Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

NateAssassin

Crafting bag is pointless, I already have a guild bank of 500 slots for crafting garbage, why would I pay 15$ a month for the same thing?

Xundiin

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

milkbox

Do non-subscribers get to test drive the craft bag on the PTS?

I played with it today, and my bank went from 230/240 to 8/240 (I am subscribed). This will free up at least 2 alt mules who carry nothing but gear (and a lot of that gear will be obsolete, since all of my vets will be able to wear the cp160 stuff). Since all the crafting items go directly into the bag, I will need to bank and vendor-break far less frequently

I hope they've offered the ability to try it on the PTS to non-subscribers, because it will sell itself.

(not going to weigh-in on the sub vs. non-sub debate, just here to report that it streamlines the game immensely.)

Gidorick

First.. I can't believe this thread was reopened...

Secondly...

NateAssassin wrote: »

Crafting bag is pointless, I already have a guild bank of 500 slots for crafting garbage, why would I pay 15$ a month for the same thing?

There seems to be a couple of ways people have "solved" their inventory problems

• Use mule characters
• get a "personal" build bank

Both of these are exploitative game practices that we shouldn't have to rely on to "fix" our inventory issues. As of right now, exploiting the game is our only option, but soon we will have the option to pay a monthly fee and we will get some relief from our inventory woes.

We need a third option. A way to increase our inventory beyond the cap that doesn't include exploiting the game or being a subscriber.

back in April 2015 I suggested the following, and I still think it's a pretty sound idea that would work well as an alternative to a subscription:

Gidorick wrote: »

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.

1. Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
2. Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
3. Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
4. Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
5. Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
6. Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Note that there's a lot more to my thread than that one suggestion, I just isolated it here because that is really the part that is relevant to this discussion. The full thread can be found here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/limited-bags-crafting-bags-encumbrance-concepts/p1

I think this sort of addition would give players the third option we desire.

Xundiin

milkbox wrote: »

Do non-subscribers get to test drive the craft bag on the PTS?

I played with it today, and my bank went from 230/240 to 8/240 (I am subscribed). This will free up at least 2 alt mules who carry nothing but gear (and a lot of that gear will be obsolete, since all of my vets will be able to wear the cp160 stuff). Since all the crafting items go directly into the bag, I will need to bank and vendor-break far less frequently

I hope they've offered the ability to try it on the PTS to non-subscribers, because it will sell itself.

(not going to weigh-in on the sub vs. non-sub debate, just here to report that it streamlines the game immensely.)

Yes, on PTS everyone is a sub.

Xundiin

Gidorick wrote: »

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.

1. Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
2. Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
3. Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
4. Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
5. Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
6. Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

This isn't a bad Idea. It's low enough that it doesn't devalue the sub bag, but gives something to people who do not want to Sub. This would still promote the incentive to Sub.

Either this or 1 bag with 100 slots. for 5000 crowns.

NewBlacksmurf

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

Respectfully my comments aren't to upset you or cause argumentative tones. While I'm responding to what's noted by ZOS to a "hot topic" please don't take anything I'm writing as attacking you or anyone else.

A contract in this games terms is a sub.thus my comment

You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just sharing corporate strategies in the markets I have current access to over the last 10-15 years. A contract/subscription as payment is not a sound financial plan. That's fact. Neither of us know what ZOS' actual strategy is but we do know what they've shared. They told us why the sub was removed and told us and shown us repeatedly that they are far out of touch with the console market place.

I'm not lacking vision on what changes we see vs what it could mean fiscally but nothing is leading towards a sub model. I think you're reading too far into it to make an argument. Ppl are dropping subs because DLC is cheaper when purchased outright. Ppl drop subs on consoles cause they aren't getting access to DLC and or crowns but being charged. Ppl are also dropping subs because from the start, feedback was to ZOS that the benefits didn't align.

Further feedback over a year ago was for crafting options. The crafting bag which was datamined loooong ago is a feature that they decided to add and did t know how. They are trying to do this with the sub benefit because the attempt with assistants didn't go over well.

Your tone is fighting against the request for crafting bags to be avilable outside of ESO plus. That and the comment where you suggest a crafting bag is only an incentive if it's exclusive is fighting against those who would like to buy it.
By default if you are against ppl buying it, and for it as ESO plus only you're commenting to argue that only sub customers deserve the crafting bag which is causing an unexcessary argument because if you want to sub and want an incentive, the bag being for sale otherwise doesn't remove your sub incentive. It literally has no impact on you but you suggesting it should be exclusive has a direct impact on everyone else.

