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Wow costume dyes require crown store or ESO plus ?
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Where are we getting the free thing from? I will gladly pay 20-40 bucks for a DLC or two that includes the crafting bags, entire dye customization system, racial change, and appearance change. Game expansions sell equals developer makes money.Lysette wrote:Well of course - they put in effort and that costed money to create these features - why do you expect them to do that for free. If you have to do over-time for your boss, do you expect him to pay you for this extra effort or are you saying, well, you paid me already, all fine, so I work this over-time for free. - You don't, and why do you expect ZOS to do over-time for free just because you paid for the game already.
What bothers is me is this piece meal buy over and over thing. That isn't buy to play it is micro transaction free to play stuff.
I repeat, if I could have the convenience of owning those features in my game without having to re-purchase stuff over and over I would buy the convenience DLC pack. They way they are doing dyes and barber shop is like If I bought the imperial race but in order to customize it or If I deleted it, I lose it and have to repurchase the race.
when they announced the crafting bag they stated clearly it will be ESO+ exclusive - what does this tell you?- it means, you will not get it without to subscribe. And they said it early on - long before the bags were actually available. Now there is another exclusive perk - the freedom to use the dying system like we have it on armors as well for costumes - and guess what, there are more exclusive perks to be expected in future - so if you want these exclusive stuffs/features, you have to sub, if you don't, you won't get it. What is is so hard to understand with the meaning of the word "exclusive"?
What is so hard for you to understand about paying for the feature when it is delivered and not paying a subscription based on promises of things to come from a company with no morals and a history of scamming its customers?
the word "exclusive" made the decision easy - but I stated in a thread at that time as well, that I expect them to be really useful, and if they would not be useful, I would never spend another dime on the game - and the bag turned out to be awesome, even more than I would have expected. I thought they would do it well, so I had faith into it, simply because I saw that it would be THE ARGUMENT for a subscription if done really well - so I expected it to be good, but it was even better.
I am not against it to be offered as a crown store item though - but they won't do it, because it would raise a storm as well. So if both is raising a storm on the forum, they will just stick with exclusive. Not that it would make it better, if they would offer it in the crown store, because they will keep adding perks to subscribers, which would have to be bought as well, if they would do it like that - in the end it would not change a thing, it would make it even more expensive to buy it - you would just fall into the same trap twice and continue falling into it.Edited by Lysette on June 25, 2016 4:37AM0 -
Niastissa✭✭✭
Where are we getting the free thing from? I will gladly pay 20-40 bucks for a DLC or two that includes the crafting bags, entire dye customization system, racial change, and appearance change. Game expansions sell equals developer makes money.Lysette wrote:Well of course - they put in effort and that costed money to create these features - why do you expect them to do that for free. If you have to do over-time for your boss, do you expect him to pay you for this extra effort or are you saying, well, you paid me already, all fine, so I work this over-time for free. - You don't, and why do you expect ZOS to do over-time for free just because you paid for the game already.
What bothers is me is this piece meal buy over and over thing. That isn't buy to play it is micro transaction free to play stuff.
I repeat, if I could have the convenience of owning those features in my game without having to re-purchase stuff over and over I would buy the convenience DLC pack. They way they are doing dyes and barber shop is like If I bought the imperial race but in order to customize it or If I deleted it, I lose it and have to repurchase the race.
when they announced the crafting bag they stated clearly it will be ESO+ exclusive - what does this tell you?- it means, you will not get it without to subscribe. And they said it early on - long before the bags were actually available. Now there is another exclusive perk - the freedom to use the dying system like we have it on armors as well for costumes - and guess what, there are more exclusive perks to be expected in future - so if you want these exclusive stuffs/features, you have to sub, if you don't, you won't get it. What is is so hard to understand with the meaning of the word "exclusive"?
What is so hard for you to understand about paying for the feature when it is delivered and not paying a subscription based on promises of things to come from a company with no morals and a history of scamming its customers?
the word "exclusive" made the decision easy - but I stated in a thread at that time as well, that I expect them to be really useful, and if they would not be useful, I would never spend another dime on the game - and the bag turned out to be awesome, even more than I would have expected. I thought they would do it well, so I had faith into it, simply because I saw that it would be THE ARGUMENT for a subscription if done really well - so I expected it to be good, but it was even better.
stop and actually listen to what I am saying instead of simply regurgating what you heard and how it makes you feel.
I don't care for the I'm a subscription game. No I'm buy to pay. No I'm buy to pay but you only get the full experience if you subscribe. But wait for that to happen until after people opted to buy content instead of subscribe.
