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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 1, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
[Cross Faction Trials] ZOS, I Personally Thank You For Ruining END GAME Competition
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Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
Let's assume that those players are all from the same faction, and decide to create a new guild and run trials, would you have a problem with that? Because it's the exact same thing3 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
Let's assume that those players are all from the same faction, and decide to create a new guild and run trials, would you have a problem with that? Because it's the exact same thing
I wouldn't, but from what I understand some of the people who would desert their guild in favor of a new cross-faction guild are also players who don't want the leader board change.
One of my friends yesterday even said "I wouldn't like it, but of course I would join a top raiding guild." That situation is just odd to me.Edited by Personofsecrets on March 2, 2016 11:30AMDon't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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unlikely scenario that most likely wouldn't happen? Kind've hard to compare the two when you put them side by side like thatPersonofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
Let's assume that those players are all from the same faction, and decide to create a new guild and run trials, would you have a problem with that? Because it's the exact same thing
On one hand you got the opportunity to join the best 12 players in the whole game, other you have the chance to join the best 12 players in your alliance. It ends up drying up the competition and sort of ruins the need for a guild. Instead it turns into top 12 EU vs top 12 NA.
That's how most of us are seeing it, because people end up doing desperate things to be in the top 12 players, and there are guilds that want to turn to power houses just because why not?
Though a lot of people are saying, most people will stay loyal and such, then if so, what is the point of this absurd change, instead of potentially destroying the leaderboards and guilds (which is going to eventually happen), why not just avoid it.Cross-Faction grouping in trials. I don't care, be my guest.
Cross-Faction weekly rewards. I don't care, be my guest.
Cross-Faction overall leaderboards. No.
if we do this, who does this affect? No one, the less serious players get what they want, and the hardcore raiders get what they want. Why should the 1%ers get treated like complete trash because carebears want a score, that they wont even be able to compete with in the end anyway.
So really, why is there any harm in keeping this out of overall top 100 leaderboards?
Absolutely no reason. @ZOS_GinaBruno please review that.Edited by Nifty2g on March 2, 2016 11:36AM#MOREORBS0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.[/quote]
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Moderator edit - post edited to match moderated contentEdited by ZOS_MollyH on March 2, 2016 1:36PM#MOREORBS1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't see how it's an unlikely scenario, it happens all the time in PvP and PvE, you meet someone that plays well, get him into your guild, if he gets recruited by someone else, well, there you go, competition.
unlikely scenario that most likely wouldn't happen? Kind've hard to compare the two when you put them side by side like thatPersonofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
Let's assume that those players are all from the same faction, and decide to create a new guild and run trials, would you have a problem with that? Because it's the exact same thing
On one hand you got the opportunity to join the best 12 players in the whole game, other you have the chance to join the best 12 players in your alliance. It ends up drying up the competition and sort of ruins the need for a guild. Instead it turns into top 12 EU vs top 12 NA.
That's how most of us are seeing it, because people end up doing desperate things to be in the top 12 players, and there are guilds that want to turn to power houses just because why not?
If there are 12 top NA players, the whole point of competition is that you come up with your own 12 to beat them. If this is going to create new trial groups, how does it dry up the competition? If they are truly the top 12 players, then don't they deserve their top 12 spots?3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Right now the PvE community is very well known to each other, everyone knows who the top players are between NA and EU, it wont be hard to dominate the top scores and then it dries up as people wont even bother trying.
I don't see how it's an unlikely scenario, it happens all the time in PvP and PvE, you meet someone that plays well, get him into your guild, if he gets recruited by someone else, well, there you go, competition.
unlikely scenario that most likely wouldn't happen? Kind've hard to compare the two when you put them side by side like thatPersonofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
Let's assume that those players are all from the same faction, and decide to create a new guild and run trials, would you have a problem with that? Because it's the exact same thing
On one hand you got the opportunity to join the best 12 players in the whole game, other you have the chance to join the best 12 players in your alliance. It ends up drying up the competition and sort of ruins the need for a guild. Instead it turns into top 12 EU vs top 12 NA.
That's how most of us are seeing it, because people end up doing desperate things to be in the top 12 players, and there are guilds that want to turn to power houses just because why not?