Literally that impact is monetarily more than what any sub would lay because unlimited crafting mat slots could be 10-80k in crowns.

That's what makes ppl extremely combatigive and argumentative towards those who have this position.
Your assumptions about the crowns on console are also off base from the ZOS comments and my emails and anyone else's who had to raise it up to Xbox live community managers and ZOS community managers for resolve.

Kattemynte

I would love to buy this item if it was in the crown store. However, I see the current system as a way to bring more people to subs. I think that after a few months if there is no real change in the number of subscriptions that they would be better off putting it in the crown store.

Aimora

The bags are amazing - they make looting fun again!!!

Acrolas

We still need the bank raised from 240 slots to 320 slots for now.
It seems like a large jump, but it's only a 10-point increase: 30 slots to 40 slots per character.

If you buy all four available character slot upgrades, that's going to decrease from 30 slots to 20 slots per character at 240. With 320 slots you'd get an average of 26.

WoW gives each character a basic bank of 28 spaces before any upgrades. That roughly what we have maxed out. Bag/mount inventory is okay and probably doesn't need an increase any time in the next five years. But the shared bank created problems that are not okay to shrug away by creating a loophole for just part of the population.

jircris11

i for one am grateful that subs are getting something worth the 15 a month. honestly there is little to no point in paying other then supporting a game you love. I still spend 100 or so a month on the cash shop as well so there really is no point to being a sub atm. With the crafting bag there will be a good perk that will make having my account subed more worth while.

GrumpStump

As far as I'm concerned, THE BAG BY ITSELF IS WORTH THE $15/MONTH. I'd pay that if it was offered as a standalone. The rest of the sub is now the gravy on top.


GrumpStump

Riggsy

Aimora wrote: »

...make looting fun again!!!

New Trumpesque slogan lol

Gidorick wrote: »

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

I'd like to see the "Writ Upon the Stars" achievement get a reward like that, maybe you choose one of the above bags or get one that can hold all crafting materials, just not as much as the sub/crown bag

WaTeR-aBuSeR

Why isn't this just a poll? The one time a poll would be nice it isn't lol.

Xundiin

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

Respectfully my comments aren't to upset you or cause argumentative tones. While I'm responding to what's noted by ZOS to a "hot topic" please don't take anything I'm writing as attacking you or anyone else.

A contract in this games terms is a sub.thus my comment

You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just sharing corporate strategies in the markets I have current access to over the last 10-15 years. A contract/subscription as payment is not a sound financial plan. That's fact. Neither of us know what ZOS' actual strategy is but we do know what they've shared. They told us why the sub was removed and told us and shown us repeatedly that they are far out of touch with the console market place.

I'm not lacking vision on what changes we see vs what it could mean fiscally but nothing is leading towards a sub model. I think you're reading too far into it to make an argument. Ppl are dropping subs because DLC is cheaper when purchased outright. Ppl drop subs on consoles cause they aren't getting access to DLC and or crowns but being charged. Ppl are also dropping subs because from the start, feedback was to ZOS that the benefits didn't align.

Further feedback over a year ago was for crafting options. The crafting bag which was datamined loooong ago is a feature that they decided to add and did t know how. They are trying to do this with the sub benefit because the attempt with assistants didn't go over well.

Your tone is fighting against the request for crafting bags to be avilable outside of ESO plus. That and the comment where you suggest a crafting bag is only an incentive if it's exclusive is fighting against those who would like to buy it.
By default if you are against ppl buying it, and for it as ESO plus only you're commenting to argue that only sub customers deserve the crafting bag which is causing an unexcessary argument because if you want to sub and want an incentive, the bag being for sale otherwise doesn't remove your sub incentive. It literally has no impact on you but you suggesting it should be exclusive has a direct impact on everyone else.

Literally that impact is monetarily more than what any sub would lay because unlimited crafting mat slots could be 10-80k in crowns.

That's what makes ppl extremely combatigive and argumentative towards those who have this position.
Your assumptions about the crowns on console are also off base from the ZOS comments and my emails and anyone else's who had to raise it up to Xbox live community managers and ZOS community managers for resolve.

You still don't get it. Doesn't matter how much access to business you have... assuming you actually are someone who deals with this stuff. Even though game companies are businesses the so called system you keep saying everyone is getting away (which they're not) works better than a system where you buy what you want. The so called "fact" you keep trying to use isn't "fact" in the gaming world. There has been a dozen articles written about this and what you say and what they say are opposite. And since they are articles written by actual gaming companies I would venture a guess that they know what they're talking about over a guy who has no experience dealing with the gaming industry.

