Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

XaXa · May 2016

Im interested to try out the ravager set with a flurry, hurricane, and trops stam sorc now that its 160.

Still want class changes though.

STEVIL · May 2016

Ryuho wrote: »

Gonna quote myself: Increase crit surge flat heal by additional 2k, so tooltip would be 5k, in cyro 2.5k non crit heal. Increase frequency of healing ticks, change every 1 sec to 0,5 sec or even 0,25 sec.. Won't be OP but at least won't be an useless skill.

How would this compare surging destro staff unmorph crush shock single target spam dmg plus healing vs strife and its 25%hot?

XaXa · May 2016

My hope is that we didnt get any major skill revamps because they are polsihing them and didnt want to release unfinished skills on the pts...

Its a stupid fantasy but i can dream right?

Derra · May 2016

Ryuho wrote: »

Gonna quote myself: Increase crit surge flat heal by additional 2k, so tooltip would be 5k, in cyro 2.5k non crit heal. Increase frequency of healing ticks, change every 1 sec to 0,5 sec or even 0,25 sec.. Won't be OP but at least won't be an useless skill.

I think for ZOS to get surge to work reliably somehow it would have to abandon the crit mechanic or surge would have to trigger a small hot:

Critting an enemy heals you for 2200 (powersurge) / 3300 (critsurge) (halved by battlespirit) each second for 4 seconds (initial hit + 4 heal ticks of same potency).

New crits with hot active refresh duration.

The dot healing is nice in theory but useless in practice (imo) and basically restricting surge heals to only direct crits.
Either let it heal of all direct hits (remove crit requirement) or let it heal for a short duration after not hitting (remove constant attack requirement).

Cathexis · May 2016

We lost stam based boneshield. Awesome, so we're back to 0 antizerg defensive abilities.

XaXa · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

We lost stam based boneshield. Awesome, so we're back to 0 antizerg defensive abilities.

I feel boneshield wouldnt help against zergs if they kept the changes. At least not as much as some people think. I would prefer they focus on the changes to dark deal / blast/ armaments.

Jar_Ek · May 2016

@Derra Why not a heal that provides an initial burst on critical hit (say 25% of damage done, 0.1s cd - maybe with a threshold to limit DoT burst heals, such as attacks under 2k don't trigger the burst heal) and a 4s 2k hot. The initial burst heal occurs / is calculated every critical and the hot is refreshed. That way you gain more from wrecking blow/high damage attacks, but still trigger from any critical (ie DoTs).

DDragon · May 2016

While this one is a little concerned with critical surge especially in PvE aspect of the game (to be exact this one is concerned with veteran maelstrom area, especially but not limited to daedroths), this one still thinks that main burden of changes should be focused on pressuring devs to revamp bound armor.

This one especially liked the idea of chance to proc instant summon of sword on every physical attack with 3 swords active at a time and several seconds of summon.

Furthermore this simple khajiit thinks hurricane should be changed in such way, that enhanced damage could be upkeep rather than lost when the effect is reapplied before it finish.

Please, do not make us wait for abilities revamps to the next DLC. Stamina sorcs have waited really long. This one will facepalm if some Sheggo will say, that next DLC patch will focus on fixin’ sorcs class in general…

Derra · May 2016

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@Derra Why not a heal that provides an initial burst on critical hit (say 25% of damage done, 0.1s cd - maybe with a threshold to limit DoT burst heals, such as attacks under 2k don't trigger the burst heal) and a 4s 2k hot. The initial burst heal occurs / is calculated every critical and the hot is refreshed. That way you gain more from wrecking blow/high damage attacks, but still trigger from any critical (ie DoTs).

Perfectly valid aswell - basically a combination of the old and new surge.

I´ve tried to come up with a modification only for the new surge mechanic as i believe ZOS to be unwilling to revert changes.

XaXa · May 2016

I doubt were getting it reverted. At least not soon. I would be pleasently surprised if they did.

I would settle with it being kept it a flat rate. But boost the heal to 5k tooltip minimum or decrease the cooldown to. 5 seconds

Jar_Ek · May 2016

One of my big concerns with the flat rate HoT is that there is so little you can do to affect it. Once you can reliably proc it no gear or skill (excepting anything that causes a mending buff - which is essentially unavailable to stamina sorcerers) will make any difference to its value... only CP. In addition you cannot trigger a large heal "on demand" like you could with crit rush or even build for high crit to ensure a steady high heal rate. It's just so... uninspiring I guess.