You are looking at it as what the subscription gives you. I'm looking at it from the aspect of what they can take from me and hide behind a pay wall after taking my money previously based on a ever changing pay system.Edited by Niastissa on June 25, 2016 4:37AM3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
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Where are we getting the free thing from? I will gladly pay 20-40 bucks for a DLC or two that includes the crafting bags, entire dye customization system, racial change, and appearance change. Game expansions sell equals developer makes money.Lysette wrote:Well of course - they put in effort and that costed money to create these features - why do you expect them to do that for free. If you have to do over-time for your boss, do you expect him to pay you for this extra effort or are you saying, well, you paid me already, all fine, so I work this over-time for free. - You don't, and why do you expect ZOS to do over-time for free just because you paid for the game already.
What bothers is me is this piece meal buy over and over thing. That isn't buy to play it is micro transaction free to play stuff.
I repeat, if I could have the convenience of owning those features in my game without having to re-purchase stuff over and over I would buy the convenience DLC pack. They way they are doing dyes and barber shop is like If I bought the imperial race but in order to customize it or If I deleted it, I lose it and have to repurchase the race.
when they announced the crafting bag they stated clearly it will be ESO+ exclusive - what does this tell you?- it means, you will not get it without to subscribe. And they said it early on - long before the bags were actually available. Now there is another exclusive perk - the freedom to use the dying system like we have it on armors as well for costumes - and guess what, there are more exclusive perks to be expected in future - so if you want these exclusive stuffs/features, you have to sub, if you don't, you won't get it. What is is so hard to understand with the meaning of the word "exclusive"?
What is so hard for you to understand about paying for the feature when it is delivered and not paying a subscription based on promises of things to come from a company with no morals and a history of scamming its customers?
the word "exclusive" made the decision easy - but I stated in a thread at that time as well, that I expect them to be really useful, and if they would not be useful, I would never spend another dime on the game - and the bag turned out to be awesome, even more than I would have expected. I thought they would do it well, so I had faith into it, simply because I saw that it would be THE ARGUMENT for a subscription if done really well - so I expected it to be good, but it was even better.
stop and actually listen to what I am saying instead of simply regurgating what you heard and how it makes you feel.
I don't care for the I'm a subscription game. No I'm buy to pay. No I'm buy to pay but you only get the full experience if you subscribe. But wait for that to happen until after people opted to buy content instead of subscribe.
You are looking at it as what the subscription gives you. I'm looking at it from the aspect of what they can take from me and hide behind a pay wall after taking my money previously based on a ever changing pay system.
You can do as you please of course, I am done explaining, you won't change your mind and I won't either. So I stop, as you wish, arguing with you about the matter.0 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭@Niastissa except they're "hiding" costume dying behind a "pay wall." Costume dying. Something the game has gone years without and would continue perfectly fine without. It in no way impacts any gameplay, character progression, anything. A lot of people would never even think about costume dying.
If they hid a 6th skill slot behind a paywall, then you could have a legitimate complaint. But this is costume dying...
Edit because if you don't read the last part like the Allen Iverson "Practice" rant, you're doing it wrong.Edited by SwaminoNowlino on June 25, 2016 4:42AMXbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭and what does "behind a pay wall" even mean - the whole game is behind a pay wall - you cannot play it without to have paid for it. Well, you could, in this free trial weekend last year, but otherwise you couldn't. And any bit of it other then the base game was always "behind a pay wall" - imperial edition, any race any faction and so on. Now with One Tamriel thie any race any faction thing has just meaning when it comes to PvP in Cyrrodil, but is otherwise worthless - you cannot complain about this either, because you could use this feature until now and it was not available other than via this extra in the crown store.
Conditions change - that is like with new technology, early adopters have to pay premium, but for the masses it will later be affordable. That is just how things are and evolve over time. Maybe even the crafting bag will make it to non-subscribers in a watered-down way some time in future - if there are enough other exclusive perks to make subscription valuable enough. But will it solve the issue of complains?- Never, people have always something to complain about, regardless how good or bad something is.Edited by Lysette on June 25, 2016 4:57AM0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭This "Scam" you Niastissa are complaining about is standard business practice.
Lets look at the BIGGEST game in the MMO Market WOW.
1. Buy Game, Pay Sub to Play purchased game.
2. Buy Expansion, Pay Sub to Play purchased game as well as Expansion
ESO
1. Play base game free, Buy Expansion Play Free
And/or
2. Pay sub get all content + perks
ESO's Scam seems to be better than WOW, which is standard business practice for MMO's.2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitiLizard wrote: »Eh... whatever I uninstalled ESO to make room for the new Doom that I just bought...
The chance of ZOS ever getting more money from me pretty much 0 atm...
It's sad though as I had the tiger senche mount reward for having subbed for almost a whole year...
Now I just wish I could get that money back.
You WON'T be disappointed. I just finished DOOM the other day @KhajiitiLizard and all I gotta say is they left me salivating for more!
Something I haven't said about ESO for a long time...What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Aimora✭✭✭✭✭
No next update after the upcoming one:NateAssassin wrote: »Subscribing to dye a costume, is this some sort of joke lol, what's next? Subs can only dye weapons?- Subscribers get their CP cap raised to 1002 with infinite enlightenment.
