Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

Taisynn · April 2016

@Zweible I will counter you with saying I'll stop paying my subscription if they give this to non-subscribing payers.

If you guys pay less for forever access, why shouldn't I?

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

Respectfully my comments aren't to upset you or cause argumentative tones. While I'm responding to what's noted by ZOS to a "hot topic" please don't take anything I'm writing as attacking you or anyone else.

A contract in this games terms is a sub.thus my comment

You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just sharing corporate strategies in the markets I have current access to over the last 10-15 years. A contract/subscription as payment is not a sound financial plan. That's fact. Neither of us know what ZOS' actual strategy is but we do know what they've shared. They told us why the sub was removed and told us and shown us repeatedly that they are far out of touch with the console market place.

I'm not lacking vision on what changes we see vs what it could mean fiscally but nothing is leading towards a sub model. I think you're reading too far into it to make an argument. Ppl are dropping subs because DLC is cheaper when purchased outright. Ppl drop subs on consoles cause they aren't getting access to DLC and or crowns but being charged. Ppl are also dropping subs because from the start, feedback was to ZOS that the benefits didn't align.

Further feedback over a year ago was for crafting options. The crafting bag which was datamined loooong ago is a feature that they decided to add and did t know how. They are trying to do this with the sub benefit because the attempt with assistants didn't go over well.

Your tone is fighting against the request for crafting bags to be avilable outside of ESO plus. That and the comment where you suggest a crafting bag is only an incentive if it's exclusive is fighting against those who would like to buy it.
By default if you are against ppl buying it, and for it as ESO plus only you're commenting to argue that only sub customers deserve the crafting bag which is causing an unexcessary argument because if you want to sub and want an incentive, the bag being for sale otherwise doesn't remove your sub incentive. It literally has no impact on you but you suggesting it should be exclusive has a direct impact on everyone else.

Literally that impact is monetarily more than what any sub would lay because unlimited crafting mat slots could be 10-80k in crowns.

That's what makes ppl extremely combatigive and argumentative towards those who have this position.
Your assumptions about the crowns on console are also off base from the ZOS comments and my emails and anyone else's who had to raise it up to Xbox live community managers and ZOS community managers for resolve.

You still don't get it. Doesn't matter how much access to business you have... assuming you actually are someone who deals with this stuff. Even though game companies are businesses the so called system you keep saying everyone is getting away (which they're not) works better than a system where you buy what you want. The so called "fact" you keep trying to use isn't "fact" in the gaming world. There has been a dozen articles written about this and what you say and what they say are opposite. And since they are articles written by actual gaming companies I would venture a guess that they know what they're talking about over a guy who has no experience dealing with the gaming industry.

So no I'm not reading to much into it. You're aren't reading enough into it.

As you stated.... subs are leaving because the subs perks aren't worth it.... yet you still feel that the bags should be available to everyone. And then come up with some preposterous number of what it would cost. Which instead of seeing a thread about the bag being unfair, we'd see a thread about the outrages price forcing ZOS to lower their price to what..... 5k crowns since that's what number is being thrown around constantly. Which again devalues the sub model defeating what ZOS is doing. I don't give a damn if it's in the store or not. What I give a damn about is that ZOS, the creater of the game you play along with others, gets a better source of money that is reliable or more reliable (since you have a problem with that word) over the B2P system.

If you go back to earlier post I've made on these systems you'd see that I've pulled examples from current games and articles to prove that having more subs in a sub option game earns ZOS more money. More money equals more fixes and stability to the game. So in essence what I'm arguing is not so much the bag, but more that I want the game fixed and them having more funds allows them to hire more people who then can dedicate more time to fixing the things you, I, everyone wants fixed. Having the bag as a 1 time purchase defeats what they are trying to do.

I'm done with this subject and there is no point in trying to educate those that refuse to be educated.

According real articles big companies ...go read for yourself.
There is a shift in generations of who will subscribe vs who will buy.
When looking at owning something to take care of....ppl will rent.
When looking at access or in this case gaming, ppl buy, and then trade or sale later.

It's the whole big topic on Xbox One and why are they trying to go digital when a large customer base plans to buy...play and trade later. They aren't looking to sub. That's the whole big issue with Xbox live, psn and this games subs.
The whole point subs were removed from all three literally is because of this.

It's not opinion not my word against yours. It's the market we are in right now. It's a matter of fact and not opinion.

