Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

Ahzek

Armann wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

I do like the new animation for hurricane tho.

How does the new animation for Hurricane look?

It now has small pebbles/pieces of dirt flying with less wind effects on the lower stages.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Here is some actual PTS testing of Patch 2.4.3: Critical Surge in PvP (with battle spirit nerf)

Character has 27 points into blessed (10% healing given) and 46 Points into quick recovery (10% healing taken)

Even though Crit Surge was changed so it doesn't heal for the entirety of the damage done, there still appears to be a very strong cooldown.


Look at all the crits, with no heal.


What is the point of allowing DOTs to proc Crit surge if the cooldown still eats all the heals?!?!?!?!

Isn't it better to just proc on big hits then only maybe proc on dots because of a cooldown? Isn't that the same issue we had with surge the first time the cooldown was put on the skill?

cschwingeb14_ESO

As far as keeping feedback constructive, it's very tough. I have some vague hope that they are piling on the nerfs and then plan to wow us with a great change like a spamable attack that synergizes with other class abilities.

But keeping positive after posting suggestions for changes to fury, armaments, surge, exchange, and much more, over and over again (my stam sorc hit V16 before TG released and I've had a magicka sorc main since beta), and seeing other people's suggestions posted and ignored over and over is very disheartening.

A class vision, published by the devs, would go a long way towards calming everyone down. Or even an answer like "sorcs are not getting a class spamable ability in e near future, and here is why:" would be great

Lastly, for all the people yelling in caps and bold that this is a STAMINA sorc thread, get a grip. A design change to a skill like bound armor can affect both aegis and armaments. And if the devs can fix issues with both magicka sorcs and stam sorcs by changing a stam morph and a magicka morph at the same time, then that's good for the class and the game

XaXa

liv3mind wrote: »

@Yolokin_Swagonborn i was really hopeful for this thread to remain on target, you put alot of good effort in and started a good discussion, its a shame that people came in to badmouth the devs and turned it into a hate thread, weather they deserve it or not, its not constructive to any situation, and will really just insight the dev's to ignore anytime they are tagged here now.

either way, its still got some great ideas and info in it. there are so many sorc complaint threads now that are purpose driven for complaint. its a shame they are bleeding into places meant to hold direct and constructive (pro/con) criticism that can be mature at the same time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_MattFiror hope you guys dont discount the rest of the thread just because people want to *** (for stars see adjective used as verb for "female dog") everywhere

I would actually like to apologize because I am one of those people. After my comments were removed I turned my phone off, took my meds, and thought about the changes and what they meant. While I am still frustrated that ZOS pretends like we don't exist that doesn't justify some of the vitriol I spewed. I hope @Wrobel is able to look past my stupidity.

lesson learned: Don't post angry. Don't post un-medicated.

NOW. time for some constructive feedback. the heal when effected by battle spirit is just too low. Personally I feel they need to boost it by a decent %. OR decrease the cooldown to .5 seconds. this would at LEAST put us back at 3k heals per second. and I feel that would also make it more useful for pve.

XaXa

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

Grao

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

As far as keeping feedback constructive, it's very tough. I have some vague hope that they are piling on the nerfs and then plan to wow us with a great change like a spamable attack that synergizes with other class abilities.

But keeping positive after posting suggestions for changes to fury, armaments, surge, exchange, and much more, over and over again (my stam sorc hit V16 before TG released and I've had a magicka sorc main since beta), and seeing other people's suggestions posted and ignored over and over is very disheartening.

A class vision, published by the devs, would go a long way towards calming everyone down. Or even an answer like "sorcs are not getting a class spamable ability in e near future, and here is why:" would be great

Lastly, for all the people yelling in caps and bold that this is a STAMINA sorc thread, get a grip. A design change to a skill like bound armor can affect both aegis and armaments. And if the devs can fix issues with both magicka sorcs and stam sorcs by changing a stam morph and a magicka morph at the same time, then that's good for the class and the game

Fully agree as a main sorcerer since Beta as well. Were you around for Repulse or did you come after that?

