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To ZeniMax - I got 2 people to buy your game + crowns, and now I'm disappointed.
tnanever
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This post is about how disappointed I've become with my only character, a Sorcerer.
Since January 2016, I convinced two people to buy the game. Since I mostly play solo (a little pvp and some groups), I didn't realize just how bad sorcs were.
I got onto my girlfriend's laptop, (she plays templar), to kill an overland boss for her, and the gameplay was simply leagues above my sorc at the same level. She is a mediocre player and had moderate gear. I played as her templar some more and saw how easy the game was - big damage, big instant heals, god-like execute (I see why it's called Jesus Beam now) - basically easy-mode.
My other friend is a pretty good gamer in general, and was just annihilating everything by spamming some dragonknight buffs, wrecking blow, cleave, and reverse slash. I've read about how ridiculous wrecking blow was on these forums, but never saw it for myself until recently.
There is such an obvious discrepancy between sorc and templar/dragonknight (I don't have any experience with nightblade so I can't say), that I'm surprised this stuff has passed gameplay testing. I'm pretty disillusioned about the balance of gameplay in EOS now.
My suggestions for improvement (I'm sure there are many more valid ideas than I have listed here):
Increase Mage's Fury base damage by ~25%
Sorc needs at least one reliable continuous attack skill, and with such a low execution threshold (20% is a joke compared to the 50% of other skills), it should have higher base damage.
Increase Lightning Splash's base radius by ~35% (increases further 50% with lightning flood)
Unless you're fighting something completely stationary, it's basically a wasted cast. Please make it more viable.
Reduce Bolt Escape cost by 50%
Why was it increased so much in the first place? I can charge with a weapon skill repeatedly without punishing rising costs. At least reduce the base cost.
Implement durations for summoned creatures
As far as I know, other classes don't have to keep the same skill on multiple bars. This is just bad design, because the summoned creatures are so obviously weak - they don't justify requiring multiple bar slots. Either vastly increase the creatures' attack power (I'm thinking like 200 - 300%), or make them temporary effects that can be cast at will (they should still be a bit stronger, even in this case).
The same problem exists for bound armor. Either make it a temporary effect that doesn't require multiple bar slots, or significantly increase it's effectiveness.
Dark Exchange
I really want to like this skill, except...it needs to either be instant, or at least a .5 second cast time. The animation is too long, and can easily be accidentally interrupted by blocking too early (this is a real problem because if you're healing, you're likely on the defensive to begin with). Maybe give it a 2-second cooldown in exchange for it being instant-cast - but then again, maybe no cooldown, because even light armor Annulment can be case instantly repeatedly, or Templar's Rushed Ceremony. Dark Exchange just sucks right now.
Rune Prison
It's just a bit too weak to take up a slot on the bar. Maybe add a slow or short stun after it ends? Make it somehow useful even if the target breaks out of it, or is immune. Maybe add minor breach...really, anything to make it less useless on an immunity (especially in PvE vs boss monsters) or break-free.
Since January 2016, I convinced two people to buy the game. Since I mostly play solo (a little pvp and some groups), I didn't realize just how bad sorcs were.
I got onto my girlfriend's laptop, (she plays templar), to kill an overland boss for her, and the gameplay was simply leagues above my sorc at the same level. She is a mediocre player and had moderate gear. I played as her templar some more and saw how easy the game was - big damage, big instant heals, god-like execute (I see why it's called Jesus Beam now) - basically easy-mode.
My other friend is a pretty good gamer in general, and was just annihilating everything by spamming some dragonknight buffs, wrecking blow, cleave, and reverse slash. I've read about how ridiculous wrecking blow was on these forums, but never saw it for myself until recently.
There is such an obvious discrepancy between sorc and templar/dragonknight (I don't have any experience with nightblade so I can't say), that I'm surprised this stuff has passed gameplay testing. I'm pretty disillusioned about the balance of gameplay in EOS now.
My suggestions for improvement (I'm sure there are many more valid ideas than I have listed here):
Increase Mage's Fury base damage by ~25%
Sorc needs at least one reliable continuous attack skill, and with such a low execution threshold (20% is a joke compared to the 50% of other skills), it should have higher base damage.
Increase Lightning Splash's base radius by ~35% (increases further 50% with lightning flood)
Unless you're fighting something completely stationary, it's basically a wasted cast. Please make it more viable.