So ppl want bags and just read the threads here and the comments within. There is a clear sperately of those saying...if I can't just buy it I won't have it. Then you have those saying I might sub again if they add the bag. You also have a group who will sub for doc and buy lots of crown items and buy more crown items.

We can talk theory and we can discuss what this companies says or another but bottom
Line. This game dropped a sub for a reason. Ppl complained about ESO plus for a reason and ppl complained about more bank slots for over 2 years. Folks who buy crowns and folks who sub both want the bag. There is absolutely no logic or reason for either customer to be excluded.

Jimbullbee85 · April 2016

I think the inevitable problem ESO are going to have is answering to the many people who have been playing this game for years without sub and have spent a fortune on dlc content to now feel that they have no choice but to subscribe to get this fab new perk. I'm a subscriber and I feel for you guys! I think a lot of people assume that non subs spend less money. No.... they probably spend a lot more in extras and deserve at least the opportunity to buy all new content at the Crown store. ESO should be using the subscription as a cheaper option to play the game in full instead of holding players to ransom with very tempting addons. As a subscriber I expect free content, NOT exclusive content. It's not fair on the many loyal non subs in opinion.

clayandaudrey_ESO · April 2016

Not to worry. I am sure it will be coming to a crown store near you maybe by Christmas. Way too much money for ZOS to ignore.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

I'm going to start hoarding crowns. If they sell the bag, I'll buy the DLC and cancel my sub. I was considering it anyway, as subbing is more expensive. The bag gives me a reason to keep the sub, but if it is in the crown store too, no need to keep going.

VodkaVixen1979 · April 2016

Taisynn wrote: »

@Zweible I will counter you with saying I'll stop paying my subscription if they give this to non-subscribing payers.

If you guys pay less for forever access, why shouldn't I?

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

Guess you'll be handing over all those thousands of crowns us B2P players didn't get, but had to pay for. Oh wait, you probably already spent them on mounts, pets, and costumes that I had to buy with additional cold hard cash that has the same value as yours.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

Taisynn wrote: »

@Zweible I will counter you with saying I'll stop paying my subscription if they give this to non-subscribing payers.

If you guys pay less for forever access, why shouldn't I?

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

Guess you'll be handing over all those thousands of crowns us B2P players didn't get, but had to pay for. Oh wait, you probably already spent them on mounts, pets, and costumes that I had to buy with additional cold hard cash that has the same value as yours.

Except the crowns you get while subbing are more expensive.

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

Frawr wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

So purchasing the game, subbing for years, buying DLC, spending hundreds on crowns is not enough? Just because you are ESO+ now does not make you in anyway special. It doesn't mean many others have not paid and continue to pay though crowns or make them less of a customer.

Subbing makes us regular income = reliable income. Reliable income is valuable to a company. Finding a method to make income reliable is ideal for health of game.

That said,

10k crowns. for example, for a crafting bag is faaaaaarrrr more reasonable than 5k crowns for a banker with no guild bank access and a merchant that doesn't repair.

Of course the most absurd price is 2500 for a vanity mount or even 500 for a costume.

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful

Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.

Whether your motives are blind loyalty I can not say. I buy crowns when I feel they put something up in the crown store that I want. I'm all for more Quality of Life features being added like loot filters and such.

Also, those that don't pay a sub, benefit the game as well, via what's called the network effect. The more people that use a service, the more desirable this service becomes. Facebook and social media lives on this effect, and MMOs do as well to a high degree. This is why the B2P and F2P models are so powerful. Even people that don't spend money on the game still earn the game money by strengthening the network effect, and thus making the game more desirable to other players, that may spend money. I do feel though that we need to strike a balance between the quality of the old P2P MMOs and the newer B2P/F2P models, as the latter tend to of less quality.

Considering I got 2 5500 packs for $24 each, the crowns people get from subs is pretty weak.

Kalebron · April 2016

Lol. I have been subbing for more than a year now. This is a really nice perk. There is always going to be someone who wants something for free. Zos will never please everyone.

