Official Feedback Thread for Templars

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2016

This is the official feedback thread for the Templar for the Dark Brotherhood update. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

AfkNinja · April 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Templar for the Dark Brotherhood update. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

I love all of you right now. With the changes to Templar, Werewolf and Fighters guild I am giddy with anticipation. Thank you for listening to our feedback and my apologies for any venting directed at you guys after the last patch.

tinythinker · April 2016

From the other thread on Dark Brotherhood Patch Notes/Templar...

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Here are the changes...

Templar

Aedric Spear
- Burning Light: This passive ability now deals Physical Damage or Magic Damage, based on whether your Weapon Damage or Spell Damage is higher respectively.
Dawn’s Wrath
- Power of the Light (Backlash morph): This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.
Restoring Light
- Cleansing Ritual: This ability now always removes 2 harmful effects from the casting Templar as a baseline effect, increased from 1 harmful effect.
- Extended Ritual (Cleansing Ritual morph): Increased this morph’s duration to 18/20/22/24 seconds at Ranks I/II/III/IV respectively, from 16/18/20/22 seconds.
- Focused Healing:
  - Renamed this passive ability to Sacred Ground.
  - This passive ability has gained a new effect. In addition to providing the Minor Mending buff, it now also reduces the Movement Speed of enemies by 15/30% whenever they stand in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area of effects.
- Purifying Ritual (Cleansing Ritual morph): Renamed this morph to Ritual of Retribution, In addition, we redesigned this morph so it now damages enemies in its area of effect every 2 seconds for the same amount that it heals allies.
- Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs can no longer heal allies through walls and other line of sight blockers.

And these came directly from the feedback players offered from the last update...

Focused Healing:

Renamed this passive ability to Sacred Ground.
This passive ability has gained a new effect. In addition to providing the Minor Mending buff, it now also reduces the Movement Speed of enemies by 15/30% whenever they stand in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area of effects.

Purifying Ritual (Cleansing Ritual morph): Renamed this morph to Ritual of Retribution, In addition, we redesigned this morph so it now damages enemies in its area of effect every 2 seconds for the same amount that it heals allies.
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Initial impressions:

- the combat team took the feedback offered during the PTS run of the TG update seriously
- these changes look really fun for both magicka and stamina based Templars

MissBizz · April 2016

@tinythinker Have you been on PTS yet?

There was no patch note calling out that focused healing now only gives minor mending (8%) instead of major mending (25%), although "minor mending" is using in the focused healing explanation.

I'm wondering if it's an oops on the patch notes, or if the healing was nerfed.

AfkNinja · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

@tinythinker Have you been on PTS yet?

There was no patch note calling out that focused healing now only gives minor mending (8%) instead of major mending (25%), although "minor mending" is using in the focused healing explanation.

I'm wondering if it's an oops on the patch notes, or if the healing was nerfed.

I think and hope it's an "oops", since they just gave us Major Mending last patch LOL!

tinythinker · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

@tinythinker Have you been on PTS yet?

There was no patch note calling out that focused healing now only gives minor mending (8%) instead of major mending (25%), although "minor mending" is using in the focused healing explanation.

I'm wondering if it's an oops on the patch notes, or if the healing was nerfed.

No, not on yet. But that definitely sounds like a major goof/bug. I mean, they reduced healing from Sweeps last update, and *just* made it so that Sweeps can't get a second crit proc for healing in addition to damage (which could previously double dip the healing done), so, dropping the bonus for staying in "our house" would be super-lame. I mean Wrobel made this big deal about how much easier it was to get the bonus healing from all sources (Restoring Light and Resto Staff skill lines) since only the Templar had to be in the circle after the last update, can't see them changing it now.

Nifty2g · April 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I need asap clarification on thins

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.

Does this affect puncturing sweep and it's morphs?

tinythinker · April 2016

Oh and as I mentioned in that other thread as well, Templar healers should note that the weapon traits have changed and Powered now increased the healing done by the wielder.

MissBizz · April 2016

tinythinker wrote: »

Oh and as I mentioned in that other thread as well, Templar healers should note that the weapon traits have changed and Powered now increased the healing done by the wielder.

