[Cross Faction Trials] ZOS, I Personally Thank You For Ruining END GAME Competition

Nifty2g

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get the point i've readed all the comments but if cross faction trial leaderboards is coming the only thing that i see is that the top pve guilds ( that have anyway an elitist attitude) will compete for the same leaderboards making basically impossible for anyone else to reach the top positions (anyway the rewards will go to the top 100 so who cares?)
Or the leaderboards are already cross faction ?
In both cases i cant understand why is a problem, why it will increment the elitism, why it affects the lore???

Or the real issue is that members of your own guild will go with the top members of another faction guild erasing all the World records?

Alright, you want to talk about weeklies.

What if we all came together and dominated the leaderboards stopping players unable to get them ever get on the leaderboards.
Don't forget that time I put all 8 of my toons on the VDSA weekly and made 3million gold.
Now just imagine 100 other people doing that with all of their cross faction toons.

BEZDNA

Woeler wrote: »

Competition is eliminated, because there is nobody to compete with. Boards will be dominated by one group, other guilds will suffer losses or even diffuse all together.

Competition is eliminated because there is nothing to compete for. The only real competition now is who will first finish new trial, hard mode and speed run. As soon as all these 3 things will be cleared - competition will be gone for 1 more year until new trial or some sort of arena will be implemented. Whole leaderboard system is very poor developed and cross faction trials change has nothing to do with that.

Nifty2g

I forgot @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS please keep an eye on this thread and take this feedback accordingly I really do hope you guys see we're trying to fix the game up to remove things like this for a potential break out.
Not only that but many guilds right now feel like they got slapped in the face for all the feedback they've been putting in.

Tonnopesce

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get the point i've readed all the comments but if cross faction trial leaderboards is coming the only thing that i see is that the top pve guilds ( that have anyway an elitist attitude) will compete for the same leaderboards making basically impossible for anyone else to reach the top positions (anyway the rewards will go to the top 100 so who cares?)
Or the leaderboards are already cross faction ?
In both cases i cant understand why is a problem, why it will increment the elitism, why it affects the lore???

Or the real issue is that members of your own guild will go with the top members of another faction guild erasing all the World records?

Alright, you want to talk about weeklies.

What if we all came together and dominated the leaderboards stopping players unable to get them ever get on the leaderboards.
Don't forget that time I put all 8 of my toons on the VDSA weekly and made 3million gold.
Now just imagine 100 other people doing that with all of their cross faction toons.

There will be only more competition between those players, i will enjoy it if id care about it, is direct competiton basically PVP without fighting.
In any case the 90% of the game population will never get into a leaderboard, if you see the pvp pov we have already a TOP players leaderboard that is shared between the factions where only the "creme de la creme" can enter but we have even the faction restricted leaderboards that gives you the rewards.
The only difference is that AP farmers are not the best players around, maybe in the pve leaderboars it will be different who knows??

Nifty2g

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get the point i've readed all the comments but if cross faction trial leaderboards is coming the only thing that i see is that the top pve guilds ( that have anyway an elitist attitude) will compete for the same leaderboards making basically impossible for anyone else to reach the top positions (anyway the rewards will go to the top 100 so who cares?)
Or the leaderboards are already cross faction ?
In both cases i cant understand why is a problem, why it will increment the elitism, why it affects the lore???

Or the real issue is that members of your own guild will go with the top members of another faction guild erasing all the World records?

Alright, you want to talk about weeklies.

What if we all came together and dominated the leaderboards stopping players unable to get them ever get on the leaderboards.
Don't forget that time I put all 8 of my toons on the VDSA weekly and made 3million gold.
Now just imagine 100 other people doing that with all of their cross faction toons.

There will be only more competition between those players, i will enjoy it if id care about it, is direct competiton basically PVP without fighting.
In any case the 90% of the game population will never get into a leaderboard, if you see the pvp pov we have already a TOP players leaderboard that is shared between the factions where only the "creme de la creme" can enter but we have even the faction restricted leaderboards that gives you the rewards.
The only difference is that AP farmers are not the best players around, maybe in the pve leaderboars it will be different who knows??