Xundiin · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

Who said any thing about contracts. Where did I say a damn thing about contracts. I want you to go back read every thing I wrote and show me exactly where I said a damn thing about contracts. Oh and by the way... cell phone companies, insurance, Power companies, cable companies, all have a monthly payment.... Not one of what I listed that I pay a month has a contract, but I don't pay that month you can be damn sure I won't have that service... so yeah maybe you should understand what you are talking about before actually talking.Because what they get from me is reliable stable income.... which is what everyone keeps trying to tell you people that these bags promote.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

Yeah this is such a load of ***. The company already knows all this. it also knows more subs = more money. There is more of a guarantee that they'll make more money from a small amount of subs than they will from a large amount of B2P. This has been discussed and even linked to articles discussing this time and time again.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

Which devalues the sub model.... yet again you fail to see what they are trying to do. They want subs..... subs = more money. There are tons and tons of articles discussing the benefits of draw backs of both all over the internet. Subs = reliable income... proven... time and time again. B2P/F2P is not reliable. 2.2% of B2P/F2P actually buy stuff and support the game. This is not a reliable source of income. And they didn't want this game to go B2P.... xbox forced them to because they wouldn't budge on their monthly cost to access their network.

To be honest, Zos would have been better off scrapping Xbox all together and having the sub for PC/PS since PS already said they'd drop the monthly fee.

Also, I never once said they where taking any thing away. What I'm advocating is that the sub incentive needs to stay. I also read you other post you tried to start and you are completely missing the point. Every thing that is sold on the store that ESO+ people don't have to purchase (even though most of them by now have purchased all the DLC's anyway) devalues ESO+. So why are you advocating that you NEED those bags so bad that they need to take away from the value of subs.

Also, I'm pretty sure your xbox issue with crown store and such is a Microsoft thing and not a ZOS thing. Microsoft can be pretty stingy when it comes to what is allowed and not allowed to be accessed by their network. So blaming ZOS for that is not the right place. More than likely.

Respectfully my comments aren't to upset you or cause argumentative tones. While I'm responding to what's noted by ZOS to a "hot topic" please don't take anything I'm writing as attacking you or anyone else.

A contract in this games terms is a sub.thus my comment

You're entitled to your opinions, I'm just sharing corporate strategies in the markets I have current access to over the last 10-15 years. A contract/subscription as payment is not a sound financial plan. That's fact. Neither of us know what ZOS' actual strategy is but we do know what they've shared. They told us why the sub was removed and told us and shown us repeatedly that they are far out of touch with the console market place.

I'm not lacking vision on what changes we see vs what it could mean fiscally but nothing is leading towards a sub model. I think you're reading too far into it to make an argument. Ppl are dropping subs because DLC is cheaper when purchased outright. Ppl drop subs on consoles cause they aren't getting access to DLC and or crowns but being charged. Ppl are also dropping subs because from the start, feedback was to ZOS that the benefits didn't align.

Further feedback over a year ago was for crafting options. The crafting bag which was datamined loooong ago is a feature that they decided to add and did t know how. They are trying to do this with the sub benefit because the attempt with assistants didn't go over well.

Your tone is fighting against the request for crafting bags to be avilable outside of ESO plus. That and the comment where you suggest a crafting bag is only an incentive if it's exclusive is fighting against those who would like to buy it.
By default if you are against ppl buying it, and for it as ESO plus only you're commenting to argue that only sub customers deserve the crafting bag which is causing an unexcessary argument because if you want to sub and want an incentive, the bag being for sale otherwise doesn't remove your sub incentive. It literally has no impact on you but you suggesting it should be exclusive has a direct impact on everyone else.

Literally that impact is monetarily more than what any sub would lay because unlimited crafting mat slots could be 10-80k in crowns.

That's what makes ppl extremely combatigive and argumentative towards those who have this position.
Your assumptions about the crowns on console are also off base from the ZOS comments and my emails and anyone else's who had to raise it up to Xbox live community managers and ZOS community managers for resolve.

You still don't get it. Doesn't matter how much access to business you have... assuming you actually are someone who deals with this stuff. Even though game companies are businesses the so called system you keep saying everyone is getting away (which they're not) works better than a system where you buy what you want. The so called "fact" you keep trying to use isn't "fact" in the gaming world. There has been a dozen articles written about this and what you say and what they say are opposite. And since they are articles written by actual gaming companies I would venture a guess that they know what they're talking about over a guy who has no experience dealing with the gaming industry.

So no I'm not reading to much into it. You're aren't reading enough into it.

