Wow costume dyes require crown store or ESO plus ?

Leandor

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

As much as I understand your point and frustration, the sub is purely optional. I believe it's right to reward those who pay monthly, for however long. Plus, they are purely cosmetic and have no bearing on gameplay

@Cazzy and Everyone Else (not to be taken as yelling)

In context this is specific to Xbox One ESO Plus still not working and Matt F saying ESO Plus wouldn't be required for future game updates. It actually does have game bearing as the dyes are unlocked by in-game achievements but now these are locking out customers only to require a sub.

That's going back on their word

That is utter nonsense. From the very beginning of B2P, it was stated that there will be perks in addition to dlc access given to subscribers. Please just stop your crusade, it lacks any kind of foundation and is getting quite boring.

Lysette

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

You do not loose the made changes to your costumes or the crafting bag when the subscription ends - you just do not have full functionality anymore. The bag will still be there, but you will no longer have all of it's comfortable features, but you will still have freed space in your inventory and bank - and by this got additional space, you can just no longer add items to this space, but just retrieve from there. Your dyed costumes will keep their colors, you will just no longer be able to make changes to it, as long as you stay un-subbed.

So this is not really something you cannot get, if you are willing to pay anything for the service. And it just has to be paid once, you basically buy the ability to use it in full for 30 days and after that in a limited way - for a one time fee.

Solid_Metal

funny....how this thread still in heat debat even tho this very feature is completely unecessary and uneeded to gameplay, completely cosmetic purposes

if its crafting bag i can understand, its very convinience, but this??, really?

Izaki

Can we dye costumes with ESO+ ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?! No way ?! How could I have missed this ? Is it working on xbox ?..

Izaki

ADarklore wrote: »

No weapon dying!!! WHY is this such a big deal for them to implement. They said they've had "many heated discussions" about this... why the heat?!? PLAYERS WANT IT... just because some staff at ZOS doesn't, doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented. Since when does what ZOS want override what the MAJORITY of paying players want?!? Why is ZOS being so stubborn about this? Let players 'play how they want'!!

Well, its kinda obvious, rubedite is red right ? The sword made from that material should be the same colour..! Plus some motifs and some non-crafted weapons have their own colors. Otherwise you'd see people running with bright yellow/green swords in a TES environment, it would look kinda wierd right ?

Lysette

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Can we dye costumes with ESO+ ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?! No way ?! How could I have missed this ? Is it working on xbox ?..

It comes in august - watch the live show from yesterday https://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/74304741

petraeus1

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members, and that the Style Parlor and Costume Dyeing system are Crown Store updates rather than 'Base game patch', or only Base Game patch for ESO+ members, so people don't get confused. Lest people who aren't following ZOS' every move make wrong assumptions.

Lysette

petraeus1 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The loyalty rewards that come with each DLC - like the new personality coming with Shadows of the Hist - have no other reason than showing our appreciation for you either buying the DLC or being an ESO Plus member. You can argue that these are not exactly "for free" since they are linked to a DLC achievement but they are nothing that we have to do - we don't even advertise them that much.

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members.

You should see the fact, that you spending crowns means nothing to ZOS - If you will spend them or not is irrelevant to them, because they made the money with it already, it is just interesting for them, if it makes you want to buy more crowns or to buy more of their services. You could have tens of thousands of crowns sitting there, and it would not matter - because ZOS got the money for those already. If it does not make you buy more in future, it is not relevant if you have spent those or not seen from their perspective. What matters to ZOS is if you are likely to spend more real money on services - if you don't, they could care less.

And it is not true, that costumes would not by dyable for non-subscribers - they are, using dye stamps, which will be separately available in the crown store with preset color schemes.

Towerdragon

petraeus1 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members, and that the Style Parlor and Costume Dyeing system are Crown Store updates rather than 'Base game patch', or only Base Game patch for ESO+ members, so people don't get confused. Lest people who aren't following ZOS' every move make wrong assumptions.

