Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

Grao · May 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_MattFiror I know time is running short on this update and I just want to make one last plea with you guys and girls before I give up, forever. I love/loved this game and have basically only played my khajiit stam sorc since day 1 of early access.

There has been no net gain this patch cycle so far for stam sorc. We've gained some dmg through passives and passive abilities while losing out big time on our survivability thanks to the Surge nerfs. My only sorc skill that I will have to actively use is a 30 second buff ability that also replaces my favorite magicka dump ability. It is a complete and all around mess and there is so much good feedback out there that it is a damn shame the direction you are going.

Unfortunately I think the problem is that ZOS doesn't really have a direction they are going towards. They are just bumbling around buffing the few skills sorcerers have that won't affect PvP while nerfing the ones they get complains about from the PvP crowd.

Theyre trying to appeal to every class, every playstyle to maximize $$$. Nothing wrong wit that but its not classy just like how AoE Caps was another form of a paywall. You want to blow up zergs with your aoes? Ok buy our dlc, farm the gear, then you can blow everything up -.-

Well, they are failing at that too because sorcerers are pretty much the bottom of every role except in PvP. Our DPS both with stamina and magicka is the lowest out there, our healing relies heavily on a pet that has near to zero survivability and while tanking as a sorcerer is possible, every other class does it better.

STEVIL · May 2016

RoyJade wrote: »

A 3k hps in pve is totally useless. You can't survive with only this heal. Surge change was a pure pvp change, and now it's garbage for both aspect.
They have better damage, but they are still basic stamina user with more raw damage. That's not a definition of a "class". Wroebel says that sorc are lacking skill identity, it's even worse now.

Who said surge ever should be the only heal youll ever need?

Is that what sorcs need for "balance"? One click back bar never worry sbout healing?

Dont they also have their own shields, pet heals, exchange not to mention access to resto staff (scales off mag) or Rally (for stasorc)?

Is the GOAL to make surge the only heal sorcs need?

Grao · May 2016

Calboy wrote: »

OK that's it. My stam sorc has been respeced and my points have been allocated into crafting lines and nothing else. Poor Khajiit.

Poor Khajit indeed. My main is likely following the same path as a high elf sorcerer... Sigh.

Grao · May 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

A 3k hps in pve is totally useless. You can't survive with only this heal. Surge change was a pure pvp change, and now it's garbage for both aspect.
They have better damage, but they are still basic stamina user with more raw damage. That's not a definition of a "class". Wroebel says that sorc are lacking skill identity, it's even worse now.

Who said surge ever should be the only heal youll ever need?

Is that what sorcs need for "balance"? One click back bar never worry sbout healing?

Dont they also have their own shields, pet heals, exchange not to mention access to resto staff (scales off mag) or Rally (for stasorc)?

Is the GOAL to make surge the only heal sorcs need?

LOL... Just LOL.

Our Shields were nerfed and then offered to everyone.
Our pet's heals are very good indeed, unfortunately they are toggles with cast time and they die if you breath in their general direction.
Exchange... I am sorry, there are no words to how bad this skill is because of the cast time.
Wow, Resto Staves, speaking of lowering our already failling DPS even more.

Erock25 · May 2016

This is a stam sorc thread. Why are people bringing up shields and pet heals?

Tyrannitar · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Fingers crossed we continue to take shuffles in the right direction with tomorrows patch notes.

My hope is dwindling...

My hope is so low I expect zos to undo any progress made tomorrow and call it a buff...

So this happened

Tyrannitar · May 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

This is a stam sorc thread. Why are people bringing up shields and pet heals?

Yeah, and someone mentioned those in regard to pvp...

Stam sorcs rely solely on crit surge in pvp... like... I've seen some run magicka/ stam regen drinks so they can cc with bolt escape, but other than that and bound armaments.... we don't touch our skill trees

Grao · May 2016

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Fingers crossed we continue to take shuffles in the right direction with tomorrows patch notes.

My hope is dwindling...