As you stated.... subs are leaving because the subs perks aren't worth it.... yet you still feel that the bags should be available to everyone. And then come up with some preposterous number of what it would cost. Which instead of seeing a thread about the bag being unfair, we'd see a thread about the outrages price forcing ZOS to lower their price to what..... 5k crowns since that's what number is being thrown around constantly. Which again devalues the sub model defeating what ZOS is doing. I don't give a damn if it's in the store or not. What I give a damn about is that ZOS, the creater of the game you play along with others, gets a better source of money that is reliable or more reliable (since you have a problem with that word) over the B2P system.

If you go back to earlier post I've made on these systems you'd see that I've pulled examples from current games and articles to prove that having more subs in a sub option game earns ZOS more money. More money equals more fixes and stability to the game. So in essence what I'm arguing is not so much the bag, but more that I want the game fixed and them having more funds allows them to hire more people who then can dedicate more time to fixing the things you, I, everyone wants fixed. Having the bag as a 1 time purchase defeats what they are trying to do.

I'm done with this subject and there is no point in trying to educate those that refuse to be educated.

According real articles big companies ...go read for yourself.
There is a shift in generations of who will subscribe vs who will buy.
When looking at owning something to take care of....ppl will rent.
When looking at access or in this case gaming, ppl buy, and then trade or sale later.

It's the whole big topic on Xbox One and why are they trying to go digital when a large customer base plans to buy...play and trade later. They aren't looking to sub. That's the whole big issue with Xbox live, psn and this games subs.
The whole point subs were removed from all three literally is because of this.

It's not opinion not my word against yours. It's the market we are in right now. It's a matter of fact and not opinion.

So ppl want bags and just read the threads here and the comments within. There is a clear sperately of those saying...if I can't just buy it I won't have it. Then you have those saying I might sub again if they add the bag. You also have a group who will sub for doc and buy lots of crown items and buy more crown items.

We can talk theory and we can discuss what this companies says or another but bottom
Line. This game dropped a sub for a reason. Ppl complained about ESO plus for a reason and ppl complained about more bank slots for over 2 years. Folks who buy crowns and folks who sub both want the bag. There is absolutely no logic or reason for either customer to be excluded.

Couldn't laugh harder, guess gaming companies who write articles on the business models in the gaming industry are fake.....

Alurria · April 2016

This is a dead issue as it will be offered to subscribers, as with most sub models there should be perks. If in the future they offer something similar to B2P it's all good. Everyone has an opinion about what is fair and unfair. This is a no win scenario. Watching this back and forth feels like a train wreck. I say wait and see what other offers become available. One other thing I just resubcribed my reason is this, I would rather give my sub fee to a company that delivers content and service then throw my money into a cash shop like BDO has.

Just a off the wall comparison don't you hate it when you have been a loyal customer, paid your bills on time and the cable company offers a brand spanking new customer a much cheaper price, with more features and a pre paid Visa card too boot while they raise your cable bill?! It makes you really dislike your cable company....now compare that to this discussion. That's how it feels to be kicked in the teeth for being a loyal customer. I know...simplistic but I'm keeping it real.

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Y'all need to stop hoarding. How did you manage to fill up a full bank and 8*200 inventory slots? Remember that you can buy new characters next patch so that is at least 140 slots per character.

While the hoarding comment is true, the bags aren't just about hoarding. If you have the bags, you can loot everything and rarely have to worry about inventory management.

Also, you only have 8*200 inventory slots if you don't use any of your characters to actually play the game. I wanted to take my v3 sorc out for a bit but he has all my equipment crafting mats. When he gets a lot of a lower level mats, I sell them in guild stores. After purging quite a bit a month ago, he has a pretty full inventory right now. If I had crafting bags, that wouldn't be an issue.

Being able to loot everything is profitable. I often avoid looting to keep slots free, but that means missing out on rare motif books/pages that sell for good money. Provisioning ingredients are also easy money, whether you sell them in a guild store or you use them to craft top 2 tier items to sell to NPC merchants (assuming you are on PC and can use an addon to automate crafting large batches).

ADarklore · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's the whole big topic on Xbox One and why are they trying to go digital when a large customer base plans to buy...play and trade later. They aren't looking to sub. That's the whole big issue with Xbox live, psn and this games subs.
The whole point subs were removed from all three literally is because of this.

It's not opinion not my word against yours. It's the market we are in right now. It's a matter of fact and not opinion.

So ppl want bags and just read the threads here and the comments within. There is a clear sperately of those saying...if I can't just buy it I won't have it. Then you have those saying I might sub again if they add the bag. You also have a group who will sub for doc and buy lots of crown items and buy more crown items.