We're all calling it how we see it, right now the guilds I posted in the OP are the guilds who are dominating the scores - now, we all agree this will ruin it.
So once we all decide to leave and move on if this change makes it, what will happen then? Trials will slowly fade out and PvE will slow down? There are a lot of games coming out, I just want ZOS to make the right choice.

Not only that but weekly rewards, just wait until you see us getting all the loot so easily with our characters and then watching the rest of the community get nothing. You'll see the impact this will have.

Holy-Dope

Every guild wants to be on the top Leader-board position, but it's the players who make it happen. And every guild has some elite players, who even though don't say it, they know and feel that they are above the rest and are not able to progress or get better scores at these competition as being held back by people who are lesser... and when you open this road, where they can group with other players, do you think they will prefer to raid with their guild or in a hidden small group of elite players...

I've already heard many of these elite players saying that if given chance they will switch to play with a certain guild or they want to re-roll a new chr in another faction to play with xyz guild and we've witnessed this before where people left to form a new guild and member poaching from their previous guild happened (now i don't want to name & shame any here) but this is a reality in ESO.

With the cross faction Scoring possible, I won't waste my time running with mediocre people trying to finish sometime meant for elite players and running with them.

*There was a meeting y'day of "Council of raiders with ZOS" about the new trial only. Not sure if it happened or what came out from the meeting. Will update...

Tonnopesce

So you don't want to compete between each other (or with other pug groups that thanks to this change will become more powerful) and you are menacing zos that you will leave if they don't do as you please?

Really mature GZ!

Tonnopesce

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

So you don't want to compete between each other (or with other pug groups that thanks to this change will become more powerful) and you are menacing zos that you will leave if they don't do as you please?

Really mature GZ!

Or i still don't get your point... you know i'm not a top player

PriorityBalle

Guys, just roll with it.

Nifty2g

Holy-Dope wrote: »

Every guild wants to be on the top Leader-board position, but it's the players who make it happen. And every guild has some elite players, who even though don't say it, they know and feel that they are above the rest and are not able to progress or get better scores at these competition as being held back by people who are lesser... and when you open this road, where they can group with other players, do you think they will prefer to raid with their guild or in a hidden small group of elite players...

I've already heard many of these elite players saying that if given chance they will switch to play with a certain guild or they want to re-roll a new chr in another faction to play with xyz guild and we've witnessed this before where people left to form a new guild and member poaching from their previous guild happened (now i don't want to name & shame any here) but this is a reality in ESO.

With the cross faction Scoring possible, I won't waste my time running with mediocre people trying to finish sometime meant for elite players and running with them.

*There was a meeting y'day of "Council of raiders with ZOS" about the new trial only. Not sure if it happened or what came out from the meeting. Will update...

Discussed a few topics of bugs, main point of the meeting was all of the people opposing this idea.

andy_s

Or give -5% damage bonus to a group that has deserters

ElSlayer

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get the point i've readed all the comments but if cross faction trial leaderboards is coming the only thing that i see is that the top pve guilds ( that have anyway an elitist attitude) will compete for the same leaderboards making basically impossible for anyone else to reach the top positions (anyway the rewards will go to the top 100 so who cares?)
Or the leaderboards are already cross faction ?
In both cases i cant understand why is a problem, why it will increment the elitism, why it affects the lore???

Or the real issue is that members of your own guild will go with the top members of another faction guild erasing all the World records?

Alright, you want to talk about weeklies.

What if we all came together and dominated the leaderboards stopping players unable to get them ever get on the leaderboards.
Don't forget that time I put all 8 of my toons on the VDSA weekly and made 3million gold.
Now just imagine 100 other people doing that with all of their cross faction toons.

Then you are best players and totally deserve it. What's the problem?
Can you already start to describe it or you have came here just to inform other players about how much free time you have to spend on this game?

Tonnopesce

Holy-Dope wrote: »

Every guild wants to be on the top Leader-board position, but it's the players who make it happen. And every guild has some elite players, who even though don't say it, they know and feel that they are above the rest and are not able to progress or get better scores at these competition as being held back by people who are lesser... and when you open this road, where they can group with other players, do you think they will prefer to raid with their guild or in a hidden small group of elite players...

I've already heard many of these elite players saying that if given chance they will switch to play with a certain guild or they want to re-roll a new chr in another faction to play with xyz guild and we've witnessed this before where people left to form a new guild and member poaching from their previous guild happened (now i don't want to name & shame any here) but this is a reality in ESO.

