Restore Bracing - Never Ask for Buffs

VaxtinTheWolf · April 2016

I made a tiny suggestion for the Sturdy trait to also have a 0.5% damage reduction per quality rank as well as the block cost reduction.

Weesacs · April 2016

Yes. And not just one wrecking blower, you can tank 2-3 of them

lol, only 2 or 3? Guess how many I could take when I was able to perma-block whilst using stamina pots? Put it this way, after a few mins of them bouncing off my shield they left you alone.

I also dont care for damage - im a pure tank.

Lastly, yeah, I would love you to prove to me that, whilst wearing full impenetrable, your better off now than with bracing on HA.

I look forward to your videos ...

Soris · April 2016

Imo HA should offer more health. Passive gives 10% health with 5 piece, it should give 20% at least.

DDuke · April 2016

Weesacs wrote: »

Yes. And not just one wrecking blower, you can tank 2-3 of them

lol, only 2 or 3? Guess how many I could take when I was able to perma-block whilst using stamina pots? Put it this way, after a few mins of them bouncing off my shield they left you alone.

I also dont care for damage - im a pure tank.

Lastly, yeah, I would love you to prove to me that, whilst wearing full impenetrable, your better off now than with bracing on HA.

I look forward to your videos ...

Read the rest. You need Empowering Sweep to tank more people without permablock, otherwise there's more pressure than you can outheal .

I have multiple clips of me tanking 5-10 people for minutes without permablock, I'll make sure to add a few of those to the build video

Even once had 5 people spending half an hour trying to kill me (I know that, because Shadowplay with 20min recording limit only caught half of it

) - all without any kind of permablocking (or much blocking in general).

You wanted to know if you can tank without permablock (wrecking blowers specifically), now you know. Case closed I believe.

Dubhliam · April 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

You don't need to permablock, I've been saying that for ages here on this thread.

If you get enough mitigations (armor, spell resistance, crit resistance, CPs), you can easily take hits without blocking & just brush them off as they tickle you.

Really? So a DK spamming wrecking blow 2 hander against me I can just stand there and 'tickle it off' without blocking due to my armour, crit resistance and CPs?

Wow ... I really need to see this to believe it ... anyone on PTS prove this to me?

Yes. And not just one wrecking blower, you can tank 2-3 of them. More than that, you'll need them to have very low damage, or use Empowering Sweep :P

<Here> is what happens when you wrecking blow spam.

In next patch, WB spammers are even weaker & tanks stronger.

Uppercut: This ability and the Wrecking Blow morph no longer knockback and stun enemies hit.

Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.

Rapid Mending:Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%

I'd gladly prove this in PTS if I had access to my Live character, but alas I've only 300 CP templates with garbage gear there

A templar that is NOT using Radiant Opression in PvP?
Well, that is a first.

Soris · April 2016

Also immovable should be buffed to what it was before 1.6. Reduce the cost, increase the immunity effect duration and make it require 5 piece heavy.

Dubhliam · April 2016

Soris wrote: »

Also immovable should be buffed to what it was before 1.6. Reduce the cost, increase the immunity effect duration and make it require 5 piece heavy.

I already made a detailed post in another thread, might as well post it here.

Immovable:

Requires at least 1 heavy armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 13,5 seconds 5 seconds
- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 1,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Immovable Brute:

Requires at least 1 heavy armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 13,5 seconds 5 seconds
- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Protection, Major Resolve and Major Ward, reducing your damage taken by 30% and increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also reduces your Weapon Power and Spell power by 20%
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- While slottedactive, the Stamina cost of breaking free from a disabling effect is reduced for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 1,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Unstoppable:

Requires at least 1 heavy armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 13,5 seconds 5 seconds
- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.
- Knockback and disabling effect immunity is increased by 1,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Annulment

Requires at least 1 light armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Surrond yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to X Spell Damage over 20 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of light armor equipped.

Dampen Magic

Requires at least 1 light armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Surrond yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to X Spell Damage over 20 seconds.
- Amount of damage absorbed is increased by 3% for each piece of light armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of light armor equipped.