We can talk theory and we can discuss what this companies says or another but bottom
Line. This game dropped a sub for a reason. Ppl complained about ESO plus for a reason and ppl complained about more bank slots for over 2 years. Folks who buy crowns and folks who sub both want the bag. There is absolutely no logic or reason for either customer to be excluded.

I always love it how people create 'facts' with no actual 'facts' to back them up. Please post actual facts- as in direct quotes from ZOS stating the reason they dropped subs- otherwise it is all speculation, assumption and rumor-mongering.

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

"I enjoy ESO"

ZOS adds a great feature to ESO that I do not have access to unless I sub.

"I no longer enjoy ESO"
---

I'm glad my mind doesn't work that way.

hammayolettuce · April 2016

Hurry for me! More bank and bag space finally!!

Jesh · April 2016

This is ridiculous.
ZOS are incentivising people to subscribe. One of those incentives is crafting bags. This is one of the perks for premium subscription membership, which is what ESO Plus is. If you want the perks related to being a premium member, become a member and subscribe. If you don't want it enough to subscribe, then you don't want it enough. Some people will want it enough to subscribe, some people will like it enough not to unsubscribe. Those are the target market, and you are not it.
I was very much thinking about unsubscribing and just purchasing DLC (with crowns my subscription gave me), now I will probably stay subscribed for a good while longer, because this I think makes ESO Plus premium membership more worthwhile (other perks were only ok). Well played ZOS, well played...

Jimbullbee85 · April 2016

I don't understand why sub holders are being so defensive! No one wants to take anything from us. Players just want to pay for the extra content we get for "free". If it was something less valuable then I don't think anyone would be making a fuss about it but the crafting bag is going to be a huge benefit which should be available to everyone. Free for subscribers and on sale for everyone else. Sounds to me like my fellow subs are being very bitter. Maybe we don't get enough for what we pay for but that's our problem. As a guild master I know many of my non sub guild mates (who spend alot of time and money on this game) will be furious enough to move onto another game.

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

If you choose to sub, there is risk. If you choose buy DLC outright there is risk. Deal with it when the option you chose has negatives.

For example, since I bought DLC outright, I can come and go as I will from the game and I will always have access to that content without paying for it again. The risk of this approach is that a useful feature would be added to the sub and I would end up subbing and the money I spent on the DLC would have been wasted. This is actually not a bit deal to me since crowns regularly go on sale 5500 for $25 which means I have been able to access all the DLC since the first one of those sales for waaaaay less than I would have spend on a sub.

People who sub get access to everything and some perks, but if they want to take a break for a month, they will at the very least end up wasting a few weeks of paid time. When they come back, despite all the money they sank into the game, they will have only the base game. If they saved their crowns, they could always buy their favorite DLC or any new DLC, but paying $16 for 1500 crowns is a horrible price compared to 5500 for $24.

People who don't sub like to talk about all the money they have spent on crowns but anything apart from DLC that you spend crowns on doesn't matter in this discussion since people with subs had to also spend crowns to get that.

So this is the real math:

If you subbed for the last quarter, you spent $48 for 3 x 1500 + 2500 (value of DLC) crowns or 7000 crowns. Of course, if you end your sub, you essentially lose the 2500 crowns. To simplify, we can just assume that this person will sub indefinitely.

If you didn't sub but bought the DLC, you spent 2500 crowns. If you are smart, you bought your crowns on sale $24 for 5500 crowns. To get the same access to DLC for 1 quarter, you essentially paid less that $12. If you would have spent the same $48 that the subber spent, you would have 11000 crowns, enough for a full year of DLC.

I think my future with this game will be subbing 1 month when DLC comes out and then not spending much time with the game in between DLC. The crafting bags appeal to me too much and I probably should to cut down my time in the game in-between content drops.

clayandaudrey_ESO · April 2016

This thread reminds me of another one.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/145474/this-game-is-not-going-free-to-play

Acrolas · April 2016

Taisynn wrote: »

Seriously. What about this being a nice incentive for people who lose their investment once they stop
paying?

You are all paying cheaper something you keep forever.

Subscribers are paying more for something temporary.

It is NOT equal.

Except it is.

One day, let's say for argument's sake November 31, 2026, the servers will go offline, and no matter how much anyone spent on this game, nobody will have anything to show for it. It's all temporary. Nobody in this game gets something forever.