- Subscribers get 3 saved sets of champion points to swap between and no cost for re-doing Champion points.
- DLC buyers have to buy theirs at a rate of 1 crown for CP and capped at 990 CP with limited enlightment.
- DLC buyers can buy one saved set and a free one time champion point reset. Once used they need to repurchase it in crown store.
I always find it incredible how people make a massive leap from minor convenience/cosmetic perks to major P2W perks - but there is always hyperbole when something doesn't suit someones stand point!Aimora Gilidhren - 50 Hybrid Sorcerer
Aimae Gilihdril - 50Templar Healer
Aimsae Astasia - 50 Templar Tank
Aimellie Halfpenny - 50 Nightblade spinning DPS
Sofae Ethelbur - 50 Dragonknight Tank
Sha'Mash 50 - Nightblade - Former Empress
Saelenor Wilihfren 50 - Templar No. 3
Seliene Harbingerin 50 - DK in training
Aims For Equanimity 10 - Magicka DK
Circle of the Phoenix - Guild Mistress
Elysium - Guild 2nd in Command
Auridon Trading Company - Joint GMLooking for a friendly, progress focused guild check us out at thecircleofthephoenix.gamerlaunch.com/Check me out at Anook anook.com/aimora3 -
Kalifas✭✭✭
Infinite crafting space is a minor convenience? No, minor would be 10 extra inventory spaces.
No next update after the upcoming one:NateAssassin wrote: »Subscribing to dye a costume, is this some sort of joke lol, what's next? Subs can only dye weapons?- Subscribers get their CP cap raised to 1002 with infinite enlightenment.
- Subscribers get 3 saved sets of champion points to swap between and no cost for re-doing Champion points.
- DLC buyers have to buy theirs at a rate of 1 crown for CP and capped at 990 CP with limited enlightment.
- DLC buyers can buy one saved set and a free one time champion point reset. Once used they need to repurchase it in crown store.
I always find it incredible how people make a massive leap from minor convenience/cosmetic perks to major P2W perks - but there is always hyperbole when something doesn't suit someones stand point!
Infinite Dying without losing dyes or having to buy over and over on the crown store is a minor convenience? No, minor would be 10 extra dye slots.
You're not getting the gist. The major inconvenience is crown buyers have to buy stuff on a micro level repeatedly. When Buy to play should be pay it once and you get the full feature until the servers close down.
Money is money. I think it's great subscribers help ZoS earn money. But so do DLC/Crown Store buyers. These are major features and should be purchasable in the crown store as a full blown DLC for 20-40 bucks, a convenience pack.
Gonna be hard to call yourself a fair hybrid model or pull in people who don't normally do mmos. When more and more keeps getting locked behind the monthly subscription. Subscription perks should be minor perks above purchasing the features not get exclusivity or be major perks.
Edited by Kalifas on June 25, 2016 7:13AMAn Avid fan of Elder Scrolls Online. Check out my Concepts Repository!2 -
lookstwice✭✭✭This is awesome, keep up the great work ZoS. Just another reason to keep on subbing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do weapon dyes. Come on ZoS! It really takes away a lot of value from armor dyes when you have to go with shades of red on everything unless you want your weapons to stick out like sore thumbs.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
Towerdragon✭✭✭Towerdragon wrote: »
Dear mr. White knightTowerdragon wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Towerdragon wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Solid_Metal wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
how the hell you are screwed?, care to elaborate?
Sure, I'll elaborate. I'm screwed because I invested dollars and crowns into buying DLC that are effectively WORTHLESS if I end up having to subscribe every month anyway in order to experience the whole game. The crafting bag is a gigantic "F U" to everyone who got conned into purchasing the DLC... this costume dye thing is just adding insult to injury.
I could say the exact same thing about my Sub if i drop my sub I lose access to all content (so that makes my sub worthless?) i dont understand your gripe sorry.
Your subscription is just a rental, but I purchased DLC with the idea that I OWNED them. Now ZOS is twisting my arm to try to make me pay RENT on something I already OWN. You don't see the problem with that?
Did you read the ToS? You bought a license to use the content. And ZOS controls the content. From the ToS:
By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account. ...
You agree that You have no ownership right or title in or to any such Downloadable Content, including, but not limited to, the virtual goods appearing or originating in the Services (such as a Game) or any other attributes associated with any Account or Services. ZeniMax does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything that appears or originates in a Service or a Game. Accordingly, You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services. Evidence of any attempt to redeem Downloadable Content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the "real world" will result in the immediate suspension or termination of Your Account.
3. Limited License to Use
Subject to the terms in these Terms of Service and Your compliance with all of the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, ZeniMax grants to You, for Your personal and private use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable license to use Services (including any Content which is made available by ZeniMax (including but not limited to Game Mods that You download from a ZeniMax website) as a part of a Service and then solely in connection with such Service) as set forth in these Terms of Service.
Fromt he EULA:
Ownership of the Game.