A class vision would indeed be appreciated, not only for sorcerers but for every class as right now I think there is this notion that every class should be the utmost best at everything. One has to realize every class in a MMO has a certain degree of specialization. I would love to know what exactly the Devs believe sorcerers are great at right now, because if their answer is the same as mine, I don't understand why this class is not getting buffed.

I also agree with your comment on this being s STAMINA thread, well... Any changes that are done to the class to benefit stamina will invariantly affect magicka users as well, so it would be great if the Devs heard opinions from both sides at once. There are skills magicka sorcerers are more than happy to donate to favor Stamina builds, but there will be those skills we believe are core to certain builds.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Grao

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That would likely be too much of a buff.

Something a little more reasonable is to reduce or remove the internal cooldown while maintaining the heal value a flat amount. That would allow us to get more low value heals and sustain our selves.

That or there has to be reversal to what Surge is in Live, ignoring DoTs and counting only crits from direct spells for the heals, resulting in spike, burst heals.

Birdovic

The sad part is, It was somewhat okay with 2.4.2

Even if not intended, it FELT intended, they seemed to listen.
They give an acceptable 3k health flat heal, and exclude it from Battle Spirit, so PvP'ers have something useful, too.
Sounds smart right?

But yeah, seems it was just an mistake, nothing smart at all..

XaXa

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

XaXa

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

The sad part is, It was somewhat okay with 2.4.2

Even if not intended, it FELT intended, they seemed to listen.
They give an acceptable 3k health flat heal, and exclude it from Battle Spirit, so PvP'ers have something useful, too.
Sounds smart right?

But yeah, seems it was just an mistake, nothing smart at all..

I was somewhat okay with it as well. I got access to rapid strikes and was stok

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

ah okay. I get you know. I +1 that

exiledtyrant

I think surge was kept low because the design team wanted to gather impressions on how strong surge was now that it's critical heal was based on the right critical hit chance for the right resource. Using a build with 70% weapon critical chance ( potentially 80+ with daggers and other sets) the frequency was definitely up. The actual critical heal value still scales with elfborn instead of precise CP however. Even with increases critical healing frequency the problems with critical surge remain. It can't really function past a certain % of health and it is still not competitive with other major brutality buffs.

I ran some different scenarios in City of Ash of VMA to get a feel for the current HPS in a sustained vs pressured healing environment. I used a medium armor build with 70% critical hit in City of Ash and a heavy armor build with 42% critical hit chance in VMA. I didn't wind up using any healing % increases outside of the 8% from heavy armor.

The first pic was one of the averages from a group of stranglers I tested around 10 times. They gave out a fairly steady 6-8k damage a second with all 5 attacking and I could run away to reset them instead of constantly finding new targets. The damage was fairly manageable and surge kept me topped off throughout.

The next 3 are from the first 3 VMA bosses. There was a lot more damage sustained and I depended on dark exchange far more than surge for these fights even though surge contributes the most healing. Most fights were hectic with my health spiking all over the place. I hit a brick wall on the stage 4 boss and didn't want to perfect my kill order to push my way to stage 5. Stage 5 round three has been impossible for me all last week no matter what stamina oriented build I've tried. The damage output is far more than I can sustain.

***********************************************************************************************************
I still would like more mitigation options instead of more healing. I don't feel ping ponging my health to full is very fun to play as or against. I haven't used surge outside of PTS for several months because all of my builds have gravitated towards being DOT oriented. As surge stands now I don't see a reason for that to change.

Grao

exiledtyrant wrote: »

I think surge was kept low because the design team wanted to gather impressions on how strong surge was now that it's critical heal was based on the right critical hit chance for the right resource. Using a build with 70% weapon critical chance ( potentially 80+ with daggers and other sets) the frequency was definitely up. The actual critical heal value still scales with elfborn instead of precise CP however. Even with increases critical healing frequency the problems with critical surge remain. It can't really function past a certain % of health and it is still not competitive with other major brutality buffs.