Reduce Bolt Escape cost by 50%
Why was it increased so much in the first place? I can charge with a weapon skill repeatedly without punishing rising costs. At least reduce the base cost.
Implement durations for summoned creatures
As far as I know, other classes don't have to keep the same skill on multiple bars. This is just bad design, because the summoned creatures are so obviously weak - they don't justify requiring multiple bar slots. Either vastly increase the creatures' attack power (I'm thinking like 200 - 300%), or make them temporary effects that can be cast at will (they should still be a bit stronger, even in this case).
The same problem exists for bound armor. Either make it a temporary effect that doesn't require multiple bar slots, or significantly increase it's effectiveness.
Dark Exchange
I really want to like this skill, except...it needs to either be instant, or at least a .5 second cast time. The animation is too long, and can easily be accidentally interrupted by blocking too early (this is a real problem because if you're healing, you're likely on the defensive to begin with). Maybe give it a 2-second cooldown in exchange for it being instant-cast - but then again, maybe no cooldown, because even light armor Annulment can be case instantly repeatedly, or Templar's Rushed Ceremony. Dark Exchange just sucks right now.
Rune Prison
It's just a bit too weak to take up a slot on the bar. Maybe add a slow or short stun after it ends? Make it somehow useful even if the target breaks out of it, or is immune. Maybe add minor breach...really, anything to make it less useless on an immunity (especially in PvE vs boss monsters) or break-free.
8
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I like the snare idea on rune prison, but wouldn't that make it like encase? Besides, defensive rune is certainly worth slotting.
I agree with everything else, except that shields can use a small duration buff, six seconds doesn't work, and the nullify Magicka morph of the light armor shield can be pumped higher than either morph of conjured ward.Edited by Minalan on June 9, 2016 6:24PM1 -
Leiloni✭✭✭I have a Sorc alt and my biggest issue is just design issues, not lack of dps or anything. Too many of the skills are just not fun to use. I like Sorcs in other games, but there's just so much about this one I don't like and it makes me sad.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really want to disagree with you, I wanna come up with some points where sorcs excel at...
I'm sorry, I want to, but just can't
Edit: I got something! Look at how much better at being Templar you are! Especially compared to someone whom has started as a templar! It's like weight training and you just took the weights off!Edited by Waffennacht on June 9, 2016 7:04PM4 -
tnanever✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I really want to disagree with you, I wanna come up with some points where sorcs excel at...
I'm sorry, I want to, but just can't
Edit: I got something! Look at how much better at being Templar you are! Especially compared to someone whom has started as a templar! It's like weight training and you just took the weights off!
Damn, good analogy. Playing templar felt like I was cheating.3 -
LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....2
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InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »I really want to disagree with you, I wanna come up with some points where sorcs excel at...
I'm sorry, I want to, but just can't
Edit: I got something! Look at how much better at being Templar you are! Especially compared to someone whom has started as a templar! It's like weight training and you just took the weights off!
the answer is:
you can feel awesome now. that's something.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome since it’s difficult to do.
Furthermore, according to the Wrobler they adjusted hurricane and it has nowCool new FX!
Feel happy my fellow sorcs, we have nothing to complain about.
We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR8 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
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tnanever✭✭✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to justify how strong templar are right now? Terrible logic. Just because a class used to be weak (assuming it's even true), doesn't justify it being too strong now - but that's not what I'm saying anyway. I'd rather sorcerer be improved than have a good class (templar) destroyed.
EDIT: I should add, this isn't only about PvP, but that's certainly an important area. Also, 1v1 isn't the only or most important aspect of PvP.
EDIT2: I see from your signature that your main character is a templar. Gee, I wonder if you have some sort of bias.Edited by tnanever on June 9, 2016 9:32PM1 -
KundaliniHero✭✭✭Dear tnanever,
On behalf of Zenimax, Inc. I would like to thank you for your recent purchase. I want to assure you that we have committed our top minds here to discussing all of your concerns in depth. We cherish your loyalty to our product and want you to have confidence in the fact that every one of your dollars is being wisely allocated to our flaming hot cheetos fund. This guarantees that we'll be able to drown out your logical nonsense with the crunching of these adorable little red feces shaped corn snacks. Also you'll be pleased to know that the president of Zenimax, Inc. himself has showed immense interest in your feedback and has personally been using it as a napkin to get all of that artificial red sh*t off of his fingers. We urge you to contact us if you should have any additional concerns as we will be more than pleased to shower you with non-detailed, vague answers. Thank you!
