Restore Bracing - Never Ask for Buffs

Zabus

Let's just remove tanking from the game while we're at it!

DDuke

Zabus wrote: »

Let's just remove tanking from the game while we're at it!

Tanking=/=Permablocking

Just saying this once again before some new player listens to this gospel & starts thinking they have to tape down right mouse button in order to "tank".

Tanking got buffed

Permablocking got nerfed

Personofsecrets

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

I've never required any block cost reduction jewelry on either of my two V16 tanks. Maybe re-evaluate your build to require less RMB?

Sweeps as a templar tank, Inhale as DK or Sap as NB work to give you some examples on how to survive trash pulls for instance.

Where tanks excel is mitigation (and that is what is getting buffed), use that to your advantage.

dodgehopper_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

I have multiple clips of me tanking 5-10 people for minutes without permablock, I'll make sure to add a few of those to the build video

Even once had 5 people spending half an hour trying to kill me (I know that, because Shadowplay with 20min recording limit only caught half of it ) - all without any kind of permablocking (or much blocking in general).

You obviously play against scrubs or dont get affected by the broken CC much. Blocking stops ALL CC (except fear). You also have your templar set up to heal more than mine - im a pure tank (with off heals). Yes, I could change my set up to fit in with the changes to become more of a healer, but then, why should I?

Its a nerf to pure tanking and you know it.

There's no such thing as "pure tanking". There's just tanking - how you do it doesn't matter (whether you hold block or mitigate & outheal damage).

When you have atleast 28k health, 50%++ spell resistance, 40% physical resistance, 28.3% critical resistance & 18/14% reduced physical & spell damage from CPs, you can take CCs & sit for the whole duration of them without dying and then heal up with one or two button clicks. Of course there are times when you get CC'd at low health and you die, but such is life

Tanking is about mitigating damage & surviving it, not necessarily about taping down the right mouse button & being an useless sponge in the battlefield.

In fairness here, you're suggesting that the Magplar build is better. In that respect I agree with you, but I understand his sentiment that it is unfortunate that the 'Warrior' spec gets its teeth kicked in here. I see where he's coming from and I mirror his concerns, although to be honest I was planning to switch over to a build design similar to what you are using, in large part because I know it works. The only reason I haven't switched in the last few months is that I'm enjoying the TG content, and trying to mop up the last couple of achievements I need, and to do that well a big stamina pool is more effective. I'm also having fun with my Stamplar even though I feel my Stamblade is better at the role. You are right though, that vale tudo applies here 'Whatever works'. Currently the heal oriented build is what works best in this scenario.

dodgehopper_ESO

One other point I think that is worth considering is that it would seem they are trying to increase the value of the armor itself and devalue the shield. On top end content though as people are saying things could get a bit dicey still. I do believe that the notion of better armor, weaker shield was what people were asking for, though the approach of the devs is to give it to us in a way different than was asked. It is quite possible they will downgrade the spikes of damage you receive, and in fact I do recall reading a post on that very topic in recent days by the developers. It makes sense the tank is better at handling a concerted barrage of attacks, with or without his shield up. I do believe it is there intend to avoid the commonality of players getting 'spiked' because the only way of surviving is holding your shield up at all times. To that end I think it would be a good change for the game, because honestly that is stupid.

DDuke

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

I have multiple clips of me tanking 5-10 people for minutes without permablock, I'll make sure to add a few of those to the build video

Even once had 5 people spending half an hour trying to kill me (I know that, because Shadowplay with 20min recording limit only caught half of it ) - all without any kind of permablocking (or much blocking in general).

You obviously play against scrubs or dont get affected by the broken CC much. Blocking stops ALL CC (except fear). You also have your templar set up to heal more than mine - im a pure tank (with off heals). Yes, I could change my set up to fit in with the changes to become more of a healer, but then, why should I?

Its a nerf to pure tanking and you know it.

There's no such thing as "pure tanking". There's just tanking - how you do it doesn't matter (whether you hold block or mitigate & outheal damage).

When you have atleast 28k health, 50%++ spell resistance, 40% physical resistance, 28.3% critical resistance & 18/14% reduced physical & spell damage from CPs, you can take CCs & sit for the whole duration of them without dying and then heal up with one or two button clicks. Of course there are times when you get CC'd at low health and you die, but such is life

Tanking is about mitigating damage & surviving it, not necessarily about taping down the right mouse button & being an useless sponge in the battlefield.