If there are 12 top NA players, the whole point of competition is that you come up with your own 12 to beat them. If this is going to create new trial groups, how does it dry up the competition? If they are truly the top 12 players, then don't they deserve their top 12 spots?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now
We all know its going to cause many, many problems in the long run#MOREORBS0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either. There's a difference to not being nice every single second and just backstabbing all your friends to get your ego boosted.Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on March 2, 2016 11:47AMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
#MOREORBS0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
#MOREORBS1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother caring if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on March 2, 2016 11:53AMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD4 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
#MOREORBS1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Because, I'll refer to my earlier postcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now#MOREORBS0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Because, I'll refer to my earlier postcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now
Because of the last thing you said there, you are the leaderboards right now, doesn't mean it'll always be that. If some guild consisting of various alliances come up in a few months and takes over, would it be fair to them if they couldn't be in the leaderboards then just because the current leaderboard people said that it wasn't ok?R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD2 -
EgoRush✭✭✭✭Hmm another issue I just thought up that's relevant to any guild that has tactics they keep written in private forums on their guild websites.
Cross faction becomes available and my guild can now take on AD/DC people. They are skilled enough to be accepted. They get access to our guild website where we detail all our tactics. They take it elsewhere.
Yes, this could've happened before with anyone on EP joining the guild then taking tactics to the competition, but it was far less likely as anyone with an EP main was more often restricted to raiding with EP only (not everyone has alts on other alliances). This becomes more of a trust issue for recruiting new people now and top guilds are potentially going to be far more suspect of new applications than before.Server: EU Pact
Guild: Hodor (PvE - www.hodor-guild.eu), Chimaira (PvE)
Character: Oriantha (Templar Healer), Zelda's Inferno (Dragonknight Tank), The Lumen Sage (Stamina Sorcerer DD), The Umbra Witch (Magicka Nightblade DD), Flirts-With-Boys (Stamina Nightblade DD), Oriantha Ellesidil (Magicka Sorcerer DD/healer), Wariantha (Magicka Warden in the making)
Current vMA score (Templar): Pending return to game
World Record for all trials pre-Thieves Guild
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj clear
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj speed run clear
Returning to the game for Morrowind0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Finding new strats is certainly a type of skill. Execution of those strats is the skill that matters (to me).
Cheering for beating another group in the leader board that doesn't know that they can stack and burn manti hardly seems that worthy. In the vast majority of speed running communities for video games people openly share their strats and welcome opponents to utilize them equally well or better.Don't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel0 -
EgoRush✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Finding new strats is certainly a type of skill. Execution of those strats is the skill that matters (to me).
Cheering for beating another group in the leader board that doesn't know that they can stack and burn manti hardly seems that worthy. In the vast majority of speed running communities for video games people openly share their strats and welcome opponents to utilize them equally well or better.
Ha true and everyone know about most tactics in the old content by now. I don't think I'll be in a rush to take any new applications until world first clear of vMOL though.Server: EU Pact
Guild: Hodor (PvE - www.hodor-guild.eu), Chimaira (PvE)
Character: Oriantha (Templar Healer), Zelda's Inferno (Dragonknight Tank), The Lumen Sage (Stamina Sorcerer DD), The Umbra Witch (Magicka Nightblade DD), Flirts-With-Boys (Stamina Nightblade DD), Oriantha Ellesidil (Magicka Sorcerer DD/healer), Wariantha (Magicka Warden in the making)
Current vMA score (Templar): Pending return to game
World Record for all trials pre-Thieves Guild
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj clear
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj speed run clear
Returning to the game for Morrowind0 -
ZOS_MollyHmodWe are opening this thread back up, but please keep in mind the Code of Conduct before continuing to argue off-topic. Remember - if someone baits you into an argument instead of constructive discussion, you may also end up being disciplined for flaming/bashing. There is great feedback here, but we want to make sure it doesn't devolve into personal arguments so it can stay open. Thanks!The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »This is not a big deal.
No stamina regen while blocking is not a big deal.
You speak true and made me laugh
+ 1 cookie 0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
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Because, I'll refer to my earlier postcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now
Precisely because you are the leaderboards. This gi
Because, I'll refer to my earlier postcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now
Being in the top 100 doesn't entitle you to call the shots on how the scoring evolves. It just means you should be taken seriously because you know what you are talking about, but don't discredit everyone just because they aren't up there.
Imagine if all PvP decisions were taken just listening to the top 100 of each faction? Would be an even bigger disaster than what we currently have.
Making crossfaction leaderboards will allow new players to easily create competitive groups, I don't the harm in that. You aren't giving them an unfair advantage, you are giving them the option to group up with anyone. The value of a guild still matters.
