I've previously posted on this thread- but I wanted to touch base about another improvement:
Make the last passive of Sword and Shield more like the Dual Wield passive "Twin Blade and Blunt".
Currently, there is no difference between equipping a Shield with a Mace/Sword/Axe/Dagger. There's no reason to choose one over the other other than aesthetic choice.
Why is there no bonus to equipping an Axe and Shield over a Mace and Shield? It'd be nice if the Axe caused a bleed effect or the Mace ignored armor. Sword and Shield could increase spell/weapon damage slightly and a Dagger and Shield could increase critical damage.
Just spit-balling here... but I thought it should be addressed. Cheers, mate.
I'd like to add another argument from a more fundamental perspective. It seems that many people think that tanks should not be able to dish out damage. However, if you think of movie characters, for example, the characters in heavy armor are often big and very strong and dish out a lot of damage - when they hit.
From this stems an intuition that the main difference between a heavy and a medium character should be the agility and attack speed. A perfect example for this difference is the fight between the Viper and the Mountain in A Game of Thrones. Both dish out damage, the Viper through frequent hits and the Mountain through few very strong hits. Both can handle damage, the Viper by evading it, the Mountain by tanking it.
ESO even already incorporates these elements in principle (weapon traits and armor passives), but sadly some of these factors are negligible when it comes to dps, such as the Well Fitted or Weighted traits, whereas others are fundamental for high damage, such as the Agility passive.
So in short it would be much more intuitive if a tank character could dish out massive amounts of damage, and the game instead offered other ways of balancing the playstyles than simply gimping damage on tanks.
For example it would be great if a high damage heavy armor build would be viable without making it over powered.
A few basic ideas how that could be done: Move the weapon damage bonus to heavy armor, but give medium armor major buffs to attack speed and roll dodge (possibly even a roll dodge malus for heavy). That way MA and HA would be balanced in PvP as MA hits lighter but more often and heavy hits harder but less often, but both with the same dps. HA can tank much more damage but is slower and virtually can't roll dodge whereas MA will evade more damage, but will suffer more when hit.
Magicka users are already in a good spot as they have damage shields and can reserve the stamina pool for blocking and dodging. My ideal playstyle segmentation would allow for all styles to have equal damage mitigation (either through shields, evasion or resistance), and for all styles to have equal dps.
Now people will cry "that would make tanks op in pve as they can absorb and dish out". The truth is that tanking (taunting, blocking, utility) costs time, which lowers dps. So a high dps heavy armor character couldn't do high dps while tanking. The main difference for a high dps HA character is that he could do dps while no tank is required (for specific bosses or trash groups), making the run more fun for a tank and allowing him to offer more utility for the group.
Health regen is the worst stat in the game. Can you please rework some passives that try to make this one better, like the DK passives that increase health regen? This is really a horrible stat
Calling all Tanks!
Please make sure you mention if you primarily play on console or PC.
I am a PC player.
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
I enjoy that Tanking is never quite the same. Unlike when I DPS (or heal) and can button weave (or just button spam), Tanking requires thought, resource management and paying attention to what the bad guys are doing.
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
PvP - there is no reason to Tank in PvP and that's a shame. HA is weak, there is no way to aggro players and in PvP, DPS is king.
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
The Vet Imperial City Prison Overfiend. This guy hits so hard that blocking is a must and therefore resource management is a must, which is made even more challenging because the Healer is usually trying to help the DPS burn down the insidious mobs. He's never "easy" for me, no matter how many times I've faced him.
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
Valkyn Skoria, which is sad because he would likely be one of my favorites except there is a very weird lag in this final battle that causes his attacks to hit "early." Consequently, the normal time between seeing the attack coming and being able to block is not there and I spend entirely too much time knocked down in the lava if I'm not careful.
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
Of the tools meant for tanking, Pierce Armor because it makes the bad guys much more squishy. In general, however, Shuffle just rocks. 20% of the time, it's a "Get out of Jail Free" card for big hits, resource management or when I just eff up.
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
All Tank related skills for PvP need improvement as has been stated many times, but for PvE, Heavy Armor is still a weak point. I only recently recognized how bad HA is when I was in a group, intending to be the DPS and instead was thrust into the role of Tank. In Medium Armor I did not notice that I felt particular stressed by the Vet content. Maybe I just had a great group or Healer or Stamina DKs are tough, but it seems like not being in HA should have made me cry while Tanking.