My hope is so low I expect zos to undo any progress made tomorrow and call it a buff...

So this happened

That is ZOS for you.

Mettaricana · May 2016

They don't fix surge players gonna riot. I stam sorc since day one on pc and I have been getting bent over without being kissed virtually every update I watch the class die more and more I've had enough. If I could get a refund for this game I'd take it in a heartbeat. Because if I changed classes you'd just nerf that one as well... started day obe as a dk then came the dk nerf, went to be a nb then nb nerfed, then sorc no love for ages went to templar after it got dps options, suddenly dk buffed I go back then it gets nerfed again then for like 3 solid updates nb got all love, sorc got nerfed more.. now everyone gets love and sorc circles the drain...

Khaos_Bane · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

Because if I changed classes you'd just nerf that one as well... started day obe as a dk then came the dk nerf, went to be a nb then nb nerfed, then sorc no love for ages went to templar after it got dps options, suddenly dk buffed I go back then it gets nerfed again then for like 3 solid updates nb got all love, sorc got nerfed more.. now everyone gets love and sorc circles the drain...

This is relatively true for me as well. It's like they balance a class and make it fun, then F*** it over a few patches later, and I am getting tired of it as well. Hell, I'm not going to even say what class I enjoy playing now or it will get nerfed and completely F***** OVER !

Grao · May 2016

Mettaricana wrote: »

They don't fix surge players gonna riot. I stam sorc since day one on pc and I have been getting bent over without being kissed virtually every update I watch the class die more and more I've had enough. If I could get a refund for this game I'd take it in a heartbeat. Because if I changed classes you'd just nerf that one as well... started day obe as a dk then came the dk nerf, went to be a nb then nb nerfed, then sorc no love for ages went to templar after it got dps options, suddenly dk buffed I go back then it gets nerfed again then for like 3 solid updates nb got all love, sorc got nerfed more.. now everyone gets love and sorc circles the drain...

Players will riot and ZOS will ignore them just as much as they are ignoring our pleads in multiple threads already. We rioted when they broke negate too, it only took them 6 months to revisit the ultimate and decide to buff it a little.

RoyJade · May 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Who said surge ever should be the only heal youll ever need?

Is that what sorcs need for "balance"? One click back bar never worry sbout healing?

Dont they also have their own shields, pet heals, exchange not to mention access to resto staff (scales off mag) or Rally (for stasorc)?

Is the GOAL to make surge the only heal sorcs need?

We are speaking about stamina classes exclusively (even if we can say a lot of things about magsorc too).

DK have strong dot, great boost like reflect and major mending, really good passives, two stamina ultimate, good CC.
Nightblades have a full arsenal to do everything without weapon, plus good passives, good CC with fear and good abilities (cloak, merciless resolve…).
Templars have a good spammable ability, a good cc, some good bonuses and substain and even with that they aren't at the top.
Sorc… they have only a few useable passive (but one really good), no CC, no heal buff, no mitigation. Our triple core is mobility (not a lot, and TG patch + gap closer really hurt it), a toogle who cost two slot for a tiny 8% max stamina and 11+ damage to heavy attack (even with the 20% regen passive, nearly nobody slot it on pvp),and a good heal on hit, surge. Now, our only survivability tool has been further nerfed to the ground. What we got in exchange ? Nothing.

So yes. Stamsorc was the class who improve weapon attack, with great mobility and who are rewarded for an aggressive gameplay, and now we have nearly nothing else. We can drop surge, but give us a STRONG damage/utility boost against it, enough to be able to be, you know, competitive in endgame content.

Tyrannitar · May 2016

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it. Plain and simple. We're nerfed into oblivion and it's not changing. Blade and Soul here I come.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game. You're losing your actual player base by pandering to them with a flat-rate self heal that was already lackluster prior to this nerf. You're upping the cooldown to 1 second, rather than removing it like the community has suggested ever since you put one on it.

Grats on listening to PVE sorcs with the change to their shield...