Forever yours,
Zenimax, Inc.
PS Dark Brotherhood is coming - Adventure awaits! Explore the world of the Dark Brotherhood, where danger and mediocre quests abound. The excitement will feel familiar like you've done it many times before, this is because you have, but don't worry our NPC's which all look exactly alike, will help you cope when that wave of boredom washes over you. The most anticipated mundane experience awaits the adventurers of Tamriel, Get it today!!
@ZOS_Racheal @ZOS_GinaBruno @WrobelEdited by KundaliniHero on June 9, 2016 11:02PM5 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭
What do you mean by nullify magicka morph being pumped higher?I like the snare idea on rune prison, but wouldn't that make it like encase? Besides, defensive rune is certainly worth slotting.
I agree with everything else, except that shields can use a small duration buff, six seconds doesn't work, and the nullify Magicka morph of the light armor shield can be pumped higher than either morph of conjured ward.
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lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So just because soloing a world boss was easier on a templar than on a sorc, you think that there is imbalance? And you think wrecking blow is rediculous?
Then tell me why hasn't there been a single person using wrecking blow in any of my groups that managed to get good spots on the leaderboard since thieves guild launch? And why do I get on the weekly msa leaderboard as templar just for completing it while other classes have to beat it with a certain score?
Sure not all classes are equal, but currently the balance is not too bad. DKs and Templars can deal more damage, but require melee fights with not too much movement. Nbs and sorcs deal a bit less damage, but they have instant cast skills to use from range while also having easy access to a speed buff.0 -
tnanever✭✭✭lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »So just because soloing a world boss was easier on a templar than on a sorc, you think that there is imbalance? And you think wrecking blow is rediculous?
Then tell me why hasn't there been a single person using wrecking blow in any of my groups that managed to get good spots on the leaderboard since thieves guild launch? And why do I get on the weekly msa leaderboard as templar just for completing it while other classes have to beat it with a certain score?
Sure not all classes are equal, but currently the balance is not too bad. DKs and Templars can deal more damage, but require melee fights with not too much movement. Nbs and sorcs deal a bit less damage, but they have instant cast skills to use from range while also having easy access to a speed buff.
Nope. Not talking about just one world boss. My Dragon knight's friend whole leveling experience. The gigantic damage and healing numbers from the templar. I was better at combat within 10 minutes of templar than my whole time as sorc. It's simply damage and healing numbers - they're bigger and easier to get.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »So just because soloing a world boss was easier on a templar than on a sorc, you think that there is imbalance? And you think wrecking blow is rediculous?
Then tell me why hasn't there been a single person using wrecking blow in any of my groups that managed to get good spots on the leaderboard since thieves guild launch? And why do I get on the weekly msa leaderboard as templar just for completing it while other classes have to beat it with a certain score?
Sure not all classes are equal, but currently the balance is not too bad. DKs and Templars can deal more damage, but require melee fights with not too much movement. Nbs and sorcs deal a bit less damage, but they have instant cast skills to use from range while also having easy access to a speed buff.
Nope. Not talking about just one world boss. My Dragon knight's friend whole leveling experience. The gigantic damage and healing numbers from the templar. I was better at combat within 10 minutes of templar than my whole time as sorc. It's simply damage and healing numbers - they're bigger and easier to get.
It's no use to try to speak with the ones that mains other classes, they just want sorcs to be super nerfed so they can get easy kills in cyrodiil etc. All the people I know have switched away from sorcs this patch or just quite the game entirely, even people that used to run them in trials etc just because they're just bad now.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Sure, I wan't them super nerfed. Thats also why I prefer to have a raid with 4 sorcs, 2dks and 2 templars as dps over any combination of those classes that contains less than 4 sorcs. The only reason why you don't see that many sorcs in trials is the fact that magicka nbs can do similar damage from range while healing everyone.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »So just because soloing a world boss was easier on a templar than on a sorc, you think that there is imbalance? And you think wrecking blow is rediculous?
Then tell me why hasn't there been a single person using wrecking blow in any of my groups that managed to get good spots on the leaderboard since thieves guild launch? And why do I get on the weekly msa leaderboard as templar just for completing it while other classes have to beat it with a certain score?
Sure not all classes are equal, but currently the balance is not too bad. DKs and Templars can deal more damage, but require melee fights with not too much movement. Nbs and sorcs deal a bit less damage, but they have instant cast skills to use from range while also having easy access to a speed buff.