XaXa · May 2016

Jar_Ek wrote: »

One of my big concerns with the flat rate HoT is that there is so little you can do to affect it. Once you can reliably proc it no gear or skill (excepting anything that causes a mending buff - which is essentially unavailable to stamina sorcerers) will make any difference to its value... only CP. In addition you cannot trigger a large heal "on demand" like you could with crit rush or even build for high crit to ensure a steady high heal rate. It's just so... uninspiring I guess.

Perfect word to describe sorcs now. "Uninspiring"

XaXa · May 2016

I just realized its possible we are asking for to much... after more soul searching in regards to my rant yesterday i realized that were asking for alot of changes in a very short time frame...

therefore, I would say that the most logical starting point and thing to ask for would be to have dark deal be instant. I feel that change alone would help Stamsorcs greatly. Then we could move on with the discussion from there.

That would make the skill viable and allow us to heal / restore resources.

As much as i would love a bound armaments change or stam frags i feel like a dark deal change is a good place to start as it provides a class heal / utility.

I do hope @Wrobel is still keeping an eye on this thread and doesnt write it off because my previous implosion and stupidity.

Edit: sorry for spelling... im on phone in class

Grao · May 2016

XaXa wrote: »

I just realized its possible we are asking for to much... after more soul searching in regards to my rant yesterday i realized that were asking for alot of changes in a very short time frame...

therefore, I would say that the most logical starting point and thing to ask for would be to have dark deal be instant. I feel that change alone would help Stamsorcs greatly. Then we could move on with the discussion from there.

That would make the skill viable and allow us to heal / restore resources.

As much as i would love a bound armaments change or stam frags i feel like a dark deal change is a good place to start as it provides a class heal / utility.

I do hope @Wrobel is still keeping am eye on this thread and doesnt it write off because my previous implosion and stupidity.

They wont make Useless Exchange instantaneous because they are afraid or permanent shielding and permanent blocking.

I really don't think we are asking for that much... They just went through the trouble of remaking several of the DKs graphics just because the community disliked the 'pukeknight' idea. I think balance changes are far more important than aesthetics.

Bound Armament and Bound Aegis need actives that relate to their names. Armament should give a buff for Minor Berserk or Minor Breach, Bound Aegis should give an instant Heal. The passive Magicka increase from bound Aegis should be turned to passive Health increase.

The passive that estates you gain extra health for having pets summoned should be converted to give extra magicka.

Clannfear's heal should be removed and it should get a taunt as its active. Lore wise clannfears have no healing abilities.

Ward should be given a small buff to all its morphs allowing it to heal the pets by X on cast besides shielding the pets.

Useless Exchange should be replaced by a spammable ability for sorcerers, one morph melee with extra damage, one morph ranged with magicka drain.

Crystal Blast, an ability that is currently bugged, should be reworked into something similar to crystal fragments but for stamina users.

There... Think those are the most urgent fixes I can think of... Oh and make pets affected by CP >.> cause seriously, that we have 3 spells damage spells + morphs that are not affected by CPs is seriously stupid.

Grao · May 2016

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

Emma_Overload · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

Chill out, man.... ZOS has got their top men working on Sorcerer issues!

https://youtu.be/yoy4_h7Pb3M

CP5 · May 2016

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

To be fair ww's have been pushing for this for close to 2 years now with next to no information at all.

TBois · May 2016

Well my pessimism has been reinstated.

Maybe we should try to compile and number what seems to be the Stam sorc community priorities. Put that at the beginning of the thread. Might be simple enough that it will get more traction with the dev team than sorting reading all the responses. I'm just about over it though and don't want to take the time to do this, since it's not my job. I think I'll just unsub instead. @Yolokin_Swagonborn

Grao · May 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

Chill out, man.... ZOS has got their top men working on Sorcerer issues!

https://youtu.be/yoy4_h7Pb3M

Yeah... Right...

CP5 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

To be fair ww's have been pushing for this for close to 2 years now with next to no information at all.

I know, I play a werewolf... But still, one of their classes is falling apart and we have over 2000 posts between the threads here in the PTS section and they answer something about such silly cosmetic request but won't come talk to us? It is a slap on the face man...

TBois wrote: »

Well my pessimism has been reinstated.