With the cross faction Scoring possible, I won't waste my time running with mediocre people trying to finish sometime meant for elite players and running with them.

*There was a meeting y'day of "Council of raiders with ZOS" about the new trial only. Not sure if it happened or what came out from the meeting. Will update...

OK this is more clear i somehow get it but again if it is a cross faction leaderboard just for the psicological reward of be the TOP ,with a faction locked leaderboards aside that gives all the reward and stuff, it will be good imho

Nifty2g

ElSlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get the point i've readed all the comments but if cross faction trial leaderboards is coming the only thing that i see is that the top pve guilds ( that have anyway an elitist attitude) will compete for the same leaderboards making basically impossible for anyone else to reach the top positions (anyway the rewards will go to the top 100 so who cares?)
Or the leaderboards are already cross faction ?
In both cases i cant understand why is a problem, why it will increment the elitism, why it affects the lore???

Or the real issue is that members of your own guild will go with the top members of another faction guild erasing all the World records?

Alright, you want to talk about weeklies.

What if we all came together and dominated the leaderboards stopping players unable to get them ever get on the leaderboards.
Don't forget that time I put all 8 of my toons on the VDSA weekly and made 3million gold.
Now just imagine 100 other people doing that with all of their cross faction toons.

Then you are best players and totally deserve it. What's the problem?
Can you already start to describe it or you have came here just to inform other players about how much free time you have to spend on this game?

So you start to realise how your argument is, and that we're actually trying to keep the game in order and resort to personal attacks.
I should be doing homework smh

Holy-Dope

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Holy-Dope wrote: »

OK this is more clear i somehow get it but again if it is a cross faction leaderboard just for the psicological reward of be the TOP ,with a faction locked leaderboards aside that gives all the reward and stuff, it will be good imho

that is what you got right...and anyway if people do go ahead and do the cross faction trial instead of their guild and end up beating it, it aint gonna be no secret and I'm not sure how guilds should react on such behavior as all of them oppose the very idea of CFT.

Woeler

ElSlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm in both NA top guilds right now, so hearing that from the top players posting in this thread, it means something.

What does it mean exactly?

Any competition leads to elitism by its own nature. Competition is all about e-peen measurement.
And you know what's the best thing to show off your e-peen? - Leaderboards!

I don't see how this feature will "destroy" leaderboards, but if it would be destroyed - THEN there would be LESS elitism.



Ok, now away from elitism.

This is MMO game.
There are cross-faction guilds.
There are people from different alliances who made friendship there and want to play together.
They would like to do Trials together AND to get scored, but don't want to spend time on leveling chars from same faction.

ZOS has made it possible.
ZOS has made a really usefull feature that help people to overcome their problems.
Friends have LESS restrictions when playing together and have access to FULL experience including ranking in leaderboards.
That feature was probably hard to implement in first place as there were barriers in software architecture (that "Aldmeri Dominion" thing points to that).

ZOS did an actually complex work that helped people (unlike you).
What the hell wrong with you people?

1. Go to MMO forum
2. Pick random remark
3. Call it elitism
4. ???
5. Win argument

Why is it that we, as hardcore raiders can't just have our own little part of this game. Why do carebears always have to come around and bash everything that has to with competition and actually putting some decent effort in this game? So tell me, why can't the top-end players have the leaderboards designed like they like it? Because on the end they will be the only ones using them anyway.

There is nothing "wrong with us people", we want our part of the game too, and it is just a small part of it, so how about letting other people have their opinions and parts of the game they enjoy? One might ask, what is wrong with YOU!

DerpyShadowz

Holy-Dope wrote: »

Every guild wants to be on the top Leader-board position, but it's the players who make it happen. And every guild has some elite players, who even though don't say it, they know and feel that they are above the rest and are not able to progress or get better scores at these competition as being held back by people who are lesser... and when you open this road, where they can group with other players, do you think they will prefer to raid with their guild or in a hidden small group of elite players...

I've already heard many of these elite players saying that if given chance they will switch to play with a certain guild or they want to re-roll a new chr in another faction to play with xyz guild and we've witnessed this before where people left to form a new guild and member poaching from their previous guild happened (now i don't want to name & shame any here) but this is a reality in ESO.