I'm no number cruncher, so if someone could clarify that for me.

Wouldn't that only effect (affect?) weapon heals? AKA - resto heals.

timidobserver · April 2016

Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.

^Not in our class section, but this will impact us significantly.

tinythinker · April 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Oh and as I mentioned in that other thread as well, Templar healers should note that the weapon traits have changed and Powered now increased the healing done by the wielder.

I'm no number cruncher, so if someone could clarify that for me.

Wouldn't that only effect (affect?) weapon heals? AKA - resto heals.

The way it is worded, it would impact any heals by the caster, but I'm sure someone will test it or a CM will ask about that and add a clarification.

Here is the list of weapon/armor traits:

Item Trait Improvements
Item Traits have undergone revision to improve the viability and balance of each Trait. Some Traits have received complete redesigns, other Traits have gained new effects and bonuses, while some other Traits have simply received better number tuning.
Weapons
Charged: This trait now increases your chance to apply status effects instead of increasing the amount of enchantment charges on your weapon.

Defending: This trait now increases your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by flat values instead of percentages.

Infused: This trait now also reduces the cooldown on your weapon enchantment in addition to increasing its damage.

Intricate: This trait now also increases the amount of refined materials you obtain whenever you deconstruct the weapon, in addition to increasing the amount of inspiration gained.

Nirnhoned: This trait now increases the damage of the weapon.

Powered: This trait now increases your healing done instead of reducing the cooldown on your weapon enchantment.

Sharpened: This trait now increases your Physical Penetration and Spell Penetration by flat values instead of percentages.

Training: This trait now increases all experience gained from all kills by a percentage instead of increasing your weapon skill line experience only.

Weighted: This trait now grants you a chance to gain additional Ultimate whenever you generate Ultimate normally, and has been renamed to Decisive.

Armor
Exploration: This trait now increases all gold gained from monster kills instead of increasing exploration experience gained, and has been renamed to Prosperous.

Impenetrable: This trait now also reduces the durability damage taken of the item, in addition to reducing the damage taken from Critical Hits.

Intricate: This trait now also increases the amount of refined materials you obtain whenever you deconstruct the armor, in addition to increasing the amount of inspiration gained.

Nirnhoned: This trait now increases Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by a flat value.

Sturdy: This trait now reduces the cost of Block.

Training: This trait now increases all experience gained from all kills by a percentage, instead of increasing your armor skill line experience only.

Well-fitted: This trait now also reduces the cost of Roll Dodge, in addition to reducing the cost of Sprint.

danno8 · April 2016

Rushed Ceremony. Is that another BoL nerf?

If so, can we get back the 2 additional targets please?

Nifty2g · April 2016

tinythinker wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Oh and as I mentioned in that other thread as well, Templar healers should note that the weapon traits have changed and Powered now increased the healing done by the wielder.

I'm no number cruncher, so if someone could clarify that for me.

Wouldn't that only effect (affect?) weapon heals? AKA - resto heals.

The way it is worded, it would impact any heals by the caster, but I'm sure someone will test it or a CM will ask about that and add a clarification.

Here is the list of weapon/armor traits:

Item Trait Improvements
Item Traits have undergone revision to improve the viability and balance of each Trait. Some Traits have received complete redesigns, other Traits have gained new effects and bonuses, while some other Traits have simply received better number tuning.
Weapons
Charged: This trait now increases your chance to apply status effects instead of increasing the amount of enchantment charges on your weapon.

Defending: This trait now increases your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by flat values instead of percentages.

Infused: This trait now also reduces the cooldown on your weapon enchantment in addition to increasing its damage.

Intricate: This trait now also increases the amount of refined materials you obtain whenever you deconstruct the weapon, in addition to increasing the amount of inspiration gained.

Nirnhoned: This trait now increases the damage of the weapon.

Powered: This trait now increases your healing done instead of reducing the cooldown on your weapon enchantment.

Sharpened: This trait now increases your Physical Penetration and Spell Penetration by flat values instead of percentages.

