most gold - look i have a motif that will sell for 30k and i have a piece of junk low level set armour that may sell for 300 - i have one slot left. what am i going to put in it? what would any trader with a bit of nous put in it?
it dosn't matter if every player in the game comes by i'm only going to be using my slots to shift high value items.
It is quite funny, that you reject argument w/o any counter-arguments on basis that tedious to read, and refuse argument that is tedious to browse guild stores. I suspect that you just do not have counter-arguments in that case.
Your assume that you have infinite warehouse of expensive goods to sell from what you could choose from. It might be true for you, but not for the most of players. I doubt that you will be able farm more than 1 motif per 15 minutes from content (at least that is ICD that I heard of). For 8 hour session it would be just 32 items. The only other source would be trying to buy cheap and sell at higher price. AH will set price high anyway, so this source will be limited as well over time. If you would personally specialize only on most expensive items, others like me would not. I would sell any interesting item I'm looting (provided that market price is good enough) + crafted goods on free slots. Motifs are sent to my crafter anyway. Now I'll have to sell only most popular items to make any income. I would have made income of niche items as well. Many players would do the same, as they do not have infinite warehouse as well.
As supporting argument, there is a plenty of recipes on the market because they are popular, and they are put on sale despite their low price. Their niche is quite wide. If your argument of only high margin sales were true, none would have sold them. For AH, there will be more goods that are popular enough to be sold in AH, but which are not popular enough to be sold in guild store.
the walmart/kiosk thing does not work because it bears no resemblance to the economy in game.
but it is funny that you are prepared to peddle that rather than talk about what happens in other games with auction houses - a spin off from a movie franchise that ended up with loads of restrictions and bans and another from a game with a movie spin off that has a load of restrictions and bans - no mention of that from you - why is that?
so you would fill up your 30 or whatever slots will low level part set junk in the hope someone may buy it.... really?
Analogy is analogy. The pure math factors that distinguish walmarts/kiosk play even greater role in the games, since there are less influencing factors and real world restrictions.
Note, I did not play these movie spin-off games, so I could not discuss the issue with them. They might had economy peculiarities that caused a problem, like P2W model or bad real-money+AH interaction. And I did not played WoW, so I had just to believe your word that their economy was dis-balanced with AH and that there are not enough restrictions to suppress notorious market players. In DnD-derived games I played, AH worked just fine. At least there were no problem that affected me in noticeable way. And I do not stay that AH should be unrestricted, useful restriction would only help it to function. IRL unrestricted markets are also work bad, that is why there is so many regulations for stock exchanges. If there are risks associated with AH, they need to be discussed and addressed. Bans are for notorious market players is also a possible regulation mechanism, but the policy would be better communicated in advance.
And if I have nothing better to put into slot, why not junk that might be need by someone. At least I'll get some income off it.Edited by grom1024 on July 24, 2016 6:36PM0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Many have answer this question with detail reasons why millions of time and the answer still the same, no AH. I do not feel like going over the detail reasons again and just gave the final answer for it instead.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭A power house PvP guild controlling and obliterating in Cyrodiil reduces the fun for other players and has caused many players to quit PvPing and yet PvP guilds are allowed to go on strong. I think we should restrict PvP kills to a maximum of X per day because... Well, since we are limiting one play style, we might as well limit others as well.
>.>
Your analogy is too far-fetching. But on the topic, there are new and new limits in PvP system in relevant places. Running too fast, gap closures, and some now advocating that zerg runs should be prevented. Amount of kills just not relevant point of limiting for PvP. But limting to 100 items? Most of playing session would not produce that much sellable items anyway. Unless you want to sell every iron ingot separately. But for bots that would be a problem, and some people on this thread threatened to bot the system with notebook running 24x7, some system to prevent such botting must be implemented. I take their threat seriously. You might offer some other mechanism.
Update: For pro traders in the game, they just have to play smart adapting to market situation with such limit, rather than run simple lua script over and over again to spoil game for others.
I am not offering another option because the current system work. If ZOS was competent and made the UI of this game even remotely user friendly it would be perfect. You stop being so lazy or stingy! If you wanna save gold, go around looking for what you need, don't have the time to do that? Well, Rawl'kha is there for you, 5 traders on the same circle and the largest trading guilds in the game.
My scenario is just as ridiculous as yours, what you are proposing limits a viable play style just as limiting kill in PvP would.
As I understand from forum threads, these PvP guilds maintain their advantage via human efforts and some skill. The potential botters on this thread plan to maintain their advantage via Lua scripts. This is a big difference. The game is not lua-script competition. There are other platforms for that.