But for a class you guys have promised a buff for our class for literally years.... You're killing this class.

We can't pull endgame dps and right now on live I'm THE easiest class to kill in cyrodiil.

(Not due to lack of skill. Even with my comparatively low dps, my hps and skill has enabled me to get to round 6 of vet maelstrom.. Still a work in progress, but by no means is this a case of "git gud")

My stam sorc is my main, and the only class I really enjoy the mechanics of. I've got a magicka nb and a stam dk (because you guys buff the hell out of them every patch... I guess that's what happens when the devs all play the same class and not a single one educates themselves on stam sorc.) but I don't enjoy them. Plain and simple.

Stam sorcs were about skill and reaction time. With this change to surge, they're nothing special whatsoever and their role can easily be replaced by a stam dk with a good rotation. They've got more DoTs and more damage mitigation and better heals. With the introduction of stam shields.... Stam sorc is so dead.

In pvp, we just got another vigor. I'm replacing surge WITH RALLY.

Read that again @wrobel. You just took away my spike heals. My reaction time heals.

I'm replacing my CLASS DEFINING SKILL. THE ONLY THING THAT MADE STAM SORC FEEL UNIQUE for rally.

You're ruining stam sorc, wrobel.

Give us an instant cast class single-target dps ability (no hurricane doesn't count even with implosion.)

Let crit surge scale based off of crit damage done like before, but remove the cooldown! Even pre-1.5 when there was no cooldown on stam sorcs, we were still getting rekt in pvp.

As is on live, I can light attack and flying blade on someone in pvp and get 5k health in less than a second on someone IN FULL IMPEN. I'll provide screenshots if necessary, but now crit surge is literally giving me back less hps than rally/ vigor in an actual fight.

As in, surge is now giving me about 2k hps in PVP and 7k hps in PVE.

That looks awesome if your weapon damage is below 3.2k and your crit rate below 60%.... AKA if you started playing a stam sorc right after the last expansion dropped.

If you're wearing golded out armor with robust agility rings, have been paying sub since beta, and buy almost every mount that drops.... 2k hps in PVP is laughable... But not in a funny way.

I could write another dissertation on why we're lacking in endgame PVE, but I'm in CSH and I straight up can't even get into a group for vMOL for a summary there.

We don't have good dps, we don't have good survivability, and we don't have a dev that plays our class. We're stuck, it seems.

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

Please PLEASE stop nerfing him. Look at the bolded lines if you guys are allergic to feedback like it seems.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2016

Well guys,

I don't really know that to say at this point. There is still a MAJOR disconnect between the development team and the people that play stamina sorcerer.

When you are on a stam DK, Nightblade or Templar, it just works. Class skills merge with weapon skills and the experience just feels fun. On a stam sorc, it just feels clunky.

If I had boil it down to one issue:

The class-based stamina sorcerer toolkit is still smaller and weaker than the class-based stamina toolkits of other classes.
Because of this, the performance, utility and adaptability (in Both PvP, and PvE) of every scarce skill and passive we do have becomes CRITICAL
Because of this, the every discussion of stam sorc eventually devolves into talking about CRITICAL surge

If stamina sorcerer had THREE class abilities that cost stam and did physical damage (like every other class has), then we wouldn't be in such a delicate situation.

The issues with crit surge were predictable. It's a tough skill to balance. If Crit surge becomes the pinnacle of stam sorc survivability and DPS, it becomes even more difficult to balance.

That's a tall order. Balancing it in both PvP and PvE, getting it to work with both direct damage and dots. Making it effective against damage shields and perma-blockers, and having it give decent heals in PvP without it being god-mode in PvE.

I just don't see anyway that crit surge, in its current form, is better than rally/vigor. With battle spirit affecting it now, its a lot worse.

Even I fall into the trap of talking about crit surge! I am sick of this ability at this point.

Even if there is a way to make crit surge perfect, stam sorc is still weak in stamina versatility and utility.
If the stam sorc toolkit relies completely on such a difficult ability to balance, then the toolkit is still broken.