Training: This trait now increases all experience gained from all kills by a percentage instead of increasing your weapon skill line experience only.

Weighted: This trait now grants you a chance to gain additional Ultimate whenever you generate Ultimate normally, and has been renamed to Decisive.

Armor
Exploration: This trait now increases all gold gained from monster kills instead of increasing exploration experience gained, and has been renamed to Prosperous.

Impenetrable: This trait now also reduces the durability damage taken of the item, in addition to reducing the damage taken from Critical Hits.

Intricate: This trait now also increases the amount of refined materials you obtain whenever you deconstruct the armor, in addition to increasing the amount of inspiration gained.

Nirnhoned: This trait now increases Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by a flat value.

Sturdy: This trait now reduces the cost of Block.

Training: This trait now increases all experience gained from all kills by a percentage, instead of increasing your armor skill line experience only.

Well-fitted: This trait now also reduces the cost of Roll Dodge, in addition to reducing the cost of Sprint.

Precise is best for healing cause of blessed. PvE wise, for PvP probably powered

AfkNinja · April 2016

danno8 wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony. Is that another BoL nerf?

If so, can we get back the 2 additional targets please?

Line of sight changes were needed though. No more hiding in a building to heal people.

tinythinker · April 2016

danno8 wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony. Is that another BoL nerf?

If so, can we get back the 2 additional targets please?

It means if you are in Cyrodill and a wall is between you and your ally you can't safely stand there as a pocket healer while your ally fights someone else. It was one of the big reasons players wanted BoL nerfed. This is different than the TG nerf, which the devs wanted because they thought it made healing too easy and boring.

GreatWhite000 · April 2016

I am looking forward to the changes to stamina templar, but it would be nice if the aedric spear ultimate had a morph that did physical damage now that nightblade has a disease ultimate. Seems fitting.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · April 2016

Im curious to what 'other los blockers mean'. Does that mean a tree? does that mean a rock? will this change impact saying healing up the stairs to a keep? So im on lower level of side breech you're on middle where the first stairs go flat is this included in 'los blockers'. I remember the first change to fiery grip.

Because if Im on breech level and your up the stairs I can see my targets when i heal tilting the camera up, straight I see stairs.

Suru · April 2016

The stamplar buffs, make me really happy. The burning light change was something I really love. ZoS did a good job when implementing a stamina jabs to make their passives work together making burning light scale off weapon or spell damage. Making them physical or magic damage depending on whatever is highest is amazing along with backlash becoming physical aswell.

BoL and Healing ward not being able to go through LoS blockers will be super interesting, I personally don't like it since this is how the abilities have worked since launch which really let healers be creative with positioning. We'll see how it goes, I've retired from my loved Templar Healers, so I'd love to get true feedback from amazing templars like @DisgracefulMind and others who love the Templar class and have experience with it now.

Arkadius · April 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.

^Not in our class section, but this will impact us significantly.

Not sure if I understand this right. Does this mean that sweep heals can't crit at all or can they still crit if the damage part didn't?

timidobserver · April 2016

Purifying Ritual (Cleansing Ritual morph): Renamed this morph to Ritual of Retribution, In addition, we redesigned this morph so it now damages enemies in its area of effect every 2 seconds for the same amount that it heals allies.

^This might potentially be decent for PvE Dps depending on whether the damage procs on overhealing, but for PvP I'd much rather have purifying ritual back.

Suru wrote: »

The stamplar buffs, make me really happy. The burning light change was something I really love. ZoS did a good job when implementing a stamina jabs to make their passives work together making burning light scale off weapon or spell damage. Making them physical or magic damage depending on whatever is highest is amazing along with backlash becoming physical aswell.

BoL and Healing ward not being able to go through LoS blockers will be super interesting, I personally don't like it since this is how the abilities have worked since launch which really let healers be creative with positioning. We'll see how it goes, I've retired from my loved Templar Healers, so I'd love to get true feedback from amazing templars like @DisgracefulMind and others who love the Templar class and have experience with it now.

It's probably going to make Breath of Life work like Focused Charge. A pebble between you and your target will make the heal fail.