Nope. Not talking about just one world boss. My Dragon knight's friend whole leveling experience. The gigantic damage and healing numbers from the templar. I was better at combat within 10 minutes of templar than my whole time as sorc. It's simply damage and healing numbers - they're bigger and easier to get.
It's no use to try to speak with the ones that mains other classes, they just want sorcs to be super nerfed so they can get easy kills in cyrodiil etc. All the people I know have switched away from sorcs this patch or just quite the game entirely, even people that used to run them in trials etc just because they're just bad now.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »I really want to disagree with you, I wanna come up with some points where sorcs excel at...
I'm sorry, I want to, but just can't
Edit: I got something! Look at how much better at being Templar you are! Especially compared to someone whom has started as a templar! It's like weight training and you just took the weights off!
Nice one... XDWaffennacht wrote: »I really want to disagree with you, I wanna come up with some points where sorcs excel at...
I'm sorry, I want to, but just can't
Edit: I got something! Look at how much better at being Templar you are! Especially compared to someone whom has started as a templar! It's like weight training and you just took the weights off!
Damn, good analogy. Playing templar felt like I was cheating.
And then you go play a stamina DK and learn how a god feels like ^^0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.0 -
mildlylucid✭✭✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
From a PvE experience me and 3 friends all picked different classes when we started playing this game and my sorc friend can solo most of the nonvet group dungeons whereas my templar friend has a lot more trouble and can't solo as many dungeons. Could be that one is just a better player but I think sorcs have the best soloing potential.
Another day, another deathtrap.
PC | NA | CP: 690+
Main: Littlewill (50) - Khajiit Dragonknight Tank
Alts:Bajzhli-do (50) - Khajiit Stamina Dragonknight DPS
Tlanir Dro'flayn (23) - Dunmer Magicka Nightblade DPS
Morgayne Dalodrel (21) - Breton Magicka Templar Healer
Tumande Stormwatch (20) - Altmer Magicka Sorcerer DPS
Tamdril Merilyn (5) - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight DPS
Bjorngrim Ingensen (5) - Nord Warden Tank
Gwynereth Bonecrusher (4) - Bosmer Stamina Warden DPS0 -
tnanever✭✭✭mildlylucid wrote: »willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
From a PvE experience me and 3 friends all picked different classes when we started playing this game and my sorc friend can solo most of the nonvet group dungeons whereas my templar friend has a lot more trouble and can't solo as many dungeons. Could be that one is just a better player but I think sorcs have the best soloing potential.
I'm betting your sorc friend is simply a much better player than you and your other friend. I can play my girlfriend's templar and immediately see how much easier things are.0 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
I saw someone rich today.So there's definitely no poverty.
Edited by Ankael07 on June 10, 2016 4:06AMIf you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.3 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭mildlylucid wrote: »willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
From a PvE experience me and 3 friends all picked different classes when we started playing this game and my sorc friend can solo most of the nonvet group dungeons whereas my templar friend has a lot more trouble and can't solo as many dungeons. Could be that one is just a better player but I think sorcs have the best soloing potential.
Non Vet dungeons are not a measure of how the class behaves in late game PvE. Also, if your friend is not on PC than he hasn't experienced the changes made to the class.0 -
Elder_Martin✭✭✭I recently switched to a Stamina Sorcerer and while I die about the same amount as my Magicka Sorcerer in PvP, I have a lot more fun with it. Try switching up your builds. Heck, you can even be a Tank Sorcerer too, because according to Wrobel there are a lot of them.I am the real Mudcrab Merchant.
Gamertag - Elder Martin0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to justify how strong templar are right now? Terrible logic. Just because a class used to be weak (assuming it's even true), doesn't justify it being too strong now - but that's not what I'm saying anyway. I'd rather sorcerer be improved than have a good class (templar) destroyed.
EDIT: I should add, this isn't only about PvP, but that's certainly an important area. Also, 1v1 isn't the only or most important aspect of PvP.
EDIT2: I see from your signature that your main character is a templar. Gee, I wonder if you have some sort of bias.
The guy said Templars have always been the "Win button" of ESO which is just untrue. I am not trying to justify anything with current balance now because Templars are fine. Some class builds still annihilatevus but now we have a fighting chance. Mag sorcs definately got more balanced and are now beatable, but I guess you like being OP. Stam sorcs got a bit of love which was very much needed.