Harness Magicka

Requires at least 1 light armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Surrond yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to X Spell Damage over 20 seconds.
- While active, up to three times when spell damage is absorbed, you are restored for X Magicka. This bonus increases by 3% for each piece of Light Armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of light armor equipped.

Evasion

Requires at least 1 medium armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 20% for 20 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Shuffle

Requires at least 1 medium armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 20% for 20 seconds.
- While wearing Medium Armor, removes and grant immunity to snaring effects. Increases snare immunity duration by ,5 seconds for each piece of Medium Armor equipped up to 3,5 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Elude

Requires at least 1 medium armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 20% for 20 seconds.
- Duration is increased 5% for each piece of Medium Armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 3,5 seconds for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Weesacs · April 2016

I have multiple clips of me tanking 5-10 people for minutes without permablock, I'll make sure to add a few of those to the build video

Even once had 5 people spending half an hour trying to kill me (I know that, because Shadowplay with 20min recording limit only caught half of it ) - all without any kind of permablocking (or much blocking in general).

You obviously play against scrubs or dont get affected by the broken CC much. Blocking stops ALL CC (except fear). You also have your templar set up to heal more than mine - im a pure tank (with off heals). Yes, I could change my set up to fit in with the changes to become more of a healer, but then, why should I?

Its a nerf to pure tanking and you know it.

DDuke · April 2016

Weesacs wrote: »

I have multiple clips of me tanking 5-10 people for minutes without permablock, I'll make sure to add a few of those to the build video

Even once had 5 people spending half an hour trying to kill me (I know that, because Shadowplay with 20min recording limit only caught half of it ) - all without any kind of permablocking (or much blocking in general).

You obviously play against scrubs or dont get affected by the broken CC much. Blocking stops ALL CC (except fear). You also have your templar set up to heal more than mine - im a pure tank (with off heals). Yes, I could change my set up to fit in with the changes to become more of a healer, but then, why should I?

Its a nerf to pure tanking and you know it.

There's no such thing as "pure tanking". There's just tanking - how you do it doesn't matter (whether you hold block or mitigate & outheal damage).

When you have atleast 28k health, 50%++ spell resistance, 40% physical resistance, 28.3% critical resistance & 18/14% reduced physical & spell damage from CPs, you can take CCs & sit for the whole duration of them without dying and then heal up with one or two button clicks. Of course there are times when you get CC'd at low health and you die, but such is life

Tanking is about mitigating damage & surviving it, not necessarily about taping down the right mouse button & being an useless sponge in the battlefield.

Ishammael · April 2016

Weesacs wrote: »

I have multiple clips of me tanking 5-10 people for minutes without permablock, I'll make sure to add a few of those to the build video

Even once had 5 people spending half an hour trying to kill me (I know that, because Shadowplay with 20min recording limit only caught half of it ) - all without any kind of permablocking (or much blocking in general).

You obviously play against scrubs or dont get affected by the broken CC much. Blocking stops ALL CC (except fear). You also have your templar set up to heal more than mine - im a pure tank (with off heals). Yes, I could change my set up to fit in with the changes to become more of a healer, but then, why should I?

Its a nerf to pure tanking and you know it.

So it went from "you can't do it" to
"it must have been scrubs"

I have a better answer: Decimus pays more attention to the game, what is possible, and gears accordingly. This is also known as being a good player.

Your response: "OMG I CANT PERMA BLOCK WAH WAH WAH"

Weesacs · April 2016

There's no such thing as "pure tanking". There's just tanking - how you do it doesn't matter (whether you hold block or mitigate & outheal damage).

When you have atleast 28k health, 50%++ spell resistance, 40% physical resistance, 28.3% critical resistance & 18/14% reduced physical & spell damage from CPs, you can take CCs & sit for the whole duration of them without dying and then heal up with one or two button clicks. Of course there are times when you get CC'd at low health and you die, but such is life

Tanking is about mitigating damage & surviving it, not necessarily about taping down the right mouse button & being an useless sponge in the battlefield.

By pure tanking I mean not healing (but I think you knew that anyway) - of course there are different ways to tank. Also, why is perma-blocking being a useless sponge? Many a times ive used perma-block to survive a zerg whilst my group picks off the enemies.