You can dye if your a non ESO plus member you just don't get to select the colors they are pre-determined you choose not to sub good for you. be glad they did not make dyeing armor an ESO plus exclusive either

Lysette

You see base game patch in a strange way - it does not mean that all what is a base game patch would have to be free. It just means, that DLC access is not required to use these features, what as well does not mean that these would have to come for free. You get the base game patch for free, but not necessarily the features coming with it.Well, actually you get the DLC content as well for free in your download, just not the access to it ingame, without to have unlocked the DLC or being subscribed.

Van_0S

@Lysette

No offence! But we don't like this kind of behavior ZO$ is proud of/ happy with. Other MMO games at least try their best to balance classes, if not lags.
Have you seen the zerg trains in cyro , its becoming worst everyday!

I won't accept my self to be a sheep for
Slaughter.

This is how ZO$ is behaving like the Thalmor.
https://youtu.be/jWq9PZ_PB-0

petraeus1

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The loyalty rewards that come with each DLC - like the new personality coming with Shadows of the Hist - have no other reason than showing our appreciation for you either buying the DLC or being an ESO Plus member. You can argue that these are not exactly "for free" since they are linked to a DLC achievement but they are nothing that we have to do - we don't even advertise them that much.

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members.

You should see the fact, that you spending crowns means nothing to ZOS - If you will spend them or not is irrelevant to them, because they made the money with it already, it is just interesting for them, if it makes you want to buy more crowns or to buy more of their services. You could have tens of thousands of crowns sitting there, and it would not matter - because ZOS got the money for those already. If it does not make you buy more in future, it is not relevant if you have spent those or not seen from their perspective. What matters to ZOS is if you are likely to spend more real money on services - if you don't, they could care less.

And it is not true, that costumes would not by dyable for non-subscribers - they are, using dye stamps, which will be separately available in the crown store with preset color schemes.

I meant: at a dye station. I can totally see casual players hearing there's costume dyeing and then buying a costume, run up to a dye station and getting disappointed.

And sure, money I've already spent doesn't matter to them, but that's not relevant to me. I want to have the feeling I get bang for my buck, instead of getting nickled and dimed. And I'm not the only one, the forum upheaval shows. Rather than making me interested in buying more Crowns, I'm inclined to buy less Crowns, if forecasts suggests long-requested features become Crown Store exclusive.

It's a matter of giving and taking. I gave ZOS my hand by buying Crowns, now I feel like they're trying to take my arm. That doesn't make me give them my arm, it makes me take my arm back.

I have no degree in any of this, but isn't part of succesful marketing just that: creating goodwill and giving customers the impression they're getting bang for their buck?

That's what this discussion boils down to: ZOS is successfully convincing ESO+ members are getting bang for their buck, while non-ESO+ members feel like they're getting nickle and dimed. I'd argue that's not what ZOS wants.

Either way, I don't really care for ZOS' business perspective. I simply don't like the system for reasons I've already explained. I'll leave it at that.

Lysette wrote: »

You see base game patch in a strange way - it does not mean that all what is a base game patch would have to be free. It just means, that DLC access is not required to use these features, what as well does not mean that these would have to come for free. You get the base game patch for free, but not necessarily the features coming with it.Well, actually you get the DLC content as well for free in your download, just not the access to it ingame, without to have unlocked the DLC or being subscribed.

I bought the base game, therefore I assume base game updates are free. I don't know if it's my interpretation or ZOS' phrasing.

Lysette

Van_0S wrote: »

@Lysette

No offence! But we don't like this kind of behavior ZO$ is proud of/ happy with. Other MMO games at least try their best to balance classes, if not lags.
Have you seen the zerg trains in cyro , its becoming worst everyday!

I won't accept my self to be a sheep for
Slaughter.

This is how ZO$ is behaving like the Thalmor.
https://youtu.be/jWq9PZ_PB-0

I am on board with you as far as Cyrrodil lag goes - and I have given a couple of suggestions how to solve the problem as well in many threads. This has nothing to do with this thread's topic though.

Transairion

Feels like a really odd choice by Zenimax.


Cash gained by a few people subscribing VS Cash gained by everyone who spends Crowns buying costumes from the Crown store to dye?


Subscribers don't make a lot of money, it's why ESO went Buy to Play instead of staying Sub Only. It's why SWTOR stopped being Sub only. I can't understand the logic.

