Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

dodgehopper_ESO

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I've been stuck as a Breton since launch and after the removal of soft caps I deeply regret it - but I spent too much time maxing everything out and getting PVP ranks to ever reroll.

Obviously I play a stamina nightblade because it's the LEAST optimal build (lol) for my race but I will definitely be switching to either Imperial or Wood Elf for obvious reasons.

Bretons and Nords are by far the worst races to chose now. Very disappointing.

Argonian buffs are nice - maybe a bit too strong as templar argonian would hands down be the best healer now in terms of raw output but at least other races still have better resource management.

Khajit buffs are total overkill. This will make it the best pvp race in the game if it goes live - at least for all stamina builds.

ArtOfShred wrote: »

My collected thoughts on racials:



Imperial)
- Shield Affinity: Come up with something more interesting, a flat 1% bonus is not very interesting compared to things like 5% pickpocket or 50% swim speed.
- Tough: Nerf to 10% (See below)
- Red Diamond: Replace with a racial that gives +10% max magicka. Imperial is a very good race for Stamina right now, but I feel like there's not really a good beefy race (something with an HP bonus) option for Magicka users. This would give players an option for a race that doesn't really have anything super special going in one specific category for it, but can easily respec between all playstyles and be very effective. Might be a little too strong of a change but I feel like it'd be interesting to see Imperial become a true jack of all trades race.

I really like the idea of Imperial being a jack of all trades.

The high Luck was always pretty indicative of that. I do think the way they were designed in this game though for the most part develops that style, although I'm personally not averse to what is being suggested. I'd rather they simply make attribute bonuses a static number, that way the bonus will be beneficial no matter what 'build' you make a race.

Junkogen

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

My problem with the Argonian changes (the only race changes that rub me the wrong way) is that it wants to make Argonians something they are not. They've always been a highly athletic, agile race with swift bouts of regeneration and the capacity to breathe underwater. They're known for guerrilla warfare, and have a knack for stealth, alchemy, illusion, and restoration. That's it. The Restoration/Alchemy part is the only thing that fits in this new paradigm, but it completely neglects the overwhelming majority of what Argonians are supposed to be. The Nords at the very least are known for being tough (although they also use to be known as being heavy hitting melee types as well). I'll be able to live with the changes but I'm not going to be silent about it and act like I'm happy. I've been unhappy with the Argonian passives for a very long time and this is actually a move in the wrong direction. If you were to make ANY kind of change I would recommend they find a way to give Argonians 20%-30% health regeneration, stamina regeneration, and magic regeneration. I'd also add in something to lower the cooldown on potion use for Argonians, to actually signify that they are more adept at dealing with Alchemy, if they're going to stick hard and fast to that passive. As it stands the cooldowns are really terrible on this skill. I also personally would like to see them create a variant of the Stealthy passive, that includes the detection radius but does not include the extra damage bonus. Finally, for goodness sake the Poison/Disease resistance passives are a joke. These should be at least 4k to be worthwhile. You barely notice a piddly 1k resistance, particularly when debuffs are factored in. Argonians should be able to eat meatbag catapults for breakfast.

There's no hope. ZOS has made their decision. Argonians are to be the healer race. We have to accept this, reroll, race change, or quit. It is what it is. It sucks. Such is life in Tamriel.

Mettaricana

Valencer wrote: »

boundsy88 wrote: »

we need to see some buffs to magic races, at least as far as sustain goes. compare the best stamina race (redguard) to the best magic race (high elf).

They both get 10% max stats of their respective attributes

They both get 9% regen to their respective stats

But redguard gets 1000+ stamina back every 4 seconds on melee

Id rather just see them nerf redguard now that theyre finally finally doing a somewhat serious racial rebalancing. There should not be a "best" race for stamina or magicka, ever.

I'm probably biased because I tend to prefer PvP over PvE, but I dont know why people arent making a bigger deal out of this. Forget about khajiit.... redguards get 600-800 free effective stamina regen unless theyre getting mega-zerged and cant fight back at all. People are running full-damage specs in PvP as redguards and STILL sustaining just fine. It's beyond ridiculous how much this race offers compared to any other in the current PvP meta.