Grao · May 2016

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it. Plain and simple. We're nerfed into oblivion and it's not changing. Blade and Soul here I come.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game. You're losing your actual player base by pandering to them with a flat-rate self heal that was already lackluster prior to this nerf. You're upping the cooldown to 1 second, rather than removing it like the community has suggested ever since you put one on it.

Grats on listening to PVE sorcs with the change to their shield...

But for a class you guys have promised a buff for our class for literally years.... You're killing this class.

We can't pull endgame dps and right now on live I'm THE easiest class to kill in cyrodiil.

(Not due to lack of skill. Even with my comparatively low dps, my hps and skill has enabled me to get to round 6 of vet maelstrom.. Still a work in progress, but by no means is this a case of "git gud")

My stam sorc is my main, and the only class I really enjoy the mechanics of. I've got a magicka nb and a stam dk (because you guys buff the hell out of them every patch... I guess that's what happens when the devs all play the same class and not a single one educates themselves on stam sorc.) but I don't enjoy them. Plain and simple.

Stam sorcs were about skill and reaction time. With this change to surge, they're nothing special whatsoever and their role can easily be replaced by a stam dk with a good rotation. They've got more DoTs and more damage mitigation and better heals. With the introduction of stam shields.... Stam sorc is so dead.

In pvp, we just got another vigor. I'm replacing surge WITH RALLY.

Read that again @wrobel. You just took away my spike heals. My reaction time heals.

I'm replacing my CLASS DEFINING SKILL. THE ONLY THING THAT MADE STAM SORC FEEL UNIQUE for rally.

You're ruining stam sorc, wrobel.

Give us an instant cast class single-target dps ability (no hurricane doesn't count even with implosion.)

Let crit surge scale based off of crit damage done like before, but remove the cooldown! Even pre-1.5 when there was no cooldown on stam sorcs, we were still getting rekt in pvp.

As is on live, I can light attack and flying blade on someone in pvp and get 5k health in less than a second on someone IN FULL IMPEN. I'll provide screenshots if necessary, but now crit surge is literally giving me back less hps than rally/ vigor in an actual fight.

As in, surge is now giving me about 2k hps in PVP and 7k hps in PVE.

That looks awesome if your weapon damage is below 3.2k and your crit rate below 60%.... AKA if you started playing a stam sorc right after the last expansion dropped.

If you're wearing golded out armor with robust agility rings, have been paying sub since beta, and buy almost every mount that drops.... 2k hps in PVP is laughable... But not in a funny way.

I could write another dissertation on why we're lacking in endgame PVE, but I'm in CSH and I straight up can't even get into a group for vMOL for a summary there.

We don't have good dps, we don't have good survivability, and we don't have a dev that plays our class. We're stuck, it seems.

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

Please PLEASE stop nerfing him. Look at the bolded lines if you guys are allergic to feedback like it seems.

I've been looking into Blade & Soul too! And you can actually play a summoner there that works! With a pet that looks nice too! >.>

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

I agree with that and right now it feels impossible for sorcerer, magicka, stamina, tank and healer... We are not good in any role.

Tyrannitar · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it. Plain and simple. We're nerfed into oblivion and it's not changing. Blade and Soul here I come.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game. You're losing your actual player base by pandering to them with a flat-rate self heal that was already lackluster prior to this nerf. You're upping the cooldown to 1 second, rather than removing it like the community has suggested ever since you put one on it.

Grats on listening to PVE sorcs with the change to their shield...

But for a class you guys have promised a buff for our class for literally years.... You're killing this class.

We can't pull endgame dps and right now on live I'm THE easiest class to kill in cyrodiil.

(Not due to lack of skill. Even with my comparatively low dps, my hps and skill has enabled me to get to round 6 of vet maelstrom.. Still a work in progress, but by no means is this a case of "git gud")

My stam sorc is my main, and the only class I really enjoy the mechanics of. I've got a magicka nb and a stam dk (because you guys buff the hell out of them every patch... I guess that's what happens when the devs all play the same class and not a single one educates themselves on stam sorc.) but I don't enjoy them. Plain and simple.

