Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

Jesh · July 2016

There needs to be a much greater benefit to choosing Imperial - not too pay to win, but a clear advantage to choosing that race.
The Bosmers need a significant boost to make them more attractive as a stamina race. (Deal more damage with poisons/disease at the same time as resist? Deal more damage with bows or from stealth?)

TheHsN · July 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

YES IT IS

TheHsN · July 2016

TheHsN wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

YES IT IS

U wanna be play like magicka class then play with magicka class... it is enough that stamina users took and still ask all about for magicka skill and passives.... soon they will return stamina to BLUE color too...

Lumenn · July 2016

Jesh wrote: »

There needs to be a much greater benefit to choosing Imperial - not too pay to win, but a clear advantage to choosing that race.
The Bosmers need a significant boost to make them more attractive as a stamina race. (Deal more damage with poisons/disease at the same time as resist? Deal more damage with bows or from stealth?)

I wouldn't mind the bosmer actually getting a magicka regen. Dark elves have max stamina and magicka boosts, let the bosmer have the regen. Definitely not an equal 21% though, maybe 9% or 10%. That way they aren't locked into a stamina race, and they won't be mediocre.

Enodoc · July 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

So basically you want the Wood Elf Archery Expertise to be a bit more useful? Are there any other passives that affect damage, though?

TheHsN wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

YES IT IS

U wanna be play like magicka class then play with magicka class... it is enough that stamina users took and still ask all about for magicka skill and passives.... soon they will return stamina to BLUE color too...

There never should have been "Stamina abilities" in the first place.

ToRelax · July 2016

I just want the resistance passives to be noticeable again...

actosh · July 2016

At zos u need to do something about red diamond.

Toc de Malsvi · July 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

There never should have been "Stamina abilities" in the first place.

Yup, would have been way easier and made more sense to have stamina locked to sprint/block/dodgeroll and have all skills scale off magicka then splitting their bases based on either weapon damage or spell damage.

Enodoc · July 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

There never should have been "Stamina abilities" in the first place.

Yup, would have been way easier and made more sense to have stamina locked to sprint/block/dodgeroll and have all skills scale off magicka then splitting their bases based on either weapon damage or spell damage.

Indeed. Sprinting, blocking, heavy attacks, bashing, rolling, sneaking and CC-breaking (ie, the general combat things that everyone can do) should use Stamina, and everything that requires pressing a button should use Magicka.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

There never should have been "Stamina abilities" in the first place.

Yup, would have been way easier and made more sense to have stamina locked to sprint/block/dodgeroll and have all skills scale off magicka then splitting their bases based on either weapon damage or spell damage.

Indeed. Sprinting, blocking, heavy attacks, bashing, rolling, sneaking and CC-breaking (ie, the general combat things that everyone can do) should use Stamina, and everything that requires pressing a button should use Magicka.

It started very close to that, then everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

Vudokan · July 2016

As a Breton healer, I'm not happy with the changes to passives at all.

1] I am a PvPer, and the 1% AP bonus is going to do nothing for me but earn me hate and ridicule from other players. I don't want it. I prefer to EARN my AP like everyone else.

2] I am a healer, and now feel forced to convert to an Argonian for the healing bonus. I will never, ever play a lizard. I am left considering what to do, or whether to continue playing as a healer at all.

I don't know or care about the other changes, but these ones, I truly hate.

Ishammael · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I do believe the Dunmer racial is still not working correctly. Other than that, love the changes.

Can confirm that it isn't working

1 out of 3 pts works (2%)
2 out of 3 pts DOES NOT work
3 out of 3 pts DOES NOT work

Enodoc · July 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

There never should have been "Stamina abilities" in the first place.

Yup, would have been way easier and made more sense to have stamina locked to sprint/block/dodgeroll and have all skills scale off magicka then splitting their bases based on either weapon damage or spell damage.

Indeed. Sprinting, blocking, heavy attacks, bashing, rolling, sneaking and CC-breaking (ie, the general combat things that everyone can do) should use Stamina, and everything that requires pressing a button should use Magicka.