ZeniMax and its licensors are and will continue to be the owner of all right, title, and interest in and to the Game and the Service, including without limitation all intellectual property rights and moral rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including without limitation any titles, software programs and code, Game related themes, characters, character names, character likenesses, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural, landscape and other designs in the Game, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, audio-visual effects, storylines, methods of operation, and any related documentation). The Game is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international treaties and conventions, and other laws. The Game may contain materials licensed by third parties, and the licensors of those materials may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement. This paragraph will survive the termination of this Agreement. You acknowledge and agree that you have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in any feature or content contained in the Game. As further described in the ZeniMax Terms of Service, but subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1 of the ZeniMax Terms of Service), ZeniMax may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Game at any time and ZeniMax may also impose limits on certain features or restrict your access to parts or all of the Game without notice or liability.
these people will not listen to reason
What do you mean these people?
Owning a perpetual license is the same thing as buying a single player game. So yes we are justified in being upset after buying a perpetual license for content we are being strong armed into paying for a rental license to access the same content.
A few months ago you people where the ones clamoring about how awesome the buy to play model was.
No original thought just think how the company tells you to think.
What he means by that is this kind of practise should never be encouraged by us (players).
If we accept this then be prepared for more $$$ to come with an increase in price.
There is nothing wrong with a subscription based game - what is wrong is a free to play game - because it is long term more expensive and less enjoyable than a subscription game - IMO. You cannot expect a good service, if you are not willing to pay for it, simple as that. All what seems to be free, has somewhere something what will bother you until you finally pay - and often more than you would have had to pay in a subscription game.
But this is a B2P game!. I don't mind these kind of things to be there for a F2P game.
Just look at barbershop! We have to purchase real money to get those changes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274575/no-barber-shop-confirmed#latest
Well of course - they put in effort and that costed money to create these features - why do you expect them to do that for free. If you have to do over-time for your boss, do you expect him to pay you for this extra effort or are you saying, well, you paid me already, all fine, so I work this over-time for free for you. - You don't, and why do you expect ZOS to do over-time for free just because you paid for the game already.Towerdragon wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Towerdragon wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Solid_Metal wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
how the hell you are screwed?, care to elaborate?
Sure, I'll elaborate. I'm screwed because I invested dollars and crowns into buying DLC that are effectively WORTHLESS if I end up having to subscribe every month anyway in order to experience the whole game. The crafting bag is a gigantic "F U" to everyone who got conned into purchasing the DLC... this costume dye thing is just adding insult to injury.
I could say the exact same thing about my Sub if i drop my sub I lose access to all content (so that makes my sub worthless?) i dont understand your gripe sorry.
Your subscription is just a rental, but I purchased DLC with the idea that I OWNED them. Now ZOS is twisting my arm to try to make me pay RENT on something I already OWN. You don't see the problem with that?
Did you read the ToS? You bought a license to use the content. And ZOS controls the content. From the ToS:
By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account. ...
You agree that You have no ownership right or title in or to any such Downloadable Content, including, but not limited to, the virtual goods appearing or originating in the Services (such as a Game) or any other attributes associated with any Account or Services. ZeniMax does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything that appears or originates in a Service or a Game. Accordingly, You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services. Evidence of any attempt to redeem Downloadable Content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the "real world" will result in the immediate suspension or termination of Your Account.
3. Limited License to Use
Subject to the terms in these Terms of Service and Your compliance with all of the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, ZeniMax grants to You, for Your personal and private use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable license to use Services (including any Content which is made available by ZeniMax (including but not limited to Game Mods that You download from a ZeniMax website) as a part of a Service and then solely in connection with such Service) as set forth in these Terms of Service.
Fromt he EULA:
Ownership of the Game.
ZeniMax and its licensors are and will continue to be the owner of all right, title, and interest in and to the Game and the Service, including without limitation all intellectual property rights and moral rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including without limitation any titles, software programs and code, Game related themes, characters, character names, character likenesses, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural, landscape and other designs in the Game, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, audio-visual effects, storylines, methods of operation, and any related documentation). The Game is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international treaties and conventions, and other laws. The Game may contain materials licensed by third parties, and the licensors of those materials may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement. This paragraph will survive the termination of this Agreement. You acknowledge and agree that you have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in any feature or content contained in the Game. As further described in the ZeniMax Terms of Service, but subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1 of the ZeniMax Terms of Service), ZeniMax may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Game at any time and ZeniMax may also impose limits on certain features or restrict your access to parts or all of the Game without notice or liability.
these people will not listen to reason
What do you mean these people?
Owning a perpetual license is the same thing as buying a single player game. So yes we are justified in being upset after buying a perpetual license for content we are being strong armed into paying for a rental license to access the same content.
A few months ago you people where the ones clamoring about how awesome the buy to play model was.
No original thought just think how the company tells you to think.
What he means by that is this kind of practise should never be encouraged by us (players).
If we accept this then be prepared for more $$$ to come with an increase in price.