Everyone exits the game, forcibly or not, with empty hands. Some will call it an investment in subjective terms of fun, enjoyment, or memories. But I call recurring payments with zero return a sunk cost. That's a fact you can record on a ledger. You'll never recover any of the time or money you spent on a game and that deep down frightens people. And it should. It's a powerful concept.

But I think the non-existential point people are trying to make is that the crafting bags do not solve inventory problems as a whole and should not for a moment be considered a long-term solution.

Gidorick · April 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

"I enjoy ESO"

ZOS adds a great feature to ESO that I do not have access to unless I sub.

"I no longer enjoy ESO"
---

I'm glad my mind doesn't work that way.

It's a little more complicated than you're making it. Inventory has been a source of fun-ruining annoyance for a long time @DaveMoeDee . Many threads have been made about it. Some of them have been from me.

For me it's more like...

"I would enjoy ESO a lot more if I didn't have to worry about inventory so much"

My thread about wanting more inventory options in ESO and suggesting some solutions (April 2015): http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/limited-bags-crafting-bags-encumbrance-concepts/p1

"Man, I want to stay subscribed but ESO isn't really worth it."

My thread offering ZOS a handful of suggestions that would better incentivize ESO+ and make ESO+ members feel "special" (February 2015 ): http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1
My last ditch thread before I dropped ESO+ (I really didn't want to unsub but couldn't justify staying an ESO+ member-April 2015): http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/166473/so-my-subscription-has-2-weeks-left-last-plea-for-a-better-eso/p1

ZOS announces a feature called "Crafting Bags"

My thread suggesting how Crafting Bags could be implemented so that they remain exclusive to ESO+ members but aren't "forcing" players to remain subscribed less they loose access to their Crafting Bags (August 2015): http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1

ZOS releases details on the Crafting Bags and places them on the PTS (April 2016)

"Man... I feel like the only way I can get relief from my inventory problems is by subbing again. That's not so much a reward as it is a punishment for not being subbed. That kind of makes me feel like they are taking advantage of the fact that their inventory system is cumbersome. I have already bought all the DLC with cash and really like the collectors editions they release with the mount and extra goodies. Gee... It's not a good feeling when it seems like someone is trying to take advantage of you."

And I end on:

"So now my inventory sucks (as it always has) and the only way to help that is to commit to give ZOS money every month for as long as I want to play ESO and just write off the money I spent buying Imperial City, Orsinium, and Thieves Guild DLC."

So no, we're not making up an issue in light of the Crafting Bags. We're upset that an issue that ZOS created, one that has been complained about on the forums since just about day one of ESO, is being capitalized upon in such a way that gives players only ONE option on how they want to consume ESO... if they don't want to deal with the cumbersome inventory, that is.

Jimbullbee85 · April 2016

Jesh wrote: »

This is ridiculous.
ZOS are incentivising people to subscribe. One of those incentives is crafting bags. This is one of the perks for premium subscription membership, which is what ESO Plus is. If you want the perks related to being a premium member, become a member and subscribe. If you don't want it enough to subscribe, then you don't want it enough. Some people will want it enough to subscribe, some people will like it enough not to unsubscribe. Those are the target market, and you are not it.
I was very much thinking about unsubscribing and just purchasing DLC (with crowns my subscription gave me), now I will probably stay subscribed for a good while longer, because this I think makes ESO Plus premium membership more worthwhile (other perks were only ok). Well played ZOS, well played...

It's too late in the game for ZOS to be "playing games" like this when non sub holders have already paid out for DLC content. It's a cheap and quite frank a nasty tactic to hold non subscribers to ransom. They should be making subscription more advantageous in other ways than this. I think they've realised that sub holders (like me) have realised that we simply don't get enough value for our money. I mean... 5000 crowns for Ancient orc motif (which I've been farming for far too long for) it's a rip off anyway for something aesthetic but would be nice if subs got at least a decent discount. They've probably reduced the drop rate for stuff like this too.

me_ming · April 2016

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

If it was something less valuable then I don't think anyone would be making a fuss about it but the crafting bag is going to be a huge benefit which should be available to everyone

I think the main reason why the crafting bags are sub only is because it IS a valuable feature. No one would sub if it was anything of less value. The concept is to get people to sub, and sustain that subscription, not for people to buy it for crowns one-time and be done with it. That's why you loose the bag if you don't renew your subscription. Or else, everyone will just sub for a month or two (maybe save up some crowns), buy them and then unsubscribe. The free DLC access and the crafting bags are features that will make people want to subscribe and sustain that subscription.