With the cross faction Scoring possible, I won't waste my time running with mediocre people trying to finish sometime meant for elite players and running with them.

*There was a meeting y'day of "Council of raiders with ZOS" about the new trial only. Not sure if it happened or what came out from the meeting. Will update...

Took the words out of my mouth.

Fluffy_Fr0zR

I cant help but chuckle about the things stated by majority here.
I fail to see how exactly it is ZoS fault of "destroying" your guilds.
To me it doesnt look like you have that much of a proper, solid and healthy guild environment and atmosphere in your PvE guilds in the first place, if you fear elitist behaviour and disloyalty before this even goes life.
Its a natural thing that you surround yourself with the best, if you want to achieve best. You kinda sound like the guy sin school who were not getting picked into groupworks.
Im waiting for the next person here to add that there shouldnt be dps-meters in the game either, for elitist reasons.
Summed up, i fail to see ZoS fault in this, the arguments you are stating are literally only showing a *** community.
Personally I appreciate the change, its just adding a possiblity to play with friends outside your own alliance. Exploiting that into disloyalty and elitism is kinda your own choice boys.
Anyways, who expects logic from pure PvE heroes :>

Tonnopesce

Holy-Dope wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Holy-Dope wrote: »

OK this is more clear i somehow get it but again if it is a cross faction leaderboard just for the psicological reward of be the TOP ,with a faction locked leaderboards aside that gives all the reward and stuff, it will be good imho

that is what you got right...and anyway if people do go ahead and do the cross faction trial instead of their guild and end up beating it, it aint gonna be no secret and I'm not sure how guilds should react on such behavior as all of them oppose the very idea of CFT.

They should have opposed the multi guild system in first place you know is the main plague of this game.
But if a player want to compete alone a trial without his guild ( not in another ) why not?

DisgracefulMind

Woeler wrote: »

ElSlayer wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm in both NA top guilds right now, so hearing that from the top players posting in this thread, it means something.

What does it mean exactly?

Any competition leads to elitism by its own nature. Competition is all about e-peen measurement.
And you know what's the best thing to show off your e-peen? - Leaderboards!

I don't see how this feature will "destroy" leaderboards, but if it would be destroyed - THEN there would be LESS elitism.



Ok, now away from elitism.

This is MMO game.
There are cross-faction guilds.
There are people from different alliances who made friendship there and want to play together.
They would like to do Trials together AND to get scored, but don't want to spend time on leveling chars from same faction.

ZOS has made it possible.
ZOS has made a really usefull feature that help people to overcome their problems.
Friends have LESS restrictions when playing together and have access to FULL experience including ranking in leaderboards.
That feature was probably hard to implement in first place as there were barriers in software architecture (that "Aldmeri Dominion" thing points to that).

ZOS did an actually complex work that helped people (unlike you).
What the hell wrong with you people?

1. Go to MMO forum
2. Pick random remark
3. Call it elitism
4. ???
5. Win argument

Why is it that we, as hardcore raiders can't just have our own little part of this game. Why do carebears always have to come around and bash everything that has to with competition and actually putting some decent effort in this game? So tell me, why can't the top-end players have the leaderboards designed like they like it? Because on the end they will be the only ones using them anyway.

There is nothing "wrong with us people", we want our part of the game too, and it is just a small part of it, so how about letting other people have their opinions and parts of the game they enjoy? One might ask, what is wrong with YOU!

This, exactly.

Master_Fluff

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the "endgame pve guilds" just want to keep the leaderboard positions to themselves.

Holy-Dope

Fluffy_Fr0zR wrote: »

I cant help but chuckle about the things stated by majority here.
I fail to see how exactly it is ZoS fault of "destroying" your guilds.
To me it doesnt look like you have that much of a proper, solid and healthy guild environment and atmosphere in your PvE guilds in the first place, if you fear elitist behaviour and disloyalty before this even goes life.
Its a natural thing that you surround yourself with the best, if you want to achieve best. You kinda sound like the guy sin school who were not getting picked into groupworks.
Im waiting for the next person here to add that there shouldnt be dps-meters in the game either, for elitist reasons.
Summed up, i fail to see ZoS fault in this, the arguments you are stating are literally only showing a *** community.
Personally I appreciate the change, its just adding a possiblity to play with friends outside your own alliance. Exploiting that into disloyalty and elitism is kinda your own choice boys.
Anyways, who expects logic from pure PvE heroes :>

Did you even read the OP or so many other threads or just came here to rant. No one is against the idea of CFT but it being in the leader-board. And it's not that pond is messy but some fishes will be....

