I will say now why this tread has become either completely pointless or even "dangerous":
WHY DANGEROUS?
Because in the remote case that ZOS decides to listen to OP and makes the bag available in the Cash Shop they will totally *** off the great majority of the actual subscribers and they would lose a tons of players/subscribers/money to make some "random income guys" happy.
WHY POINTLESS?
Because if ZOS does not make the bag available in the Cash Shop... they will maybe lose a very few players that are a "non sure form of income" for the company, they will get those "not sure income" money back as a sure income from new subscribers and,, at the same time, the majority of people will completly forget this issue even existed with a little bit of time so... there will be absolutly no change for anyone but a very few number of people; and since it's crystal clear what would be the negative thing happening if they changed their mind now, you should just give up and close this tread because, as i already said, it's totally pointless since it will bring absolutly NO CHANGE in ANY POSSIBLE WAY, and will only keep generating flames because instead of beeing a constructive kind of tread, it's a personal war against ZOS from the very first post.
Give it up: no matter how long this discussion keeps going on you will never win because if you "win" it'll be a "lose-lose" situation for everyone were a few people will get a totally unnecessary item in term of ability to play the game in exchange for a massive decrease in subscribers for zenimax... and this will end up hindering the game even for the people, like the OP, that obtained their petty bag.
IT
WILL
NOT
HAPPEN
Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Just sell the crafting bags for 200.00 lifetime fee for those who want to whine and gnash about it being a sub only perk and saying it has to be in the crown store also.
Give them exactly what they want.
There's no way they would then whine about the price is there ?
Sure... just get zos to gimme back the $365 back I've already spent through B2P and I'll happily pay that as a lifetime fee while you lot continue to pay monthly
CaptainBeerDude wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Just sell the crafting bags for 200.00 lifetime fee for those who want to whine and gnash about it being a sub only perk and saying it has to be in the crown store also.
Give them exactly what they want.
There's no way they would then whine about the price is there ?
Sure... just get zos to gimme back the $365 back I've already spent through B2P and I'll happily pay that as a lifetime fee while you lot continue to pay monthly
@Tommy1979AtWar
Generally not how a business works, Buddy. Usually you only get a refund on a faulty item.
You seem to be under some sort of weird impression that an unlimited storage bag for crafting mats is for sale. This game has no such item. It has a very similar item which is avaliable to rent.
Also, your continued attempts to dazzle all and sundry with your extensive crown purchases are falling fairly flat. If you indeed spend that much on crowns, you are the extreme minority. I'm sure there are plenty of subscribers who have spent a similar quantity on this game, if not more. There is probably also a large number of subscribers who would have spent more. @GrumpStump for confirmation please. And now that I think of how many crowns that would get, did you just go to the crown store and order a menu?
You have some serious under estimations on the price of this as well. For a quick example, let's assume you own a house that you do not require for care of yourself or your family. You decide to rent it out, to turn a small income out of it. Someone comes up to you and says, "Well, I don't want to rent it. But I will buy it." Do you take the quick income spike now or do you decline the offer and continue to rent it out for the smaller but regular income.
If an unlimited crafting bag becomes avaliable in the crown store, the bare minimum price is the cost of subbing for a year. I think it would be more. A limited bag would probably be as much as assistants and probably be smaller than you want.
And before you start going on about how I must be a subber, sitting on my high horse, gazing at all the peons...
I don't sub. I also think this is a fantastic benefit for people who do. Hell, I want it so bad that I've almost gotten over having to pay 2 usage fees because console.
Now go try some other B2P or F2P games, see what they do for money and then return and let us know what you think of them. ESO+ is great because it doesn't give you an insurmountable advantage, just some QoL perks. Once they add another one that interests me, or buff the existing ones so that I like them more, they'll have me. Hook, line and sinker.
scorpiodog wrote: »I can live without crafting bags.
We don't have them now, after all.
But they could save people from logging in and out numerous times to move crafting materials between characters and the bank.
So a bonus, but only a time saver, not a game winner.
I'm really pumped for a lot of things coming along soon! The bag is inconsequential compared to the fun i'm going to be having with the new content.
But I sub. And as a subber i'm biased. And as a subber I think we need something nice and inconsequential to give us that incentive to keep subbing.
Some people want the bag for 5k crowns? Ok, here is what would happen if that were the case:
ZOS: Hey guys, we're putting the bag on the store for 5k crowns!
A tiny minority of non-sub: Awesome! Take my money (that I could have used on subbing or DLC)
The majority of non-sub: WT-actual-F ZO$.... you greedy sods! I'm done!
The majority of subs: WT-actual-F Zo$.... you betrayers, the sub is once again worthless, unsub!