It started very close to that, then everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

I remember that show. Never realised that phrase had become a meme though

Shadesofkin · July 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

There never should have been "Stamina abilities" in the first place.

Yup, would have been way easier and made more sense to have stamina locked to sprint/block/dodgeroll and have all skills scale off magicka then splitting their bases based on either weapon damage or spell damage.

Indeed. Sprinting, blocking, heavy attacks, bashing, rolling, sneaking and CC-breaking (ie, the general combat things that everyone can do) should use Stamina, and everything that requires pressing a button should use Magicka.

It started very close to that, then everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

I remember that show. Never realised that phrase had become a meme though

Heh, I use it as often as possible.

Vythri · July 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

So basically you want the Wood Elf Archery Expertise to be a bit more useful? Are there any other passives that affect damage, though?

Orcs:

Swift Warrior - Increases your damage with melee weapon attacks by 2/3/4%

Redguard:

Adrenaline Rush - Your melee attacks restore 1/2/3% of your Max Stamina

Imperial:

Red Diamond - Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% or your Max Health

Dunmer:

Destructive Ancestry - Increases your Flame Damage by 3/5/7% (increasing Flame Staff damage)

Altmer

Elemental Talent - Increases your Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage by 2/3/4% (increasing all Destruction Staff damage)

5/10 races have buffs to either melee damage/utility, or staff damage.

0/10 have buffs to bow damage/utility.

Now would've been a perfect time to throw a bone to all of the bow users out there that feel neglected by ZOS. Instead Bosmer (the race that should be archery masters) got a fall damage passive. Yay....

Why even use my Bosmer at all now? I'll just roll a Khajiit.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

I love khajit changes, was thinking to delete my Khajit but now will start playing..

They were worst before..

code65536 · July 2016

Breton:

Change the perk for "Opportunist" to 1% gold gain. It makes more sense on the Bretons--well-known to be merchants, and fits better with the word "opportunist".
The magicka cost reduction passive is rather lackluster, when compared to the Altmer regeneration passive. Perhaps this could be supplemented with magic damage? Half of your magicka classes do a form of damage that no race has a buff for.

Imperial:

Rename "Diplomat" to "Defender of Cyrodiil" or "Homeland Defender" and change the perk to 1% AP gain. This name would fit nicely with their sword-and-shield bonus, and it makes sense that they have a natural advantage in their own home province. Even if you keep the "Diplomat" name, "Diplomat" evokes the sense of prestige, and AP is a measure of faction prestige.

Khajiit:

6% max stam on the race that is already the best for PvE DPS is not balanced. If the goal is to buff their viability in PvP, there surely must be some way to buff them without unbalancing the PvE side.
Swap their thieving passive with Bosmer. The Khajiit are known to be nimble, and we've all heard about cats landing on all fours, so fall damage makes more sense for them. And Bosmer as thieves is very lore-friendly, too.

Bosmer:

Swap their fall-damage passive with the Khajiit's thieving one. See above for reasoning.

Enodoc · July 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

So basically you want the Wood Elf Archery Expertise to be a bit more useful? Are there any other passives that affect damage, though?

Orcs:
Swift Warrior - Increases your damage with melee weapon attacks by 2/3/4%

Redguard:
Adrenaline Rush - Your melee attacks restore 1/2/3% of your Max Stamina

Imperial:
Red Diamond - Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% or your Max Health

Dunmer:
Destructive Ancestry - Increases your Flame Damage by 3/5/7% (increasing Flame Staff damage)

Altmer
Elemental Talent - Increases your Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage by 2/3/4% (increasing all Destruction Staff damage)

5/10 races have buffs to either melee damage/utility, or staff damage.
0/10 have buffs to bow damage/utility.

Awesome. I knew they were somewhere, didn't release there were quite so many! What you're after would be a logical thing to add to Yffre's Endurance; either increase ranged damage by 2/3/4%, or ranged attacks restore 1/2/3% of your Max Stamina. If it was the latter, they would probably need to reduce Stamina Regeneration in combat down from 7/14/21% to 6/12/18%.

