[Cross Faction Trials] ZOS, I Personally Thank You For Ruining END GAME Competition

AyelineESO · March 2016

I dont really care about leaderboards (in this game atleast) but why dont just add a "crossed faction group " - only leaderboard like some1 already suggested?

With this, people could compete against other "personal allstar teams" aswell as with the scores from the guild leaderboard. Its not that the players from an "allstar team" are not going to play with their guild anymore and If they do so... well, u dont need such players. Be happy that they have shown u their real 'face'

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2016

Fetaro wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The way I see it you have no idea whether in my argument I was a bad a good or an amazing player. Contrary to your logic I don't always consider the repercussions for myself first, but more for the community as a whole.

You said that amazing players will group together, and that the other players will have to do without them :

If cross faction leaderboards were to be a thing then all of the amazing players would group together and never have anyone to compete with and ruin it for the others who maybe are good players on their way to becoming amazing players.

Well, I missed the underscored part. But what I'll say will not be nice : what the hell is going on in your head ? What is this crappy logic ? Amazing players will play together, so nobody will have the chance to become amazing ? How did these amazing people become amazing ? They aren't born like that. They played a lot, trained hard, studied strategies, learnt from their many mistakes and to master their characters. They didn't rely on stronger than them, because there are nobody stronger than them. That's how they became and are amazing players. Do like them : stop whining, and work hard. (oh, btw I'm not part of these amazing people. I don't have the time nor the dedication to become one)

Ok, first of all stop it with the personal attacks, keep the discussion constructive. I dont know you and you dont know me so shush:) Anyone with any sense can understand the reasons why all of the top competitive guilds are against this change. Since you are for it, clearly you are not in a top guild, so it wouldn't really affect you as much as it would those top guilds. This change would NOT promote competition, which I'm assuming you are a supporter of. This change would create superteams and instead of Top 10 guilds having scores that are pretty close to one another, we will 1 NA guild and 1 EU guild with scores that are close to each other and everyone else vying for the second place.

As I have stated in an earlier post, the amazing people become amazing by learning, they learn from their own experiences as well as from guidance of other players who may at that time be better at them. I often find that many very bad players when given proper guidance can excel and surpass those that are considered good, when you explain to them how to do things correctly. What you are advocating will promote the opposite. By spreading out the exceptional people the rest of the community may grow. By centralizing the best in a single source you are stifling competition and stifling the learning experience for the community as a whole. I am definitely for constantly mingling experienced and inexperienced people, which is why I choose to pug content 9/10 times.

Personofsecrets · March 2016

This is not a big deal.

Personofsecrets · March 2016

>Post thieves guild
>Running with same faction guild
>Running against a guild that is composed of different factions

I fail to see where there is an anti-competitive aspect of this.

Joy_Division · March 2016

I do agree with the OP's sentiment.

I do like the option of cross-faction trials grouping so I can run them for fun with my friends on different factions.

However, this change does threaten current guild identity and loyalty as they have been founded upon the framework of single-faction competition. I remember from my time in WKB, there was a definite pride amongst the AD raiding community that we believed were we the best and were inspired to do better from the competition from DC and EP guilds. That is being lost to an extent as now guilds can just recruit anyone and make "all-star" teams as opposed to working with and improving the people already in the guild.

Personofsecrets · March 2016

So we are we worried about our friends playing with another faction team to crush the leader boards? It sounds like the problem might be the players being "traitors" rather than the developers making this change.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , perhaps making the leader board account based rather than toon based would prevent making the problems that players in this thread predict to happen.

Nifty2g · March 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

So we are we worried about our friends playing with another faction team to crush the leader boards? It sounds like the problem might be the players being "traitors" rather than the developers making this change.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , perhaps making the leader board account based rather than toon based would prevent making the problems that players in this thread predict to happen.

I disagree on leaderboard account based for the following reasons; if I play multiple roles I want to be rewarded for doing that role. As another player is.

Thus which is why they don;t make it account based, which was touched upon in CoR meeting.

I see really no good from including a ranked cross faction trial. IF anything, include weekly scores but not overall scores. I'm sure everyone will be okay with that?

Personofsecrets · March 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

So we are we worried about our friends playing with another faction team to crush the leader boards? It sounds like the problem might be the players being "traitors" rather than the developers making this change.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , perhaps making the leader board account based rather than toon based would prevent making the problems that players in this thread predict to happen.

I disagree on leaderboard account based for the following reasons; if I play multiple roles I want to be rewarded for doing that role. As another player is.

Thus which is why they don;t make it account based, which was touched upon in CoR meeting.

I see really no good from including a ranked cross faction trial. IF anything, include weekly scores but not overall scores. I'm sure everyone will be okay with that?

That would be a good distinction in the learderboard to let players still feel as though factions matter and prevent guild drama, but still allow the hyper-competitive something to work on.