There is nothing wrong with a subscription based game - what is wrong is a free to play game - because it is long term more expensive and less enjoyable than a subscription game - IMO. You cannot expect a good service, if you are not willing to pay for it, simple as that. All what seems to be free, has somewhere something what will bother you until you finally pay - and often more than you would have had to pay in a subscription game.
But this is a B2P game!. I don't mind these kind of things to be there for a F2P game.
Just look at barbershop! We have to purchase real money to get those changes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274575/no-barber-shop-confirmed#latest
Well of course - they put in effort and that costed money to create these features - why do you expect them to do that for free. If you have to do over-time for your boss, do you expect him to pay you for this extra effort or are you saying, well, you paid me already, all fine, so I work this over-time for free for you. - You don't, and why do you expect ZOS to do over-time for free just because you paid for the game already.
I hate it when people apologize for companies. Are you so indoctrinated that you no longer have compassion towards people who got ripped off?
Just because you didn't get cheated doesn't mean what ZOS did was ethical.
I bought DLCs as well and was not subscribed until ZOS announced crafting bags as a subscription only perk and said, there will be more useful perks in future - and I immediately subscribed, I did not wait for the crafting bag, I made a leap of faith, no longer buying any more DLCs but trusted into that ZOS will get this right - you had the same chance, didn't you?
As a matter of fact no I didn't. When I was buying all the DLC on Wednesday of this week and dropping over a hundred dollars on this game the DLC section failed to mention that they are not feature complete.
The only place this is mentioned in the store is in the ESO + section. But why on earth would I go in there after I just got done buying all the DLC?
Yet some kid paying $15 is worth more then someone willing to spend more then just their allowance once a month and gets the royal treatment.
Whatever. I get it. I subscribed and won't be buying anymore crowns. Congratulations ZOS you lost yourself way more money then $77 over the course of six months. Plus thanks for the free crowns. I won't be wasting them on buying the DLC like the other person mentioned. That is beyond dumb especially doing it knowingly. Spending twice for the same content.
Calling people dumb is not constructive people can play however they want buying DLC or subbing and getting a monthly crown allotment and all future DLC released in the future as long as they keep the sub. If they can keep the quarterly release schedule then I'm going to be very happy.
Reading comprehension is not your strong point. I didn't call anyone dumb. I called the idea of paying for content twice dumb. Not the person.
Infinite crafting space is a minor convenience? No, minor would be 10 extra inventory spaces.
No next update after the upcoming one:NateAssassin wrote: »Subscribing to dye a costume, is this some sort of joke lol, what's next? Subs can only dye weapons?- Subscribers get their CP cap raised to 1002 with infinite enlightenment.
- Subscribers get 3 saved sets of champion points to swap between and no cost for re-doing Champion points.
- DLC buyers have to buy theirs at a rate of 1 crown for CP and capped at 990 CP with limited enlightment.
- DLC buyers can buy one saved set and a free one time champion point reset. Once used they need to repurchase it in crown store.
I always find it incredible how people make a massive leap from minor convenience/cosmetic perks to major P2W perks - but there is always hyperbole when something doesn't suit someones stand point!
Infinite Dying without losing dyes or having to buy over and over on the crown store is a minor convenience? No, minor would be 10 extra dye slots.
You're not getting the gist. The major inconvenience is crown buyers have to buy stuff on a micro level repeatedly. When Buy to play should be pay it once and you get the full feature until the servers close down.
Money is money. I think it's great subscribers help ZoS earn money. But so do DLC/Crown Store buyers. These are major features and should be purchasable in the crown store as a full blown DLC for 20-40 bucks, a convenience pack.
Gonna be hard to call yourself a fair hybrid model or pull in people who don't normally do mmos. When more and more keeps getting locked behind the monthly subscription. Subscription perks should be minor perks above purchasing the features not get exclusivity or be major perks.
ESO plus members complained that the sub was not worth it for minor progression bonus ZoS listened and have started giving ESO plus members what the asked for. Life is not fair and I have said it before investors dont really care able someone who randomly puts cash down in the store the sub is a much more concrete proof that the game is healthy. If you don't like it you have three options.
1. Sub to the game and get the bonuses
2. Play the game without the perks (something ESO plus members have done for 2 years)
3. Stop playing the game
These are all very simple choices. ZoS want people to sub that's the catch.Edited by Towerdragon on June 25, 2016 7:54AM0 -
Talyena✭✭✭✭Over the past six months 2 DLCs have been released at a cost of 4000 crowns which comes to $40. For $40 you could actually buy 5500 crowns so you would have crowns left over (and that doesn't count sales). Over that same six month period, a subscriber paid $90 for rent those same DLCs. For $10 less they could have bought 11000 crowns, and purchased both DLCs with 7000 crowns left over (once again not counting sales). Subscribing up until the release of crafting bags just wasn't worth it, but many (including myself) did anyway. For those who have already purchased the DLCs, you don't lose anything by subbing now. You still have those DLCs even if you stop subbing, You just gain access to the perks they are finally giving subscribers to make subscriptions actually worth having. The choices are subscribe for the perks, or continue buying DLCs and saving money.2
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Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can buy a "1-month unlimited dye pack" in the Crown Store... It's called a 1 month sub. People not happy with the preset dyes can still get the colors they want just by subbing for 1 month.. crafty ZOS knows that people will do that and those that do, probably see the value in subbing and hopefully remained subbed.