Make the Nord the Best tank plsHealth regen is the worst stat in the game. Can you please rework some passives that try to make this one better, like the DK passives that increase health regen? This is really a horrible stat
Yes, nord should shine in health regeneration
... standing in fire and laughing at it is fun. Provided your healer has your back ...
I agree with everything else you said, but this is not something I agree with.
This is poor tanking and a pure indicator that the difficulty of current veteran dungeons is broken.
Also, I must point out that i very much like the no-stam recovery while blocking and would prefer to keep it that way.
Granting stamina recovery to tanks would just push both the tank role and the healing role into more DPS builds.
This should be avoided at all cost.
Instead, the devs should focus on improving HA passives and providing all classes with a skill for tanking resource management.
DKs have Helping Hands and Battle Roar passives that are doing the job fine as is.
NBs should get an improvement in the Leeching Strikes morph, to grant resource and health each time that player takes damage.
Sorcs should get an improvement in the Dark Deal morph. Perhaps make it an instant buff that grants health instantly and X stamina for each blocked attack.
Temps should get a reworked Radiant Aura morph, also dedicated to tanking. Make it that this morph grants the player a fixed amount of X stam recovery while blocking.
Also, to address the real problem of tanking in ESO: dps inflation.
I heard they might de-correlate resources with damage and I fully support that idea. Somebody mentioned that max magicka should still scale for healing, so that healers don't stack the same stats as dds, making them just another off-heal damage dealers in the group.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »... standing in fire and laughing at it is fun. Provided your healer has your back ...
I agree with everything else you said, but this is not something I agree with.
This is poor tanking and a pure indicator that the difficulty of current veteran dungeons is broken.
Also, I must point out that i very much like the no-stam recovery while blocking and would prefer to keep it that way.
Granting stamina recovery to tanks would just push both the tank role and the healing role into more DPS builds.
This should be avoided at all cost.
Instead, the devs should focus on improving HA passives and providing all classes with a skill for tanking resource management.
DKs have Helping Hands and Battle Roar passives that are doing the job fine as is.
NBs should get an improvement in the Leeching Strikes morph, to grant resource and health each time that player takes damage.
Sorcs should get an improvement in the Dark Deal morph. Perhaps make it an instant buff that grants health instantly and X stamina for each blocked attack.
Temps should get a reworked Radiant Aura morph, also dedicated to tanking. Make it that this morph grants the player a fixed amount of X stam recovery while blocking.
Also, to address the real problem of tanking in ESO: dps inflation.
I heard they might de-correlate resources with damage and I fully support that idea. Somebody mentioned that max magicka should still scale for healing, so that healers don't stack the same stats as dds, making them just another off-heal damage dealers in the group.
Alternatively, they could create a +Healing stat for sets, enchantments, and equipment. That would solve the problem and I've seen plenty of other games do this. At that point it becomes a choice between Health and Damage in terms of what you slot. Healers who play nightblades might also have to get creative since a lot of their heals are damage based, and therefore a Nightblade healer might actually split pools (This reminds me of the Assault Rifle healer in TSW). Both builds would probably want to build for Crits as well. All in all I believe that just adding in a +Healing stat would be the better call.
Some people consider tanking fun, and some don't. If you don't like to play a certain role, simply switch to something that fits your playstyle more.... The main difference for a high dps HA character is that he could do dps while no tank is required (for specific bosses or trash groups), making the run more fun for a tank and allowing him to offer more utility for the group.
Some people consider tanking fun, and some don't. If you don't like to play a certain role, simply switch to something that fits your playstyle more.
Also dps =/= utility. Crowd control is.
I love tanking. The problem ist the dps power creep. Outside of boss fights I feel useless as a tank. This makes the runs partly boring.
Utility is everything that helps the group. If the group's dps is so high that they don't need the tank to taunt, CC or do anything else on trash mobs, then the only remaining utility the tank can provide is to help with dps to get the trash group ordeal over with quicker.
I love tanking. The problem ist the dps power creep. Outside of boss fights I feel useless as a tank. This makes the runs partly boring.