I use perma-block, your using perma-healing when its needed. Im geared to perma-block - why should a nerf (and again, its a nerf) make me have to change to be more healing spec to survive attacks from enemies?

There's nothing wrong with perma-blocking when its needed, just like theres nothing wrong with perma-healing when its needed - but then, this isnt about healing, this is about blocking.

So, for me to be able to tank successfully as I do when Im perma-blocking, I would need to re-gear and change to a more healing spec to compensate for less amount of blocks I could take - or trait sturdy but then im losing impenetrable.

As I said, its a nerf to tanking and you know it.

Weesacs · April 2016

So it went from "you can't do it" to
"it must have been scrubs"

I have a better answer: Decimus pays more attention to the game, what is possible, and gears accordingly. This is also known as being a good player.

Your response: "OMG I CANT PERMA BLOCK WAH WAH WAH"

lol - I gave you an awesome for your valuable input to the conversation

DDuke · April 2016

Weesacs wrote: »

There's no such thing as "pure tanking". There's just tanking - how you do it doesn't matter (whether you hold block or mitigate & outheal damage).

When you have atleast 28k health, 50%++ spell resistance, 40% physical resistance, 28.3% critical resistance & 18/14% reduced physical & spell damage from CPs, you can take CCs & sit for the whole duration of them without dying and then heal up with one or two button clicks. Of course there are times when you get CC'd at low health and you die, but such is life

Tanking is about mitigating damage & surviving it, not necessarily about taping down the right mouse button & being an useless sponge in the battlefield.

By pure tanking I mean not healing (but I think you knew that anyway) - of course there are different ways to tank. Also, why is perma-blocking being a useless sponge? Many a times ive used perma-block to survive a zerg whilst my group picks off the enemies.

I use perma-block, your using perma-healing when its needed. Im geared to perma-block - why should a nerf (and again, its a nerf) make me have to change to be more healing spec to survive attacks from enemies?

Because it's better? <.<

Weesacs wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with perma-blocking when its needed, just like theres nothing wrong with perma-healing when its needed - but then, this isnt about healing, this is about blocking.

Well yes, there is. And not only permablocking, but the whole "infinite resources" type of gameplay - it's not engaging. If all you have to do is hold down one button to survive, there's a problem.

Block should be meant as more of a reactive/situational ability, which you use when needed (not all the time), which is what I believe the developers are aiming at.

Then again, the same arguments could be said about damage shields...

Weesacs wrote: »

So, for me to be able to tank successfully as I do when Im perma-blocking, I would need to re-gear and change to a more healing spec to compensate for less amount of blocks I could take - or trait sturdy but then im losing impenetrable.

As I said, its a nerf to tanking and you know it.

As a side note, why would you use Impenetrable if you're playing a permablock build? You are aware that people can't crit you at all while you block, right (unless I've missed some patch notes again)?

It's not a nerf to tanking, it's a nerf to permablocking and the "infinite resources" type of gameplay.

Weesacs · April 2016

Because it's better? <.<

Yeah, if this nerf goes in.

Well yes, there is. And not only permablocking, but the whole "infinite resources" type of gameplay - it's not engaging. If all you have to do is hold down one button to survive, there's a problem.

I totally agree with you, however some of the builds out there can indefinitely spam skills without affecting their resources much (as previously mentioned a DK wrecking-blow spammer) and for me to compensate against this, I perma-block their attacks (or in your case, I could out-heal it, but again, this is about blocking)

Block should be meant as more of a reactive/situational ability, which you use when needed (not all the time), which is what I believe the developers are aiming at.

I dont use it all the time, I only use it when im getting heavily attacked. Perma-blocking is my counter to getting perma-DPS'd. I hit like a wet-noodle, and my heals are OK at best but I can sure take a beating (between blocking, my OK heals and my high mitigation).

As a side note, why would you use Impenetrable if you're playing a permablock build? You are aware that people can't crit you at all while you block, right (unless I've missed some patch notes again)?

The CC in this game is heavily broken ... check out this video:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZyImr1nNySA

By having impenetrable slotted it helps me survive when Im CC'd (and NBs can still fear you when blocking)

It's not a nerf to tanking, it's a nerf to permablocking.