Anyway I really like the direction they are going with this. A sub is still purely optional, but at least there's some value to be had by being subbed now.
2 -
MuddledMuppet✭✭✭✭I don't think people realize that ESO Plus was supposed to be something that provided ACTUAL benefits to players that made it a tempting loyalty subscription from the time it was conceived, but it never did that until after Dark Brotherhood came out.
In all honesty, 10% Extra Gold, Inspiration, Experience Points as well as access to all DLC was just not worth the monthly price before imho. The only people that were subbed, including myself, were subbed because we got Crowns out of it, and it pays to still be a loyal sub for a game that you like (when it works, that is) to support the dev team to continue making it better.
Now, the ability to have a Craft Bag to store all of you crafting materials automatically as well as Dye Costumes & Hats from your Collectibles menu freely from a Dye Station as an ESO Plus sub is all easily summed up as simply being a measure of providing even more convenience to loyal subs of the game. You know...the people actually paying for the game and supporting the devs to keep working on it and improving on it more?
I don't like putting things bluntly, but when we pay for a sub to a game that isn't necessary to sub to, we do expect benefits to be earned from it. It is extremely tempting for people to get a sub for ESO Plus for the convenience it offers throughout the whole game, and that's how it should be. It's not pay-to-win either. You can perfectly get by in this game without a subscription. The sub is just to make things more convenient for players so that they can get access to all of the content the game has to offer without having to devote time to resource management as much.
I really don't see the issue with that. People were responding very well on stream when we saw that we could still access Dye Stations to dye Costumes and Hats with the dyes we have already unlocked as ESO Plus subs.
As a non-suscriber myself, I really like what they are doing now, and hope they keep expanding it in the future.
Now this is a really fair statement, I will give you an awesome for this.
It's fair? What because you agree with it. Give me a break. People who couldn't afford to buy the DLC paid the sub. Now all of a sudden people paying the sub get special treatment and things given to them and they want to start forcing us to pay a sub through dropping features.
I wouldn't be upset if they had not masqueraded around as a buy to play game and then pulled another about face in a money grab scheme.
From here on out they get sub money and nothing else. I'm beyond upset that they have the nerve to sell the DLC and act like you get the full experience just without a experience buff if you buy the content at a one time fee.
BAIT AND SWITCH
Beyond upset?
Describe please, actual crying? Wailing and gnashing of teeth? Details please.0 -
MuddledMuppet✭✭✭✭Towerdragon wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Towerdragon wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Solid_Metal wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
how the hell you are screwed?, care to elaborate?
Sure, I'll elaborate. I'm screwed because I invested dollars and crowns into buying DLC that are effectively WORTHLESS if I end up having to subscribe every month anyway in order to experience the whole game. The crafting bag is a gigantic "F U" to everyone who got conned into purchasing the DLC... this costume dye thing is just adding insult to injury.
I could say the exact same thing about my Sub if i drop my sub I lose access to all content (so that makes my sub worthless?) i dont understand your gripe sorry.
Your subscription is just a rental, but I purchased DLC with the idea that I OWNED them. Now ZOS is twisting my arm to try to make me pay RENT on something I already OWN. You don't see the problem with that?
Did you read the ToS? You bought a license to use the content. And ZOS controls the content. From the ToS:
By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account. ...
You agree that You have no ownership right or title in or to any such Downloadable Content, including, but not limited to, the virtual goods appearing or originating in the Services (such as a Game) or any other attributes associated with any Account or Services. ZeniMax does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything that appears or originates in a Service or a Game. Accordingly, You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services. Evidence of any attempt to redeem Downloadable Content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the "real world" will result in the immediate suspension or termination of Your Account.
3. Limited License to Use
Subject to the terms in these Terms of Service and Your compliance with all of the terms and conditions in these Terms of Service, ZeniMax grants to You, for Your personal and private use only, a non-exclusive, revocable, nontransferable license to use Services (including any Content which is made available by ZeniMax (including but not limited to Game Mods that You download from a ZeniMax website) as a part of a Service and then solely in connection with such Service) as set forth in these Terms of Service.
Fromt he EULA:
Ownership of the Game.