So no I'm not reading to much into it. You're aren't reading enough into it.

As you stated.... subs are leaving because the subs perks aren't worth it.... yet you still feel that the bags should be available to everyone. And then come up with some preposterous number of what it would cost. Which instead of seeing a thread about the bag being unfair, we'd see a thread about the outrages price forcing ZOS to lower their price to what..... 5k crowns since that's what number is being thrown around constantly. Which again devalues the sub model defeating what ZOS is doing. I don't give a damn if it's in the store or not. What I give a damn about is that ZOS, the creater of the game you play along with others, gets a better source of money that is reliable or more reliable (since you have a problem with that word) over the B2P system.

If you go back to earlier post I've made on these systems you'd see that I've pulled examples from current games and articles to prove that having more subs in a sub option game earns ZOS more money. More money equals more fixes and stability to the game. So in essence what I'm arguing is not so much the bag, but more that I want the game fixed and them having more funds allows them to hire more people who then can dedicate more time to fixing the things you, I, everyone wants fixed. Having the bag as a 1 time purchase defeats what they are trying to do.

I'm done with this subject and there is no point in trying to educate those that refuse to be educated.

Taisynn

Look, if you do the math, subscribers pay more overtime; we hardly get anything except maybe 3 days off our research time and barely enough crowns to buy anything real nice. We also lose everything (including DLC) when we stop subscribing.

People who pay for the DLC get that -forever.- It can't be taken from them. You cannot compare yourselves to a subscriber, because you keep everything even if you stop paying.

DLC purchasers get everything forever.

Let subscribers have one thing: an unlimited crafting bag as an incentive to pay more.

You DLC purchasers pay $180 for forever access.

We subscribers pay $180 for something temporary. We stop paying we lose access.

Let us have ONE nice incentive. Your nice incentive is your forever-acess.

LET US SUBSCRIBERS HAVE ONE NICE THING.

Zweible

Gotta throw my 2 cents worth in here.. Not that it will affect the outcome at all.

I am not a subscriber, but have purchased the game, and all DLC to date. Have also purchased items from the crown store, and talked a few of my friends into playing. So I am not a low value customer by any means.

People have reasons for not subscribing. No credit card, not wanting to be tied down to a recurring payment etc.

That said, this is the 1st item that will make my character less than a subscribing character. The pre-applied crowns, slight gains to experience etc all had viable options that my character could either purchase with crowns or in game gold. It seems that there will be nothing comparable to this being offered.

This is not a threat, but a fact. If this goes in without an option to get the same or similar content without having to set up a recurring payment, then I will be forced to find other online entertainment. I will not be treated as a 2nd class citizen due to payment method.

ZOS.. If it is so important that you have people subscribe vs the pay for your content model, you never should have switched your business model and kept the game subscriber only. I feel as if you have taken the non-subscribers money, and are now changing the rules mid stream. I am sure that there will be many more, who will feel that this is just the beginning and will search out other offerings from other companies.

Zweible

Taisynn

@Zweible I will counter you with saying I'll stop paying my subscription if they give this to non-subscribing payers.

If you guys pay less for forever access, why shouldn't I?

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

NewBlacksmurf

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

Respectfully my comments aren't to upset you or cause argumentative tones. While I'm responding to what's noted by ZOS to a "hot topic" please don't take anything I'm writing as attacking you or anyone else.

A contract in this games terms is a sub.thus my comment

You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just sharing corporate strategies in the markets I have current access to over the last 10-15 years. A contract/subscription as payment is not a sound financial plan. That's fact. Neither of us know what ZOS' actual strategy is but we do know what they've shared. They told us why the sub was removed and told us and shown us repeatedly that they are far out of touch with the console market place.

I'm not lacking vision on what changes we see vs what it could mean fiscally but nothing is leading towards a sub model. I think you're reading too far into it to make an argument. Ppl are dropping subs because DLC is cheaper when purchased outright. Ppl drop subs on consoles cause they aren't getting access to DLC and or crowns but being charged. Ppl are also dropping subs because from the start, feedback was to ZOS that the benefits didn't align.

Further feedback over a year ago was for crafting options. The crafting bag which was datamined loooong ago is a feature that they decided to add and did t know how. They are trying to do this with the sub benefit because the attempt with assistants didn't go over well.