I agree with the suggestions above that Bretons should have the 1% gold increase and the Imperials should have the 1% AP increase, as that matches the lore better.

Silver_Strider · July 2016

Altmer:
Buff Elemental Talent to 3/4/5%
Altmer get a slight buff to maintain their magic superiority.

Argonian
Quick To Mend: 2/4/6% Max magic, increase Healing Done by 2/4/6%
Argonian Resist: 2/4/6% Max Health , Poison/Disease Resistance
Child of the Hist: 2/4/6% Max Stamina, Increase Poison/Disease Damage by 2/4/6%
Argonians become the hybrid race that fits their lore while not being overly powerful in any 1 role, except maybe as healers.

Breton:
Change Magicka Mastery to magic version of Adrenaline Rush
Bretons become masters of magic sustain.

Bosmer
Y'ffre's Blessing: Increase Stamina Regen by 5/10/15%, Increase Damage with Bow and Poison abilities by 2/3/4%
Resist Affliction: Resist Poison/Disease, Increase Max Stamina by 2/4/6%
Bosmer get a slight nerf to their regen to get a buff to Bow+Poison as well as an increase to their max stamina to make them more useful as Stamina DPS.

Dunmer:
Leave as is

Imperial:
Leave as is

Khajiit:
Nimble: 2/4/6% Max Health, Increase Stamina Regen by 3/6/9%
Khajiit get some extra health and still maintain their status as best PvE Stamina DPS without becoming the outright best at it as is currently the issue.

Nord:
Leave as is

Orc:
Brawny: Increase Max Health+Stamina by 3/5/7%
Orcs get a relatively small buff to make them more comparable to Nords. Nords have more Health and Mitigation, Orcs have more Stamina and Damage.

Redguard:
Leave as is

Dunmer, Imperial, Nords and Reguards are all fine now and I see little reason to change any of them.
Just my thoughts.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Breton:
Change the perk for "Opportunist" to 1% gold gain. It makes more sense on the Bretons--well-known to be merchants, and fits better with the word "opportunist".

The magicka cost reduction passive is rather lackluster, when compared to the Altmer regeneration passive. Perhaps this could be supplemented with magic damage? Half of your magicka classes do a form of damage that no race has a buff for.

Imperial:
Rename "Diplomat" to "Defender of Cyrodiil" or "Homeland Defender" and change the perk to 1% AP gain. This name would fit nicely with their sword-and-shield bonus, and it makes sense that they have a natural advantage in their own home province. Even if you keep the "Diplomat" name, "Diplomat" evokes the sense of prestige, and AP is a measure of faction prestige.

Khajiit:
6% max stam on the race that is already the best for PvE DPS is not balanced. If the goal is to buff their viability in PvP, there surely must be some way to buff them without unbalancing the PvE side.

Swap their thieving passive with Bosmer. The Khajiit are known to be nimble, and we've all heard about cats landing on all fours, so fall damage makes more sense for them. And Bosmer as thieves is very lore-friendly, too.

Bosmer:
Swap their fall-damage passive with the Khajiit's thieving one. See above for reasoning.

I am playing with 4 breton characters, 1 % gold is worst than 1% AP.

Gold does not count a lot in ESO like other MMORPG. After filling up with End game PVE contents I shifted to PVP.

I have now around 2M AP but not know what do with them..I have almost all desired monster helm and PVP sets are obtainable through rewards..

Magicka Cost reduction is useful as Healer or sorcerer..

Better to boost this buff or replace spell resistance with Damage buff..

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Altmer:
Buff Elemental Talent to 3/4/5%
Altmer get a slight buff to maintain their magic superiority.

Argonian
Quick To Mend: 2/4/6% Max magic, increase Healing Done by 2/4/6%
Argonian Resist: 2/4/6% Max Health , Poison/Disease Resistance
Child of the Hist: 2/4/6% Max Stamina, Increase Poison/Disease Damage by 2/4/6%
Argonians become the hybrid race that fits their lore while not being overly powerful in any 1 role, except maybe as healers.