It seems the guilds you mentionned are against it because their top players will leave to join the other top players. Well isn't that the point of having a guild in the first place? Valueing friendship more than a score on the leaderboard?5 -
EgoRush✭✭✭✭
Because, I'll refer to my earlier postcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now
Precisely because you are the leaderboards. This gi
Because, I'll refer to my earlier postcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Are you arguing for the sake of it at this point?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
But in the end it's just a video game lol, a lot of people have this mindset. Which is why it's going to cause a crumble in the PvE community - that's the point I'm trying to get acrosscosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
You might not want to, but when the chance arises I'm sure you friend(s) may think twice about it?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
It's a video game, are you honestly going to stay loyal and common courtesy to people you don't see face to face? How much lying do you do every day anonymously?cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.
So basically those people are scum that you'll just be better off without.
Really, to call people scum on the internet is a very bland insult, because people show who they really are, afterall games are an escape of reality to most people. I doubt you're going to stay the nicest person ever all day everyday - in saying that, there are some people who are nice, really nice but most people are not.
Not the nicest person, no. But I wouldn't just abandon friends that I've made ingame just to be able to show off my E-peen to every other raider either.
And then I'd see who they really are and wouldn't think of it as too much of a loss.
Well, if it is just a video game, why even bother if someone goes to another guild/group or not? As it's not like the world is going to end or anything, right?
Nope, just not understanding on why people think that it's going to ruin things, maybe they should try to just have fun instead of worrying that everything will just fall apart because that people from different factions can play with each other now. Besides, if all the best people go together, maybe see it as a challenge to get better than them?
But I have a question, I've listed the guilds involved with Council of Raiders, which is the current top 1% of guilds competing with each other across megaservers, if we are all against this change for most reasons we have said in here which everyone agress with. May I ask why you are arguing/disagreeing with us for? Considering we are what the leaderboards are right now
Being in the top 100 doesn't entitle you to call the shots on how the scoring evolves. It just means you should be taken seriously because you know what you are talking about, but don't discredit everyone just because they aren't up there.
Imagine if all PvP decisions were taken just listening to the top 100 of each faction? Would be an even bigger disaster than what we currently have.
Making crossfaction leaderboards will allow new players to easily create competitive groups, I don't the harm in that. You aren't giving them an unfair advantage, you are giving them the option to group up with anyone. The value of a guild still matters.
It seems the guilds you mentionned are against it because their top players will leave to join the other top players. Well isn't that the point of having a guild in the first place? Valueing friendship more than a score on the leaderboard?
Just as a side note: not all the top guilds are in agreement over this and there are mixed opinions within each guild
what's important about this thread is to highlight the advantages and disadvantages of both. Also, can't really compare this to PvP as being in the top 100 in PvP is more about time spent in the game than being in the top 100 for PvE - I play maybe 2 evenings a week at most and have every world record in PvE content. Would anyone make top 100 for PvP by playing 2-3 hours for 2 evenings a week? I doubt it.
You bring up a good point about friendship. I've gamed with my team and guild for a long time - they are my friends. I will stay with them and doubt any of them would dissent to other guilds. But then, I wouldn't blame them if they did - we're all here to play the game how we want.Server: EU Pact
Guild: Hodor (PvE - www.hodor-guild.eu), Chimaira (PvE)
Character: Oriantha (Templar Healer), Zelda's Inferno (Dragonknight Tank), The Lumen Sage (Stamina Sorcerer DD), The Umbra Witch (Magicka Nightblade DD), Flirts-With-Boys (Stamina Nightblade DD), Oriantha Ellesidil (Magicka Sorcerer DD/healer), Wariantha (Magicka Warden in the making)
Current vMA score (Templar): Pending return to game
World Record for all trials pre-Thieves Guild
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj clear
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj speed run clear
Returning to the game for Morrowind1 -
Kalebron✭✭✭For cross-alliance grouping, they could just make it where the leaderboard does not count. And, if anyone has not noticed, they said it was a temporary thing.0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's only the fact that your alliance is auto-set to AD when in a group that's temporary. The cross-alliance grouping feature itself is here to stay.For cross-alliance grouping, they could just make it where the leaderboard does not count. And, if anyone has not noticed, they said it was a temporary thing.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭Unless making a cross-faction group alters your stats in some way, leaderboards should be present. Anyone who completes the content with the same conditions as everyone else should have a shot at the leaderboard.
Also, I am seeing 1% tossed around. Why should a company trying to run an MMO change something to benefit 1% of guilds (which is far less than 1% of their player-base)?