You mileage may vary.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Psst the whole reason they are doing it for the subs is they want more people to sub. A reliable revenue stream is what you take to your higher ups (ya know those guys in suits who only care that the game is profitable) There should be some sort of option for non subs to get some sort of crafting bag even if its limited to like 100 slots. But since they are basing off of a revenue standpoint it may be awhile before we see that. If subs don't increase due to the bag, we can just about guarantee it will be available in the crown store.
You are trying to introduce logic and sound economic practices to a whining , bratty , I deserve what I want for what I want to pay for it , crowd that just cannot grasp such concepts.
"They don't agree with what I think, they must be whiny, bratty and entitled"
Sound logic.
It has nothing to do with what they agree with. It's has every thing to do with the fact that many people have been explaining exactly how the models work and where most of the money comes from to generate new content and fix bugs. Anyone who understand a basic business model knows that reliable income, even in smaller increments, is way more desirable than a sporadic income. This is the logic that is failing to be seen by you and many of the "It's not fair crowd."
The fact that most of the people crying about this bags where more than likely not here when it was a sub only game can't see the pace at which things get done. You want better balancing and bug fixes? So do I. Guess what. Under the sub model *** got done in a reasonable time frame. Not like now where we have to wait for DLC's for bug fixes to come IF then even come.
And to the person who says if we knew what the company was spending our money on we wouldn't spend it? Yeah I'm sorry, but if buying every developer golden toilet paper would get better and faster updates to bugs in game or latency fixed in Cyrodiil... well then just let me know what karat you want. I mean seriously. Such petty BS.
This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.
The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.
A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.
ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.
Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.
The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.
Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.
Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.
CaptainBeerDude wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Psst the whole reason they are doing it for the subs is they want more people to sub. A reliable revenue stream is what you take to your higher ups (ya know those guys in suits who only care that the game is profitable) There should be some sort of option for non subs to get some sort of crafting bag even if its limited to like 100 slots. But since they are basing off of a revenue standpoint it may be awhile before we see that. If subs don't increase due to the bag, we can just about guarantee it will be available in the crown store.
You are trying to introduce logic and sound economic practices to a whining , bratty , I deserve what I want for what I want to pay for it , crowd that just cannot grasp such concepts.
"They don't agree with what I think, they must be whiny, bratty and entitled"
Sound logic.
It has nothing to do with what they agree with. It's has every thing to do with the fact that many people have been explaining exactly how the models work and where most of the money comes from to generate new content and fix bugs. Anyone who understand a basic business model knows that reliable income, even in smaller increments, is way more desirable than a sporadic income. This is the logic that is failing to be seen by you and many of the "It's not fair crowd."
The fact that most of the people crying about this bags where more than likely not here when it was a sub only game can't see the pace at which things get done. You want better balancing and bug fixes? So do I. Guess what. Under the sub model *** got done in a reasonable time frame. Not like now where we have to wait for DLC's for bug fixes to come IF then even come.
And to the person who says if we knew what the company was spending our money on we wouldn't spend it? Yeah I'm sorry, but if buying every developer golden toilet paper would get better and faster updates to bugs in game or latency fixed in Cyrodiil... well then just let me know what karat you want. I mean seriously. Such petty BS.
This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.
The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.
A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.
ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.
Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.
The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.
Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.
Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.
@NewBlacksmurf
A couple of things:
Offering it for sale in the CS devalues it as a subscription incentive. If it can be purchased outright, it is no longer an incentive to subscribe.
Subscription is their preferred business model. I believe you like necromancy, find out what ZOS' official stance was before they submitted to B2P.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that subs benefits are sorely lacking. What would you offer in a subscription package to convince me to sub? Bear in mind that current benefits and the crafting bag are almost enough to get me in and I have very little interest in most of the crown store offerings.
I will say now why this tread has become either completely pointless or even "dangerous":
WHY DANGEROUS?
Because in the remote case that ZOS decides to listen to OP and makes the bag available in the Cash Shop they will totally *** off the great majority of the actual subscribers and they would lose a tons of players/subscribers/money to make some "random income guys" happy.
WHY POINTLESS?
Because if ZOS does not make the bag available in the Cash Shop... they will maybe lose a very few players that are a "non sure form of income" for the company, they will get those "not sure income" money back as a sure income from new subscribers and,, at the same time, the majority of people will completly forget this issue even existed with a little bit of time so... there will be absolutly no change for anyone but a very few number of people; and since it's crystal clear what would be the negative thing happening if they changed their mind now, you should just give up and close this tread because, as i already said, it's totally pointless since it will bring absolutly NO CHANGE in ANY POSSIBLE WAY, and will only keep generating flames because instead of beeing a constructive kind of tread, it's a personal war against ZOS from the very first post.