OK, but its still a nerf, which affects my survivability in PvP

Greydir · April 2016

Sorry guys, but this discussion is degrading from the Topic being about Bracing and Block costs towards the viability of different Tank builds and Play styles in PvP only.

I get it that there are viable and maybe even good Builds for PvP Tanks and HA Hybrid DPs but the core of it is: The Place where Tanks are really needed in This game are the Endgame Trials in PvE. Nearly all other content is sadly easily playable without a dedicated Tank, more so after the Nerfs to vWGT, vICP and vCoA.

This leaves the only PvE Tanking to be done the Trials, be it the Axes in the Archive, the Warrior in Hel-Ra, the Manticora or the Serpent in Sanctum or nearly every Pull in vMoL.
Since a good Number of those encounters can one-shot a Tank with mitigation via Armor if the Tank is not blocking all the time the Nerf is happening there.

The impact on players, that play Raidcontent is huge, and hugely expensive too. I do not think that Tanking will be outright impossible after the changes, but that the hurdles to get into Tanking in a PvE environment are getting even higher, so the playerbase playing Tanks wears thin. This makes this change a huge expense for the PvE players, which will in turn lead to the PvE content further being watered down to counteract the sudden and steep Learning curve. This perpetual cycle of nerfs to content following Nerfs to Important elements of group play will lead to people being fed up with a game holding no real Mechanic apart from stack and burn anymore.

This in turn leads to the ongoing PvP vs PvE discussion, which will in this case neither benefit the game nor its community.

MrTarkanian48 · April 2016

I propose they just leave the 20% cost reduction in with the new Wrath passive.

I do not think this 200 extra Weapon Damage is suddenly going to make tanks face-roll damage machines.

Give them them both the block cost reduction, and the situation dependent damage boost.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

Make more sense that the heavy armor skill line its made mostly for survival.For tanks.Why take out the best survival effect in this skill line for a DPS effect?Most true pve tanks dont care about doing DPS.

You guys made a tank feedback thread some time ago in which the purpose of it,I think,was to improve the pve Tank role which is vanishing from the game.Most of the feedback by tank players point out that the issue with tanking is the burst damage meta that the game unintentionally shifted to because of past decisions.Yes,there are a few players pointing out that tanks do little damage,but even those players recognize in their post that damage its not the main purpose for a tank.So why then you do the opposite of what we wanted and eliminate tank survival for more DPS?Its like you guys want to slowly force us tanks to play DPS.Its like you guys are unable to fix the root of the problem and are now slowly eliminating the tank role.

Its that what you are planning on doing?Eliminating the tank role?

In the whole big tank feedback thread you guys didnt interact with us to discuss our feedback and what you guys are planning in any way.You guys just let us give our opinion while you guys took decisions without discusing it with us.Now you made a really bad decision that will make tanks more useless.Would it hasnt been better if you guys told us that you where going to change Bracing before you guys implement it.

And before a player comes here saying that we have sturdy to compensate,let me tell you,thats another issue.Now every tank is forced to put sturdy in their gear and give up their favorite trait.Not only that,now tanks forced to sturdy their gear is like a tank that dont have traits,because we are forced to fill with sturdy what we previously already had with bracing.And in exchange we get DPS?

I really thing you guys need to reconcider the bracing change if you really care about tanks.And next time communicate more with us when you ask us for feedback.Im very dissapointed.

pardon my bad english

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

DDuke wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I don't know where ZOS gets the idea that people (who know how to play this game) want these idiotic hybrid builds. DPS in heavy armor? Why? Heavy armor is for tanking. Removing the most important tanking passive in heavy armor and replacing it with this hybrid nonsense? What in bloody blazes was @Wrobel thinking?!

And, no, Constitution is not suitable compensation for the simple fact that it does not scale. It's a flat resource return every X seconds, regardless of how many things are beating on you. Contrast that with block cost reduction, which reduces the cost of every block (vs. reducing the cost of one block every X seconds). If you're tanking a single enemy, sure, Constitution makes up for the difference. But if you are tanking those Trash Pulls From Hell in vMoL where there's a gazillion things beating on your, Constitution is a joke.