In fairness here, you're suggesting that the Magplar build is better. In that respect I agree with you, but I understand his sentiment that it is unfortunate that the 'Warrior' spec gets its teeth kicked in here. I see where he's coming from and I mirror his concerns, although to be honest I was planning to switch over to a build design similar to what you are using, in large part because I know it works. The only reason I haven't switched in the last few months is that I'm enjoying the TG content, and trying to mop up the last couple of achievements I need, and to do that well a big stamina pool is more effective. I'm also having fun with my Stamplar even though I feel my Stamblade is better at the role. You are right though, that vale tudo applies here 'Whatever works'. Currently the heal oriented build is what works best in this scenario.

Oh, I'm fairly sure you can make heavy armor stamplar work as well

You'll just have to base your defense on mitigation rather than roll dodges (that's the main difference).


It's kind of why I'm still commenting here - we won't ever find out about all these different, fun builds if people stay fixated on the idea that tanking=permablocking.



All the change in this patch means is that people have to hold block for 20% shorter duration - and then you'll get your stamina back way faster than before thanks to the changed Constitution passive.

Woeler

Wow this thread turned stupid really fast. Every time these tanking topics are made they turn into one big whine. No arguments, no numbers, no videos, no screenshots, just plain damn whining.

Yes some things changed and yes we need to see what it means, but really there is no need that every damn 3rd post there is some half-wit calling out "We got nerfed so bad boohoo!". You think you are helping all of us with your nonsense? No, of course not. For those who can't stop whining hit me a pm and I'll buy you a box of *** tissues.

It's not a nerf, it's a change. And as far as I've been testing my gut tells me not much has changed IN THE END. The difference I saw was in how much the stamina fluctuates due to the new passives. More out, but also more in, but the end value seemed about the same. I was able to do what I did before without noticing a big difference, and I'm not running any sturdy.

BUT if you find an change, a negative one in particular then PLEASE be constructive, post your findings and be open to discuss things.

FYI saying nerf 27 times on one page is not a summoning ritual for @ZOS_RichLambert or anything

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

I've never required any block cost reduction jewelry on either of my two V16 tanks. Maybe re-evaluate your build to require less RMB?

Sweeps as a templar tank, Inhale as DK or Sap as NB work to give you some examples on how to survive trash pulls for instance.

Where tanks excel is mitigation (and that is what is getting buffed), use that to your advantage.

Don't straw man. I've not said anything that I require and you therefore can't know what I use or don't use. You make this type of argument all of the time and it is dishonest of you.

Nobody cares about trash pulls. Why are you talking about trash pulls?

How is damage mitigation being buffed by the removal of bracing? There are many ways that such a change will cause future tanks to take more damage.

DDuke

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

One other point I think that is worth considering is that it would seem they are trying to increase the value of the armor itself and devalue the shield. On top end content though as people are saying things could get a bit dicey still. I do believe that the notion of better armor, weaker shield was what people were asking for, though the approach of the devs is to give it to us in a way different than was asked. It is quite possible they will downgrade the spikes of damage you receive, and in fact I do recall reading a post on that very topic in recent days by the developers. It makes sense the tank is better at handling a concerted barrage of attacks, with or without his shield up. I do believe it is there intend to avoid the commonality of players getting 'spiked' because the only way of surviving is holding your shield up at all times. To that end I think it would be a good change for the game, because honestly that is stupid.

Yes, totally agreed.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

I've never required any block cost reduction jewelry on either of my two V16 tanks. Maybe re-evaluate your build to require less RMB?

Sweeps as a templar tank, Inhale as DK or Sap as NB work to give you some examples on how to survive trash pulls for instance.

Where tanks excel is mitigation (and that is what is getting buffed), use that to your advantage.

Don't straw man. I've not said anything that I require and you therefore can't know what I use or don't use. You make this type of argument all of the time and it is dishonest of you.

Nobody cares about trash pulls. Why are you talking about trash pulls?

How is damage mitigation being buffed by the removal of bracing? There are many ways that such a change will cause future tanks to take more damage.

Alright, no need to get defensive - just trying to help

I was talking about trash pulls, because that's the only place where you'll really notice the blocks taking 20% more stamina. Well, trash pulls & maybe gatling gun from Rakkhat in vMoL.

More health=less blocking required

Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.

More healing received=less blocking required

Rapid Mending: Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%

Defending trait also got buffed significantly, now granting around 2% more mitigation.

Buffed nirnhoned armor trait also gives more mitigation now (haven't calculated how much you get in total yet).

SirSilverMask

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

I've never required any block cost reduction jewelry on either of my two V16 tanks. Maybe re-evaluate your build to require less RMB?

Sweeps as a templar tank, Inhale as DK or Sap as NB work to give you some examples on how to survive trash pulls for instance.

Where tanks excel is mitigation (and that is what is getting buffed), use that to your advantage.