Woeler · March 2016

I'll just clearly state my points again since some seem to lack certain neurons responsible for reading:

Cross-Faction grouping in trials. I don't care, be my guest.
Cross-Faction weekly rewards. I don't care, be my guest.
Cross-Faction overall leaderboards. No.

Nifty2g · March 2016

Woeler wrote: »

I'll just clearly state my points again since some seem to lack certain neurons responsible for reading:

Cross-Faction grouping in trials. I don't care, be my guest.
Cross-Faction weekly rewards. I don't care, be my guest.
Cross-Faction overall leaderboards. No.

Hmm I put that in the OP for @ZOS to read it
does @ZOS even tag anyone lol

Mojmir · March 2016

lol isn't this typical ZoS fashion though? you get something you want with a "silver lining". getting punished for asking for something to be introduced.

driosketch · March 2016

I'm not sure I understand your argument. You are fine with cross faction, but they should remove the leader board because it kills competition?

Maybe it's because I don't run trials, but how exactly does it ruin things?

Wouldn't guilds still want to run with their own members? Maybe some guilds can't already field 12 members in all three factions, guilds are cross faction after all, so a guild group could field a team with any of its member's characters.

Maybe you fear all star teams, I don't know. Fill me in here.

Bluepitbull13 · March 2016

driosketch wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand your argument. You are fine with cross faction, but they should remove the leader board because it kills competition?

Maybe it's because I don't run trials, but how exactly does it ruin things?

Wouldn't guilds still want to run with their own members? Maybe some guilds can't already field 12 members in all three factions, guilds are cross faction after all, so a guild group could field a team with any of its member's characters.

Maybe you fear all star teams, I don't know. Fill me in here.

there's 5 pages explaining everything you're asking

Personofsecrets · March 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

lol isn't this typical ZoS fashion though? you get something you want with a "silver lining". getting punished for asking for something to be introduced.

yup

driosketch · March 2016

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand your argument. You are fine with cross faction, but they should remove the leader board because it kills competition?

Maybe it's because I don't run trials, but how exactly does it ruin things?

Wouldn't guilds still want to run with their own members? Maybe some guilds can't already field 12 members in all three factions, guilds are cross faction after all, so a guild group could field a team with any of its member's characters.

Maybe you fear all star teams, I don't know. Fill me in here.

there's 5 pages explaining everything you're asking

@Bluepitbull13
So the allstar thing then?

Still, are there only 12, or is it less than 24, such players on the server, all with the same schedule? And none of them have any qualms about breaking friendships over leader board rewards?

phreatophile · March 2016

If cross-faction grouping were to be ineligible for leaderboards the same people who are here railing against it will be back in a months time bragging in their posts or signatures about their, frankly, quite impressive, non eligible accomplishments in their All Star/Super Group runs. Everybody will still know who's top dog. People's pride will ensure that.

Bluepitbull13 · March 2016

driosketch wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand your argument. You are fine with cross faction, but they should remove the leader board because it kills competition?

Maybe it's because I don't run trials, but how exactly does it ruin things?

Wouldn't guilds still want to run with their own members? Maybe some guilds can't already field 12 members in all three factions, guilds are cross faction after all, so a guild group could field a team with any of its member's characters.

Maybe you fear all star teams, I don't know. Fill me in here.

there's 5 pages explaining everything you're asking

@Bluepitbull13
So the allstar thing then?

Still, are there only 12, or is it less than 24, such players on the server, all with the same schedule? And none of them have any qualms about breaking friendships over leader board rewards?

Mine is the lack of diversity in guilds, why make a new one and compete in your own faction/opposing faction when you can just join the opposing faction and gg

Decado · March 2016

Keep at it @Nifty2g let's try and get this stopped!

I was really looking forward to the leaderboard reset and new trial with the weekly rewards thinking it was about to get competitive and fun again! I really hope they don't ruin it with this,

For the record I have no problem with people being able to group up and run trials together, I actually think it would be really funny to get all the top raiders jn one group and see what numbers you come out with but I do not believe it should be counted to the leaderboards and me personally
Don't think it should count for weekly either

Gilliamtherogue · March 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This is not a big deal.

No stamina regen while blocking is not a big deal.

swaggasm · March 2016

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This is not a big deal.

No stamina regen while blocking is not a big deal.

:^()

Personofsecrets · March 2016

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This is not a big deal.

No stamina regen while blocking is not a big deal.

and?

D0ntevenL1ft · March 2016

Sorry is no one picking up on the elitism attitude of the OP? Agree with the post but c'mon now.. Elitism is alive and well even within this thread.

Nifty2g · March 2016

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Sorry is no one picking up on the elitism attitude of the OP? Agree with the post but c'mon now.. Elitism is alive and well even within this thread.

1. Go to MMO forum
2. Pick random remark
3. Call it elitism
4. ???
5. Win argument

However, no I'm not being elitist, what makes you say that? I'm asking for competition to stay alive.

Personofsecrets · March 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't we have a meeting with the Top Guilds from NA and EU a few months back where you specifically told us and informed us that cross faction is coming, however it wont impact leaderboards - what happened to that?