Stam sorcs were about skill and reaction time. With this change to surge, they're nothing special whatsoever and their role can easily be replaced by a stam dk with a good rotation. They've got more DoTs and more damage mitigation and better heals. With the introduction of stam shields.... Stam sorc is so dead.

In pvp, we just got another vigor. I'm replacing surge WITH RALLY.

Read that again @wrobel. You just took away my spike heals. My reaction time heals.

I'm replacing my CLASS DEFINING SKILL. THE ONLY THING THAT MADE STAM SORC FEEL UNIQUE for rally.

You're ruining stam sorc, wrobel.

Give us an instant cast class single-target dps ability (no hurricane doesn't count even with implosion.)

Let crit surge scale based off of crit damage done like before, but remove the cooldown! Even pre-1.5 when there was no cooldown on stam sorcs, we were still getting rekt in pvp.

As is on live, I can light attack and flying blade on someone in pvp and get 5k health in less than a second on someone IN FULL IMPEN. I'll provide screenshots if necessary, but now crit surge is literally giving me back less hps than rally/ vigor in an actual fight.

As in, surge is now giving me about 2k hps in PVP and 7k hps in PVE.

That looks awesome if your weapon damage is below 3.2k and your crit rate below 60%.... AKA if you started playing a stam sorc right after the last expansion dropped.

If you're wearing golded out armor with robust agility rings, have been paying sub since beta, and buy almost every mount that drops.... 2k hps in PVP is laughable... But not in a funny way.

I could write another dissertation on why we're lacking in endgame PVE, but I'm in CSH and I straight up can't even get into a group for vMOL for a summary there.

We don't have good dps, we don't have good survivability, and we don't have a dev that plays our class. We're stuck, it seems.

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

Please PLEASE stop nerfing him. Look at the bolded lines if you guys are allergic to feedback like it seems.

I've been looking into Blade & Soul too! And you can actually play a summoner there that works! With a pet that looks nice too! >.>

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

I agree with that and right now it feels impossible for sorcerer, magicka, stamina, tank and healer... We are not good in any role.

Yeah, and I hear their sorcerer has melee- mechanics!!! o_o

If only we did in ESO >.>

Grao · May 2016

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it. Plain and simple. We're nerfed into oblivion and it's not changing. Blade and Soul here I come.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game. You're losing your actual player base by pandering to them with a flat-rate self heal that was already lackluster prior to this nerf. You're upping the cooldown to 1 second, rather than removing it like the community has suggested ever since you put one on it.

Grats on listening to PVE sorcs with the change to their shield...

But for a class you guys have promised a buff for our class for literally years.... You're killing this class.

We can't pull endgame dps and right now on live I'm THE easiest class to kill in cyrodiil.

(Not due to lack of skill. Even with my comparatively low dps, my hps and skill has enabled me to get to round 6 of vet maelstrom.. Still a work in progress, but by no means is this a case of "git gud")

My stam sorc is my main, and the only class I really enjoy the mechanics of. I've got a magicka nb and a stam dk (because you guys buff the hell out of them every patch... I guess that's what happens when the devs all play the same class and not a single one educates themselves on stam sorc.) but I don't enjoy them. Plain and simple.

Stam sorcs were about skill and reaction time. With this change to surge, they're nothing special whatsoever and their role can easily be replaced by a stam dk with a good rotation. They've got more DoTs and more damage mitigation and better heals. With the introduction of stam shields.... Stam sorc is so dead.

In pvp, we just got another vigor. I'm replacing surge WITH RALLY.

Read that again @wrobel. You just took away my spike heals. My reaction time heals.

I'm replacing my CLASS DEFINING SKILL. THE ONLY THING THAT MADE STAM SORC FEEL UNIQUE for rally.

You're ruining stam sorc, wrobel.