I ran some different scenarios in City of Ash of VMA to get a feel for the current HPS in a sustained vs pressured healing environment. I used a medium armor build with 70% critical hit in City of Ash and a heavy armor build with 42% critical hit chance in VMA. I didn't wind up using any healing % increases outside of the 8% from heavy armor.

The first pic was one of the averages from a group of stranglers I tested around 10 times. They gave out a fairly steady 6-8k damage a second with all 5 attacking and I could run away to reset them instead of constantly finding new targets. The damage was fairly manageable and surge kept me topped off throughout.

The next 3 are from the first 3 VMA bosses. There was a lot more damage sustained and I depended on dark exchange far more than surge for these fights even though surge contributes the most healing. Most fights were hectic with my health spiking all over the place. I hit a brick wall on the stage 4 boss and didn't want to perfect my kill order to push my way to stage 5. Stage 5 round three has been impossible for me all last week no matter what stamina oriented build I've tried. The damage output is far more than I can sustain.

***********************************************************************************************************
I still would like more mitigation options instead of more healing. I don't feel ping ponging my health to full is very fun to play as or against. I haven't used surge outside of PTS for several months because all of my builds have gravitated towards being DOT oriented. As surge stands now I don't see a reason for that to change.

Damn, you managed to use Useless Exchange? That alone is a accomplishment to be proud of, the skill is terrible for the same reason we don't use Crystal Fragments as a spammable ability. That silly little cast time that is in no way just 1 second long.

exiledtyrant

Dark exchange is actually really good when there isn't a lot of spike damage. I will definitely being using it in group content to help sustain my AOE rotation indefinitely. It also helps negate the cost of roll dodge. I tried all types of heals combinations in VMA. Dark exchange + surge was the best for me. Vigor + surge wasn't enough and ate to much stamina. Dark exchange + vigor wasn't healing fast enough to let me keep attacking. Brawler shielding + heals wasn't working out to well because the mobs stayed just far enough apart to stop my shield from stacking. The only thing I didn't try was vigor + rally.

More mitigation during or after the cast would make dark exchange much more attractive however. Right now I feel stuck past a certain % of hp with no windows of power to capitalize on.

STEVIL

RoyJade wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Who said surge ever should be the only heal youll ever need?

Is that what sorcs need for "balance"? One click back bar never worry sbout healing?

Dont they also have their own shields, pet heals, exchange not to mention access to resto staff (scales off mag) or Rally (for stasorc)?

Is the GOAL to make surge the only heal sorcs need?

We are speaking about stamina classes exclusively (even if we can say a lot of things about magsorc too).

DK have strong dot, great boost like reflect and major mending, really good passives, two stamina ultimate, good CC.
Nightblades have a full arsenal to do everything without weapon, plus good passives, good CC with fear and good abilities (cloak, merciless resolve…).
Templars have a good spammable ability, a good cc, some good bonuses and substain and even with that they aren't at the top.
Sorc… they have only a few useable passive (but one really good), no CC, no heal buff, no mitigation. Our triple core is mobility (not a lot, and TG patch + gap closer really hurt it), a toogle who cost two slot for a tiny 8% max stamina and 11+ damage to heavy attack (even with the 20% regen passive, nearly nobody slot it on pvp),and a good heal on hit, surge. Now, our only survivability tool has been further nerfed to the ground. What we got in exchange ? Nothing.

So yes. Stamsorc was the class who improve weapon attack, with great mobility and who are rewarded for an aggressive gameplay, and now we have nearly nothing else. We can drop surge, but give us a STRONG damage/utility boost against it, enough to be able to be, you know, competitive in endgame content.