Never needed bots to keep quite a strong control over the gem market in WoW, wouldn't need bots to do just the same in this game if an AH was ever implemented. So because people can use cheats to benefit a play style, we should bomb said play style? Cause I point you once again to PvP where those using Cheat Engine rule supreme, not to mention those 'exploiting' the bugs with many gap closers. And next I point you to the PvE leaderboard, where once more impossibly high scores were achieved by those using Cheat Engine, yet their scores remain.Edited by Grao on July 24, 2016 6:57PM0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »no..... first off your walmart/petrol station analogy dosn't work and is entirely pointless and tedious to read - please stop.
secondly the diversity is a factor of the items on sale and the number of slots the SELLER has available. if i have 30 slots i am going to fill them with the items that will net me most gold - look i have a motif that will sell for 30k and i have a piece of junk low level set armour that may sell for 300 - i have one slot left. what am i going to put in it? what would any trader with a bit of nous put in it?
it dosn't matter if every player in the game comes by i'm only going to be using my slots to shift high value items.
It is quite funny, that you reject argument w/o any counter-arguments on basis that tedious to read, and refuse argument that is tedious to browse guild stores. I suspect that you just do not have counter-arguments in that case.
Your assume that you have infinite warehouse of expensive goods to sell from what you could choose from. It might be true for you, but not for the most of players. I doubt that you will be able farm more than 1 motif per 15 minutes from content (at least that is ICD that I heard of). For 8 hour session it would be just 32 items. The only other source would be trying to buy cheap and sell at higher price. AH will set price high anyway, so this source will be limited as well over time. If you would personally specialize only on most expensive items, others like me would not. I would sell any interesting item I'm looting (provided that market price is good enough) + crafted goods on free slots. Motifs are sent to my crafter anyway. Now I'll have to sell only most popular items to make any income. I would have made income of niche items as well. Many players would do the same, as they do not have infinite warehouse as well.
As supporting argument, there is a plenty of recipes on the market because they are popular, and they are put on sale despite their low price. Their niche is quite wide. If your argument of only high margin sales were true, none would have sold them. For AH, there will be more goods that are popular enough to be sold in AH, but which are not popular enough to be sold in guild store.
the walmart/kiosk thing does not work because it bears no resemblance to the economy in game.
but it is funny that you are prepared to peddle that rather than talk about what happens in other games with auction houses - a spin off from a movie franchise that ended up with loads of restrictions and bans and another from a game with a movie spin off that has a load of restrictions and bans - no mention of that from you - why is that?
so you would fill up your 30 or whatever slots will low level part set junk in the hope someone may buy it.... really?
Analogy is analogy. The pure math factors that distinguish walmarts/kiosk play even greater role in the games, since there are less influencing factors and real world restrictions.
the analogy does not work because you ignore one key factor in it - world chat sales
[/quote]
Note, I did not play these movie spin-off games, so I could not discuss the issue with them. They might had economy peculiarities that caused a problem, like P2W model or bad real-money+AH interaction. And I did not played WoW, so I had just to believe your word that their economy was dis-balanced with AH and that there are not enough restrictions to suppress notorious market players. In DnD-derived games I played, AH worked just fine. At least there were no problem that affected me in noticeable way.[/quote]
no problem for you so everything is fine eh? [/quote]
And I do not stay that AH should be unrestricted, useful restriction would only help it to function. IRL unrestricted markets are also work bad, that is why there is so many regulations for stock exchanges. If there are risks associated with AH, they need to be discussed and addressed. Bans are for notorious market players is also a possible regulation mechanism, but the policy would be better communicated in advance.[/quote]
i think the least regulation the better, as it is now. that way the gms and devs can get on with the current crop of problems.
[/quote]
And if I have nothing better to put into slot, why not junk that might be need by someone. At least I'll get some income off it.[/quote]
maybe, maybe not
wow i made a mess of that didn't i? lolEdited by jedtb16_ESO on July 24, 2016 6:59PM0 -
Molag_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It would be awesome to have an auction house, then all the elitist trading guilds won't dominate the market and control the prices and of course everything will be much easier to find.--ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
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The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
Be your true, authentic self.1 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.
Yeah because its a real group effort with Trade Guilds. Join a group of strangers, make sure you contribute your weekly dues and then sell your items to complete strangers.
Iluvrien has figured it out guys. Trade Guilds are on the forefront of keeping dirty casual solo play at bay in this game. We can all go home and rest easy.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »If it is thought that crafting is a good way to make gold, think again. It has never been worth trying to sell crafted gear. Selling crafted enchantments yes, actual gear, no. One has to look for those posting in chat they want someone to craft certain gear for them to make that work.