It sucks, but that is how it goes when a company is trying to make all of their content appeal to more players. Notice that they tout the lines like
"Earn prestige with leaderboard rankings..."
as a major selling point every time they release content with a leaderboard. (They did it all the way back when Craglorn launched, too.)
You cannot blame a company for trying to make their marketing points more pertinent for more players.
2 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭@Nifty2g
I understand where you are coming from, however nowadays cant you just create a new toon in a different alliance and achieve the same result in a matter of days?5 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've never competed for the overall leaderboards--the most I do is try to get on the weekly, so I'm an "outsider" observing this whole drama...
And as such an "outsider", after all these pages of text, I still find all this rather baffling.
(1) @Addihul had made a post on another thread calling, as a stopgap, for guilds to enact policies against this. Something about barring people who raid with another group. Why not just do this? If there is such strong agreement among the "1%" about this issue, why can't you police yourself and set standards of behavior for yourself instead of asking ZOS to do the policing for you? The theme that I gather is that the problem is a social one, and it rocks the boat and destabilizes the existing social status quo, but as with all social issues, why isn't this something that you can't just work out amongst yourselves?
(2) Someone else in one of these threads mentioned that there is free agency in sports. A city's hockey team, for example, is ostensibly supposed to represent that city. But rarely would you find people on that team who are actually from that city. Or even from that country. Many of the people in US hockey teams are actually Canadians. Yet, despite players in many sports being able to float around, changing teams as they get more lucrative offers, there is still healthy competition in sports. Why would it be different here?
(3) My biggest concern is that an artificial restriction like this would adversely affect people who are currently not in the 1% and who are not currently involved in this existing fraternity of top guilds. For example, once cross-faction trials are enabled, there will be groups that will form that previously couldn't. Good players who used to never run trials can now get a group together more easily and maybe they'll start running this sort of content for the first time. You argue that these people wouldn't care, because they won't get the kinds of scores that would be leaderboard-competitive anyway, and that's probably true... at first. But it's rather short-sighted to permanently relegate them to this status, is it not? What if, over time, a group of friends who play together just for fun get better and better with practice and with their group dynamic, and they start to be able to pull scores that are competitive? What then? Because of an artificial restriction set about by people trying to preserve a status quo, they are to be told that their work is somehow viewed as second-class by the game?
My point is that people should look at the bigger picture. A year or two or three down the line, we could be looking at a whole different roster of people at the top, as new people come into the game and as existing players move on. How would they feel about such a restriction? "You got a good score, but, sorry, because of guild politics years ago, your score is void for the leaderboard for a reason that you will find arcane and baffling." If the problem is about all the social-interaction implications of cross-faction leaderboards, then why not just solve it socially instead of demanding an ironclad systemic restriction?Edited by code65536 on March 2, 2016 3:11PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information11 -
xAPxZeez✭✭While I see this as an issue I can't help laughing at the irony here. The elite top end guilds who shun and reject people because they feel aren't good enough are now possibly the victim of this themselves.
Our guild has done this with trial teams A, B, C and there is always hard feelings when someone gets replaced or moved down. This will be happening on a much larger scale.
I hate the leaderboards and wish they were completely removed from the game. They bring out the worst in people.4 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »@Nifty2g
I understand where you are coming from, however nowadays cant you just create a new toon in a different alliance and achieve the same result in a matter of days?
Nope. Alliance War and Undaunted skill lines will take most players more than a few days.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
EgoRush✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »@Nifty2g
I understand where you are coming from, however nowadays cant you just create a new toon in a different alliance and achieve the same result in a matter of days?
Nope. Alliance War and Undaunted skill lines will take most players more than a few days.
The changes to alliance war XP needed for skills will make this much easier post-Thieves Guild. Something I'm thankful for ha.Server: EU Pact
Guild: Hodor (PvE - www.hodor-guild.eu), Chimaira (PvE)
Character: Oriantha (Templar Healer), Zelda's Inferno (Dragonknight Tank), The Lumen Sage (Stamina Sorcerer DD), The Umbra Witch (Magicka Nightblade DD), Flirts-With-Boys (Stamina Nightblade DD), Oriantha Ellesidil (Magicka Sorcerer DD/healer), Wariantha (Magicka Warden in the making)
Current vMA score (Templar): Pending return to game
World Record for all trials pre-Thieves Guild
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj clear
World first V16 Maw of Lorkhaj speed run clear
Returning to the game for Morrowind0