I urge you to take a look at several RPG archetypes, such as "Warrior" or "Paladin", which have always traditionally used heavy armor while dealing damage.

Shoehorning damage dealers into either becoming "rogues" or "mages" helps nobody & monotonizes the game.

I'm happy that after 2 years, ZOS is finally taking some steps to alleviate this problem.

Also, as I've stated numerous times in this thread: you do not need to tape down RMB to tank in this game. If you do, you're doing something wrong.

vMoL & possibly new SO might be a different story, but people will adapt & survive. Just like they did when "tanking died" after they removed stamina regen while blocking.

By putting brackets in " tanking died" are you implaying that tanking are not dying and there are many of them in game?You living under a rock? Why you think ZOS even made a thread to improve them?

DDuke · April 2016

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I don't know where ZOS gets the idea that people (who know how to play this game) want these idiotic hybrid builds. DPS in heavy armor? Why? Heavy armor is for tanking. Removing the most important tanking passive in heavy armor and replacing it with this hybrid nonsense? What in bloody blazes was @Wrobel thinking?!

And, no, Constitution is not suitable compensation for the simple fact that it does not scale. It's a flat resource return every X seconds, regardless of how many things are beating on you. Contrast that with block cost reduction, which reduces the cost of every block (vs. reducing the cost of one block every X seconds). If you're tanking a single enemy, sure, Constitution makes up for the difference. But if you are tanking those Trash Pulls From Hell in vMoL where there's a gazillion things beating on your, Constitution is a joke.

I urge you to take a look at several RPG archetypes, such as "Warrior" or "Paladin", which have always traditionally used heavy armor while dealing damage.

Shoehorning damage dealers into either becoming "rogues" or "mages" helps nobody & monotonizes the game.

I'm happy that after 2 years, ZOS is finally taking some steps to alleviate this problem.

Also, as I've stated numerous times in this thread: you do not need to tape down RMB to tank in this game. If you do, you're doing something wrong.

vMoL & possibly new SO might be a different story, but people will adapt & survive. Just like they did when "tanking died" after they removed stamina regen while blocking.

By putting brackets in " tanking died" are you implaying that tanking are not dying and there are many of them in game?You living under a rock? Why you think ZOS even made a thread to improve them?

Yes, and I actually think there's starting to be more & more different tank builds in the game.

Peronally, two of my four V16 characters are tanks, and neither of them is a permablocker or in any significant way hampered by this change to Bracing

The buffs tanks are getting in this patch greatly outweigh the cons, unless all you do is hold right mouse button.

It's good ZOS made that thread on how to improve tanking even further, just like they made feedback threads on almost everything else.

code65536 · April 2016

DDuke wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I don't know where ZOS gets the idea that people (who know how to play this game) want these idiotic hybrid builds. DPS in heavy armor? Why? Heavy armor is for tanking. Removing the most important tanking passive in heavy armor and replacing it with this hybrid nonsense? What in bloody blazes was @Wrobel thinking?!

And, no, Constitution is not suitable compensation for the simple fact that it does not scale. It's a flat resource return every X seconds, regardless of how many things are beating on you. Contrast that with block cost reduction, which reduces the cost of every block (vs. reducing the cost of one block every X seconds). If you're tanking a single enemy, sure, Constitution makes up for the difference. But if you are tanking those Trash Pulls From Hell in vMoL where there's a gazillion things beating on your, Constitution is a joke.

I urge you to take a look at several RPG archetypes, such as "Warrior" or "Paladin", which have always traditionally used heavy armor while dealing damage.

Shoehorning damage dealers into either becoming "rogues" or "mages" helps nobody & monotonizes the game.

I'm happy that after 2 years, ZOS is finally taking some steps to alleviate this problem.

Also, as I've stated numerous times in this thread: you do not need to tape down RMB to tank in this game. If you do, you're doing something wrong.

vMoL & possibly new SO might be a different story, but people will adapt & survive. Just like they did when "tanking died" after they removed stamina regen while blocking.

By putting brackets in " tanking died" are you implaying that tanking are not dying and there are many of them in game?You living under a rock? Why you think ZOS even made a thread to improve them?

Yes, and I actually think there's starting to be more & more different tank builds in the game.