Lysette

petraeus1 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The loyalty rewards that come with each DLC - like the new personality coming with Shadows of the Hist - have no other reason than showing our appreciation for you either buying the DLC or being an ESO Plus member. You can argue that these are not exactly "for free" since they are linked to a DLC achievement but they are nothing that we have to do - we don't even advertise them that much.

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members.

You should see the fact, that you spending crowns means nothing to ZOS - If you will spend them or not is irrelevant to them, because they made the money with it already, it is just interesting for them, if it makes you want to buy more crowns or to buy more of their services. You could have tens of thousands of crowns sitting there, and it would not matter - because ZOS got the money for those already. If it does not make you buy more in future, it is not relevant if you have spent those or not seen from their perspective. What matters to ZOS is if you are likely to spend more real money on services - if you don't, they could care less.

And it is not true, that costumes would not by dyable for non-subscribers - they are, using dye stamps, which will be separately available in the crown store with preset color schemes.

I meant: at a dye station. I can totally see casual players hearing there's costume dyeing and then buying a costume, run up to a dye station and getting disappointed.

And sure, money I've already spent doesn't matter to them, but that's not relevant to me. I want to have the feeling I get bang for my buck, instead of getting nickled and dimed. And I'm not the only one, the forum upheaval shows. Rather than making me interested in buying more Crowns, I'm inclined to buy less Crowns, if forecasts suggests long-requested features become Crown Store exclusive.

It's a matter of giving and taking. I gave ZOS my hand by buying Crowns, now I feel like they're trying to take my arm. That doesn't make me give them my arm, it makes me take my arm back.

I have no degree in any of this, but isn't part of succesful marketing just that: creating goodwill and giving customers the impression they're getting bang for their buck?

That's what this discussion boils down to: ZOS is successfully convincing ESO+ members are getting bang for their buck, while non-ESO+ members feel like they're getting nickle and dimed. I'd argue that's not what ZOS wants.

Either way, I don't really care for ZOS' business perspective. I simply don't like the system for reasons I've already explained. I'll leave it at that.

Lysette wrote: »

You see base game patch in a strange way - it does not mean that all what is a base game patch would have to be free. It just means, that DLC access is not required to use these features, what as well does not mean that these would have to come for free. You get the base game patch for free, but not necessarily the features coming with it.Well, actually you get the DLC content as well for free in your download, just not the access to it ingame, without to have unlocked the DLC or being subscribed.

I bought the base game, therefore I assume base game updates are free. I don't know if it's my interpretation or ZOS' phrasing.

Well if you think, ESO+ is worth it, why are you that reluctant than to become a subscriber?- Wouldn't it be the natural step to go for what you deem desirable enough to even care to post in this thread - at least for a month, to make all the changes you want and then stay unsubbed again. This is an option as well, you do not have to stay subbed to enjoy those made changes. Your costumes will not revert those changes and become undyed again, when the subscription ends.

And yes, base game updates are free - what does not mean that using those updated features would have to be all free. Examples are, dyed costumes will stay dyed, crafting bag content will not cease to be when subscription ends - these are base game features and free, just not all of the features are free.

Clarkieson

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So more incentive to sub eh? Wonder what's next... No really I do wonder.

strange that you dont need a sub to get:

the extra load screens
the enhanced pve lag
the ui menu glitch (skills and group roles menu that appears out of nowhere)
the falling through the map bug
the mages guild quest not being able to advance after the first book of eyevea
invisible adds, enemy and friendly
broken wayshrines
the audio crackle glitch
the unusually long load screens
random fall damage
adds, enemies, players and engine guardians that can fly

ZOS would make a fortune if these were crown store purchase add ons

Lysette

Transairion wrote: »

Feels like a really odd choice by Zenimax.


Cash gained by a few people subscribing VS Cash gained by everyone who spends Crowns buying costumes from the Crown store to dye?


Subscribers don't make a lot of money, it's why ESO went Buy to Play instead of staying Sub Only. It's why SWTOR stopped being Sub only. I can't understand the logic.