I feel like the balance overall is better now than it was before.
1v1 isn't the only aspect but it is the best indicator of balance between classes and builds.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to point out my bias when your entire thread about your class is one big bias.
Sorcs are doing just fine and templars are not currently OP. If you feel otherwise you should probably reevaluate your experiences and seek out improvement.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
That's exactly what the OP and the guy I responded to was saying; that templars are OP and easy to play.
Similar level to NBs? I still see stamblades excelling past what a Templar can achieve, albeit at a smaller degree than before.
I can only state what I see, laugh if you want. I didn't know that EVERY PvP guild agreed on this. If you're going to make such a claim then I will just counter it by saying that might be true but that there are still more sorcs around than templars and by your logic that must mean sorcs are better.
In truth I can't sympasize with you sorcs because your class is still good and nowhere near at the *** level templars were for one and a half year, where during that period mag sorcs were *** beasts. Other classes and builds just got brought up to the same level so the balance is better. That is a good thing.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
I saw someone rich today.So there's definitely no poverty.
NA logic?1 -
Ipslor✭✭✭1. Make Mage's Wrath our spammable. Make one morph channeling lightning spell like J-Beam but with BZZZZT BZZZT ZZAP lightning, with execute range say 25%. Make other morph either short-range stamina insta-cast or magicka PBAoE.
2. Rework Surge, remove heals (they are too small anyway) and add Surge Charges counter, when you cast Storm Calling ability while Surge is active you gain 1 charge, when you get 10 charges they unleashes and damaging enemies in front of you, like the cool lightniong spells some NPC using (that electic bugs in Auridon?). Or give Surge while active a chance to proc lightning bolt when you cast SC ability.
3. Ball Lighning morph of Streak? No one using it. Make it gap-closer with 28m range and target required, with small Shock dmg on arrival or short stun. It may even be Stamina ability.
Imagine how much funnier Sorc class may be with changes like this. And they are just an example. Make our class fun to play again.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to justify how strong templar are right now? Terrible logic. Just because a class used to be weak (assuming it's even true), doesn't justify it being too strong now - but that's not what I'm saying anyway. I'd rather sorcerer be improved than have a good class (templar) destroyed.
EDIT: I should add, this isn't only about PvP, but that's certainly an important area. Also, 1v1 isn't the only or most important aspect of PvP.
EDIT2: I see from your signature that your main character is a templar. Gee, I wonder if you have some sort of bias.
The guy said Templars have always been the "Win button" of ESO which is just untrue. I am not trying to justify anything with current balance now because Templars are fine. Some class builds still annihilatevus but now we have a fighting chance. Mag sorcs definately got more balanced and are now beatable, but I guess you like being OP. Stam sorcs got a bit of love which was very much needed.
I feel like the balance overall is better now than it was before.
1v1 isn't the only aspect but it is the best indicator of balance between classes and builds.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to point out my bias when your entire thread about your class is one big bias.
Sorcs are doing just fine and templars are not currently OP. If you feel otherwise you should probably reevaluate your experiences and seek out improvement.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
That's exactly what the OP and the guy I responded to was saying; that templars are OP and easy to play.
Similar level to NBs? I still see stamblades excelling past what a Templar can achieve, albeit at a smaller degree than before.
I can only state what I see, laugh if you want. I didn't know that EVERY PvP guild agreed on this. If you're going to make such a claim then I will just counter it by saying that might be true but that there are still more sorcs around than templars and by your logic that must mean sorcs are better.
In truth I can't sympasize with you sorcs because your class is still good and nowhere near at the *** level templars were for one and a half year, where during that period mag sorcs were *** beasts. Other classes and builds just got brought up to the same level so the balance is better. That is a good thing.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
I saw someone rich today.So there's definitely no poverty.
NA logic?
If sorcs are so OP, then why in a poll where a guy asked which class he should be was magicka sorc the only one without a single vote while magplars got the second most with stam DK first? xDR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to justify how strong templar are right now? Terrible logic. Just because a class used to be weak (assuming it's even true), doesn't justify it being too strong now - but that's not what I'm saying anyway. I'd rather sorcerer be improved than have a good class (templar) destroyed.
EDIT: I should add, this isn't only about PvP, but that's certainly an important area. Also, 1v1 isn't the only or most important aspect of PvP.