Give us an instant cast class single-target dps ability (no hurricane doesn't count even with implosion.)

Let crit surge scale based off of crit damage done like before, but remove the cooldown! Even pre-1.5 when there was no cooldown on stam sorcs, we were still getting rekt in pvp.

As is on live, I can light attack and flying blade on someone in pvp and get 5k health in less than a second on someone IN FULL IMPEN. I'll provide screenshots if necessary, but now crit surge is literally giving me back less hps than rally/ vigor in an actual fight.

As in, surge is now giving me about 2k hps in PVP and 7k hps in PVE.

That looks awesome if your weapon damage is below 3.2k and your crit rate below 60%.... AKA if you started playing a stam sorc right after the last expansion dropped.

If you're wearing golded out armor with robust agility rings, have been paying sub since beta, and buy almost every mount that drops.... 2k hps in PVP is laughable... But not in a funny way.

I could write another dissertation on why we're lacking in endgame PVE, but I'm in CSH and I straight up can't even get into a group for vMOL for a summary there.

We don't have good dps, we don't have good survivability, and we don't have a dev that plays our class. We're stuck, it seems.

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

Please PLEASE stop nerfing him. Look at the bolded lines if you guys are allergic to feedback like it seems.

I've been looking into Blade & Soul too! And you can actually play a summoner there that works! With a pet that looks nice too! >.>

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

I agree with that and right now it feels impossible for sorcerer, magicka, stamina, tank and healer... We are not good in any role.

Yeah, and I hear their sorcerer has melee- mechanics!!! o_o

If only we did in ESO >.>

It does! I have a few friends that are playing it and it is really interesting! Sorcerers that actually do damage!

Tyrannitar · May 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Well guys,

I don't really know that to say at this point. There is still a MAJOR disconnect between the development team and the people that play stamina sorcerer.

When you are on a stam DK, Nightblade or Templar, it just works. Class skills merge with weapon skills and the experience just feels fun. On a stam sorc, it just feels clunky.

If I had boil it down to one issue:
The class-based stamina sorcerer toolkit is still smaller and weaker than the class-based stamina toolkits of other classes.

Because of this, the performance, utility and adaptability (in Both PvP, and PvE) of every scarce skill and passive we do have becomes CRITICAL

Because of this, the every discussion of stam sorc eventually devolves into talking about CRITICAL surge

If stamina sorcerer had THREE class abilities that cost stam and did physical damage (like every other class has), then we wouldn't be in such a delicate situation.

The issues with crit surge were predictable. It's a tough skill to balance. If Crit surge becomes the pinnacle of stam sorc survivability and DPS, it becomes even more difficult to balance.

That's a tall order. Balancing it in both PvP and PvE, getting it to work with both direct damage and dots. Making it effective against damage shields and perma-blockers, and having it give decent heals in PvP without it being god-mode in PvE.

I just don't see anyway that crit surge, in its current form, is better than rally/vigor. With battle spirit affecting it now, its a lot worse.

Even I fall into the trap of talking about crit surge! I am sick of this ability at this point.
Even if there is a way to make crit surge perfect, stam sorc is still weak in stamina versatility and utility.

If the stam sorc toolkit relies completely on such a difficult ability to balance, then the toolkit is still broken.

Seriously.... They nerfed us so hard we can't even pay attention to our paltry dps and lack of a cc anymore! They ripped out our foundation when we asked them to build a roof! It's pathetic what the devs are doing to the class, and the community is quite literally being ignored!

The bulk of people talking about crit surge non-stop are only doing so because they realize that ZoS won't pay attention to any griping unless they see it 50 thousand times. Unfortunately, alot of other stuff is going to be "swept under the rug". That's hellishly annoying because this was supposed to be the "stamina update".

Nah. Just the "stamina DK update."

They even made that one shield scale off of health instead of stamina now. We have no legs to stand on anymore, I just at least want the crutch that crit surge used to be back.

not to mention an instant-cast stam based single-target dps ability.