Maybe we should try to compile and number what seems to be the Stam sorc community priorities. Put that at the beginning of the thread. Might be simple enough that it will get more traction with the dev team than sorting reading all the responses. I'm just about over it though and don't want to take the time to do this, since it's not my job. I think I'll just unsub instead. @Yolokin_Swagonborn

Welcome to the unsubbed club.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

listen everyone, all your points are great and valid and there is some great ideas being suggested. But ZOS i find purposely shed light on something to shadow other important things. such as giving stam sorcs an instant dps class ability to match up with the other classes in the game.

all of this is a distraction. heres what i predict. we will complain about crit surge until launch of DB eventually the focus will be so much on crit surge it will overshadow the fact that stam sorcs do not have an instant dps ability or other ability changes that are needed. so 5 or so days before launch they will put surge back to normal and the only changes we have are the new passive changes.

this to ZOS is a success. fooled the community to divert there opinions to something they where going to put back to normal anyways then get praises for not breaking their precious surge when in fact there are so so so many things that need addressing for stam sorcs.

companies have know to use this strategy to control consumer pressure on other things that are not on the first agenda.

(some one quote me on this i honestly believe this is whats going to happen and if it does not and stam sorcs get the changes they need then message me and call me out for it)

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

LOL 5 sorcerer threads with about 2000 posts with all put together and no answer... What do they choose to answer to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2985195#Comment_2985195

This. Werewolf fur recoloring...

Chill out, man.... ZOS has got their top men working on Sorcerer issues!

https://youtu.be/yoy4_h7Pb3M

its fair to say that we are wasting our time with ZOS and they are liars "we listen to the feedback from the community" really ??? you liars you don't listen to nothing until it builds up to people finding your private emails and slating you for your poor decision making.

XaXa · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

listen everyone, all your points are great and valid and there is some great ideas being suggested. But ZOS i find purposely shed light on something to shadow other important things. such as giving stam sorcs an instant dps class ability to match up with the other classes in the game.

all of this is a distraction. heres what i predict. we will complain about crit surge until launch of DB eventually the focus will be so much on crit surge it will overshadow the fact that stam sorcs do not have an instant dps ability or other ability changes that are needed. so 5 or so days before launch they will put surge back to normal and the only changes we have are the new passive changes.

this to ZOS is a success. fooled the community to divert there opinions to something they where going to put back to normal anyways then get praises for not breaking their precious surge when in fact there are so so so many things that need addressing for stam sorcs.

companies have know to use this strategy to control consumer pressure on other things that are not on the first agenda.

(some one quote me on this i honestly believe this is whats going to happen and if it does not and stam sorcs get the changes they need then message me and call me out for it)

I can actually see this happening. Anyone at zos willing to confirm?

@Wrobel, look all were asking for is some small changes. The passive changes were a step in the right direction along with hurricane. But we want some class DPS and our "bound" Skill to have a non toggle. This would make most of us shut up. We just want to be competitive

Can we at least get a /lurk?

Grao · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

listen everyone, all your points are great and valid and there is some great ideas being suggested. But ZOS i find purposely shed light on something to shadow other important things. such as giving stam sorcs an instant dps class ability to match up with the other classes in the game.

all of this is a distraction. heres what i predict. we will complain about crit surge until launch of DB eventually the focus will be so much on crit surge it will overshadow the fact that stam sorcs do not have an instant dps ability or other ability changes that are needed. so 5 or so days before launch they will put surge back to normal and the only changes we have are the new passive changes.

this to ZOS is a success. fooled the community to divert there opinions to something they where going to put back to normal anyways then get praises for not breaking their precious surge when in fact there are so so so many things that need addressing for stam sorcs.

companies have know to use this strategy to control consumer pressure on other things that are not on the first agenda.

(some one quote me on this i honestly believe this is whats going to happen and if it does not and stam sorcs get the changes they need then message me and call me out for it)

Sadly I agree. The change to surge is a huge hit to several builds and to our general survivability, but reverting this changes will not save the class. At best it will leave it in the middle of the ocean holding tightly to a plank.

We need changes done to skills and ZoS clearly isn't willing to hear us on that. It still baffles me that sorcerers, the whole class, not only Stamina sorcerers, don't have a spammable ability. It makes absolutely no sense, does it? We are the only class without a spammable.

It also baffles me that Stamina was given a morph of Useless Exchange, an ability the majority believes is crap instead of a morph for Crystal Shard, likely the only defining skill left in the sorcerer kit that doesn't involve pets.

There is so much to go on... Like the fact the only remaining toggle without an active or that was not turned into an active buff is Bound Armor and its Morphs. But I am getting really tired... No response from ZOS, trolls all over our threads saying sorcerers are fine or that we will adapt even though they never played a sorcerer in late game PvE content... It is all just so stupid and pointless...

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2016

I agree we need to stop focusing on surge. I hate using it anyway and even a perfect crit surge would not fill in all the other gaps and areas that stamina sorcs are lacking.