Utility is everything that helps the group. If the group's dps is so high that they don't need the tank to taunt, CC or do anything else on trash mobs, then the only remaining utility the tank can provide is to help with dps to get the trash group ordeal over with quicker.
Yeah, this^. The only thing I can really do during the trash mobs is crowd control and compact the fight down into AoE range, which helps the DPS' burn it all down faster but really just filler for me until the next boss fight.
First things first: I play an Orc Templar Tank (vr16, 320+ cp), PC, EU and a Redguard NB DD. This probably already explains some of my points.
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Many good things have been mentioned above. Tanking in eso is fun when you can control the “flow of battle”, i.e. control crowds, influence player movement and tank challenging bosses. For me, having the feeling that I am an indispensable element of a group is most rewarding. In short: tanking is fun, if you have the feeling that you’re an essential part of a joint effort.
Having had a second thought, I even think that crowd and movement control is the most fun thing to do because it adds an accentedly strategic element to tanking.
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
I particularly dislike that I don’t have a role in PvP. Actually, I do switch to being a rather horrible healer or focus on interrupting/ stunning enemies. Reason is that I lack damage output and that I don’t have tools at my disposal to force players to attack me/ control their movement in any other way. Another reason is that I don’t want to completely reconfigure my PvE toon each time I enter Cyrodiil just because he’s not competitive.
Another thing I dislike is that Templar tanks don’t have appropriate means at their disposal for crowd control. Tanking big mobs is a bit of a pain in the ass, if you can’t pull them together or pin them down. I would not want to see an aoe taunt here but rather means to pull or root. Stamina sustain is also quite a problem – though less so with a Templar toon because Repentance does its job as long as crowds are around.
3. What is your favourite encounter to tank?
Trials and especially veteran Hel Ra are quite fun. I also like the Craglorn content and some of the pledges.
4. What is your least favourite encounter to tank?
Any encounter where there is little reason for a group to take aboard a tank because it’s more efficient to rely on high dps. PvP sucks as well as a Templar tank because you’re forced to play in a non-tanky manner.
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favourite?
Difficult to say but I think as a Templar tank I probably lack the most fun tool, i.e. proper crowd control. I really feel that a nice crowd control tool would add to the “tank-experience”. Otherwise, pierce armour.
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Armour based damage mitigation really seems to be an issue. I don’t even think that heavy armour provides too little mitigation but that medium and light armour, under certain circumstances, provide too much. My suggestion would be to replace the existing mitigation hard cap with a hard capped damage mitigation based on the respective armour class.
If a character wears …
5 or more pieces of heavy armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 50%
5 or more pieces of medium armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 37.5%
5 or more pieces of light armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 25%
This way it would be possible to circumvent the hard cap but only if a player trades in armour related passive skills for it + cp-related armour buffs wouldn’t work as well. Obviously this approach requires some more fine-tuning but I think it could be a viable way to go.
Shield stacking mages would still be an issue then but how about making every tool that shields you from damage drain your resources? If blocking prevents you from recovering stamina, casting a damage shield or activating mist/ shadow-like skills to avoid damage should reduce your resource recovery rate (i.e. reduced magicka and stamina recovery) as well. Thus, reducing incoming damage would be more of a bargain for each and every role and class. You would have to trade in reduced incoming damage for reduced output. Your choice and not just a drag on tanks then.
Furthermore, I suggest improving the constitution passive to make it having more of an effect on stamina sustain. Plus, the Black Rose set would get a competitive option for tanking as well, i.e. this move could add to tanking gear variety as well. There’ve already been made a few good comments on that so I won’t elaborate on it.
In my view, the Templar class could also benefit from a crowd control skill or you prop up the webs in the undaunted skill line. This way they are accessible for all classes.
Finally, I’d really love to see some form of PvP taunt. I just don’t feel it’s fair to prevent tanks from using one of their main tools in PvP. There were some very smart remarks about that above. A taunt that works on players (like reverse flee) but where players can break free from seems to be a promising idea.
Hopefully I could contribute to this interesting debate.