Adrenaline Rush was so obviously designed in a time when we had softcaps. Now that people can stack max stamina to the moon this passive is WAY overperforming.

I admit the freebie stamia is too high it invalidated all stamina races and doesn't do much for diversity its like one heavy attack added with adrenaline rush and you got 2-4 skill casts restored. Either others need a buff or this needs a bit of a reduction and I agree no race should be the best at something. And if races are supposed to be better at something then make it show so far max stam stam recovery and freebie on hit still just outshines everything.

Either they need to drastically buff the other races or nerf everything down to the 3% buff range so that it literally makes little diffence to pick a race other than to min max minimal stat differences or just be what you want but buff the returns we get using attribute points to compensate a lil of the racial losses

Kronuxx

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I've been stuck as a Breton since launch and after the removal of soft caps I deeply regret it - but I spent too much time maxing everything out and getting PVP ranks to ever reroll.

Obviously I play a stamina nightblade because it's the LEAST optimal build (lol) for my race but I will definitely be switching to either Imperial or Wood Elf for obvious reasons.

Bretons and Nords are by far the worst races to chose now. Very disappointing.

Argonian buffs are nice - maybe a bit too strong as templar argonian would hands down be the best healer now in terms of raw output but at least other races still have better resource management.

Khajit buffs are total overkill. This will make it the best pvp race in the game if it goes live - at least for all stamina builds.

ArtOfShred wrote: »

My collected thoughts on racials:



Imperial)
- Shield Affinity: Come up with something more interesting, a flat 1% bonus is not very interesting compared to things like 5% pickpocket or 50% swim speed.
- Tough: Nerf to 10% (See below)
- Red Diamond: Replace with a racial that gives +10% max magicka. Imperial is a very good race for Stamina right now, but I feel like there's not really a good beefy race (something with an HP bonus) option for Magicka users. This would give players an option for a race that doesn't really have anything super special going in one specific category for it, but can easily respec between all playstyles and be very effective. Might be a little too strong of a change but I feel like it'd be interesting to see Imperial become a true jack of all trades race.

I really like the idea of Imperial being a jack of all trades.

Highly disagree with your argonian comment. Everyone knows that Argonians have always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to racial passives. Even now, with 9% healing done this isn't even "too strong". Rather, it just forces Argonians into a specific role, which more than anything is limiting, NOT powerful.

In fact, as others have pointed out this doesn't even tie in with the lore of Argonians in the Elder Scrolls universe. Argonians were always known for their qualities as assassins (remember Sithis?), and for their proficiency in guerilla warfare, both of which indicate a high propensity towards agility and dexterity; thus stamina is the closest matching quality when relating to the world of ESO. So I would recommend a change similar to that of what Dunmer have. Just as Dunmer have increased Magicka/Stamina, I would think Argonians should at least have some sort of increased stamina proportion. We could stay with the max magicka of 3%, but then add 6% stamina. It wouldn't be too groundbreaking (as essentially every other race has just as good or if not better % stats whether it is in regards to health/stamina/magicka), would fit within the lore of Argonians in regards to their physicality, and would help alleviate the issue of pigeon-holing them into one class. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

clocksstoppe

Devs please don't listen to these ignorant people claiming khajiit are OP.

Carnage passive: +8% weapon critical. Assuming the player has 60% to 80% crit without carnage, having carnage improves DPS by a WHOPPING 1%. WOW SO BROKEN 1% DMG BONUS PASSIVE.


Really hate all these bandwagoners who have no idea what they are talking about, just looking at their crit chance in character screen and assuming crit bar is just some magical multiplier for the DPS.

Destruent

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Devs please don't listen to these ignorant people claiming khajiit are OP.

Carnage passive: +8% weapon critical. Assuming the player has 60% to 80% crit without carnage, having carnage improves DPS by a WHOPPING 1%. WOW SO BROKEN 1% DMG BONUS PASSIVE.