If they revert surge back to the way it was, and we all heave a sigh of relief, then we have lost as a community because we fell for the old, "nerf it do death, then bring it (yay) back but nothing else changes" trick.

I like @TBois Idea of compiling a list of priorities.

I have been thinking of posting an example of what I would like to see in patch notes form. The answer to the question "What would you like to see on the next PTS patch notes that would make you jump on immediately and test it out."

However, I respect that there is plenty of disagreement even among ourselves. My "Ideal stam sorc" patch notes may look a lot different that Emma's or Jar's or Cathexis. So instead of asking for something super specific, and describing some sort of fantasy skill that has to be developed, we should stick to the basics.

That's what I tried to do in my initial post when I laid out the 4 qualities of a strong stamina build. But somehow that got translated by the development team into "Make surge work with DOTs." Did we even ask for that?

Cathexis · May 2016

XaXa wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

We lost stam based boneshield. Awesome, so we're back to 0 antizerg defensive abilities.

I feel boneshield wouldnt help against zergs if they kept the changes. At least not as much as some people think. I would prefer they focus on the changes to dark deal / blast/ armaments.

As a tank build I can tell you, it is exactly what we needed. Combined with hardened ward as your summoning skill and 2.5-3k health regen and 3k stam regen, we could have done great things.

I assume the devs were waving their *** around saying look what we can do, but quite frankly that just makes me further unimpressed and less likely to play, endorse, and support their game.

Tyrannitar · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote:

listen everyone, all your points are great and valid and there is some great ideas being suggested. But ZOS i find purposely shed light on something to shadow other important things. such as giving stam sorcs an instant dps class ability to match up with the other classes in the game.

all of this is a distraction. heres what i predict. we will complain about crit surge until launch of DB eventually the focus will be so much on crit surge it will overshadow the fact that stam sorcs do not have an instant dps ability or other ability changes that are needed. so 5 or so days before launch they will put surge back to normal and the only changes we have are the new passive changes.

this to ZOS is a success. fooled the community to divert there opinions to something they where going to put back to normal anyways then get praises for not breaking their precious surge when in fact there are so so so many things that need addressing for stam sorcs.

companies have know to use this strategy to control consumer pressure on other things that are not on the first agenda.

(some one quote me on this i honestly believe this is whats going to happen and if it does not and stam sorcs get the changes they need then message me and call me out for it)

I've figured this was their mentality, but literally every single patch note is a nerf and wrobel has explicitly stated crystal blast will never become a stam morph....

I swear if he makes it a stam morph of the already useless ability (ie. glitchy aoe & not a copy of the former wrecking blow) and then is like "WA-LAH NOW U STOP CREY ABOUT CRIT SURGE" I'm going to quit.

But to be honest, even that's a hopeful.

This is looking more and more bleak every day without a response from the devs and when our response comes in form of patch notes1 that are never fun to read... The game won't be fun to play anymore.

XaXa · May 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I agree we need to stop focusing on surge. I hate using it anyway and even a perfect crit surge would not fill in all the other gaps and areas that stamina sorcs are lacking.

If they revert surge back to the way it was, and we all heave a sigh of relief, then we have lost as a community because we fell for the old, "nerf it do death, then bring it (yay) back but nothing else changes" trick.

I like @TBois Idea of compiling a list of priorities.

I have been thinking of posting an example of what I would like to see in patch notes form. The answer to the question "What would you like to see on the next PTS patch notes that would make you jump on immediately and test it out."

However, I respect that there is plenty of disagreement even among ourselves. My "Ideal stam sorc" patch notes may look a lot different that Emma's or Jar's or Cathexis. So instead of asking for something super specific, and describing some sort of fantasy skill that has to be developed, we should stick to the basics.

That's what I tried to do in my initial post when I laid out the 4 qualities of a strong stamina build. But somehow that got translated by the development team into "Make surge work with DOTs." Did we even ask for that?

I support the idea of compiling the list of priorities as well.

After scouring this thread it seems that the most common requests are for (not in any particular order):

Crystal blast to be changed to a stamina close range "Crystal sword" type attack
Bound Armaments / Bound Aegis no longer being toggles and having an active effect.
and Dark Deal being usefull.

As such if we as a stam sorc community were able to put our SIMPLIFIED basic ideas into words. Do you think you could take the most common ones to ZOS and let them do the rest? (Not trying to push this or force it onto you. But you seem to be one of the more level headed people here.)