Breton:
Change Magicka Mastery to magic version of Adrenaline Rush
Bretons become masters of magic sustain.

Bosmer
Y'ffre's Blessing: Increase Stamina Regen by 5/10/15%, Increase Damage with Bow and Poison abilities by 2/3/4%
Resist Affliction: Resist Poison/Disease, Increase Max Stamina by 2/4/6%
Bosmer get a slight nerf to their regen to get a buff to Bow+Poison as well as an increase to their max stamina to make them more useful as Stamina DPS.

Dunmer:
Leave as is

Imperial:
Leave as is

Khajiit:
Nimble: 2/4/6% Max Health, Increase Stamina Regen by 3/6/9%
Khajiit get some extra health and still maintain their status as best PvE Stamina DPS without becoming the outright best at it as is currently the issue.

Nord:
Leave as is

Orc:
Brawny: Increase Max Health+Stamina by 3/5/7%
Orcs get a relatively small buff to make them more comparable to Nords. Nords have more Health and Mitigation, Orcs have more Stamina and Damage.

Redguard:
Leave as is

Dunmer, Imperial, Nords and Reguards are all fine now and I see little reason to change any of them.
Just my thoughts.

Everyone want to maintain Redguard as best PVP and tying to get rid of new khajit change.

If Khajit changes are rollback than Redguard should lose some part of their too much recovery buff..they are very stamina sustain..

Bosmer should lose extra stamina buff or resistance, argonians should lose potion buff or extra health..

Imperial should lose some health buff, 12% increase a way too much tank..

Bretons are a way back than altmers and they definitely need damage buff or further cost reduction buff. We do not care about spell resistance..replace it with more damage or better buff..

Vythri · July 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Awesome. I knew they were somewhere, didn't release there were quite so many! What you're after would be a logical thing to add to Yffre's Endurance; either increase ranged damage by 2/3/4%, or ranged attacks restore 1/2/3% of your Max Stamina. If it was the latter, they would probably need to reduce Stamina Regeneration in combat down from 7/14/21% to 6/12/18%.

I agree with the suggestions above that Bretons should have the 1% gold increase and the Imperials should have the 1% AP increase, as that matches the lore better.

I think it would be reasonable to reduce the stam regen slightly if you give a buff to ranged physical damage/regen in some way.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno You guys are really screwing khajit by reversing Nimble change,

I am out of this race, frustrated and doubting your ability to do and execute balance changes.

Some QQ made you worried and you rolled back khajit changes even before release..so on what parameters did you add this buff initially? Was it baseless?

You guys need better descion making over changes..hire some good team or this beautiful game will be screwed..

I wish you guys answer my tags/ threads..I will still create hundred more till the time answer comes..

Vythri · July 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Bosmer
Y'ffre's Blessing: Increase Stamina Regen by 5/10/15%, Increase Damage with Bow and Poison abilities by 2/3/4%
Resist Affliction: Resist Poison/Disease, Increase Max Stamina by 2/4/6%
Bosmer get a slight nerf to their regen to get a buff to Bow+Poison as well as an increase to their max stamina to make them more useful as Stamina DPS.

I'd love this change. That would actually make Bosmer unique and worth playing as a Bow user.

Arciris · July 2016

So, a quick recap for this race passives changes, considering best performance in terms of DPS (min/max)
Magika:
MagSorc DPS: still pigeonholed to Altmer and maybe Dunmer depending on build (2 out of 10 races)
MagDK DPS: still pigeonholed to Dunmer (1 out of 10 races)
MagNB DPS still pigeonholed to Altmer and maybe Dunmer depending on the build (2 out of 10 races)
MagTemplar: still pigeonholed to Dunmer (more deeps) or Altmer (2 ot of 10 races)
Conclusion: for Magika DPS, only 2 out 10 races are usable. Not that anyone cares because, at this point, Stamina DPS is the best anyway.
Stamina:
Anything Khajiit or Redguard (2 out of 10 races, actually 1 for PvE,, the other 1 for PvP)

Of course, in PvP, other factors must be taken in account like resource management and how useful a passive can be.
So, for PvP, magika builds have 1 more option because of resource management: Breton. (makes 3 out of 10 races to choose from)
In PvP, reverting the changes to Khajiit leaves only one option: Redguard by a huge margin (most of Khajiit racials are useless or situational in PvP). So, for stamina we need at least 1 more race to choose from.