Really hate all these bandwagoners who have no idea what they are talking about, just looking at their crit chance in character screen and assuming crit bar is just some magical multiplier for the DPS.

Assuming 80% crit without the passive it's more like 4...5% Dmg-Increase without any warhorns. It also gives you the possibility to change from thief to shadow on specific builds.
I don't know, how you get to this 1%, but it's just wrong.

actosh

Imperials really need improvement.

Asmael

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Devs please don't listen to these ignorant people claiming khajiit are OP.

Carnage passive: +8% weapon critical. Assuming the player has 60% to 80% crit without carnage, having carnage improves DPS by a WHOPPING 1%. WOW SO BROKEN 1% DMG BONUS PASSIVE.


Really hate all these bandwagoners who have no idea what they are talking about, just looking at their crit chance in character screen and assuming crit bar is just some magical multiplier for the DPS.

Assuming my current build (not counting Kena procs) as an argonian:


35k stamina
4k5 buffed weapon damage
70% critical chance
50% (base) + Minor force (12%) + Shadow (using TBS) (18%) + NB (10%) + CPs (10% in my case) = 100% crit damage.

Argonian (no WH)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1) = 1.7
Base damage = 7846 * 1.7 = 13338

Supposing I now have a Khajiit (not counting the extra 6% stamina bonus):

Khajiit (no WH // old)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1) = 1.78
Base damage = 7846 * 1.78 = 13966

A 4.7% difference.

Not let's add Warhorn shall we? Since we have 100% critical damage, adding WH will push us up to 130% CD.

Argonian (with WH)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1.3) = 1.91
Base damage = 7846 * 1.91 = 14986

Khajiit (with WH // old)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 7846 * 2.014 = 15802

A 6% difference.

Taking into account that I have 35k stamina with the undaunted passives, being a Khajiit in the new patch will bring me to 37k approximately.

Khajiit (new // with WH)
Base uncrit damage = 37,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 8037 (higher)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 8037 * 2.014 = 16187

A 8% difference.

TL;DR: No that's not 1%. That's a flat 8% DPS increase compared to races with no bonuses (of course, slightly less for Redguards and Imperials, but I'd like to have more than 3 races ingame possibly).

You don't balance a game around bad builds, you balance it around endgame.

clocksstoppe

Asmael wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Devs please don't listen to these ignorant people claiming khajiit are OP.

Carnage passive: +8% weapon critical. Assuming the player has 60% to 80% crit without carnage, having carnage improves DPS by a WHOPPING 1%. WOW SO BROKEN 1% DMG BONUS PASSIVE.


Really hate all these bandwagoners who have no idea what they are talking about, just looking at their crit chance in character screen and assuming crit bar is just some magical multiplier for the DPS.

Assuming my current build (not counting Kena procs) as an argonian:


35k stamina
4k5 buffed weapon damage
70% critical chance
50% (base) + Minor force (12%) + Shadow (using TBS) (18%) + NB (10%) + CPs (10% in my case) = 100% crit damage.

Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1) = 1.7
Base damage = 7846 * 1.7 = 13338

Supposing I now have a Khajiit (not counting the extra 6% stamina bonus):

Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1) = 1.78
Base damage = 7846 * 1.78 = 13966

A 4.7% difference.

Not let's add Warhorn shall we? Since we have 100% critical damage, adding WH will push us up to 130% CD.

Argonian (or no bonuses whatsoever)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1.3) = 1.91
Base damage = 7846 * 1.91 = 14986

Khajiit (old)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 7846 * 2.014 = 15802

A 6% difference.

Taking into account that I have 35k stamina with the undaunted passives, being a Khajiit in the new patch will bring me to 37k approximately.

Khajiit (buffed)
Base uncrit damage = 37,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 8037 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 8037 * 2.014 = 16187

A 8% difference.

TL;DR: No that's not 1%. That's a flat 8% DPS increase compared to races with no bonuses (of course, slightly less for Redguards and Imperials, but I'd like to have more than 3 races ingame possibly).