Peronally, two of my four V16 characters are tanks, and neither of them is a permablocker or in any significant way hampered by this change to Bracing

The buffs tanks are getting in this patch greatly outweigh the cons, unless all you do is hold right mouse button.

It's good ZOS made that thread on how to improve tanking even further, just like they made feedback threads on almost everything else.

And have your tanks survived the AA axes or the vMoL pulls? Or are they PvP "tanks"?

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

The worst thing its they say nothing.Not even a hint on why the change was made.

I think that people have mostly figured it out.

There were some people that wanted more damage as a tank and most of the top tier talks about increasing tank damage. For some reason the developers took that as a signal to remove the best heavy armor passive. I understand where they got the signal from, but I have no idea why they honed in on the best heavy armor passive and I hope that we can convince them that we can live in a world with both the bracing passive and the new sturdy trait. If we can't then just get rid of the sturdy trait - nobody is going to end up happy as a result of the muddied trait pool screwing up their otherwise BIS gear.

Make sense.But I think the ones in the tank feedback thread that wanted more damage as tanks where very few and even some of them recognize in their own post that damage as a tank,even if they want it,was not the main purpose of a tank.

I think the real issue is ZOS not knowing how to filter feedback and lack of communication even in their own threads.I mean they ask us for feedback in a thread but then you dont hear them anymore in that thread.Like discussing our ideas and more importantly their plan based on our feedback.Would have been nice if they had let us know in that thread the change to bracing before sitting to work on it.Now they prolly wont change it because they already spend time on resources implementing the change.Sad,pretty sad.

DDuke · April 2016

code65536 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I don't know where ZOS gets the idea that people (who know how to play this game) want these idiotic hybrid builds. DPS in heavy armor? Why? Heavy armor is for tanking. Removing the most important tanking passive in heavy armor and replacing it with this hybrid nonsense? What in bloody blazes was @Wrobel thinking?!

And, no, Constitution is not suitable compensation for the simple fact that it does not scale. It's a flat resource return every X seconds, regardless of how many things are beating on you. Contrast that with block cost reduction, which reduces the cost of every block (vs. reducing the cost of one block every X seconds). If you're tanking a single enemy, sure, Constitution makes up for the difference. But if you are tanking those Trash Pulls From Hell in vMoL where there's a gazillion things beating on your, Constitution is a joke.

I urge you to take a look at several RPG archetypes, such as "Warrior" or "Paladin", which have always traditionally used heavy armor while dealing damage.

Shoehorning damage dealers into either becoming "rogues" or "mages" helps nobody & monotonizes the game.

I'm happy that after 2 years, ZOS is finally taking some steps to alleviate this problem.

Also, as I've stated numerous times in this thread: you do not need to tape down RMB to tank in this game. If you do, you're doing something wrong.

vMoL & possibly new SO might be a different story, but people will adapt & survive. Just like they did when "tanking died" after they removed stamina regen while blocking.

By putting brackets in " tanking died" are you implaying that tanking are not dying and there are many of them in game?You living under a rock? Why you think ZOS even made a thread to improve them?

Yes, and I actually think there's starting to be more & more different tank builds in the game.

Peronally, two of my four V16 characters are tanks, and neither of them is a permablocker or in any significant way hampered by this change to Bracing

The buffs tanks are getting in this patch greatly outweigh the cons, unless all you do is hold right mouse button.

It's good ZOS made that thread on how to improve tanking even further, just like they made feedback threads on almost everything else.

And have your tanks survived the AA axes or the vMoL pulls? Or are they PvP "tanks"?

I haven't tanked trials with them (only done all 4-man content), but I know AA axes are more than doable (as they don't one shot you), though the boss dies so fast it doesn't matter what you do tbh <.<.

I do agree that atleast Rakkhat in vMoL probably requires you to permablock (or well, you can probably squeeze in a light/heavy attack between boss attacks if you're good, though it's risky).

Mob pulls... well, considering those Shadowguard AoEs one shot my stamblade even when he blocks, I'd say you probably want to hold block there as well

Whatever the case, they'll still be doable (I will again refer you to the people claiming AA hardmode would become impossible after regen nerf) - in 12-man content you have templars & synergies to keep your stamina up.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

This change to Bracing looks like more in favor of heavy armor DPS builds which i think you only find them in PvP.If that is the case then we can say that all this mess up with bracing and pve tanking nerf is a result ,again,of not separating pvp and pve when trying to balance.