EDIT2: I see from your signature that your main character is a templar. Gee, I wonder if you have some sort of bias.
The guy said Templars have always been the "Win button" of ESO which is just untrue. I am not trying to justify anything with current balance now because Templars are fine. Some class builds still annihilatevus but now we have a fighting chance. Mag sorcs definately got more balanced and are now beatable, but I guess you like being OP. Stam sorcs got a bit of love which was very much needed.
I feel like the balance overall is better now than it was before.
1v1 isn't the only aspect but it is the best indicator of balance between classes and builds.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to point out my bias when your entire thread about your class is one big bias.
Sorcs are doing just fine and templars are not currently OP. If you feel otherwise you should probably reevaluate your experiences and seek out improvement.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
That's exactly what the OP and the guy I responded to was saying; that templars are OP and easy to play.
Similar level to NBs? I still see stamblades excelling past what a Templar can achieve, albeit at a smaller degree than before.
I can only state what I see, laugh if you want. I didn't know that EVERY PvP guild agreed on this. If you're going to make such a claim then I will just counter it by saying that might be true but that there are still more sorcs around than templars and by your logic that must mean sorcs are better.
In truth I can't sympasize with you sorcs because your class is still good and nowhere near at the *** level templars were for one and a half year, where during that period mag sorcs were *** beasts. Other classes and builds just got brought up to the same level so the balance is better. That is a good thing.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
I saw someone rich today.So there's definitely no poverty.
NA logic?
If sorcs are so OP, then why in a poll where a guy asked which class he should be was magicka sorc the only one without a single vote while magplars got the second most with stam DK first? xD
I didn't claim sorcs are OP now. I think they are fine. The only build I still think is overperforming in PvP are stamblades.
I don't know of that thread. Probably the same people who said stamplars were just fine the past one and a half year before they got buffed.
I tend to not follow the opinions of the masses on these forums because most times they are wrong.2 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to justify how strong templar are right now? Terrible logic. Just because a class used to be weak (assuming it's even true), doesn't justify it being too strong now - but that's not what I'm saying anyway. I'd rather sorcerer be improved than have a good class (templar) destroyed.
EDIT: I should add, this isn't only about PvP, but that's certainly an important area. Also, 1v1 isn't the only or most important aspect of PvP.
EDIT2: I see from your signature that your main character is a templar. Gee, I wonder if you have some sort of bias.
The guy said Templars have always been the "Win button" of ESO which is just untrue. I am not trying to justify anything with current balance now because Templars are fine. Some class builds still annihilatevus but now we have a fighting chance. Mag sorcs definately got more balanced and are now beatable, but I guess you like being OP. Stam sorcs got a bit of love which was very much needed.
I feel like the balance overall is better now than it was before.
1v1 isn't the only aspect but it is the best indicator of balance between classes and builds.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to point out my bias when your entire thread about your class is one big bias.
Sorcs are doing just fine and templars are not currently OP. If you feel otherwise you should probably reevaluate your experiences and seek out improvement.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
That's exactly what the OP and the guy I responded to was saying; that templars are OP and easy to play.
Similar level to NBs? I still see stamblades excelling past what a Templar can achieve, albeit at a smaller degree than before.
I can only state what I see, laugh if you want. I didn't know that EVERY PvP guild agreed on this. If you're going to make such a claim then I will just counter it by saying that might be true but that there are still more sorcs around than templars and by your logic that must mean sorcs are better.
In truth I can't sympasize with you sorcs because your class is still good and nowhere near at the *** level templars were for one and a half year, where during that period mag sorcs were *** beasts. Other classes and builds just got brought up to the same level so the balance is better. That is a good thing.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
I saw someone rich today.So there's definitely no poverty.
NA logic?
If sorcs are so OP, then why in a poll where a guy asked which class he should be was magicka sorc the only one without a single vote while magplars got the second most with stam DK first? xD
I didn't claim sorcs are OP now. I think they are fine. The only build I still think is overperforming in PvP are stamblades.
I don't know of that thread. Probably the same people who said stamplars were just fine the past one and a half year before they got buffed.
I tend to not follow the opinions of the masses on these forums because most times they are wrong.
And what about ingame where most sorcs have rerolled their class this patch because all other classes are easier to play for the same or better reward in terms of survivability, dps, utility etc? Are they all wrong too? xDR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
What are you trying to say? Are you trying to justify how strong templar are right now? Terrible logic. Just because a class used to be weak (assuming it's even true), doesn't justify it being too strong now - but that's not what I'm saying anyway. I'd rather sorcerer be improved than have a good class (templar) destroyed.