Riggsy · April 2016

Does anyone know what happens to the loot you stash in the crafting bag if your subscription lapses?

Vulsahdaal · April 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens to the loot you stash in the crafting bag if your subscription lapses?

You can still access the loot that remains in the bag, but you cant add any more into the bag..

me_ming · April 2016

me_ming wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

If it was something less valuable then I don't think anyone would be making a fuss about it but the crafting bag is going to be a huge benefit which should be available to everyone

I think the main reason why the crafting bags are sub only is because it IS a valuable feature. No one would sub if it was anything of less value. The concept is to get people to sub, and sustain that subscription, not for people to buy it for crowns one-time and be done with it. That's why you loose the bag if you don't renew your subscription. Or else, everyone will just sub for a month or two (maybe save up some crowns), buy them and then unsubscribe. The free DLC access and the crafting bags are features that will make people want to subscribe and sustain that subscription.

Volkodav · April 2016

Xundiin wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

This isn't a bad Idea. It's low enough that it doesn't devalue the sub bag, but gives something to people who do not want to Sub. This would still promote the incentive to Sub.

Either this or 1 bag with 100 slots. for 5000 crowns.

Not for 5000 crowns.If the bag was infinite,then yes. You agreed that GIidorick's idea was sound,with it's low pricing.But then you say 1 bag with only 100 slots for far bigger proce than what Gidorick was offering as a solution.
I am with Gidorick on those prices. One can easily purchase enough for some of them.I would buy three.The Blacksmith,the Clothier,and the Woodworker bags,as those are what I gather my mats for.
However,since I sub,it is of no issue for me regarding pricing.I was thinking of other people,like those who arent able to just shell out $40.00 for 5000 crowns.

Gidorick · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Xundiin wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

This isn't a bad Idea. It's low enough that it doesn't devalue the sub bag, but gives something to people who do not want to Sub. This would still promote the incentive to Sub.

Either this or 1 bag with 100 slots. for 5000 crowns.

Thanks @Xundiin , I really wish ZOS would pay attention to some of us "Armchair Developers". There is always a solution to any problem that exists. Non-subs feel ESO+ Crafting Bags being exclusive is unfair yet ESO+ members want the bags to remain exclusive? Fine! Give non-ESO+ players a way to purchase SIMILAR benefits but not exactly the same benefits.

If these bags were implemented exactly as I have outlined in my thread suggesting bags HERE they would function VERY differently than the ESO+ bag. They would be inventory items themselves, so a player could throw all their crafting mats in the bag, move that bag to their bank and pick it up with another character. They could also theoretically buy a bag for each character and the bank so ZOS could see a lot of sales from that.

They wouldn't be shared across all characters automatically like the ESO+ bags. They would function more like an actual bag than a portable crafting material bank.

Jesh · April 2016

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

It's too late in the game for ZOS to be "playing games" like this when non sub holders have already paid out for DLC content. It's a cheap and quite frank a nasty tactic to hold non subscribers to ransom. They should be making subscription more advantageous in other ways than this. I think they've realised that sub holders (like me) have realised that we simply don't get enough value for our money. I mean... 5000 crowns for Ancient orc motif (which I've been farming for far too long for) it's a rip off anyway for something aesthetic but would be nice if subs got at least a decent discount. They've probably reduced the drop rate for stuff like this too.

How are they 'playing games'? We are playing their game. They are offering us different ways, at different price points to play their game. Prices are always going to be evolving, how can they not? And no one has forced anyone to buy anything.
Ancient Orc is available in game in 3 ways to you: 1. grind that SoB!, 2. buy that bad boy in a guild store, 3. bite the bullet and fla$h that ca$h for the motif book. Its up to you to choose the way you want to acquire this content (or not, if it doesn't interest you). You spend your time, virtual money, and real money as you see fit.
No one is holding anyone to ransom! We are all here because we want to and have chosen to be here. What kind of way is that of approaching this issue?
If you personally are not getting enough value, for YOU, out of the sub, then you should really unsubscribe. If you are not unsubscribing its either because you don't care about $15 a month (fair enough) OR you are finding enough value in the sub, on some level. Either way, no one is forcing your hand or a non-subscribers' hands. There are different ways to play this game that make it accessible to lots of people, and I think that's great.