Heres what i am eyeing for khsjit sorc stam... still experimental since chgs not final.
For melee dw on one bar, 2h on other.
Sets like briar +hunding + night mother so basically high crit chances plus melee damage and stamina.
Should have 75% + crit with buffs.
Crit surge, stamina hurricane for close in dot, rally new flurry and/or tornado etc... overload for third bar and ults base off higher so its good. Negate for shutdown. Bound for boost, maybe even pets IF they scale by release with sta. Havent reviewed all the changes that are still in flux but i still got almost 10 slots empty for whatever i need.

This doesnt sound end of the world just delete the class to me.

Am really intrigued by where cp will go, between damage, crit and heal.

Again, sun coming up tomorrow... pretty sure about that.

Tyrannitar

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

Yolo, this is probably the smartest idea there is on the subject and most reasonably and succinctly worded.

STEVIL

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

Yolo, this is probably the smartest idea there is on the subject and most reasonably and succinctly worded.

All the infinite healing of jabs without that pesky close range aoe channel thing or even the cant jab while cc thing snd major buff to boot while running whatever offense is needed (stun at range for cc, ranged aoe, etc etc etc.)

Sorcs able to survive with one heal they click every 33 sec.

Whats not to love?

CP5

STEVIL wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

Yolo, this is probably the smartest idea there is on the subject and most reasonably and succinctly worded.

All the infinite healing of jabs without that pesky close range aoe channel thing or even the cant jab while cc thing snd major buff to boot while running whatever offense is needed (stun at range for cc, ranged aoe, etc etc etc.)

Sorcs able to survive with one heal they click every 33 sec.

Whats not to love?

Where are you that 3k hps (or 1.5k hps in pvp) will keep you alive?

Grao

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

Yolo, this is probably the smartest idea there is on the subject and most reasonably and succinctly worded.

If I understand his proposition correctly then it would be easier to simply institute that Surge Heals a percentage of the damage caused by the critical hit and that the minimun heal is X, X currently being 3k (1.5k for PvP). Easier than having two scales, etc.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Grao wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

Yolo, this is probably the smartest idea there is on the subject and most reasonably and succinctly worded.

If I understand his proposition correctly then it would be easier to simply institute that Surge Heals a percentage of the damage caused by the critical hit and that the minimun heal is X, X currently being 3k (1.5k for PvP). Easier than having two scales, etc.

Except that you need two separate heals, with two separate cooldowns: one for dots and one for direct damage Big hits.

If not, you would never get the % return from a big hit because the crit dots would have surge constantly on cooldown. That was why they removed DOTs from surge in the first place. They were stealing the larger heals.

Grao

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Better yet return surge to what it is on live. BUT add:

"When Criting on a DoT you heal for flat value of health."

That is probably the best sort of compromise we can hope for at this point. But the cooldown is going to steal the big heals because I was hitting 3-4 Dot crits every second.

Crit surge would have to have two separate heals and two separate Cooldowns. A flat Dot heal with a cooldown and a % based non-dot heal without one.

Didn't think of that... as much as I love the other suggestions for bound aegis / armaments (Like the Dark Shields and Dark Lances) maybe that could be the active component of the skill we are all looking for? sure it doesn't fit with the whole Daedric Summoning vibe and its not a direct damage skill like we all want.... but you could imbue your self with Daedric power causing all crits from DoT effects to heal for a flat value. stack that with the live crit surge and I feel like that would make us pretty survivable...

Edit: Although now that ive posted this I feel like it might be a little OP.

I think you misunderstood me.

I just want the skill to do two things.

Flat return on DoTs. (with cooldown)
%return on direct damage (no cooldown)

Like two separate heals. you would see in your combat log.

Surge DOT heal

and
Surge % heal

Yolo, this is probably the smartest idea there is on the subject and most reasonably and succinctly worded.