Your tone is fighting against the request for crafting bags to be avilable outside of ESO plus. That and the comment where you suggest a crafting bag is only an incentive if it's exclusive is fighting against those who would like to buy it.
By default if you are against ppl buying it, and for it as ESO plus only you're commenting to argue that only sub customers deserve the crafting bag which is causing an unexcessary argument because if you want to sub and want an incentive, the bag being for sale otherwise doesn't remove your sub incentive. It literally has no impact on you but you suggesting it should be exclusive has a direct impact on everyone else.

Literally that impact is monetarily more than what any sub would lay because unlimited crafting mat slots could be 10-80k in crowns.

That's what makes ppl extremely combatigive and argumentative towards those who have this position.
Your assumptions about the crowns on console are also off base from the ZOS comments and my emails and anyone else's who had to raise it up to Xbox live community managers and ZOS community managers for resolve.

You still don't get it. Doesn't matter how much access to business you have... assuming you actually are someone who deals with this stuff. Even though game companies are businesses the so called system you keep saying everyone is getting away (which they're not) works better than a system where you buy what you want. The so called "fact" you keep trying to use isn't "fact" in the gaming world. There has been a dozen articles written about this and what you say and what they say are opposite. And since they are articles written by actual gaming companies I would venture a guess that they know what they're talking about over a guy who has no experience dealing with the gaming industry.

So no I'm not reading to much into it. You're aren't reading enough into it.

As you stated.... subs are leaving because the subs perks aren't worth it.... yet you still feel that the bags should be available to everyone. And then come up with some preposterous number of what it would cost. Which instead of seeing a thread about the bag being unfair, we'd see a thread about the outrages price forcing ZOS to lower their price to what..... 5k crowns since that's what number is being thrown around constantly. Which again devalues the sub model defeating what ZOS is doing. I don't give a damn if it's in the store or not. What I give a damn about is that ZOS, the creater of the game you play along with others, gets a better source of money that is reliable or more reliable (since you have a problem with that word) over the B2P system.

If you go back to earlier post I've made on these systems you'd see that I've pulled examples from current games and articles to prove that having more subs in a sub option game earns ZOS more money. More money equals more fixes and stability to the game. So in essence what I'm arguing is not so much the bag, but more that I want the game fixed and them having more funds allows them to hire more people who then can dedicate more time to fixing the things you, I, everyone wants fixed. Having the bag as a 1 time purchase defeats what they are trying to do.

I'm done with this subject and there is no point in trying to educate those that refuse to be educated.

According real articles big companies ...go read for yourself.
There is a shift in generations of who will subscribe vs who will buy.
When looking at owning something to take care of....ppl will rent.
When looking at access or in this case gaming, ppl buy, and then trade or sale later.

It's the whole big topic on Xbox One and why are they trying to go digital when a large customer base plans to buy...play and trade later. They aren't looking to sub. That's the whole big issue with Xbox live, psn and this games subs.
The whole point subs were removed from all three literally is because of this.

It's not opinion not my word against yours. It's the market we are in right now. It's a matter of fact and not opinion.

So ppl want bags and just read the threads here and the comments within. There is a clear sperately of those saying...if I can't just buy it I won't have it. Then you have those saying I might sub again if they add the bag. You also have a group who will sub for doc and buy lots of crown items and buy more crown items.

We can talk theory and we can discuss what this companies says or another but bottom
Line. This game dropped a sub for a reason. Ppl complained about ESO plus for a reason and ppl complained about more bank slots for over 2 years. Folks who buy crowns and folks who sub both want the bag. There is absolutely no logic or reason for either customer to be excluded.

Jimbullbee85

I think the inevitable problem ESO are going to have is answering to the many people who have been playing this game for years without sub and have spent a fortune on dlc content to now feel that they have no choice but to subscribe to get this fab new perk. I'm a subscriber and I feel for you guys! I think a lot of people assume that non subs spend less money. No.... they probably spend a lot more in extras and deserve at least the opportunity to buy all new content at the Crown store. ESO should be using the subscription as a cheaper option to play the game in full instead of holding players to ransom with very tempting addons. As a subscriber I expect free content, NOT exclusive content. It's not fair on the many loyal non subs in opinion.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Not to worry. I am sure it will be coming to a crown store near you maybe by Christmas. Way too much money for ZOS to ignore.

rotaugen454

I'm going to start hoarding crowns. If they sell the bag, I'll buy the DLC and cancel my sub. I was considering it anyway, as subbing is more expensive. The bag gives me a reason to keep the sub, but if it is in the crown store too, no need to keep going.

VodkaVixen1979

Taisynn wrote: »

@Zweible I will counter you with saying I'll stop paying my subscription if they give this to non-subscribing payers.