The logic is simple - make subscription desirable - and that is what they do - to get more subscribers. subscribers are what they have wanted in the first place. Their original model did not work out, so they are using a different one now, which seem to work. They made an undesirable subscription into a desirable one - and they will add more perks to it, to get those as well, who are now not convinced that subscription is worth it. Eventually they will get to what they orignally wanted like this.

It would not make me wonder, if subscribers will get a couple of extra features when housing will come start of next year. Be prepared for perks that might be related to this as well. Housing is not essential to play the game, it is as well in the same category of luxury, convenience and cosmetic add-on.

Khenarthi

Clarkieson wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So more incentive to sub eh? Wonder what's next... No really I do wonder.

strange that you dont need a sub to get:

the extra load screens
the enhanced pve lag
the ui menu glitch (skills and group roles menu that appears out of nowhere)
the falling through the map bug
the mages guild quest not being able to advance after the first book of eyevea
invisible adds, enemy and friendly
broken wayshrines
the audio crackle glitch
the unusually long load screens
random fall damage
adds, enemies, players and engine guardians that can fly

ZOS would make a fortune if these were crown store purchase add ons

You did get poisons for free in the last update, yes?

Towerdragon

Transairion wrote: »

Feels like a really odd choice by Zenimax.


Cash gained by a few people subscribing VS Cash gained by everyone who spends Crowns buying costumes from the Crown store to dye?


Subscribers don't make a lot of money, it's why ESO went Buy to Play instead of staying Sub Only. It's why SWTOR stopped being Sub only. I can't understand the logic.

You bring up Swtor the game is horrible if you don't sub limiting dungeons runs to I think 3 or 5 a week , limitingaccess to pvp, making you pay for quick slot bars making you pay to unlock hide helmet feature. the list goes on subscribers are where the bulk of ZoS income comes from. if you can make people commit for 6 months that's usually a guarantee that they will be playing for 6 months. On top of the 9000 crowns you get for 6 months they want you to use them all and buy more ( which I have actually done from time to time) the real reason ESO made the sub optional was to appeal to console players most likely.

petraeus1

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The loyalty rewards that come with each DLC - like the new personality coming with Shadows of the Hist - have no other reason than showing our appreciation for you either buying the DLC or being an ESO Plus member. You can argue that these are not exactly "for free" since they are linked to a DLC achievement but they are nothing that we have to do - we don't even advertise them that much.

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members.

You should see the fact, that you spending crowns means nothing to ZOS - If you will spend them or not is irrelevant to them, because they made the money with it already, it is just interesting for them, if it makes you want to buy more crowns or to buy more of their services. You could have tens of thousands of crowns sitting there, and it would not matter - because ZOS got the money for those already. If it does not make you buy more in future, it is not relevant if you have spent those or not seen from their perspective. What matters to ZOS is if you are likely to spend more real money on services - if you don't, they could care less.

And it is not true, that costumes would not by dyable for non-subscribers - they are, using dye stamps, which will be separately available in the crown store with preset color schemes.

I meant: at a dye station. I can totally see casual players hearing there's costume dyeing and then buying a costume, run up to a dye station and getting disappointed.

And sure, money I've already spent doesn't matter to them, but that's not relevant to me. I want to have the feeling I get bang for my buck, instead of getting nickled and dimed. And I'm not the only one, the forum upheaval shows. Rather than making me interested in buying more Crowns, I'm inclined to buy less Crowns, if forecasts suggests long-requested features become Crown Store exclusive.

It's a matter of giving and taking. I gave ZOS my hand by buying Crowns, now I feel like they're trying to take my arm. That doesn't make me give them my arm, it makes me take my arm back.

I have no degree in any of this, but isn't part of succesful marketing just that: creating goodwill and giving customers the impression they're getting bang for their buck?

That's what this discussion boils down to: ZOS is successfully convincing ESO+ members are getting bang for their buck, while non-ESO+ members feel like they're getting nickle and dimed. I'd argue that's not what ZOS wants.

Either way, I don't really care for ZOS' business perspective. I simply don't like the system for reasons I've already explained. I'll leave it at that.