Also im getting sick of this huge changes every new update.When you are just finishing adapting to new changes,boom another update with big changes.Common,im getting tired of that.Make me think,is ZOS using those big changes as a selling point to keep player in the game? lol,pathetic if thats the case.People are going to get sick i tell you that.Seems like the game gets unbalanced in a big way in every update.

code65536 · April 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Whatever the case, they'll still be doable (I will again refer you to the people claiming AA hardmode would become impossible after regen nerf)

In other words, we should tell tanks, "Screw you, go deal with it."

Yea, we don't find that to be fun.

This gives tanking an even steeper learning curve and further exacerbates the problem of the low tanking population.

Oh, and no other role in the game is getting such a serious change that they'll have to recraft or refarm (if used dropped pieces) their gear just to "adapt". Maybe if we had a trait change system, this wouldn't be so bad.

It's no surprise that people are crying bloody murder over this bullsh*t.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

Greydir wrote: »

Sorry guys, but this discussion is degrading from the Topic being about Bracing and Block costs towards the viability of different Tank builds and Play styles in PvP only.

I get it that there are viable and maybe even good Builds for PvP Tanks and HA Hybrid DPs but the core of it is: The Place where Tanks are really needed in This game are the Endgame Trials in PvE. Nearly all other content is sadly easily playable without a dedicated Tank, more so after the Nerfs to vWGT, vICP and vCoA.

This leaves the only PvE Tanking to be done the Trials, be it the Axes in the Archive, the Warrior in Hel-Ra, the Manticora or the Serpent in Sanctum or nearly every Pull in vMoL.
Since a good Number of those encounters can one-shot a Tank with mitigation via Armor if the Tank is not blocking all the time the Nerf is happening there.

The impact on players, that play Raidcontent is huge, and hugely expensive too. I do not think that Tanking will be outright impossible after the changes, but that the hurdles to get into Tanking in a PvE environment are getting even higher, so the playerbase playing Tanks wears thin. This makes this change a huge expense for the PvE players, which will in turn lead to the PvE content further being watered down to counteract the sudden and steep Learning curve. This perpetual cycle of nerfs to content following Nerfs to Important elements of group play will lead to people being fed up with a game holding no real Mechanic apart from stack and burn anymore.

This in turn leads to the ongoing PvP vs PvE discussion, which will in this case neither benefit the game nor its community.

Well said.Nice post.

Weesacs · April 2016

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

This change to Bracing looks like more in favor of heavy armor DPS builds which i think you only find them in PvP..

It doesnt favour all PvP tanks - see my posts above for more details. But yeah, I agree, it definitely helps with PvP HA DPS builds

Dyride · April 2016

Soris wrote: »

Imo HA should offer more health. Passive gives 10% health with 5 piece, it should give 20% at least.

Don't be silly. It is already possible to get 60K health or more this patch and people will be getting even higher next.

Autolycus · April 2016

The value of glyphs have been buffed in the DB update; Is this exclusively for weapon enchants, or all enchants?

Can someone with the PTS please let me know what the amount of block cost reduction is awarded for a "champion 160 equivalent" jewelry glyph?

VaxtinTheWolf · April 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

The value of glyphs have been buffed in the DB update; Is this exclusively for weapon enchants, or all enchants?

Can someone with the PTS please let me know what the amount of block cost reduction is awarded for a "champion 160 equivalent" jewelry glyph?

I recently bought footmans before I downloaded the PTS. It's c140 gear, purple quality. The ring enchant is shield play reducing bash cost by 279, and blocking by 186.

code65536 · April 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

The value of glyphs have been buffed in the DB update; Is this exclusively for weapon enchants, or all enchants?

Can someone with the PTS please let me know what the amount of block cost reduction is awarded for a "champion 160 equivalent" jewelry glyph?

It's exclusively for weapons enchants.

Every single one of my VR16/CP160 jewelry enchants--including the block-cost reduction ones--have the exact same numerical values on PTS as they do on Live.