If you guys pay less for forever access, why shouldn't I?

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

Guess you'll be handing over all those thousands of crowns us B2P players didn't get, but had to pay for. Oh wait, you probably already spent them on mounts, pets, and costumes that I had to buy with additional cold hard cash that has the same value as yours.

rotaugen454

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

Taisynn wrote: »

@Zweible I will counter you with saying I'll stop paying my subscription if they give this to non-subscribing payers.

If you guys pay less for forever access, why shouldn't I?

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

Guess you'll be handing over all those thousands of crowns us B2P players didn't get, but had to pay for. Oh wait, you probably already spent them on mounts, pets, and costumes that I had to buy with additional cold hard cash that has the same value as yours.

Except the crowns you get while subbing are more expensive.

DaveMoeDee

Frawr wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

So purchasing the game, subbing for years, buying DLC, spending hundreds on crowns is not enough? Just because you are ESO+ now does not make you in anyway special. It doesn't mean many others have not paid and continue to pay though crowns or make them less of a customer.

Subbing makes us regular income = reliable income. Reliable income is valuable to a company. Finding a method to make income reliable is ideal for health of game.

That said,

10k crowns. for example, for a crafting bag is faaaaaarrrr more reasonable than 5k crowns for a banker with no guild bank access and a merchant that doesn't repair.

Of course the most absurd price is 2500 for a vanity mount or even 500 for a costume.

DaveMoeDee

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.

Whether your motives are blind loyalty I can not say. I buy crowns when I feel they put something up in the crown store that I want. I'm all for more Quality of Life features being added like loot filters and such.

Also, those that don't pay a sub, benefit the game as well, via what's called the network effect. The more people that use a service, the more desirable this service becomes. Facebook and social media lives on this effect, and MMOs do as well to a high degree. This is why the B2P and F2P models are so powerful. Even people that don't spend money on the game still earn the game money by strengthening the network effect, and thus making the game more desirable to other players, that may spend money. I do feel though that we need to strike a balance between the quality of the old P2P MMOs and the newer B2P/F2P models, as the latter tend to of less quality.

Considering I got 2 5500 packs for $24 each, the crowns people get from subs is pretty weak.

Kalebron

Lol. I have been subbing for more than a year now. This is a really nice perk. There is always going to be someone who wants something for free. Zos will never please everyone.

Xundiin

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

Respectfully my comments aren't to upset you or cause argumentative tones. While I'm responding to what's noted by ZOS to a "hot topic" please don't take anything I'm writing as attacking you or anyone else.

A contract in this games terms is a sub.thus my comment

You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just sharing corporate strategies in the markets I have current access to over the last 10-15 years. A contract/subscription as payment is not a sound financial plan. That's fact. Neither of us know what ZOS' actual strategy is but we do know what they've shared. They told us why the sub was removed and told us and shown us repeatedly that they are far out of touch with the console market place.

I'm not lacking vision on what changes we see vs what it could mean fiscally but nothing is leading towards a sub model. I think you're reading too far into it to make an argument. Ppl are dropping subs because DLC is cheaper when purchased outright. Ppl drop subs on consoles cause they aren't getting access to DLC and or crowns but being charged. Ppl are also dropping subs because from the start, feedback was to ZOS that the benefits didn't align.

Further feedback over a year ago was for crafting options. The crafting bag which was datamined loooong ago is a feature that they decided to add and did t know how. They are trying to do this with the sub benefit because the attempt with assistants didn't go over well.

Your tone is fighting against the request for crafting bags to be avilable outside of ESO plus. That and the comment where you suggest a crafting bag is only an incentive if it's exclusive is fighting against those who would like to buy it.
By default if you are against ppl buying it, and for it as ESO plus only you're commenting to argue that only sub customers deserve the crafting bag which is causing an unexcessary argument because if you want to sub and want an incentive, the bag being for sale otherwise doesn't remove your sub incentive. It literally has no impact on you but you suggesting it should be exclusive has a direct impact on everyone else.

Literally that impact is monetarily more than what any sub would lay because unlimited crafting mat slots could be 10-80k in crowns.

That's what makes ppl extremely combatigive and argumentative towards those who have this position.
Your assumptions about the crowns on console are also off base from the ZOS comments and my emails and anyone else's who had to raise it up to Xbox live community managers and ZOS community managers for resolve.