This is not the way to make gold precisely because of the current system that heavily restricts market diversity. I've made a lot of gold in other game from crafting. Even low level crafted items sold, because potential buyers were able to find them with reasonable efforts.
Low-level crafted items sold here too until ZOS devalued crafted items by removing the level bonus, and this was in the days both before and after the Guild Traders existed. To a degree, they still do... but not through the traders. They sell through the Guilds themselves.
At least one of my Guilds (trading) contains people putting crafting requests onto chat 5-6 times an hour... and I only get to play during the off-hours for EU PC. I would imagine it is considerably busier during the on-hours.
The AH encourages solo play. One player on their own is able to buy, list and sell whatever they like with no contact with another human being required. The current system in ESO places incentives on a mix of Guild and Kiosk contact. It supports social contact for niche items and provides the Traders as a decent way of getting hold of basic/common ones.
I really like it. The UI bites, and text search needs to come to every platform, but the concept itself is one I enjoy greatly... and actually I do most of my business outside of the Kiosks through Guild or Zone chat. You know what is even better than a one-off sale through an AH? Making a good enough impression on a new crafting client that they come to you for every set they need. I've probably had dozens of those on my books over the last couple of years. Some even turned into lasting group-mates. All of that came about through a degree of contact required by this system that, I think, would be missing with a global AH.
That is why I disagree with the idea, and will continue to do so.
Did you just seriously claim an AH promotes solo play? LMAO. Now youre seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
How many people does it require for you to list and sell an item on the AH? How many do you have to personally converse with to buy one?
Edit: But just to be nice, I will say rather that an AH fails to promote player interaction in trading in the same way that I think the Guild/Guild Trader system in ESO does, i.e. I won't slap those other MMOs with a negative, I will credit ESO with a positive.
Yeah because its a real group effort with Trade Guilds. Join a group of strangers, make sure you contribute your weekly dues and then sell your items to complete strangers.
Iluvrien has figured it out guys. Trade Guilds are on the forefront of keeping dirty casual solo play at bay in this game. We can all go home and rest easy.
and you completely ignore what he said about player interaction... nice job0 -
Hammy01✭✭✭✭✭As for the majority base there is no way of knowing where the majority stands on this issue. A very small percentage of players actually post to these forums and this issue is usually split mostly even when a thread gets posted. You are lucky if you get twenty peoples opinions in a thread like this and twenty is nowhere near a majority.
Let's add AH to the game and let people vote with their feet. This would be most objective research.
I agree with this statement... and I would bet all the gold that I have that more people would use the new AH than the current Guild Trader system and the main reason behind that is TIME.. people will value their game time more than their gold!!
Hammy!!0 -
Hammy01✭✭✭✭✭As for the majority base there is no way of knowing where the majority stands on this issue. A very small percentage of players actually post to these forums and this issue is usually split mostly even when a thread gets posted. You are lucky if you get twenty peoples opinions in a thread like this and twenty is nowhere near a majority.
Let's add AH to the game and let people vote with their feet. This would be most objective research.
I don't walk into MacDonalds and rally the customers to vote that they serve shrimp. If you don't like what ZOS servers on it's platter...then, well, WoW has an auction house.
That is a really bad analogy....
McDonalds often has surveys and changes up their menus based on what the customers ask for. Incase you don't remember they did just recently started offering all day breakfast (because people have been asking for it for so long).
Hammy!!0 -
CapnPhoton✭✭✭✭✭If people think that this idea would make guild stores obsolete, perhaps it could simply cost more to use a guild house as opposed to selling in a guild store.Xbox One NA Aldmeri Dominion0 -
AntMan100673✭✭✭As for the majority base there is no way of knowing where the majority stands on this issue. A very small percentage of players actually post to these forums and this issue is usually split mostly even when a thread gets posted. You are lucky if you get twenty peoples opinions in a thread like this and twenty is nowhere near a majority.
Let's add AH to the game and let people vote with their feet. This would be most objective research.
I agree with this statement... and I would bet all the gold that I have that more people would use the new AH than the current Guild Trader system and the main reason behind that is TIME.. people will value their game time more than their gold!!
Hammy!!
Of course more people would use AH, even with different selling fees I don't see that both could exist side by side, that wouldn't prove AH is better or more popular though. It would be a lot easier for buyers to find stuff on AH and sellers would get almost instant sales if they undercut the market. The only reason someone would buy from a guild trader if they both existed is if they could get a big enough bargain to make it worth their while, but for sellers they wouldn't get enough of a premium over just listing on the AH so they wouldn't use the guild traders either. It wouldn't be a choice between the two it would be a necessity.