You already admitted that you don't tank trials, and that is where the nerf is being felt most, so it doesn't matter what you require or don't require, because you have never done it. It is a nerf and it is making it harder for tanks to manage larger groups of adds in trials. Yes current tanks will adapt, but it makes it harder to bring in new players and weakens the overall game. Don't use your pvp and the current weak 4 man dungeons to say that tanking is in a fine spot, because it is being nerfed and unless changes happen will continue to turn the game more and more into a plain dps race with all content only needing damage dealers.

SienneYviete

Initial seat of the pants feeling for me is on solo boss fights like mantikora the serpent or warrior i'm getting more stam back than what is getting used even while perma blocking. Yet to try vmol on pts but I would say that on the trash i'm going to be watching my stam bar more than ever. No biggie though some gear and cp adjustments and I will be good to go.

DDuke

SirSilverMask wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

I've never required any block cost reduction jewelry on either of my two V16 tanks. Maybe re-evaluate your build to require less RMB?

Sweeps as a templar tank, Inhale as DK or Sap as NB work to give you some examples on how to survive trash pulls for instance.

Where tanks excel is mitigation (and that is what is getting buffed), use that to your advantage.

You already admitted that you don't tank trials, and that is where the nerf is being felt most, so it doesn't matter what you require or don't require, because you have never done it. It is a nerf and it is making it harder for tanks to manage larger groups of adds in trials. Yes current tanks will adapt, but it makes it harder to bring in new players and weakens the overall game. Don't use your pvp and the current weak 4 man dungeons to say that tanking is in a fine spot, because it is being nerfed and unless changes happen will continue to turn the game more and more into a plain dps race with all content only needing damage dealers.

Well, it's not like DPSing or healing in places like vMoL is any easier or more welcoming, so I don't know where you're aiming at with that <.<

If you really must, say that trials tanking is getting "nerfed" (I'd prefer saying "more difficult" ). I'm probably not even disagreeing with that.

But saying that "tanking is getting nerfed" is disingenuous at best, since the statement only applies to fraction of the content (elsewhere it's getting buffed instead).

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

One other point I think that is worth considering is that it would seem they are trying to increase the value of the armor itself and devalue the shield. On top end content though as people are saying things could get a bit dicey still. I do believe that the notion of better armor, weaker shield was what people were asking for, though the approach of the devs is to give it to us in a way different than was asked. It is quite possible they will downgrade the spikes of damage you receive, and in fact I do recall reading a post on that very topic in recent days by the developers. It makes sense the tank is better at handling a concerted barrage of attacks, with or without his shield up. I do believe it is there intend to avoid the commonality of players getting 'spiked' because the only way of surviving is holding your shield up at all times. To that end I think it would be a good change for the game, because honestly that is stupid.

Yes, totally agreed.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

Tanking got nerfed. Players lost 2 enchants of block cost for 1.5 situational enchant worth of damage. That is an overall power loss and especially so because of how efficient the bracing passive is and how inefficient it is for most tanks to add damage to their build. Stop derailing the thread with semantics.

This is for you too @Wrobel . You are not helping tanks.

I've never required any block cost reduction jewelry on either of my two V16 tanks. Maybe re-evaluate your build to require less RMB?

Sweeps as a templar tank, Inhale as DK or Sap as NB work to give you some examples on how to survive trash pulls for instance.

Where tanks excel is mitigation (and that is what is getting buffed), use that to your advantage.

Don't straw man. I've not said anything that I require and you therefore can't know what I use or don't use. You make this type of argument all of the time and it is dishonest of you.

Nobody cares about trash pulls. Why are you talking about trash pulls?

How is damage mitigation being buffed by the removal of bracing? There are many ways that such a change will cause future tanks to take more damage.

Alright, no need to get defensive - just trying to help

I was talking about trash pulls, because that's the only place where you'll really notice the blocks taking 20% more stamina. Well, trash pulls & maybe gatling gun from Rakkhat in vMoL.

More health=less blocking required

Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.

More healing received=less blocking required

Rapid Mending: Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%

Defending trait also got buffed significantly, now granting around 2% more mitigation.

Buffed nirnhoned armor trait also gives more mitigation now (haven't calculated how much you get in total yet).

There are several effects in vMOL that add up to block cost being used. Some of the trash pull, you correctly identify, do add up, but blocking multiple enemies is also common on the second boss.

There is also the case of what seems to be DOTs being blocked and costing stamina. I'm not totally sure if this is intended or not. None of us are also sure about what types of fights will be planned for the future and the types of resource management that we may want for them. In some ways tanking is made more challenging when stamina management is changed (and sometimes in not meaningful ways), but also there are going to be times when fights, in the future, aren't going to be made in certain ways because the development team will see those fights as too tough on stamina.