Lysette wrote: »

You see base game patch in a strange way - it does not mean that all what is a base game patch would have to be free. It just means, that DLC access is not required to use these features, what as well does not mean that these would have to come for free. You get the base game patch for free, but not necessarily the features coming with it.Well, actually you get the DLC content as well for free in your download, just not the access to it ingame, without to have unlocked the DLC or being subscribed.

I bought the base game, therefore I assume base game updates are free. I don't know if it's my interpretation or ZOS' phrasing.

Well if you think, ESO+ is worth it, why are you that reluctant than to become a subscriber?- Wouldn't it be the natural step to go for what you deem desirable enough to even care to post in this thread - at least for a month, to make all the changes you want and then stay unsubbed again. This is an option as well, you do not have to stay subbed to enjoy those made changes. Your costumes will not revert those changes and become undyed again, when the subscription ends.

And yes, base game updates are free - what does not mean that using those updated features would have to be all free. Examples are, dyed costumes will stay dyed, crafting bag content will not cease to be when subscription ends - these are base game features and free, just not all of the features are free.

I know how ESO+ works, but thanks again for advertising it. I did not say I think ESO+ is worth it, I said ZOS convinced ESO+ members it's worth it. I'm personally not interested in all the perks of ESO+. To pay 15$ for the one perk I'm interested in, is not something I'm willing to do.

What I want is to get bang for my buck. I was interested in a lot of costumes, but 700-1000 Crowns is a lot of buck. I hoped Costume Dyeing would allow me to get more bang, but now it seems it also requires more buck. Ergo the stalemate continues: I don't feel like I'm getting bang, ZOS ain't getting my buck.

I've proposed a solution, which hardly requires a rework of the system in its current outlook. ESO+ members still get their new perk, there's still the Crown Store option, but buying expensive costumes gives you a little more bang for your buck because you get a one time shot at choosing the colour scheme.

I'm repeating myself, so I'll show myself out.

Edit: considering Guild Wars 2 doesn't have a sub fee, their system is very friendly. You can dye whatever costume you buy from the Gem Store and you can get transmutation charges in-game which are basically a transmog system in addition to buying them from the Gem Store. That game is also B2P (F2P now, don't know how it works since HoT). Good bang for buck. In fact, you can exchange in-game gold for their store currency.

We can talk for ages about how other games do it, that's not what I want, just giving an example of where I am coming from.

MacCait

Personally I am excited about this, but then I subbed even when there wasn't a huge need to. For me subbing makes sense. I think they are doing well with adding more incentives to sub. I have been in other games where you have no choice but to sub, and you get nothing for it other than being able to barely play the game... so these announcements are great imo

Clarkieson

Khenarthi wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So more incentive to sub eh? Wonder what's next... No really I do wonder.

strange that you dont need a sub to get:

the extra load screens
the enhanced pve lag
the ui menu glitch (skills and group roles menu that appears out of nowhere)
the falling through the map bug
the mages guild quest not being able to advance after the first book of eyevea
invisible adds, enemy and friendly
broken wayshrines
the audio crackle glitch
the unusually long load screens
random fall damage
adds, enemies, players and engine guardians that can fly

ZOS would make a fortune if these were crown store purchase add ons

You did get poisons for free in the last update, yes?

yes and tons of new bugs and glitches that subs have to pay for, monthly. quality product. (giggles)

Towerdragon

Clarkieson wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So more incentive to sub eh? Wonder what's next... No really I do wonder.

strange that you dont need a sub to get:

the extra load screens
the enhanced pve lag
the ui menu glitch (skills and group roles menu that appears out of nowhere)
the falling through the map bug
the mages guild quest not being able to advance after the first book of eyevea
invisible adds, enemy and friendly
broken wayshrines
the audio crackle glitch
the unusually long load screens
random fall damage
adds, enemies, players and engine guardians that can fly

ZOS would make a fortune if these were crown store purchase add ons

You did get poisons for free in the last update, yes?

yes and tons of new bugs and glitches that subs have to pay for, monthly. quality product. (giggles)

Welcome to the world of MMO's

Lysette

petraeus1 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

The loyalty rewards that come with each DLC - like the new personality coming with Shadows of the Hist - have no other reason than showing our appreciation for you either buying the DLC or being an ESO Plus member. You can argue that these are not exactly "for free" since they are linked to a DLC achievement but they are nothing that we have to do - we don't even advertise them that much.