I think Rich said something along the lines of development for the game being ever changing and that we all have to get used to design not ending up as how we were told they would be. That isn't a great PR approach, but are there other reasons for being opposed to multi-faction leader boards besides the promise that they wouldn't be true to past developments word and the possible bad feelings that people get from guild drama?

If those are the biggest reasons against multi-faction leader boards, then I don't see the opposition as having a strong argument to change the developers minds. Development already admits to changing their minds about things they say they would do or not do and player behavior, such as making drama or elitist attitudes, is outside the scope of what developers should have to deal with in their making of the game.

This all being said, do the developers actually have a good reason as to why they made this change? Is it due to a technical difficulty perhaps?

Personofsecrets · March 2016

I Highlander l wrote: »

ElSlayer wrote: »

Then you are best players and totally deserve it. What's the problem?
Can you already start to describe it or you have came here just to inform other players about how much free time you have to spend on this game?

Because, creating a group of 12 cross factions to dominate the board, completely destroys the alliance theme of ESO.

I dont play to try to beat a "Group of players". I play to beat a guild name that solely belongs to one alliance, to beat an opposite colour. Thats where the competition is, remove that and you bury any form of guild competition that is the only thing keeping end game alive.

Competition could be better with mutli-faction leader boards. Yea, it won't feel like we are LARPing as our faction, but I don't see how that matters from the standpoint of wanting the best competition that we can get.

SienneYviete · March 2016

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Sorry is no one picking up on the elitism attitude of the OP? Agree with the post but c'mon now.. Elitism is alive and well even within this thread.

There is a fine line between elitism and what I see from some of the posts here as genuine caution as to the way this will play out and frustration from some of the misunderstanding replies in this thread. It's genuinely a touchy subject.

Personofsecrets · March 2016

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Sorry is no one picking up on the elitism attitude of the OP? Agree with the post but c'mon now.. Elitism is alive and well even within this thread.

That is a bit odd to try and stamp out elitism, but also openly say how all of the players who have the best leader board positions (the elites) share the same opinions about the direction of leader board scoring.

TheDarkShadow · March 2016

I don't play competitive in this game, but a few years ago when I had more free time, I were in one of the top tier raiding guild of another game that are much more focus on raiding than ESO. What I saw is only a dozen "core" players have the chance to do raid in the guild weekly raid day. The rest of the guild members have to wait in a LONG line, holding hope that for some reason someone in the "core" team cannot make it that day, and then MAYBE the leader would call for you. Sometime it's not because the core team is so much better than the rest of the guild, it's just because they have known each other longer, have more chance to practice with the mechanic in some raid. It's clearly not fun to people who would never have a chance to practice and prove themselves, never have a chance to get the best gear or show up in the leader board.

So I support cross-faction group and leaderboard score for them. Less competitive? I think it's even more competitive for the guilds since now you would have to compete with other guilds for the best players. Better guilds would attract better players. And even "the 5'th replacement in line" have more chance to find a group and get into the leader board if the core group of their guild doesn't have place for them. If they could beat it, then why shouldn't they get the score?

Etaniel · March 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Why shouldn't friends from different alliances be able to compete for leaderboard places? If some of the top players would band together for that and backstab all the friends they got in the other guild they're in, then they're just not worth anything as people and you're just better off without them.

I mean, why are the leaderboards soooooo important that you want to keep other people from playing with people of other alliances? Being able to show off your E-peen to your fellow raiders? The gold reward each week? As otherwise I don't know why you'd care honestly.

Ok lets allow cross faction pvp? Kappa

I'd be ok with that, I don't PvP myself tho. But if it meant that people could play with their friends, sure.

That's me to the OP and all that whine about the same thing, lol.

Except its hard to get an opinion if you don't currently compete with the top scores - your argument is that you just want to play with friends, we don't mind that it's cool, but should it have a score attached to it, no we don't want that because that ruins all the competitiveness we've worked for.

End Game is made for the 1%ers, they come to us for advice and suggestions, we give it to them. So now they are turning around and slapping us with this sort of change, who does this directly affect? The people competing.

Does this affect you guys in the same way? No but I guess it's a cool thought to play with people from your trade guild and get some scores, but I don't understand they aren't competitive scores - so why should this change directly affect us who do care and going for it.

That is the main point of this argument.

I've read the whole thread, I still don't see how this ruins the competitiveness you've worked towards. If only the top guilds in the current leaderboards are against it, that means that none of them are in favor of cheesing their way to the top and most people will stay loyal within their guilds, so what you fear will actually not happen (and I still fail to see why it would matter).
Wether your competition is made up of 12 people from 3 factions, or 12 people from one faction, it's still one group with a score, and it's up to you to beat it. I really don't see the problem.

Personofsecrets · March 2016

The inside baseball that I've heard @Etaniel is that some of the players from these top guilds have already said that they would abandon their normal groups in favor of a stronger cross-faction group.