So, now that the changes to Khajiit are not going through, it's time to nerf Redguards to be on par with other races, since it seems it's all the QQers seem to like (nerfs) and QQers seem to be the only ones Zeni listens to.

Also, reverting the changes to Argonians makes them a Meh race again: no point to pick them as DPS, no point to pick them as tanks (not that it was ever a wise choice anyway), no point to pick them as healers. Again, thank you QQers, I was looking forward to finally make something great with my Argonian, now he will never be best at anything.

Teridaxus · July 2016

Imperial:
How about changed the max stam to either max stam or magicka depending which value is higher?
Also red diamond should be the health vesion of adrenaline rush and changing the value of these two into something in between. One is op, the other one is barely noticeable.

Nord:
Maybe a passive which gives weapon damage, max stam and health regen depending how much health misses?

Orc:
A passive which gives health and health regen depending how much armour you have?
Like for 1000 spell and physical res, you get 250 health?

Toraf · July 2016

I just wanted to play a nord frost mage...

#Shalidor/Gauldur/Ahzidal/DragonPriest/Miraak and moar ! we're not only stupid drunk warrior !

X% moar stat on food it's a good idea (so you can play a stam or mag nord if you want or tank !)

- Two-handed Weapon Expertise: don't touch it.
- Robust: change it to idk "Nord constitution" increase X% of food stat and X% health regen.
- Frost Resist: nerf it or remove it to compensate the food buff, and add increase X% of frost damage. (#dreams ! but optional, but dreams ! brah !) (remove or nerf only the health % don't touch the frost resist)
- Rugged: change it to increase Xnumber of physical and magical resist or just physical.

That's what I really want to see for nords. (for other races do the same things [not the exact same buff ofc !] 'cause everyone should be allowed to play the race they want in any role.)

And yes I only play nord ! before you asking.

LorDrek · July 2016

Toraf wrote: »

I just wanted to play a nord frost mage...

#Shalidor/Gauldur/Ahzidal/DragonPriest/Miraak and moar ! we're not only stupid drunk warrior !

X% moar stat on food it's a good idea (so you can play a stam or mag nord if you want or tank !)

- Two-handed Weapon Expertise: don't touch it.
- Robust: change it to idk "Nord constitution" increase X% of food stat and X% health regen.
- Frost Resist: nerf it or remove it to compensate the food buff, and add increase X% of frost damage. (#dreams ! but optional, but dreams ! brah !) (remove or nerf only the health % don't touch the frost resist)
- Rugged: change it to increase Xnumber of physical and magical resist or just physical.

That's what I really want to see for nords. (for other races do the same things [not the exact same buff ofc !] 'cause everyone should be allowed to play the race they want in any role.)

And yes I only play nord ! before you asking.

Good idea, i love Nords.

GCypher87 · July 2016

AP gain and Gold gain should be switched between imperial and breton. Imperials are from Cyrodil, hosting the battle. King Emeric is a Breton and I'm pretty sure was some kind of merchant.

Vudokan · July 2016

GCypher87 wrote: »

AP gain and Gold gain should be switched between imperial and breton. Imperials are from Cyrodil, hosting the battle. King Emeric is a Breton and I'm pretty sure was some kind of merchant.

I think gold gain is even less appealing than AP gain. I think both 'perks' are terrible. I would prefer something that, while not being overpowered, is actually genuinely useful. For example, the fall damage and cutpurse passives. Those are interesting, useful but not game-breaking. I don't know enough about the lore to make a better suggestion, maybe others can chime in.