ZeniMax and its licensors are and will continue to be the owner of all right, title, and interest in and to the Game and the Service, including without limitation all intellectual property rights and moral rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including without limitation any titles, software programs and code, Game related themes, characters, character names, character likenesses, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural, landscape and other designs in the Game, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, audio-visual effects, storylines, methods of operation, and any related documentation). The Game is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international treaties and conventions, and other laws. The Game may contain materials licensed by third parties, and the licensors of those materials may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement. This paragraph will survive the termination of this Agreement. You acknowledge and agree that you have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in any feature or content contained in the Game. As further described in the ZeniMax Terms of Service, but subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1 of the ZeniMax Terms of Service), ZeniMax may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Game at any time and ZeniMax may also impose limits on certain features or restrict your access to parts or all of the Game without notice or liability.
these people will not listen to reason
What do you mean these people?
Owning a perpetual license is the same thing as buying a single player game. So yes we are justified in being upset after buying a perpetual license for content we are being strong armed into paying for a rental license to access the same content.
A few months ago you people where the ones clamoring about how awesome the buy to play model was.
No original thought just think how the company tells you to think.
He's right about the strong armed part, I had a few zos representatives come around and physically threaten me, after I agreed to pay up this sinister dude came around, carried out some psychological conditioning. It was horrible, a cross between A Clockwork Orange and 1984.
Their marketing team is now the paramilitary wing of zenimax.Edited by MuddledMuppet on June 25, 2016 9:06AM3 -
Forztr✭✭✭✭Only allowing ESO+ members the ability to use unlocked dyes to dye costumes is a poor decision. There are costumes in the crown store that i like the design of but not the color scheme so i won't buy them. Putting the ability to dye them behind the ESO+ paywall isn't going to make me sub it just means I buy less costumes.
Also the dye packs are going to be such a fail , not one of the ones shown looked remotely good. There are so many possible combinations that it will be super rare for them to release a combo that you would choose yourself.
What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.
/end my 2c3 -
Niastissa✭✭✭
Where are we getting the free thing from? I will gladly pay 20-40 bucks for a DLC or two that includes the crafting bags, entire dye customization system, racial change, and appearance change. Game expansions sell equals developer makes money.Lysette wrote:Well of course - they put in effort and that costed money to create these features - why do you expect them to do that for free. If you have to do over-time for your boss, do you expect him to pay you for this extra effort or are you saying, well, you paid me already, all fine, so I work this over-time for free. - You don't, and why do you expect ZOS to do over-time for free just because you paid for the game already.
What bothers is me is this piece meal buy over and over thing. That isn't buy to play it is micro transaction free to play stuff.
I repeat, if I could have the convenience of owning those features in my game without having to re-purchase stuff over and over I would buy the convenience DLC pack. They way they are doing dyes and barber shop is like If I bought the imperial race but in order to customize it or If I deleted it, I lose it and have to repurchase the race.
when they announced the crafting bag they stated clearly it will be ESO+ exclusive - what does this tell you?- it means, you will not get it without to subscribe. And they said it early on - long before the bags were actually available. Now there is another exclusive perk - the freedom to use the dying system like we have it on armors as well for costumes - and guess what, there are more exclusive perks to be expected in future - so if you want these exclusive stuffs/features, you have to sub, if you don't, you won't get it. What is is so hard to understand with the meaning of the word "exclusive"?
What is so hard for you to understand about paying for the feature when it is delivered and not paying a subscription based on promises of things to come from a company with no morals and a history of scamming its customers?
the word "exclusive" made the decision easy - but I stated in a thread at that time as well, that I expect them to be really useful, and if they would not be useful, I would never spend another dime on the game - and the bag turned out to be awesome, even more than I would have expected. I thought they would do it well, so I had faith into it, simply because I saw that it would be THE ARGUMENT for a subscription if done really well - so I expected it to be good, but it was even better.
stop and actually listen to what I am saying instead of simply regurgating what you heard and how it makes you feel.
I don't care for the I'm a subscription game. No I'm buy to pay. No I'm buy to pay but you only get the full experience if you subscribe. But wait for that to happen until after people opted to buy content instead of subscribe.
You are looking at it as what the subscription gives you. I'm looking at it from the aspect of what they can take from me and hide behind a pay wall after taking my money previously based on a ever changing pay system.
You can do as you please of course, I am done explaining, you won't change your mind and I won't either. So I stop, as you wish, arguing with you about the matter.
Good I don't need or desire your explanation of how it is. I'm calling for how it should be be if ZOS doesn't want to see their income start to wane.0 -
Niastissa✭✭✭SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Niastissa except they're "hiding" costume dying behind a "pay wall." Costume dying. Something the game has gone years without and would continue perfectly fine without. It in no way impacts any gameplay, character progression, anything. A lot of people would never even think about costume dying.
If they hid a 6th skill slot behind a paywall, then you could have a legitimate complaint. But this is costume dying...
Edit because if you don't read the last part like the Allen Iverson "Practice" rant, you're doing it wrong.
I'm not looking at the cosmetics. I'm looking at the bag. I'm looking at the trend and reports of what is to come.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »This "Scam" you Niastissa are complaining about is standard business practice.
Lets look at the BIGGEST game in the MMO Market WOW.