You don't balance a game around bad builds, you balance it around endgame.

What do you mean no bonuses. Are you pretending to be dumb? Redguard and imperial have raw stats that increase damage. In addition, they are ahead in pvp due to one having higher sustain and the other having significantly higher health pool.

Also your calculation is wrong. You don't add crit chance * crit damage mod to the base uncrit damage, you add it to 1- base uncrit damage because when you crit it means you don't crit.

Asmael

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Devs please don't listen to these ignorant people claiming khajiit are OP.

Carnage passive: +8% weapon critical. Assuming the player has 60% to 80% crit without carnage, having carnage improves DPS by a WHOPPING 1%. WOW SO BROKEN 1% DMG BONUS PASSIVE.


Really hate all these bandwagoners who have no idea what they are talking about, just looking at their crit chance in character screen and assuming crit bar is just some magical multiplier for the DPS.

Assuming my current build (not counting Kena procs) as an argonian:


35k stamina
4k5 buffed weapon damage
70% critical chance
50% (base) + Minor force (12%) + Shadow (using TBS) (18%) + NB (10%) + CPs (10% in my case) = 100% crit damage.

Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1) = 1.7
Base damage = 7846 * 1.7 = 13338

Supposing I now have a Khajiit (not counting the extra 6% stamina bonus):

Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1) = 1.78
Base damage = 7846 * 1.78 = 13966

A 4.7% difference.

Not let's add Warhorn shall we? Since we have 100% critical damage, adding WH will push us up to 130% CD.

Argonian (or no bonuses whatsoever)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1.3) = 1.91
Base damage = 7846 * 1.91 = 14986

Khajiit (old)
Base uncrit damage = 35,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 7846 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 7846 * 2.014 = 15802

A 6% difference.

Taking into account that I have 35k stamina with the undaunted passives, being a Khajiit in the new patch will bring me to 37k approximately.

Khajiit (buffed)
Base uncrit damage = 37,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 8037 (same)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 8037 * 2.014 = 16187

A 8% difference.

TL;DR: No that's not 1%. That's a flat 8% DPS increase compared to races with no bonuses (of course, slightly less for Redguards and Imperials, but I'd like to have more than 3 races ingame possibly).

You don't balance a game around bad builds, you balance it around endgame.

What do you mean no bonuses. Are you pretending to be dumb? Redguard and imperial have raw stats that increase damage. In addition, they are ahead in pvp due to one having higher sustain and the other having significantly higher health pool.

Also your calculation is wrong. You don't add crit chance * crit damage mod to the base uncrit damage, you add it to 1- base uncrit damage because when you crit it means you don't crit.

Taken directly from @Asayre 's Arithmagic:



Doesn't take a math genius to apply this math, but please go ahead and call people dumb when you pull random numbers out of your hat.

We don't take PvP into account, that's not the reason for the complaint, but since you have so kindly asked (kappa) for this, here's the math for Imperial/Redguard:

Imp/Redguard (with WH)
Base uncrit damage = 38,400 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 8171
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.7 * 1.3) = 1.91
Base damage = 8171* 1.91 = 15606

Compared to the new Khajiit (reminder):

Khajiit (new // with WH)
Base uncrit damage = 37,000 / 10.46 + 4,500 = 8037 (higher)
Crit multiplier = 1 + (0.78 * 1.3) = 2.014
Base damage = 8037 * 2.014 = 16187

A 3.7% damage increase.

Now I have no issues with buffing Khajiit, as long as it's not a DPS increase. Redguards have overperforming sustain due to Adrenaline rush, but no news under the sun.

Jar_Ek

I do not understand why @zos you have decided to turn Argonians into healers by changong quick to mend and yet simultaneously ignore both a large amount of lore and the set of Argonian passives as a whole.

Let me help you.
Your proposed changes support magicka Argonian Templars and that's about it as they have both health (and health based abilities) and healing - and are not reliant on light armour or wards (unlike magicka Sorcerers).