EDIT: I should add, this isn't only about PvP, but that's certainly an important area. Also, 1v1 isn't the only or most important aspect of PvP.
EDIT2: I see from your signature that your main character is a templar. Gee, I wonder if you have some sort of bias.
The guy said Templars have always been the "Win button" of ESO which is just untrue. I am not trying to justify anything with current balance now because Templars are fine. Some class builds still annihilatevus but now we have a fighting chance. Mag sorcs definately got more balanced and are now beatable, but I guess you like being OP. Stam sorcs got a bit of love which was very much needed.
I feel like the balance overall is better now than it was before.
1v1 isn't the only aspect but it is the best indicator of balance between classes and builds.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to point out my bias when your entire thread about your class is one big bias.
Sorcs are doing just fine and templars are not currently OP. If you feel otherwise you should probably reevaluate your experiences and seek out improvement.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
No one is saying Templars are overpowered, they are in similar level to DKs and Nightblades in most areas and are the better healers, while Nightblades are the best for PvP and DKs are the best for tanking. What we are saying is that sorcerers are not the best at anything, they are the class with the least forgiving rotation in PvE, the class with least reliable self heals and the only class with terrible toggles (some of which that we are forced to use). It all contributes to the most boring class to play.
Also, it is laughable that you say you see lots of unkillable sorcerers in PvP as there has been some serious notes by every PvP guild that the number of sorcerers around Cyrodiil has diminished quite considerably since the release of DB.
That's exactly what the OP and the guy I responded to was saying; that templars are OP and easy to play.
Similar level to NBs? I still see stamblades excelling past what a Templar can achieve, albeit at a smaller degree than before.
I can only state what I see, laugh if you want. I didn't know that EVERY PvP guild agreed on this. If you're going to make such a claim then I will just counter it by saying that might be true but that there are still more sorcs around than templars and by your logic that must mean sorcs are better.
In truth I can't sympasize with you sorcs because your class is still good and nowhere near at the *** level templars were for one and a half year, where during that period mag sorcs were *** beasts. Other classes and builds just got brought up to the same level so the balance is better. That is a good thing.willklippsteinb14_ESO wrote: »LOL Templars have always been the "Win Button" Of ESO. So totally understand how itd feel like "easy mode" Sorcs have always required abit of skill to play....whether you shield stacked or not....
Up until recently templar was the worst class for 1v1 in the game. Come back when you have more experience, knowledge and know what you are talking about.
To OP: I see lots of near unbeatable magic sorcs roaming around in Cyrodiil every day so there is definately nothing wrong with your class.
I saw someone rich today.So there's definitely no poverty.
NA logic?
If sorcs are so OP, then why in a poll where a guy asked which class he should be was magicka sorc the only one without a single vote while magplars got the second most with stam DK first? xD
I didn't claim sorcs are OP now. I think they are fine. The only build I still think is overperforming in PvP are stamblades.
I don't know of that thread. Probably the same people who said stamplars were just fine the past one and a half year before they got buffed.
I tend to not follow the opinions of the masses on these forums because most times they are wrong.
And what about ingame where most sorcs have rerolled their class this patch because all other classes are easier to play for the same or better reward in terms of survivability, dps, utility etc? Are they all wrong too? xD
Please provide a link to the statistic supporting that claim.
Some classes do some things better than sorcs now sure.
They no longer have the survivability of a DK and Templar combined along with the burst of the NB.
The people rerolling their sorcs now are the people who are used to *** and now have to fight just as hard for it as many other builds, and those people will always aim for FotM (or should I say year?). You have to realize that many of the sorc players were rerollers from DKs and Templars back from before console launch because Sorc have been insanely strong since then along with stamblades. So they rerolled to Sorc back then because it was overperforming and now they will probably move to stamblade or something else. Those people do not stick with something if it requires effort to make it work and such they are not really a good demographic to base decisions on.
Let the pstch hit and let thing settle. Then in a month or two we will have a clearer view of where things are. But I do believe that sorcs are doing just fine, both stam and mag, this patch. Yes mag sorcs are comparatively performing worse this patch compared to last one but that was warranted since they were too strong. Only wondering why they didn't bring stamblades back in line too.
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