Cheers
That feel when You die last at fail.1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
That Tank is almost no really need in dungeons.2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
(random order)3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
Engine Guardian, becouse without any DPS or bow my tactics is only cast buffs/vigor and agro 3 adds.4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
As DK i love Volatile Armor.5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
Stamina regen on block -> but only if You got 5 pieces of Heavy Armor.6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Most players tells XXXXXX, some also mentioned YYYYY1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
90% Tanks dont like XXXX4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
@ZOS_Finn
Are You planing to post somekind of summary of this thread?
Like:
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Most players tells XXXXXX, some also mentioned YYYYY
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
90% Tanks dont like XXXX
70% Also YYYY
Etc.
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Cant taunt all mobs so it makes you think as to who is priority to tank first. Tanks can still get 1 shot by some mechanics if you don't play well.
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
How useless you can be in some instances. I know i never run tank in darkshade cavern. In vWGT (i think it's that one) you force the tank to have a dps set up because tanking on one of the boss encounters doesnt work but you never force the DPS or healers to have to change their set ups. If you build for a tank you shouldnt have to have a DPS set up aswell just because of a dungeon mechanic.
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
vDSA
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
Darkshade Caverns
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
Choking talons, cinder storm, heroic slash, chain pull
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard. Needs alot of work. Too many negatives to run.
Wifeaggro13 wrote: »1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Cant taunt all mobs so it makes you think as to who is priority to tank first. Tanks can still get 1 shot by some mechanics if you don't play well.
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
How useless you can be in some instances. I know i never run tank in darkshade cavern. In vWGT (i think it's that one) you force the tank to have a dps set up because tanking on one of the boss encounters doesnt work but you never force the DPS or healers to have to change their set ups. If you build for a tank you shouldnt have to have a DPS set up aswell just because of a dungeon mechanic.
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
vDSA
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
Darkshade Caverns
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
Choking talons, cinder storm, heroic slash, chain pull
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard. Needs alot of work. Too many negatives to run.
In response to your #2 all Tanks are in in ESO is a dps with a taunt. I have trying to get the Dev teams to make tanking a role three months after launch. early end game players like Attorneyatlawl made many videos exposing the imbalance and lack of end game thought to their group content more then 20 months ago. ZOS response was to decrease survivablity and increase DPS lol. Tanking in ESO requires no skill you can sit and hold block and use the taunt or you can DPS and use the taunt. you dont need heavy armor, you dont need to be discerning in pulling, Just run in taunt the Boss and everyone AOE and avoid red puddles. It really comes down to how is your armor glyphed what mundus and what set you are using.My main is a Orc DK. Had i known that Tanking was not actual tanking in ESO but a DPS with a taunt. i would not have put so much energy into this chr. I hardly play anymore because i really do not enjoy DPS roles i always play a tank or a high support class like CC (bard),(enchanter) from other MMO's support roles do not exist in ESO CC is a joke in PVE and 4 man groups do not really allow for hybrid builds. End game here is DPS with a taunt and dedicated healing. extremely rudimentary grouping mechanics and philosophy. I wish this community luck in this thread.
Personofsecrets wrote: »Yea, what do you all think about the Akatosh Scales nerf? That was quite a heavy handed change imo. I understand why it happened, but it just seems unnecessary.
Because this thread is seen by so many Tanks
I would like to ask you all to share your opinion on what kind of possible new Tank set you would like to have.
The cross link is:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/255362/for-the-new-tanking-set-which-2-3-4-bonus-do-you-not-want#latest
The poll question:
For the new tanking set... which 2,3,4 bonus do you not want ?
When I saw the Lunar Bastion set of the TG DLC, my first thought was: hey... looks great !
And then I saw the 2 piece bonus "Adds 4% Healing Taken".... and that was kind of disappointing.
I would have been much happier if Lunar Bastion would for example have been:
2 pcs: 1935 Spell Resistance
3 pcs: 1935 Physical Resistance
4 pcs: Minor Aegis for 5% less damage from Bossmonsters
5 pcs: When you use a synergy you create a lunar blessing for 10 seconds that grants a 2315 Damage Shield to nearby allies every 2 seconds.
Perhaps I am the only one with that opinion...
But if not, perhaps we can give @ZOS_Finn also our joined feedback what we prefer as 2,3,4 piece bonusses for a good tanking set