The existing potion resource return is a generally poor passive as it provides a return once every 45s (and few builds actually need all 3 resources returned at the same time consistently), it costs money and to be truely effective forces a thirsty playstyle. Also the returns are not great: 12% of 40k is 4800 which is 106 a second over 45s or 10% of a 2120 regen. Most builds won't achieve 40k in a stat and most players won't drink a potion on cooldown which means that this passive is generally worse than a 10% regeneration bonus and certainly requires more maintenance and costs more.

The resistance passive has limited to no real benefit in pve - it simply isn't required and as it does nothing against player weapon poisons then it's not great in pvp either. Even against the effects it does help with, it is too low to make much difference.

The post soft cap world of eso has a meta that is primarily about maximum magicka or stamina and Argonians sit at the bottom of this meta on live. The proposed changes will not change this in any way for any non healer Argonian build (which generally means Templars), but it will make all of the non healer builds weaker.

TBH I was expecting Argonian passives to be buffed compared to their previous incarnations and I was expecting some consideration to be given to the stealthy guerrilla fighting style of the Argonians.

The fact that they have been pushed into a magicka healer role feels like a real kick in the teeth if I am being honest and I am very unhappy about it.

Destruent

Jar_Ek wrote: »

The existing potion resource return is a generally poor passive as it provides a return once every 45s (and few builds actually need all 3 resources returned at the same time consistently), it costs money and to be truely effective forces a thirsty playstyle. Also the returns are not great: 12% of 40k is 4800 which is 106 a second over 45s or 10% of a 2120 regen. Most builds won't achieve 40k in a stat and most players won't drink a potion on cooldown which means that this passive is generally worse than a 10% regeneration bonus and certainly requires more maintenance and costs more.

This depends on what content you are doing. In PvE most players run around with 40k+ Mainstat and a base regen of around 500...1k, most are also using potions on cooldown. So this passive is the stronger than 10% more regen pve-wise. For PvP it depends on your build. And even with 30k Mainstat and less than ~1.5k baseregen this passive is stronger.

craigr02

I like all the changes. I originally rolled nord templar. I will be changing that toon to highelf. I like magika. I also like your khajit changes. Lots of people cry on here, that's because they want to be the best, and they think since these changes are going to put someone over them.

I like your argonians change too, but I won't be switching my healer to them yet. If they got some magika regen too then I would. Max magika, magika regen and healing would be legit.

Destruent

craigr02 wrote: »

I like all the changes. I originally rolled nord templar. I will be changing that toon to highelf. I like magika. I also like your khajit changes. Lots of people cry on here, that's because they want to be the best, and they think since these changes are going to put someone over them.

I like your argonians change too, but I won't be switching my healer to them yet. If they got some magika regen too then I would. Max magika, magika regen and healing would be legit.

Those Ressource-restore-passiv is better than 10% more regen in PvE-Builds and in most PvP builds it's about as strong as 10% regen while restoring all 3 ressources.

Jar_Ek

Destruent wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

The existing potion resource return is a generally poor passive as it provides a return once every 45s (and few builds actually need all 3 resources returned at the same time consistently), it costs money and to be truely effective forces a thirsty playstyle. Also the returns are not great: 12% of 40k is 4800 which is 106 a second over 45s or 10% of a 2120 regen. Most builds won't achieve 40k in a stat and most players won't drink a potion on cooldown which means that this passive is generally worse than a 10% regeneration bonus and certainly requires more maintenance and costs more.

This depends on what content you are doing. In PvE most players run around with 40k+ Mainstat and a base regen of around 500...1k, most are also using potions on cooldown. So this passive is the stronger than 10% more regen pve-wise. For PvP it depends on your build. And even with 30k Mainstat and less than ~1.5k baseregen this passive is stronger.