It seems these three major requests when put into the most simplified basic terms come down to:
(Tried to make this look like a PTS post, based on your idea)

Crystal Blast: This ability now scales off weapon damage and works similar to Crystal Fragments.
However, The Range is now (Insert Melee Range).

Bound Armaments / Aegis: This ability is no longer a toggle. Gain max stam/magicka when slotted. Casting does X effect. (Most seem to be for an Offensive attack for Armaments and a Defensive ability for Aegis)

Dark Deal: This Ability and its morphs are now an instant cast heal. However the secondary resource will be returned as an "Over time" status.

(This is just based off a quick "Re Skim" of the forums.)

EDIT: Edited because I apparently can not spell nor remember skill names. I has the dumbs ><.

XaXa · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

We lost stam based boneshield. Awesome, so we're back to 0 antizerg defensive abilities.

I feel boneshield wouldnt help against zergs if they kept the changes. At least not as much as some people think. I would prefer they focus on the changes to dark deal / blast/ armaments.

As a tank build I can tell you, it is exactly what we needed. Combined with hardened ward as your summoning skill and 2.5-3k health regen and 3k stam regen, we could have done great things.

I assume the devs were waving their *** around saying look what we can do, but quite frankly that just makes me further unimpressed and less likely to play, endorse, and support their game.

I never thought about it like that. That actually does sound awesome. (Your thing about combining it with Hardened ward... not the visual of the developers waving their junk around.)

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

XaXa wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I agree we need to stop focusing on surge. I hate using it anyway and even a perfect crit surge would not fill in all the other gaps and areas that stamina sorcs are lacking.

If they revert surge back to the way it was, and we all heave a sigh of relief, then we have lost as a community because we fell for the old, "nerf it do death, then bring it (yay) back but nothing else changes" trick.

I like @TBois Idea of compiling a list of priorities.

I have been thinking of posting an example of what I would like to see in patch notes form. The answer to the question "What would you like to see on the next PTS patch notes that would make you jump on immediately and test it out."

However, I respect that there is plenty of disagreement even among ourselves. My "Ideal stam sorc" patch notes may look a lot different that Emma's or Jar's or Cathexis. So instead of asking for something super specific, and describing some sort of fantasy skill that has to be developed, we should stick to the basics.

That's what I tried to do in my initial post when I laid out the 4 qualities of a strong stamina build. But somehow that got translated by the development team into "Make surge work with DOTs." Did we even ask for that?

I support the idea of compiling the list of priorities as well.

After scouring this thread it seems that the most common requests are for (not in any particular order):

Crystal blast to be changed to a stamina close range "Crystal sword" type attack
Bound Armaments / Bound Aegis no longer being toggles and having an active effect.
and Dark Deal being usefull.

As such if we as a stam sorc community were able to put our SIMPLIFIED basic ideas into words. Do you think you could take the most common ones to ZOS and let them do the rest? (Not trying to push this or force it onto you. But you seem to be one of the more level headed people here.)

It seems these three major requests when put into the most simplified basic terms come down to:
(Tried to make this look like a PTS kind of based on your idea)

Crystal Blast: This ability no scales off weapon damage and works similar to crystal blast. However, The Range is now (Insert Melee Range).

Bound Armaments / Aegis: This ability is no longer a toggle. Gain max stam/magicka when slotted. Casting does X effect. (Most seem to be for an Offensive attack for Armaments and a Defensive ability for Aegis)

Dark Deal: This Ability and its morphs are now an instant cast heal. However the secondary resource will be returned as an "Over time" status.

(This is just based off a quick "Re Skim" of the forums.)

anything at the moment would do, its getting so sad that we will take anything of the above you mentioned just as long as they do something decent for the stam sorc class that we have suggested

Cathexis · May 2016

XaXa wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

We lost stam based boneshield. Awesome, so we're back to 0 antizerg defensive abilities.

I feel boneshield wouldnt help against zergs if they kept the changes. At least not as much as some people think. I would prefer they focus on the changes to dark deal / blast/ armaments.

As a tank build I can tell you, it is exactly what we needed. Combined with hardened ward as your summoning skill and 2.5-3k health regen and 3k stam regen, we could have done great things.

I assume the devs were waving their *** around saying look what we can do, but quite frankly that just makes me further unimpressed and less likely to play, endorse, and support their game.

I never thought about it like that. That actually does sound awesome. (Your thing about combining it with Hardened ward... not the visual of the developers waving their junk around.)

LOL

But yeah, thats my main issue right now with my build. I'm stuck using mist form, which is fine, but it in no way would sustain damage as well as actual shields. Its a bandaid at best.