I still don't understand why crystal frags can't have a morph that follows the exact same functionality as the old wrecking blow.... Maybe giving minor force instead of major brutality to stick to the class's crit-theme.... Well, former crit theme.

I still don't understand why our already low survivability is getting nerfed.

There are so many problems with the class that all we can hope for by the 31st is for them to un**** the changes they've already made...

Aspi90 · May 2016

Damn, I barely played ESO the last 6 weeks cause as a stam player it is always the same, 2h and either Bow or SnB.
I was tired of using WB/Poisen Injection/Vigor/Rally/Executener/Shuffle/Caltrops/Crit Rush on nearly all my builds.

Then I read the first DB Patch Notes and was hyped for an interesting and different build on my Khajiit Sorc, I wanted to play ESO again when DB launches. With a stam Shield, with the new Surge and without the need to slot a 2H. Finally some new builds were possible.

And now Patch 2.4.3 arrives and I don´t see me playing ESO till the next update. Stam Shield is gone, Surge is now even worse to live and all mag classes have a shield. Uncrittable and all resistant Shields, so fun to fight against...
I may log in and have a look at the now even more OP stam DK, with the same old skill set...

iam117 · May 2016

@Yolokin_Swagonborn i was really hopeful for this thread to remain on target, you put alot of good effort in and started a good discussion, its a shame that people came in to badmouth the devs and turned it into a hate thread, weather they deserve it or not, its not constructive to any situation, and will really just insight the dev's to ignore anytime they are tagged here now.

either way, its still got some great ideas and info in it. there are so many sorc complaint threads now that are purpose driven for complaint. its a shame they are bleeding into places meant to hold direct and constructive (pro/con) criticism that can be mature at the same time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_MattFiror hope you guys dont discount the rest of the thread just because people want to *** (for stars see adjective used as verb for "female dog") everywhere

Grao · May 2016

liv3mind wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn i was really hopeful for this thread to remain on target, you put alot of good effort in and started a good discussion, its a shame that people came in to badmouth the devs and turned it into a hate thread, weather they deserve it or not, its not constructive to any situation, and will really just insight the dev's to ignore anytime they are tagged here now.

either way, its still got some great ideas and info in it. there are so many sorc complaint threads now that are purpose driven for complaint. its a shame they are bleeding into places meant to hold direct and constructive (pro/con) criticism that can be mature at the same time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_MattFiror hope you guys dont discount the rest of the thread just because people want to *** (for stars see adjective used as verb for "female dog") everywhere

I do agree, we should be constructive and we try. We give suggestions, theoricraft for hours, test things on the PTS for them. That time we dedicate to helping them (ZOS) should grat us at least some response. Instead if has granted us nerfs.

[Edit to remove discussing moderator action]

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2016

liv3mind wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn i was really hopeful for this thread to remain on target, you put alot of good effort in and started a good discussion, its a shame that people came in to badmouth the devs and turned it into a hate thread, weather they deserve it or not, its not constructive to any situation, and will really just insight the dev's to ignore anytime they are tagged here now.

Yeah I agree, as tired as I am and as frustrated as I am -even at this point. The anger at the devs does nothing. Go on the general forums and express it there.

This is still the PTS board, and its not for general venting, raving and ranting!

@ZOS_DaryaK Thanks for making a presence in this thread. Please remove or (preferably) edit any post on this thread that is not helping advance the discussion. I realize there will be some collateral damage but again, there is always the general forums for anger and gripes. I ask anyone in this thread to be patient with the moderation team. I am usually all for non-censorship and all but this thread ceases to be helpful when insults and gripes are heard over carefully worded discussion.

