Grao wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Smolt wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Smolt wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Smolt wrote: »

I think it's intended. And it's a fun feature for small scale pvp! I really hope they don't remove it, and make pvp even more lame.

Somebody call a waaaaaambulance...

Lol. You really gonna play that card smolt? You gonna claim ignorance after Zos has stated its not intended? You've been playing this game long enough to know what's a bug and what's not. Your not new or a noob. Any shred of credibility is shot. Go back the sewers and gank lowbies cause that's all you do anyways.

Lol do I know you? And I've never discriminated against max level players, equal opportunity ganker here and I barely touch the sewers anymore... besides the daedra need protection. #daedriclivesmatter

Not sure what your petty personal attacks have do with leaping onto keep walls though. I've never seen any official statement by some declaring it to be an exploit, just forum warriors crying about it. I've never heard of anyone getting warned, banned, or suspended for it either and it's been there since the beginning.

That statement has been quoted in this thread. It's not very long, yet...

"The trouble with internet quotes is that it's very difficult to verify their authenticity". -Abraham Lincoln

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

If it's not intended and someone knowingly abuses a non intended mechanic, I'd say that's an exploit. Do you really need it spelled out for you by a ZOS official? Pretty sure I can find language in the tos that speaks to exploiting bugs. ZOS could ban you for this. Just because they haven't doesn't make it acceptable. Ignorance is no excuse especially for someone who has been playing as long as you and who knows the rules.

What other proof do you need? Mr. Lincoln...

is Ms. Folsom not a reliable authoritative source?

I am sorry, a game mechanics that has been around since the conception of the game two years ago and that has not so far been fixed can no longer be called 'unintended' and that Zenimax persists on this position while clearly being unable to fix is pathetic. They should just own up the bug until it is fixed. Also, they never made a public statement to the entire player base regarding this matter and until they do everyone is free to ignore it as players don't have the obligation to read the forums and hunt down posts that aren't even fixated at the top of the other threads.

Don't you think if they actually cared about the use of this abilities they'd have made an official statement in the website?

ZOS do own up the bug in the sense that (if I'm not mistaken) nobody's ever been banned for using the gap-closing exploit.
I used to think it was a privilege of the mighty DK to be able to dragon leap onto the inner keep.
When I learned it was an exploit, I stopped.

I can understand that many players do it without actually knowing they shouldn't.
Appropriate penalties in my view would be: 1) fair warning (reminder of ZOS statement via in-game email or game-master whisper); 2) incremental in-game fines (from 5000 to one gold mat to...).
Only repeating offenders in organized groups should be considered for banning, but I don't think they should even be perma-banned. It's a long-standing broken mechanic, the sentence can't be as harsh as cheaters using a third-party software.

At the end of the day, the issue is really that ZOS just don't police their game and don't communicate.
This in turn leads to players not respecting the game and other players.

Players who care and know it's an exploit shouldn't use gap-closers to enter keeps.
Players who know it's an exploit and still do it - well, you could just show more respect for a game you must like since you're playing it, and stop behaving like spineless, ill-behaved kids. You're just *****ing where you eat.
Ain't you good enough to get some legit AP?
/dishonor emote on your putrefying bodies.

What I mean by them owning up the bug is to simply state that its use is not an exploit. Seriously, the ability is called Take Flight and it has allowed for DKs to jump on top of walls for two years now, they can't fix it! I am absolutely sure they tried and failed, so why are they maintaining this as a 'unintended mechanics'? If they owned up to this bug and stopped trying to hide it, it would just become a normal strategy and Dks all would be free to use it.

The Charging through walls will likely be fixed as this was introduced with the DB expansion, but until it is fixed, wouldn't it be also better to simply allow the use of the skill as it is? Right now you can't try gap closing onto someone running to their keep spamming the door because you might end up 'exploiting' this bug... It is stupid and it only generates resentment and toxicity... Allow players to use the skills as they are in game instead of calling 'exploits'.

That, or at least send out a proper warning for the entire game base. ZOS has the ability to send emails to everyone, in game mail to everyone, make a 'stick' post in the forum where they declare all they consider exploits... They choose not to do it.

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed the video from the opening post of this discussion due to naming and shaming. We are aware of this bug. If you wish to report someone for exploiting you should use the report function in-game.

ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »

CE still working i saw speedhacker yesterday

Lenikus wrote: »

.... this thread has gone in for too long.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »

CE still working i saw speedhacker yesterday

CE is always going to work. The best you can hope for is reporting and getting the user banned. This is not something ZOS can stop unless they rewrite the entire game to work only server-side.

@clayandaudrey_ESO I think the game would have a little less action as a result. Sure we get rid of the cheaters in turn we also get more delay.

I think you missed the point.

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

What are you getting on about? go to the natch potes thread, the orginal message is there in black and white. I didn't edit ***. I'm editing my statements because what I want to say to you sympathizers the first time around would get me forum banned immediately. So I need to edit MY statements, after a few more sips of coffee.

And I'm not sure you actually know what critical thinking is at this point. You're describing a loop-hole that con-artist's use to get out of being labeled an exploiter as being reason to not fight the good fight here? first of all GG, second you're not thinking critically.

I realize that there are a few legitimate excuses, thanks Cpt. obvious. But clearly, as this thread shows there are those who will use these excuses to simply CON.