I would dispute this. In vma and trials or equivalent, then potion quaffing on cooldown is common whilst the action is ongoing but that isn't the case all the time by any stretch of the imagination and in such cases you start with a potion and hence the passive returns nothing or next to nothing. And how long do average encounters last? You may get a benefit once or twice from the passive if you start with a potion. This drops the effective returns (worse returns the shorter the fight). Also for pvp with 30k and 1.5k regen it's about even with a 10% passive regeneration but it does cost money and isn't always on. I still humbly suggest that a 4/8/12% (or better a 5/10/15) across the board regeneration would be a far better passive whilst still being suitably reptilian in nature.

Destruent

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

The existing potion resource return is a generally poor passive as it provides a return once every 45s (and few builds actually need all 3 resources returned at the same time consistently), it costs money and to be truely effective forces a thirsty playstyle. Also the returns are not great: 12% of 40k is 4800 which is 106 a second over 45s or 10% of a 2120 regen. Most builds won't achieve 40k in a stat and most players won't drink a potion on cooldown which means that this passive is generally worse than a 10% regeneration bonus and certainly requires more maintenance and costs more.

This depends on what content you are doing. In PvE most players run around with 40k+ Mainstat and a base regen of around 500...1k, most are also using potions on cooldown. So this passive is the stronger than 10% more regen pve-wise. For PvP it depends on your build. And even with 30k Mainstat and less than ~1.5k baseregen this passive is stronger.

I would dispute this. In vma and trials or equivalent, then potion quaffing on cooldown is common whilst the action is ongoing but that isn't the case all the time by any stretch of the imagination and in such cases you start with a potion and hence the passive returns nothing or next to nothing. And how long do average encounters last? You may get a benefit once or twice from the passive if you start with a potion. This drops the effective returns (worse returns the shorter the fight). Also for pvp with 30k and 1.5k regen it's about even with a 10% passive regeneration but it does cost money and isn't always on. I still humbly suggest that a 4/8/12% (or better a 5/10/15) across the board regeneration would be a far better passive whilst still being suitably reptilian in nature.

If it is 1.5k baseregen (without CP, armor passives, skills etc) it is equal. if not the argonian passiv is stronger while also providing the other 2 stats.

Jar_Ek

I still think that the situational nature of the passive makes it overall less useful than a roughly equivalent regeneration passive but tbh it is only 1 part of a mismatched set of Argonian passives that only support a small subset of builds.

AshTal

Ok the restore when drinking potions for Argonian's is just terrible I think we can all agree that and anyone who plays an Argonian wants it gone. I would favour giving us a max magic and magic regen bonus.

However maybe they could swap it so this gives us an increase to healing received (rather than the terrible restore when drinking potions) while still keeping the increase to healing supplied. We would be losing a terrible racial and getting something a bit useful.

Kronuxx

AshTal wrote: »

Ok the restore when drinking potions for Argonian's is just terrible I think we can all agree that and anyone who plays an Argonian wants it gone. I would favour giving us a max magic and magic regen bonus.

However maybe they could swap it so this gives us an increase to healing received (rather than the terrible restore when drinking potions) while still keeping the increase to healing supplied. We would be losing a terrible racial and getting something a bit useful.

More like get rid of the potion restoration and replace with stamina % boost. This is more in line with being the dextrous amphibians that we are, and our ability to wage guerrilla warfare against our Dunmer counterparts.

Guerilla Warfare: a form of irregular warfare in which a small group of combatants such as paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military.

Notice the keyword here that is bolded and italicized. The stamina attribute best matches this.

Junkogen

The Argonians are ***, okay? Wake up and smell the race change.

Can't you smell what The Wrobel is cooking?

GCypher87

Quick to mend should just be scraped. In it's place should be a hivemind like skill.

Example:

Histmind: Increase Weapon Damage 2%/4%/6% for every Argonian within a 25m radius. Capped at 18%.


Obviously it needs to be balanced. But the numbers are just there so you get the idea.

This is also lore friend because the Hist is exactly why Argonians are so good at guerrilla warfare.

Van_0S

Junkogen wrote: »

The Argonians are ***, okay? Wake up and smell the race change.

Can't you smell what The Wrobel is cooking?