1. Buy Game, Pay Sub to Play purchased game.
2. Buy Expansion, Pay Sub to Play purchased game as well as Expansion
ESO
1. Play base game free, Buy Expansion Play Free
And/or
2. Pay sub get all content + perks
ESO's Scam seems to be better than WOW, which is standard business practice for MMO's.
If they had stuck to the subscription model when they released the console and charged for the expansion (better have been full expansions) that would have been fine.
My major complaint is they broke from that and said either or and both are equal. Now buying the DLC is not equal but it's too late they got the money of all the suckers who bought the expansion but who will now be forced to subscribe especially when they put in the new champion point restriction and gimp every non subscriber to be to weak to compete.
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CherryCake✭✭✭✭✭
✭I cant understand people that complained you get nothing with ESO plus.
10% xp is not something extra?
The ability to play any DLC at your wish plus receive monthly crowns that later on you can use to buy that DLC if you want to unsub or costumes etc, is not something good? Those people complain that non subscribers want everything for free and that subscribers get nothing, so you tell me that getting any extra gaming content as a subscriber its not "something"?
I like sweetrolls and I cannot lie1 -
Mordenkainen✭✭✭✭Hmm.. I could see myself maybe.. maaaaaaybe mildly annoyed by the Subscription requirement. I am one of those people who just buy the DLCs to enjoy the full game and the occasional thingy from the store if I like it. Honestly, really depends on the dyes. I rarely use costumes to begin with, hence the long 'maybe' up there.
What would drive me crazy though is to see Legates Black among the dyes.
I'd actually sub for this again, just because I never ever have seen how that damn dye looks like since I'm poop at PvP and don't play it often to begin with. So.. call it scientific interest, if you want. Lmao.Edited by Mordenkainen on June 25, 2016 9:18AM0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mordenkainen wrote: »Hmm.. I could see myself maybe.. maaaaaaybe mildly annoyed by the Subscription requirement. I am one of those people who just buy the DLCs to enjoy the full game and the occasional thingy from the store if I like it. Honestly, really depends on the dyes. I rarely use costumes to begin with, hence the long 'maybe' up there.
What would drive me crazy though is to see Legates Black among the dyes.
I'd actually sub for this again, just because I never ever have seen how that damn dye looks like since I'm poop at PvP and don't play it often to begin with. So.. call it scientific interest, if you want. Lmao.
You can only use the dyes you have unlocked.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
Niastissa✭✭✭
[snip]Towerdragon wrote: »ESO plus members complained that the sub was not worth it for minor progression bonus ZoS listened and have started giving ESO plus members what the asked for. Life is not fair and I have said it before investors dont really care able someone who randomly puts cash down in the store the sub is a much more concrete proof that the game is healthy. If you don't like it you have three options.
1. Sub to the game and get the bonuses
2. Play the game without the perks (something ESO plus members have done for 2 years)
3. Stop playing the game
These are all very simple choices. ZoS want people to sub that's the catch.
I already said I subscribed. I paid for six months. However I am quite upset at the unethical way ZOS is going about this.
I'm allowed to voice my dissatisfaction and if ZOS is smart they will listen because there are more people who think like me then like you in the game then on the forums. If ZOS doesn't want to hemorrhage players they need to start respecting us.
[snip]
[edited for inappropriate content]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on June 25, 2016 4:04PM1 -
CherryCake✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Niastissa no you arent allowed to show any dissatisfaction towards ZOS, if you do you are just a crying peasant like the rest of us unsubs that spent a lot of money on the game, but dont deserve the most basic things that many games include by default.I like sweetrolls and I cannot lie2 -
petraeus1✭✭✭✭I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.
A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.
This idea is even better!Edited by petraeus1 on June 25, 2016 9:48AM0 -
Thavie✭✭✭✭Towerdragon wrote: »ESO plus is what keeps the lights on at ZoS so yes subs should be treated better than people who just buy stuff on thecrown store
Why? I'm not subsciber, but I put in the game A LOT of money, buying all DLCs and things from store every month. I have 9k crowns and now what? I need to pay for sub just to dye my costume like I want?! How I'm not a supporter if I pay for this game?"We grew under a bad sun"1 -
Niastissa✭✭✭@Talyena
Boo boo. Make sure to forget you are talking about renting month to month. Subscribers who pay for six month blocks pay $77. They also get 9000 crowns. So if the crowns are $40 for 5500 over half of the subscription fee is included crowns.
You do lose from having to sub after buying DLC. You are paying for the same features twice.
I'd be happy if ZOS removed the perpetual licenses and credited purchasers with the exact amount of crowns the DLC cost and simply went back to the subscription model.
Alternatively I would also be happy if they went to the traditional model where you have to buy the DLC and subscribe and made all the smartass kids pay for the DLC too so I could listen to them wail for a while and I can thumb my noses at them in return
Edited by Niastissa on June 25, 2016 10:11AM4
haha! This discussion has been closed.