To sum the above ideas up, there are times now that the bracing change will be a nerf and I also see it as being a potential nerf for future fights. At the same time, perhaps tanking becomes more challenging, but the development team may hold off on making content that could be challenging because of limitations on resource management.

Anyhow, you correctly point out that defending will be better (for 99% of people), but I doubt that anyone will be using defending as the meta will shift to weighted. For that reason I can't consider that particular change a strict buff.

As far as having more health and healing received, those stats are exchangeable via the infused trait and champion point system (respectively). In the world without bracing, where people have to use other forms of block cost reduction, there are cases when they will be cost health and healing gained. I may go as far to argue that the loss of bracing alone is enough to nullify the other buffs if we were to try to get our old block cost back. I will calculate this effect more precisely in the upcoming week. Finally, perhaps nirnhoned will be good, but nirnhoned might not matter much if sturdy is more necessary.

SirSilverMask

SienneYviete wrote: »

Initial seat of the pants feeling for me is on solo boss fights like mantikora the serpent or warrior i'm getting more stam back than what is getting used even while perma blocking. Yet to try vmol on pts but I would say that on the trash i'm going to be watching my stam bar more than ever. No biggie though some gear and cp adjustments and I will be good to go.

The numbers do show that for solo boss fights, tanking is easier. Yes, the top level tanks will be able to make a few adjustments and adapt to the content, however the changes do not make it easier or desirable for more people to start tanking. If ZOS wants more people to use heavy armor and improve the group finder, they need to find a better way to make tanking more desirable and find ways to buff heavy armor, not nerf content and heavy armor.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

But saying that "tanking is getting nerfed" is disingenuous at best, since the statement only applies to fraction of the content (elsewhere it's getting buffed instead).

I can understand that perspective, but may disagree about the size of the fraction of the content that tanking is nerfed with respect to.

SirSilverMask

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

But saying that "tanking is getting nerfed" is disingenuous at best, since the statement only applies to fraction of the content (elsewhere it's getting buffed instead).

I can understand that perspective, but may disagree about the size of the fraction of the content that tanking is nerfed with respect to.

As Personofsecrets said the nerf applies to half the game, PvE tanking is being nerfed, and the PvE content is being nerfed. Instead of nerfing the content, find ways to improve a tanks ability to control the fight and entice more people to actually tank. The change of bracing to wrath further moves tanks away from what should be their role of damage mitigators and the ability to pull all the aggro possible and provide protection to everyone else in the group.
No matter what anyone says, the change is a nerf to tanking.

Personofsecrets

There are time in PVP when the bracing change will bad as well. On the optimist side, dueling may actually be better for tanks.

SirSilverMask

What percent of the population duels with a tank setup though? And is that really the percentage that you want to make happy?

Personofsecrets

Yes, it would be a small number of people benefited. Presumable there are more places were tanks are buffed, but I think the majority of time and, especially, the majority of times that matter, a nerf is happening. I will put together something more comprehensive in the upcoming week after I run some numbers on champion points and damage output.

SirSilverMask

Here is another concept keeping in line with the changes to Heavy Armor.
Change constitution so it can activate x times every 4 seconds where x is the number of enemies hitting the tank.
This change does not change the current setup at all when the tank is only aggroing a single boss, and actually rewards tanks for doing their job and pulling aggro from more enemies.

zerosingularity

I can't keep up with all the stuff going on in this thread, but the only 2 buffs tanks got was more HP (not by much) and more stam return (From fully charged heavies, lol, and Constitution.) Meanwhile we lost significant sustain. Yes in a 1v1 fight on some bosses its not an issue, but on others don't joke around, it is a problem.

To anyone who claims that defending got a buff, no one cares. It was possible to be at hard cap before, making it easier doesn't compensate for the fact that our sustain took a hit. It is more competitive to other traits yes, but alot of tanks will probably use weighted.

If we cannot get Bracing fixed, Constitution needs a buff, especially considering a single boss can hit you a lot more than you might think, and more hp doesn't always help survive. (It's why you need to block some attacks.)

HoloYoitsu

Wrobel has demonstrated that he does not grasp the purpose of heavy armor at the most fundamental level, so don't expect any kind of action to address the Bracing nerf. It will end up the like the old reduced CC break cost, removed from Heavy armor and thrown somewhere else.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Heavy Armor needs to be useful for tanking, but also effective at dealing damage.

LorDrek

Tanking in this game is joke, on 95% bosess dont need block, when in heavy. Only trials, vvgt, vicp, vcoa, other dungeons hahahaha.