Lysette wrote: »

.

petraeus1 wrote: »

I don't like the system either, not because I don't think ESO+ warrants more perks, but simply because this is a double paywall on character customization. A lot of costumes are already quite pricey at 700 Crowns, and to have to pay additional money to change their colour scheme simply results in me not buying any costumes.

A solution could be that upon selecting any costume in the Crown Store, a selection of say 5 versions in different colour schemes are available for purchase for the standard price. I imagine another window popping up and players being able to scroll through the various colourizations of the same costume. Changing the colour scheme afterwards will still cost Crowns or a subscription fee, but it would at least build in some choice in the initial purchase.

Forztr wrote: »

What they should have done is have a token which you could use to dye a costume using your unlocked dyes. When you buy a costume you get a free one. Additional ones available from the crown store.

This idea is even better!

Well you can buy this color change with full freedom like you describe it for a one time fee - it is called a 1-month subscription, cost 15 bucks and you get exactly what you want - you have even 30 days to choose your colors and on top of it you will as well get the crafting bag and access to all DLCs, which you have not purchased yet as well and that is not even all, you get on top of it 1500 crowns to spend on whatever you might want as well - so sub for a month, problem solved.

Thanks for advertising services, but that is not a good solution.

I am not interested in subbing, nor in the 1500 Crowns, nor in the crafting bag, I am interested in spending the Crowns I have already purchased. I only have 700 Crowns. I see a costume I like, but ZOS decided the default colours are pink and yellow. A dye bucket thing that marginally resembles my preferred colour scheme costs 200 Crowns extra, which I don't have. There's a dye system in-game, and as a new player I assume I can go there to dye my newly bought costume. Oops: gotta subscribe!

This selling upon sales doesn't sit well with me at all. Reminds me of salesmen that come to my door every so often with unbelievable deals. I don't want to pay for every little step of the way: I purchased your goods already, didn't I? If my initial purchase cost of a costume doesn't warrant a colour change, as I said, I simply won't buy any costumes. Which is odd, because I assumed this whole system was intended to sell MORE costumes. Heh.

I hope ZOS makes it really clear in the Crown Store that costumes aren't dyeable for non-ESO+ members.

You should see the fact, that you spending crowns means nothing to ZOS - If you will spend them or not is irrelevant to them, because they made the money with it already, it is just interesting for them, if it makes you want to buy more crowns or to buy more of their services. You could have tens of thousands of crowns sitting there, and it would not matter - because ZOS got the money for those already. If it does not make you buy more in future, it is not relevant if you have spent those or not seen from their perspective. What matters to ZOS is if you are likely to spend more real money on services - if you don't, they could care less.

And it is not true, that costumes would not by dyable for non-subscribers - they are, using dye stamps, which will be separately available in the crown store with preset color schemes.

I meant: at a dye station. I can totally see casual players hearing there's costume dyeing and then buying a costume, run up to a dye station and getting disappointed.

And sure, money I've already spent doesn't matter to them, but that's not relevant to me. I want to have the feeling I get bang for my buck, instead of getting nickled and dimed. And I'm not the only one, the forum upheaval shows. Rather than making me interested in buying more Crowns, I'm inclined to buy less Crowns, if forecasts suggests long-requested features become Crown Store exclusive.

It's a matter of giving and taking. I gave ZOS my hand by buying Crowns, now I feel like they're trying to take my arm. That doesn't make me give them my arm, it makes me take my arm back.

I have no degree in any of this, but isn't part of succesful marketing just that: creating goodwill and giving customers the impression they're getting bang for their buck?

That's what this discussion boils down to: ZOS is successfully convincing ESO+ members are getting bang for their buck, while non-ESO+ members feel like they're getting nickle and dimed. I'd argue that's not what ZOS wants.

Either way, I don't really care for ZOS' business perspective. I simply don't like the system for reasons I've already explained. I'll leave it at that.