Argonian dish?!

Maztiax

The Khajiit changes are completely unacceptable. There is no reason to take the one race that is already too powerful and make then even stronger by giving them extra stamina. This will give players no reason to ever choose Bosmer, and it will pigeonhole every PvE stamina build into one race.

Going through with this change will reflect very poorly on the integrity of the company. It will seem like a cheap marketing tactic to get every stamina player to buy race change tokens, because that's exactly what it is.

Najarati

Putting this here as well since it's the official feedback post:

Argonians
I've played an Argonian healer (Templar) since the open beta so naturally I was pleased to see changes benefiting our healing capabilities. Even so, perhaps ZOS can alter Quick to Mend so it's 2/4/6% Healing Done and 2/4/6% Healing Received as to not affect tank builds yet still benefit healing builds.

I also think Argonian poison/disease resistance should be doubled its current value so it has real impact or, if not that, keep the current value and perhaps give Argonians 25/50% resistance to player-made poisons.

For those wanting that "Guerrilla Warfare" flavor, what if instead of the potion passive Argonians dropped into stealth 25/50% faster?

Kronuxx

Najarati wrote: »

Putting this here as well since it's the official feedback post:

Argonians
I've played an Argonian healer (Templar) since the open beta so naturally I was pleased to see changes benefiting our healing capabilities. Even so, perhaps ZOS can alter Quick to Mend so it's 2/4/6% Healing Done and 2/4/6% Healing Received as to not affect tank builds yet still benefit healing builds.

I also think Argonian poison/disease resistance should be doubled its current value so it has real impact or, if not that, keep the current value and perhaps give Argonians 25/50% resistance to player-made poisons.

For those wanting that "Guerrilla Warfare" flavor, what if instead of the potion passive Argonians dropped into stealth 25/50% faster?

I like some of your other suggestions such as increasing Poison/Disease resistance. On the other hand, decreasing the time it takes to go into stealth wouldn't be that decent of a fundamental change considering A) There are too things/bugs that keep you in combat as it is, B ) Going into stealth more quickly may really only have a role in, perhaps pickpocketing/lockpicking more quickly before being caught due to the time it takes to go into stealth, but really that's the extent of it. In addition such an ability is too niche. Argonians excel as hybrids, agile yet adept enough with magicka, so as such I feel that their abilities should be more in line with supporting a variety of builds/hybrids.

In another thread, @Silver_Strider had some good suggestions that are lore friendly as well.

Silver_Strider

I posted this as a hypothetical in another thread and people seemed to like it.

Argonian:
Quick To Mend: 2/4/6% Max magic, increase Healing Done by 2/4/6%
Argonian Resist: 2/4/6% Max Health , Poison/Disease Resistance
Child of the Hist: 2/4/6% Max Stamina, Increase Poison/Disease Damage

Take from that what you will.

RaddlemanNumber7

This one wonders why people who worry about small numbers spend so much of their time darkening the moons with their futile discourse.

Khajiiti is fun. Whatever the gods of Tamriel decide is the future, Khajiiti will still be fun.

Khajiit will still dance beneath the two moons regardless of whether they are bright or dull. Khajiit will still have sleek fur and whippy tails. Khajiit will still love to play with their food.

This one is wise enough to know that this number…

[img][/img]

Is as effective as this number…

[img][/img]


The Echatere dies in a single blow, without having a chance to attack.

Killing with the daggers is quick and easy. Killing with the sword takes more time and effort but this one thinks the sound the blow makes is much more satisfying. Killing with the sword is much more fun. The big number only serves to enhance that fun.

Khajiiti is fun.

Vythri

Seriously though, can we please get a racial passive that does something for ranged physical damage? Is that too much to ask for?

SilentFox22

Dear @ZoS,

When can we expect an update on racial passives?

actosh

Make imperials red diamond work like redguarsa adrenaline rush, just with hp instead of stam.
Or up the %based procchance to 25% since winperials have luck. As it is right now the red diamond passive just sucks.