Particularly on console with no add ons the UI needs improving with more specific searching, I also wouldn't mind an NPC khajiit in each city who would give you a combined listing of all the traders in that city, you could buy direct for a small fee or then go search the traders for the right one listing the item you're after.
But no to an AH, it would be a short term win for lower level players but once at end game and you start searching for your arcane willpower jewellery or whatever you'll find the cost of these rarer items has gone through the roof and as you're not getting as much for stuff you can sell you'll basically never be able to get some of the best gear without relying on rng and getting it for yourself which you can do now. Personally I don't have that much time to play so don't want to be spending it hoping for good rng drops farming the same content every time I play. I'm not mega rich, I've got about 500k, but I make a decent amount from the guild traders flipping items using about half an hour of my time each week. I use the gold I make to buy items I want so I don't have to rely on rng and I can just play the game.EU - EP - Dunmer - Dragonknight - Magicka DPS - CP160
GT: AntMan1006730 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭ScottK1994 wrote: »Capitalism is an open market.
LOL.
Excuse me while I go work on my mom-n-pop auto manufacturing venture.
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Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pro-Guild Traders- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pro-Guild Traders- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Nope, that is pretty much it. Now to address the negatives, sellers will only list items in the AH that have demand for as there is always a cost to listing things in the AH, it is typical gold sink for MMOs. Thus the market will remain catering to end game players as this game caters to end game players... Why would you sell items from Cp1 - CP160 if players only ever go through those 'levels' once? The demand would simply be too small.
As for it being hard to enter the market... It really isn't that hard. Any of the large guilds has a waiting list and you can enter it... Staying in one of the large guilds is hard, but if you are not able or willing to dedicate part of your time to trading, then you really don't need a trading guild, do you? Go for a more casual one with sellers in less popular areas, your stuff will still sell, even if it takes a little longer. That or simply sell it in chat, if it is an item people actually use, it will sell fast. Well, that if your price is good.
And the last item... It is being addressed in a month. I pretty sure it won't work perfectly because when was any new feature released for consoles actually working? But hey, it will work eventually and an AH released on Consoles would have just as many bugs.1 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Do people realize this would actually make it more difficult for certain players to get items? sure you will be able to find them easier but say you see something you want but you don't have the gold on you so you take a trip to the bank to get your gold but when you come back to buy the item to realize someone just brought it, that doesn't happen with the method we have now because it takes time for everyone to look through the guild traders.0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Do people realize this would actually make it more difficult for certain players to get items? sure you will be able to find them easier but say you see something you want but you don't have the gold on you so you take a trip to the bank to get your gold but when you come back to buy the item to realize someone just brought it, that doesn't happen with the method we have now because it takes time for everyone to look through the guild traders.
So a reason to keep the guild traders is because its inefficient for buyers? Inefficient to the point that you, being poorly prepared to purchase an item can still purchase the item before other buyers?
C'mon that's a terrible line of reasoning. If anything that's a reason to get an a more efficient player market because buyers are missing out on those deals due to a lack of readily available information.2 -
grom1024✭✭✭Pro-Guild Traders
- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)- It is possible to buy and sell narrow niche items (like level low-level specific sets). So trading will not be only about mats and high level BoE sets. Gathering a low level set takes too much time and success of operation is determined in advance.
- It is possible to sell more crafted items (popular sets, lower level enchants, etc) and there will be no need for everyone to have a crafter character or to seek crafters out there
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Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pro-Guild Traders- It's not the typical MMO approach.
- It feels more immersive to have a store front.
- The approach is working for end game sellers quite well
- It allows buyers to travel around looking for a bargain
- Auction Houses can be gamed too easily (I imagine this is especially true on PC where third party add-ons are going to be an issue).
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)- It's too hard to find the items you want (unless they're the high demand items)
- The market only caters to end game players
- It's hard to get into the market, having to join a good trade guild
- Lack of chat on consoles is a big issue when it comes to being part of the market
Anything I've missed?
Pro-AH (or any other alternative)- It is possible to buy and sell narrow niche items (like level low-level specific sets). So trading will not be only about mats and high level BoE sets. Gathering a low level set takes too much time and success of operation is determined in advance.
- It is possible to sell more crafted items (popular sets, lower level enchants, etc) and there will be no need for everyone to have a crafter character or to seek crafters out there
So can you explain to me why weakening the impact that the crafting community has even further is a good thing?Edited by Iluvrien on July 25, 2016 3:43PM0
This discussion has been closed.