You still don't get it. Doesn't matter how much access to business you have... assuming you actually are someone who deals with this stuff. Even though game companies are businesses the so called system you keep saying everyone is getting away (which they're not) works better than a system where you buy what you want. The so called "fact" you keep trying to use isn't "fact" in the gaming world. There has been a dozen articles written about this and what you say and what they say are opposite. And since they are articles written by actual gaming companies I would venture a guess that they know what they're talking about over a guy who has no experience dealing with the gaming industry.

So no I'm not reading to much into it. You're aren't reading enough into it.

As you stated.... subs are leaving because the subs perks aren't worth it.... yet you still feel that the bags should be available to everyone. And then come up with some preposterous number of what it would cost. Which instead of seeing a thread about the bag being unfair, we'd see a thread about the outrages price forcing ZOS to lower their price to what..... 5k crowns since that's what number is being thrown around constantly. Which again devalues the sub model defeating what ZOS is doing. I don't give a damn if it's in the store or not. What I give a damn about is that ZOS, the creater of the game you play along with others, gets a better source of money that is reliable or more reliable (since you have a problem with that word) over the B2P system.

If you go back to earlier post I've made on these systems you'd see that I've pulled examples from current games and articles to prove that having more subs in a sub option game earns ZOS more money. More money equals more fixes and stability to the game. So in essence what I'm arguing is not so much the bag, but more that I want the game fixed and them having more funds allows them to hire more people who then can dedicate more time to fixing the things you, I, everyone wants fixed. Having the bag as a 1 time purchase defeats what they are trying to do.

I'm done with this subject and there is no point in trying to educate those that refuse to be educated.

According real articles big companies ...go read for yourself.
There is a shift in generations of who will subscribe vs who will buy.
When looking at owning something to take care of....ppl will rent.
When looking at access or in this case gaming, ppl buy, and then trade or sale later.

It's the whole big topic on Xbox One and why are they trying to go digital when a large customer base plans to buy...play and trade later. They aren't looking to sub. That's the whole big issue with Xbox live, psn and this games subs.
The whole point subs were removed from all three literally is because of this.

It's not opinion not my word against yours. It's the market we are in right now. It's a matter of fact and not opinion.

So ppl want bags and just read the threads here and the comments within. There is a clear sperately of those saying...if I can't just buy it I won't have it. Then you have those saying I might sub again if they add the bag. You also have a group who will sub for doc and buy lots of crown items and buy more crown items.

We can talk theory and we can discuss what this companies says or another but bottom
Line. This game dropped a sub for a reason. Ppl complained about ESO plus for a reason and ppl complained about more bank slots for over 2 years. Folks who buy crowns and folks who sub both want the bag. There is absolutely no logic or reason for either customer to be excluded.

Couldn't laugh harder, guess gaming companies who write articles on the business models in the gaming industry are fake.....

Alurria

This is a dead issue as it will be offered to subscribers, as with most sub models there should be perks. If in the future they offer something similar to B2P it's all good. Everyone has an opinion about what is fair and unfair. This is a no win scenario. Watching this back and forth feels like a train wreck. I say wait and see what other offers become available. One other thing I just resubcribed my reason is this, I would rather give my sub fee to a company that delivers content and service then throw my money into a cash shop like BDO has.

Just a off the wall comparison don't you hate it when you have been a loyal customer, paid your bills on time and the cable company offers a brand spanking new customer a much cheaper price, with more features and a pre paid Visa card too boot while they raise your cable bill?! It makes you really dislike your cable company....now compare that to this discussion. That's how it feels to be kicked in the teeth for being a loyal customer. I know...simplistic but I'm keeping it real.

DaveMoeDee

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Y'all need to stop hoarding. How did you manage to fill up a full bank and 8*200 inventory slots? Remember that you can buy new characters next patch so that is at least 140 slots per character.

While the hoarding comment is true, the bags aren't just about hoarding. If you have the bags, you can loot everything and rarely have to worry about inventory management.

Also, you only have 8*200 inventory slots if you don't use any of your characters to actually play the game. I wanted to take my v3 sorc out for a bit but he has all my equipment crafting mats. When he gets a lot of a lower level mats, I sell them in guild stores. After purging quite a bit a month ago, he has a pretty full inventory right now. If I had crafting bags, that wouldn't be an issue.

Being able to loot everything is profitable. I often avoid looting to keep slots free, but that means missing out on rare motif books/pages that sell for good money. Provisioning ingredients are also easy money, whether you sell them in a guild store or you use them to craft top 2 tier items to sell to NPC merchants (assuming you are on PC and can use an addon to automate crafting large batches).