EDIT: here I'll even link it to you, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

I'm not entirely sure you understand the definition of critical thinking... I'll just leave this here for you, "Critical Thinking - the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

See the word objective? This is something I am able to be regarding this, as I am performing an objective analysis to point out why 90+% of the players are probably unaware that this is an exploit. You have already decided that anyone doing this is fully aware of it and is 100% unequivocally a cheater and must be punished. i.e. not objective.

And EVERYONE in game is fully aware they need siege to break down walls in order to enter a keep.
Saying....oh I thought these people was exempt from that mechanic out of feigned ignorance shouldnt be any defence what so ever.
These people are knowingly and intentionally avoiding the 'known acceptable' mechanics of entering an enemy keep.
ie intentionally sticking 2 fingers up at ZOS and doing it their way.
Deliberately employing skills in a way that was unintended...repeatedly...and in defiance when instructed by ZOS that entering a keep by any other means than sieging walls was not intended.

They think they are being clever..fine.
I hope their arrogance is rewarded.

Just a thought here, remember how animation cancelling wasn't an intended mechanic? It pretty much became not only accepted but endorsed by zos, maybe some of these things could, or even should, be seen in the same light, an unintended aspect that if legitimised could actually be an improvement?

Grao wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

What are you getting on about? go to the natch potes thread, the orginal message is there in black and white. I didn't edit ***. I'm editing my statements because what I want to say to you sympathizers the first time around would get me forum banned immediately. So I need to edit MY statements, after a few more sips of coffee.

And I'm not sure you actually know what critical thinking is at this point. You're describing a loop-hole that con-artist's use to get out of being labeled an exploiter as being reason to not fight the good fight here? first of all GG, second you're not thinking critically.

I realize that there are a few legitimate excuses, thanks Cpt. obvious. But clearly, as this thread shows there are those who will use these excuses to simply CON.

EDIT: here I'll even link it to you, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

I'm not entirely sure you understand the definition of critical thinking... I'll just leave this here for you, "Critical Thinking - the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

See the word objective? This is something I am able to be regarding this, as I am performing an objective analysis to point out why 90+% of the players are probably unaware that this is an exploit. You have already decided that anyone doing this is fully aware of it and is 100% unequivocally a cheater and must be punished. i.e. not objective.

And EVERYONE in game is fully aware they need siege to break down walls in order to enter a keep.
Saying....oh I thought these people was exempt from that mechanic out of feigned ignorance shouldnt be any defence what so ever.
These people are knowingly and intentionally avoiding the 'known acceptable' mechanics of entering an enemy keep.
ie intentionally sticking 2 fingers up at ZOS and doing it their way.
Deliberately employing skills in a way that was unintended...repeatedly...and in defiance when instructed by ZOS that entering a keep by any other means than sieging walls was not intended.

They think they are being clever..fine.
I hope their arrogance is rewarded.

Just a thought here, remember how animation cancelling wasn't an intended mechanic? It pretty much became not only accepted but endorsed by zos, maybe some of these things could, or even should, be seen in the same light, an unintended aspect that if legitimised could actually be an improvement?

@MuddledMuppet Well thats one way to get animator who possibly worked hours on the attack animations just to have them get skipped mad. IMHO I would quit on the spot the moment I heard this happened to my work.

But this is not the same thing its an oversight because they didn't expect anyone to go over the wall.

I am sorry, but this is not an oversight at all!!! Zenimax was well aware DK could jump walls because this was found out during Beta! ZOS also knew their new charge scripting was causing people to charge right through walls and doors! We warned them a moth ago in the PTS!

Well if this was happening to said beta how would developers know about unless people reported it and not abused it without knowing? It is called "Take Flight" one could assume they can jump practically anywhere so they thought it was a feature. I also believe this didn't come to light till now.

It was reported in Beta. And the Charging through walls was reported in the PTS. Zenimax chose to release the content as it is just like they chose to release Nightblades with about 40% of their abilities not working properly...

You do realize this game nearly died in its infancy because ZOS released it with so many reported bugs those playing and paying nicknamed the game ;payed beta testing', right? Sometimes the expression shows up in the forum because Zenimax still releases content with serious known bugs every large patch.

I must admit this is a habit they must break but other companies are guilty of this aswell. Question is what is the point of the PTS? ZOS if your going to just release it as is you might aswell not have a PTS! But theres also a saying "Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should" it applies to this bug its an oversight.

See, that is where we disagree. I believe that the act of releasing a skill knowing said skill is interacting differently than expected with the environment validates the skill's current behavior and I think Zenimax should just assume that stance until they fix the skill. It would then just become another mechanic of Cyrodiil to which people would adapt and that all sides would be free to use. Far less toxicity and silliness that way.

It is a completely different matter to use a hack to alter the numbers communicated by your PC to the servers. That is where I think Zenimax's focus on banning should be (and to be honest I think they are doing just that, ignoring those charging through walls and jumping on towers and going after people casting infinite meteors and all that stuff).

I mean, you can't even expect everyone in the game to know this skills are actually bugged, Zenimax hasn't sent in game notices (which they can do quite easily), they have not sent emails... They haven't even pinned a statement about this on their forums... You have to hunt down their posts...

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »

CE still working i saw speedhacker yesterday

CE is always going to work. The best you can hope for is reporting and getting the user banned. This is not something ZOS can stop unless they rewrite the entire game to work only server-side.