Anyone who has read my other posts on here knows how critical I can be at times, but if I can hold back my frustrations and remain civil, you can too.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

liv3mind wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn i was really hopeful for this thread to remain on target, you put alot of good effort in and started a good discussion, its a shame that people came in to badmouth the devs and turned it into a hate thread, weather they deserve it or not, its not constructive to any situation, and will really just insight the dev's to ignore anytime they are tagged here now.

either way, its still got some great ideas and info in it. there are so many sorc complaint threads now that are purpose driven for complaint. its a shame they are bleeding into places meant to hold direct and constructive (pro/con) criticism that can be mature at the same time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_MattFiror hope you guys dont discount the rest of the thread just because people want to *** (for stars see adjective used as verb for "female dog") everywhere

i totally get what you are saying but it is so hard to think positively of the dev my first ever post on the forums was "POSITIVE SORC FEEDBACK" i commended them for their changes and i even point out they were going the right direction and it was great and also pointed out a few things we needed just to make it an enjoyable gaming experience and what the **** did they go and do....... this !!! so how are we supposed to stay positive hmmm?

jeskah · May 2016

Lets just reverse the things a little bit -since it seems, that the expectations were indeed skyhigh, so.... instead of we giving feedback, could some ZOS employee give us their vision about the sorcerer and stamina sorcerer?

iam117 · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

i totally get what you are saying but it is so hard to think positively of the dev my first ever post on the forums was "POSITIVE SORC FEEDBACK" i commended them for their changes and i even point out they were going the right direction and it was great and also pointed out a few things we needed just to make it an enjoyable gaming experience and what the **** did they go and do....... this !!! so how are we supposed to stay positive hmmm?

@genjutsu_kami i didn't say you needed to stay positive. i said constructive pro/con. there is nothing constructive about turning this thread into a hate thread. but i completely understand your frustration and even share it.

to everyone else, like the op stated: its a pts thread, for constructive feedback. the title does not say "stamina sorcerer complaint thread with magicka sorcerer commentary" please try to stay on track.

Ajax_22 · May 2016

jeskah wrote: »

Lets just reverse the things a little bit -since it seems, that the expectations were indeed skyhigh, so.... instead of we giving feedback, could some ZOS employee give us their vision about the sorcerer and stamina sorcerer?

Good luck getting that to happen. We've been asking ZOS for years to lay out their vision, for a good number of things. The block change thread from Wrobel is the closest thing we've ever gotten to doing that.

cschwingeb14_ESO · May 2016

luxfreak wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

changes are great, stam sorcs just need an instant dps class ability that rivals with the other classes

Dks dont have an instant class dps, and are op af.
i wish more for a class based single target dot to intetract with rapidstrikes+msa weapons.
Well, a stamina based crystal frag would be ok too. For class unqiness

WTF do you think Flame Lash is? Yes, it's melee range (sort of. It has a 8m range, which is huge)

I know that I'd love to even have a melee spamable insta attack on my sorc. It's what we need to counter reflect. Instead, sorcs have nothing, and every single destro staff spamable can be reflected.

Ajax_22 · May 2016

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

luxfreak wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

changes are great, stam sorcs just need an instant dps class ability that rivals with the other classes

Dks dont have an instant class dps, and are op af.
i wish more for a class based single target dot to intetract with rapidstrikes+msa weapons.
Well, a stamina based crystal frag would be ok too. For class unqiness

WTF do you think Flame Lash is? Yes, it's melee range (sort of. It has a 8m range, which is huge)

I know that I'd love to even have a melee spamable insta attack on my sorc. It's what we need to counter reflect. Instead, sorcs have nothing, and every single destro staff spamable can be reflected.

This is the Stamina Sorcerer thread. Stam DKs do not have a class spamable.

acw37162 · May 2016

With respect to the players who like the change; I'm sorry I ever asked for surge/crit surge to work with DOT's

This version of crit surge is not enjoyable for me, it's back to rally and vigor which I really wanted to get away from.

Spent all that time getting ready for VR rank removal for a character I'm not going to play much.

The bone shield change also sucks, IMO. Even tho it's not expressly related stam sorc.

I do like the new animation for hurricane tho.

Armann · May 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

I do like the new animation for hurricane tho.

How does the new animation for Hurricane look?