Give it up: no matter how long this discussion keeps going on you will never win because if you "win" it'll be a "lose-lose" situation for everyone were a few people will get a totally unnecessary item in term of ability to play the game in exchange for a massive decrease in subscribers for zenimax... and this will end up hindering the game even for the people, like the OP, that obtained their petty bag.
IT
WILL
NOT
HAPPEN
We will be unlocking this thread momentarily. This thread has been a long-running debate of this subject and we would like to continue to allow further commentary on the pros and cons of upcoming updates.
Keep in mind that this thread had to be locked due to baiting and heated commentary that was starting to get out of hand. Please be sure to keep the forum rules in mind for future posts. We will close the thread for conduct if it cannot remain civil.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »CaptainBeerDude wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Psst the whole reason they are doing it for the subs is they want more people to sub. A reliable revenue stream is what you take to your higher ups (ya know those guys in suits who only care that the game is profitable) There should be some sort of option for non subs to get some sort of crafting bag even if its limited to like 100 slots. But since they are basing off of a revenue standpoint it may be awhile before we see that. If subs don't increase due to the bag, we can just about guarantee it will be available in the crown store.
You are trying to introduce logic and sound economic practices to a whining , bratty , I deserve what I want for what I want to pay for it , crowd that just cannot grasp such concepts.
"They don't agree with what I think, they must be whiny, bratty and entitled"
Sound logic.
It has nothing to do with what they agree with. It's has every thing to do with the fact that many people have been explaining exactly how the models work and where most of the money comes from to generate new content and fix bugs. Anyone who understand a basic business model knows that reliable income, even in smaller increments, is way more desirable than a sporadic income. This is the logic that is failing to be seen by you and many of the "It's not fair crowd."
The fact that most of the people crying about this bags where more than likely not here when it was a sub only game can't see the pace at which things get done. You want better balancing and bug fixes? So do I. Guess what. Under the sub model *** got done in a reasonable time frame. Not like now where we have to wait for DLC's for bug fixes to come IF then even come.
And to the person who says if we knew what the company was spending our money on we wouldn't spend it? Yeah I'm sorry, but if buying every developer golden toilet paper would get better and faster updates to bugs in game or latency fixed in Cyrodiil... well then just let me know what karat you want. I mean seriously. Such petty BS.
This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.
The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.
A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.
ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.
Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.
The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.
Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.
Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.
@NewBlacksmurf
A couple of things:
Offering it for sale in the CS devalues it as a subscription incentive. If it can be purchased outright, it is no longer an incentive to subscribe.
Subscription is their preferred business model. I believe you like necromancy, find out what ZOS' official stance was before they submitted to B2P.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that subs benefits are sorely lacking. What would you offer in a subscription package to convince me to sub? Bear in mind that current benefits and the crafting bag are almost enough to get me in and I have very little interest in most of the crown store offerings.
Really?
So is ESO plus the issue or the bags?
I believe ESO plus is the issue and not the bag. If you're desire to buy ESO plus is for this bag then the program has no value if you feel that allowing the bag outside of ESO plus devalues ESO plus. It's not that the bag devalues ESO plus....it's that ESO plus has no value because of the benefits offered.
Can the folks who want a crafting bag, buy it and can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus? What I'm reading and what the ESO plus benefits threads have said since March was that ESO plus didn't have value. I think the reality of that is sinking in for ppl. But it's not right or a good business decision to bring a feature and lock it behind a subscription when you as a company know that a large portion of your customer base won't support it.
exeeter702 wrote: »
Why do you not subscribe? Because you cant legally?, because you feel only suckers do and you gain more for your money by staying b2p etc.
Honest question for any and all, what benefits do you feel a subscription should carry? And where do you draw the line? Because based on this entire discussion, you want them to put it on the crown store and render it just another paid for feature bring this full circle.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?
Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.
At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.
If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.
(NB : I don't sub).
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?
Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.
At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.
If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.
(NB : I don't sub).
The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok
Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?
Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.
At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.
If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.
(NB : I don't sub).
The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok
Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory
It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.
Or ok we will sell you it for a one time fee. 150,000 crowns.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
Benefits are things like:
-faster mount training resets
-reduced daily timers on dungeon finder
-have 3 runs vs 1 run with a blue undaunted item and 101k exp
-reduce research by 50-75%
-increase exp by 50%
-increase gold drops by 50%
-get early access to DLC a week in advance
Grayphilosophy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?
Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.
At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.
If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.
(NB : I don't sub).
The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok
Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory
It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.
Or ok we will sell you it for a one time fee. 150,000 crowns.
Even that would be more fair than hiding it behind a sub.
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?
Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.
At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.
If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.
(NB : I don't sub).
The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok
Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory
It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.