Lysette wrote: »

You see base game patch in a strange way - it does not mean that all what is a base game patch would have to be free. It just means, that DLC access is not required to use these features, what as well does not mean that these would have to come for free. You get the base game patch for free, but not necessarily the features coming with it.Well, actually you get the DLC content as well for free in your download, just not the access to it ingame, without to have unlocked the DLC or being subscribed.

I bought the base game, therefore I assume base game updates are free. I don't know if it's my interpretation or ZOS' phrasing.

Well if you think, ESO+ is worth it, why are you that reluctant than to become a subscriber?- Wouldn't it be the natural step to go for what you deem desirable enough to even care to post in this thread - at least for a month, to make all the changes you want and then stay unsubbed again. This is an option as well, you do not have to stay subbed to enjoy those made changes. Your costumes will not revert those changes and become undyed again, when the subscription ends.

And yes, base game updates are free - what does not mean that using those updated features would have to be all free. Examples are, dyed costumes will stay dyed, crafting bag content will not cease to be when subscription ends - these are base game features and free, just not all of the features are free.

I know how ESO+ works, but thanks again for advertising it. I did not say I think ESO+ is worth it, I said ZOS convinced ESO+ members it's worth it. I'm personally not interested in all the perks of ESO+. To pay 15$ for the one perk I'm interested in, is not something I'm willing to do.

What I want is to get bang for my buck. I was interested in a lot of costumes, but 700-1000 Crowns is a lot of buck. I hoped Costume Dyeing would allow me to get more bang, but now it seems it also requires more buck. Ergo the stalemate continues: I don't feel like I'm getting bang, ZOS ain't getting my buck.

I've proposed a solution, which hardly requires a rework of the system in its current outlook. ESO+ members still get their new perk, there's still the Crown Store option, but buying expensive costumes gives you a little more bang for your buck because you get a one time shot at choosing the colour scheme.

I'm repeating myself, so I'll show myself out.

Edit: considering Guild Wars 2 doesn't have a sub fee, their system is very friendly. You can dye whatever costume you buy from the Gem Store and you can get transmutation charges in-game which are basically a transmog system in addition to buying them from the Gem Store. That game is also B2P (F2P now, don't know how it works since HoT). Good bang for buck.

Actually that would be a good idea - a one time recolor option coming with any costume would pretty much make the complains stop, I guess. I see your point now. I personally would still stay subscribed, because I like the perspective of being able to recolor my costimes whenever I want to and that might be often - just to have something different every day or every other day. To me that is an important feature which I will use often - it is not essential to play the game, but it is something what will let me enjoy the game even more.

Clarkieson

Towerdragon wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So more incentive to sub eh? Wonder what's next... No really I do wonder.

strange that you dont need a sub to get:

the extra load screens
the enhanced pve lag
the ui menu glitch (skills and group roles menu that appears out of nowhere)
the falling through the map bug
the mages guild quest not being able to advance after the first book of eyevea
invisible adds, enemy and friendly
broken wayshrines
the audio crackle glitch
the unusually long load screens
random fall damage
adds, enemies, players and engine guardians that can fly

ZOS would make a fortune if these were crown store purchase add ons

You did get poisons for free in the last update, yes?

yes and tons of new bugs and glitches that subs have to pay for, monthly. quality product. (giggles)

Welcome to the world of MMO's

i did wonder what this game was thank you for pointing that out. i thought it was GTA: Medieval, on a budget 6

Niastissa

@Petros don't bother trying to explain it to Towerdragon he won't listen.

Clearly at this point think of the game as subscription required. DOn't spend money on the DLC anymore. use the crowns they give you for other things. Resist the urge to buy crowns since it is now stacked on top of the cost of the subscription.

This guy won't listen. He cheers when then game gets more expensive.

arkansas_ESO

Khenarthi wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So more incentive to sub eh? Wonder what's next... No really I do wonder.

strange that you dont need a sub to get:

the extra load screens
the enhanced pve lag
the ui menu glitch (skills and group roles menu that appears out of nowhere)
the falling through the map bug
the mages guild quest not being able to advance after the first book of eyevea
invisible adds, enemy and friendly
broken wayshrines
the audio crackle glitch
the unusually long load screens
random fall damage
adds, enemies, players and engine guardians that can fly

ZOS would make a fortune if these were crown store purchase add ons

You did get poisons for free in the last update, yes?