Joy_Division · April 2016

I will scream - loudly - if Ritual of Retribution only removes 2 negative effects (as per base ability) and the redesigned version replaces the remove 5 negative effects as oppose to supplements it.

timidobserver · April 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

I will scream - loudly - if Ritual of Retribution only removes 2 negative effects (as per base ability) and the redesigned version replaces the remove 5 negative effects as oppose to supplements it.

The wording implies that they removed the 5 negative effects and replaced it with a AoE DoT. Though I can't login to confirm it.

tinythinker · April 2016

Xiana wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.

^Not in our class section, but this will impact us significantly.

Not sure if I understand this right. Does this mean that sweep heals can't crit at all or can they still crit if the damage part didn't?

From my take it means that it works like this on live:
-Hit a target.
-Chance for damage done to proc a crit (=extra damage and therefore extra healing based on that damage)
-Chance for healing done to proc a crit (=extra healing based on the heal from the damage done)

How it now works for this update:
-Hit a target.
-Chance for damage done to proc a crit (=extra damage and therefore extra healing based on that damage)
-Chance for healing done to proc a crit (=extra healing based on the heal from the damage done)

Hence the "no double dip" explanation in the patch notes.

Zheg · April 2016

In general I like the loss of no-LoS healing, but I do have concerns of how that will actually work given how low the TTK in this game is and how easy it is to break LoS on an ally. The hiding outside a tower isn't something that should be defended, but healers in the back (because of the rapid nerf) trying to heal someone in the group just as a tree came into view or they turned a corner ... we'll see.

Need to test if/how far you can stack the damage from ritual.

Still no reason to use ritual, radiant aura, or remembrance. Sun Shield and morphs will only ever be viable for full-on blazing shield HP stacking builds. Eclipse is still useless, and the new morph is still artificially made worse by the passive that increased the duration. That may have been a glaring oversight, fine, but not something that should be carried into the next quarterly patch and beyond.

In general I think the class changes across the board are the least interesting (for all classes) in comparison to the other changes.

Arkadius · April 2016

@tinythinker

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Thank you.

danno8 · April 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony. Is that another BoL nerf?

If so, can we get back the 2 additional targets please?

Line of sight changes were needed though. No more hiding in a building to heal people.

I understand that. This was the change everyone wanted, not the loss of the extra heal.

So now that this change has gone through, it would be nice to get the extra heal back.

Bigevilpeter · April 2016

EPIC Changes thank you making templars great again :P

Seriously though I love the changes, I think these changes covered most what templars lacked when compared to other classes.

Awesome patch in general keep up the good work

manny254 · April 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

@tinythinker Have you been on PTS yet?

There was no patch note calling out that focused healing now only gives minor mending (8%) instead of major mending (25%), although "minor mending" is using in the focused healing explanation.

I'm wondering if it's an oops on the patch notes, or if the healing was nerfed.

I think and hope it's an "oops", since they just gave us Major Mending last patch LOL!

It was a typo. On pts it is still major mending.

tinythinker · April 2016

danno8 wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Rushed Ceremony. Is that another BoL nerf?

If so, can we get back the 2 additional targets please?

Line of sight changes were needed though. No more hiding in a building to heal people.

I understand that. This was the change everyone wanted, not the loss of the extra heal.

So now that this change has gone through, it would be nice to get the extra heal back.

Yeah, but, the first BoL nerf wasn't "in place of" the LoS complaints/nerf, it was dev-based. They think the old BoL makes healing too easy/boring. So two different types of nerfs with different sources/motivations. Unless the devs think it's too hard to heal now as a Templar, don't hold your breath (hehe) waiting for them to change that back.

Alcast · April 2016

I really wish there was a PHYSICAL damage ULTIMATE for templars.
Cresecent Sweep could be changed to Physical damage for example.

tinythinker · April 2016

Alcast wrote: »

I really wish there was a PHYSICAL damage ULTIMATE for templars.
Cresecent Sweep could be changed to Physical damage for example.

Or it could scale off whichever attribute was higher, like Burning Light does now.