If I understand his proposition correctly then it would be easier to simply institute that Surge Heals a percentage of the damage caused by the critical hit and that the minimun heal is X, X currently being 3k (1.5k for PvP). Easier than having two scales, etc.

Except that you need two separate heals, with two separate cooldowns: one for dots and one for direct damage Big hits.

If not, you would never get the % return from a big hit because the crit dots would have surge constantly on cooldown. That was why they removed DOTs from surge in the first place. They were stealing the larger heals.

Well, it would be a matter of RNG and timing I guess... They having separated CDs might lead ZoS and others to think the ability is over powered.

DGolden94

Air Atronach that does physical damage instead of charged atronach!!!

Yolokin_Swagonborn

DGolden94 wrote: »

Air Atronach that does physical damage instead of charged atronach!!!

Yes, that and a dozen other things we all mentioned would be really awesome. But instead, we get a slight weapon damage buff and a crit surge nerf.

Grao

DGolden94 wrote: »

Air Atronach that does physical damage instead of charged atronach!!!

This ability and morphs should be renamed to Summon Atronach Traitor, seriously... It is DPS Ultimate that instead of buffing its master it buffs some other random person around it it? BS.

Morph 1 should do so that when synergy is activated it offers major berserk to the one who activated the synergy, to the Atronach it self and to the sorcerer who summoned the damn pet. Single target damage of this would be magicka, shock damage and should be quite high.

Morph 2 should drop an air Atronach that deals AoE damage around and within it self to enemies and that mitigates damage similarly to Veil of Blades. It deals physical and at the same time would provide great utility which this ultimate currently lacks.

Trenia

You guys are complaining way too much about crit surge for Stam. We get to heal on shields. We have heals from surge, blood craze, flurry, and drain shot. That is without vigor. That is more than enough.

Turbine

Trenia wrote: »

You guys are complaining way too much about crit surge for Stam. We get to heal on shields. We have heals from surge, blood craze, flurry, and drain shot. That is without vigor. That is more than enough.

No its not enough, there are at example magic sorc or stam nb that makes on a stam sorc so lot dmg that the healing from stam sorc is not enough. In my opionion the stam sorc need a heal buff how the templar that gives him at example 25% more healing

jeskah

IMHO and after a day, there is maybe too much attention have been given to the surge changes, wich are definately could be described as a nerf, however, it was somewhat overpowered compared to the other sources of the the brutality buff (but, again, at least it was unique for a decent level, now it will become one of the aviable choices, and maybe not the better ones).

Anyway.

I think, that the current state of the bound armor is a bigger problem - beeing toggles and passives, beeing on both bars, passively...
So, instead of the surge rioting, i think, that in the aviable time a change in that skill would be handy. And since its an armament, an active instant damaging ability part would be preferred.

(On paper, its looks good, heavy attack damage, some armor, stamina increase - and lets not forget the weapon/spellpower increase,- edit: and the 20% regen, goddamit - but its ... idunno, boring and clumsy. And i dont want to drop this ability from my skill bar, but maybe i should in the current state.)

And maybe a change in dark deal - making it instant cast, somewhat enlarging the stamina regain even trough an over time component, at the cost of lowering the heal component (but not much! since the new surge is not that effective anymore).

For a start

Ryuho

Gonna quote myself: Increase crit surge flat heal by additional 2k, so tooltip would be 5k, in cyro 2.5k non crit heal. Increase frequency of healing ticks, change every 1 sec to 0,5 sec or even 0,25 sec.. Won't be OP but at least won't be an useless skill.

STEVIL

@jeskah
Agree.

I would like to see the bound toggles replaced with 30s base dur one clicks that restore magica/sta on end, similar to dismising pets. Give both a damage or crit buff for the appropriate type sta or mag. Lose the max magica boost, maybe replace with cost reduction if needed.

I would like to see dark exchange swapped for self-centered spammable aoe burst with magica morph for higher range and stamina morph for adding snare. Both proc the 8% heal passive dark magic.