DerpyShadowz

ElSlayer wrote: »

Then you are best players and totally deserve it. What's the problem?
Can you already start to describe it or you have came here just to inform other players about how much free time you have to spend on this game?

Because, creating a group of 12 cross factions to dominate the board, completely destroys the alliance theme of ESO.

I dont play to try to beat a "Group of players". I play to beat a guild name that solely belongs to one alliance, to beat an opposite colour. Thats where the competition is, remove that and you bury any form of guild competition that is the only thing keeping end game alive.

Nifty2g

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the "endgame pve guilds" just want to keep the leaderboard positions to themselves.

With these guilds

The Order of Mundus
Crown Store Heroes
Learn 2 Play
Almost Heroes
Baby Face Bananas
Kung Fu Bananas
Beyond Infinity
Hodor
Sigma Draconis
Blut & Schweiss

that is 120 people on the leaderboards which only allow 100 people now, so there will be a bit of competition between us.

I don't think theres a problem with people holding leaderboard spots, hasn't been for the past 2 years either.

Now imagine those 120 people have 2+ alt accounts, lets give everyone 3 accounts cause thats the normal, suddenly that 120 is now 360 names. Which causes more problems as thats a whole lot of people who can't get on.

So this is going to turn into a farm session for the first lets say 4+ months until we all get our gear, now where does that leave people outside of the "top raiding guilds".

DisgracefulMind

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the "endgame pve guilds" just want to keep the leaderboard positions to themselves.

I'm not sure you're understanding that this will mean the hardcore endgame pve guilds actually could keep the entire leaderboard positions to themselves. Not just a few slots...I mean the entire thing. What makes you think that guilds aren't going to just turn around and farm the entire leaderboards? Right now we have it as a collection of guilds competing with each other for top scores; which doesn't affect most of you who don't bother to compete in endgame pve, because if it did affect you, you'd be competing anyways.

But for a cross-faction leaderboard, even the smaller guilds who fight it out for the lower spots will easily be knocked off and dissolved. So, no, it's not just about the top guilds, it's about how it's all going to collide when and if it goes live.

Look at the bigger picture.

Holy-Dope

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the "endgame pve guilds" just want to keep the leaderboard positions to themselves.

I'm not sure you're understanding that this will mean the hardcore endgame pve guilds actually could keep the entire leaderboard positions to themselves. Not just a few slots...I mean the entire thing. What makes you think that guilds aren't going to just turn around and farm the entire leaderboards? Right now we have it as a collection of guilds competing with each other for top scores; which doesn't affect most of you who don't bother to compete in endgame pve, because if it did affect you, you'd be competing anyways.

But for a cross-faction leaderboard, even the smaller guilds who fight it out for the lower spots will easily be knocked off and dissolved. So, no, it's not just about the top guilds, it's about how it's all going to collide when and if it goes live.

Look at the bigger picture.

^^
So, i'm confused here now. are we discussing CFT with people from different faction and guilds competing together or End game PVE guilds competing at all...

Darlon

nvm...

Darlon

Nifty2g wrote: »

that is 120 people on the leaderboards which only allow 100 people now, so there will be a bit of competition between us.

Isn't this being changed to the old leaderboards again ? where a lot more people will be able to get on there ?

Hamrb

So, I'm the GM of a PvE guild. We are na pc, and we are AD and EP. What's the problem with us all being able to trial together? Why would this suddenly make all other trials groups stop?

If you guys want to talk about why trials are unpopular, well think about the v12-14 items that have been rewarded. In the opinion of a guy who asked many a player to run trials, this is the biggest reason people say no.

Since the IC the only good reason to trial, was for competition and leaderboards

oibam

Cross Faction

for Dungeons vet and normal mode: yes
for Trials normal mode: yes
for Trials vet mode: NO