If they had made poisons only available to subs, that would have been blatantly P2W. Hell, I and a good amount of others didn't even want poisons in the first place.

ADarklore

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

No weapon dying!!! WHY is this such a big deal for them to implement. They said they've had "many heated discussions" about this... why the heat?!? PLAYERS WANT IT... just because some staff at ZOS doesn't, doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented. Since when does what ZOS want override what the MAJORITY of paying players want?!? Why is ZOS being so stubborn about this? Let players 'play how they want'!!

Well, its kinda obvious, rubedite is red right ? The sword made from that material should be the same colour..! Plus some motifs and some non-crafted weapons have their own colors. Otherwise you'd see people running with bright yellow/green swords in a TES environment, it would look kinda wierd right ?

Seriously? You make this argument against weapon dying and yet we can dye... wait for it... METAL ARMOR! You know, the SAME EXACT MATERIAL that our weapons are made from... yet we can dye the metal armor but not the metal weapons. Yeah, that makes logical sense... somewhere... just not in my world.

Elsonso

Van_0S wrote: »

But this is a B2P game!. I don't mind these kind of things to be there for a F2P game.
Just look at barbershop! We have to purchase real money to get those changes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274575/no-barber-shop-confirmed#latest

In this B2P game, expect to pay real currency for character customization. It will be either directly with Crowns or via ESO Plus. This is no secret, it is the stated purpose of the store. Would it be nice of them to do something that does not require real Currency? Yup. Don't expect it to happen.

They do need to be careful what they put in the store, but this mostly applies to convenience, not customization. The crafting Bag of Holding, in any form, and "level boosters" could kill the subscription adoption if it found its way to the store.

Doncellius wrote: »

You won't find many people here who are reasonable when it comes to this topic. On the forums, practically everyone is subbed. This is one of few topics where our forums do not represent the in-game community.

I can only speak for PC NA, but last I cared, ESO Plus was the majority in the game, outside of the starting zones. This was a few months ago. With the Bag of Holding, probably not less, now.

Given that "unsubbed" is popular with the forum, this surprised me.

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Can we dye costumes with ESO+ ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?! No way ?! How could I have missed this ? Is it working on xbox ?..

It is important to note that, in addition to it coming in August, you only get to change costumes not disguises or polymorphs.

Transairion wrote: »

Feels like a really odd choice by Zenimax.


Cash gained by a few people subscribing VS Cash gained by everyone who spends Crowns buying costumes from the Crown store to dye?


Subscribers don't make a lot of money, it's why ESO went Buy to Play instead of staying Sub Only. It's why SWTOR stopped being Sub only. I can't understand the logic.

It has nothing to do with subscriptions vs. cash store as a business model, it has to do with the number of people using each option. I think the subscription model they have today is doing quite well, in addition to the Cash Store. It may even be making more money than the cash store, when you consider only non-subscrIber use of the cash store. The brilliance, if you will, of what ZOS is doing is getting players to subscribe and buy more Crowns. This is one reason why I think ZOS should increase the monthly Crown allotment from 1500 to something closer to 1750 or 2000. I think it is possible that it will attract new subscribers into a honey pot that encourages more spending in the store that, over time, will result in more Crown sales.

CherryCake

Niastissa wrote: »

This guy won't listen. He cheers when then game gets more expensive.

THIS.

So many people. They KNOW how gready this company has become and they like it, wth people do you grow money on trees?
People are getting a bit strange on this forum to be honest... we ask for the most basic things that most games have to begin with, they implement it after years of constant begging, for real money and making it clear for the beginning that they dont care about non subs, and people on the forums go "awwww thank you Zos, omg Zos you are so good to us" what the......heck?

Mark my words, they also started to bring out dungeons only if you buy them, I give it two years until this game becomes fully buy to play or pay to win.