Liofa

This thread needs this :

If you are talking about PvE tanking , say it . By PvE I mean every aspect of PvE . Everything from normal dungeons to hardest trials . If you are talking about PvP . Say it . Like this :

(PvE) I don't think Constitution makes up for the Bracing because we are losing all the traits we are using right now ( Divines , Infused etc. ) and this will reduce our sustain even more . Also making sturdy getting its share from diminishing returns ? You must really hate tanks . My character on Live server (stamina DK tank) requires around 470 stamina for every block . 75 point to Block Expertise and Absorb Magic and 3 v14 purple shield-play enchant (footman) . Nothing else . Now I hear in PTS , it requires about 700 stamina for every block . Are you kidding ? More than half of the tanks in this game yelling for shards already . Just because few people creates perma-blocking builds for trials and you are nerfing blocking ? How do you expect new players going to play tanks with this kind of treatment ? You increased the base cost , you take away cost reduction passives and gave us damage bonuses . It is time that you start thinking differently for PvE and PvP , ZOS .

(PvP) Heavy armor will increase your Resist values . Sure . Let's take a look at the other armor types . Medium Armor gives you cost reduction for roll dodges and CC breaks . Which are much more important in PvP due to insane Penetration values you can get and 90% players playing a burst build . Also gives you sustain . Oh look , also gives insane offensive bonuses ! Don't even get me started with Light Armor . Penetration ? Check . Critical ? Check . Sustain ? Oh yes , check . If you say Light armor doesn't give any defence , I don't even know what to say . Sustain = more shield casting . I am talking about 10k shields . Also heals . Do you really think 200 ( if combat lasts that long ) weapon and spell damage will make up for these differences ? It is really funny that in this game you are much more tanky in Medium or Light Armor . I tried tanking with Heavy . Yes , I can tank . But no damage . I switched to Medium Armor ( still using 1h/s ) and the difference is huge . I reach 2k Stamina Recovery , roll dodging to eternity , dealing much more damage and more criticals . More self-healing due to more weapon Damage and Max Stamina . When you say it is doable , it doesn't mean it is strong enough to compete . Just look at the game . How many people you know that use Heavy Armor ? Well , in 3 guilds I am in ( that has more than 450 players ) , players that use Heavy Armor , you can count with your fingers . Others , nah . They are just killing each other in 3-4 seconds while roll dodging or with 3 shields on themselves . You know why ? Because it is stronger and easier .

Here you go . Hope it helps to the thread to make more sense to readers .

Dubhliam

DDuke wrote: »

Zabus wrote: »

Let's just remove tanking from the game while we're at it!

Tanking=/=Permablocking

Just saying this once again before some new player listens to this gospel & starts thinking they have to tape down right mouse button in order to "tank".

Tanking got buffed

Permablocking got nerfed

Permablocking?
Seriously?
Tell me... how am I going to beat vICP without blocking? Every time I raise my shield, the stamina recovery is put on hold for another 2 seconds after I stop blocking. IF and only IF the boss was to attack only every 3 to 4 seconds, I'd have ONE tick of stamina regen.

IT GOT BUFFED?!!
ARE YOU INSANE?!!!

How does some lousy stacking weapon and spell damage help me in my role? (TANK)
Explain to me why tanks need damage please.
ENLIGHTEN ME.

You refuse to accept the fact that tanks got a nerf.
Not you ofc, you live in your own PvP immortal templar world, we should all bow to you, reroll a temp and copy your build.

LorDrek

When you know boss mechanik , you dont need perma block.

Jade1986

Xsorus wrote: »

The new Stamina/Magicka Return increase with heavy armor is super nice on PTS

was getting 1160 Back every 4 seconds

Well that helps when you lose 5000 stam every 1,5 seconds. : face palm :

Jade1986

Wing wrote: »

I also would put blame on the champion system. as a lot of the power of blocking has shifted to the flat resistances you can get up to 25%

THATS! why blocking is so nerfed.

if you could perma block. 50% mitigation from armor cap, 25% mitigation from CP, 50% (base) from blocking

note that does not = 125% as most things in gaming or not additive.


now I may not like it, I may want the return of stam regen while blocking (its still stupid, increase block cost fine but let us keep our regen) but this is just how the game is shaping up to be so we have to roll with it. . .but not dodge roll because that costs more now too.

Except dodge roll gets to keep their armor passive AND they get a trait for armor to reduce the cost of rolling. We only get the trait.

Dumb logic is dumb.

Cinbri

If Wrath will stay than Increase effectiveness of Wrath to 15/30 stacking 10 times from current 10/20.