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PTS Patch Notes v2.3.3

  • CP5
    CP5
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    Can someone explain how getting the killing blow is somehow challenging? This just seems like a very stupid idea in my opinion. Why on earth do you guys never listen to your customers. We dont like this change. We dont want this change. Stop being arrogant and forcing your ideas on the player base when clearly noone who pays your salary wants this. Did you guys not learn from imperial city?

    It's a challenge since all the dps'ers need to cut all of their damage before the boss gets to low and then everyone needs to survive while the tanks and healers go in for the kill, eventually. Plus it makes the content 'harder' since the same group needs to kill the boss once per member in the group.
  • Xantaria
    Xantaria
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    Aquanova wrote: »
    I see our characters have not been copied on this patch. Is EU getting a second week in a row or are both servers just getting templates to try out?

    NA already had 2 weeks.
    Xantaria - Lead of Chimaira
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  • John_1999
    John_1999
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    Can someone explain how getting the killing blow is somehow challenging? This just seems like a very stupid idea in my opinion. Why on earth do you guys never listen to your customers. We dont like this change. We dont want this change. Stop being arrogant and forcing your ideas on the player base when clearly noone who pays your salary wants this. Did you guys not learn from imperial city?

    give this man a cookie
    Magicka Templar: Tammi von Tamriel
    Stammina Templar: John James Smith

    -Current CP: 3601-

    -Just a noob in a world full of pro's.-
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  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    CP5 wrote: »
    Can someone explain how getting the killing blow is somehow challenging? This just seems like a very stupid idea in my opinion. Why on earth do you guys never listen to your customers. We dont like this change. We dont want this change. Stop being arrogant and forcing your ideas on the player base when clearly noone who pays your salary wants this. Did you guys not learn from imperial city?

    It's a challenge since all the dps'ers need to cut all of their damage before the boss gets to low and then everyone needs to survive while the tanks and healers go in for the kill, eventually. Plus it makes the content 'harder' since the same group needs to kill the boss once per member in the group.

    Thats called tedium not challenge.
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    CP5 wrote: »
    hrothbern wrote: »
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Ra'Shtar wrote: »
    • The Shadow Slayer achievement will no longer award credit to all group members in the Trial; instead, it will just award credit to the player character that lands the killing blow on a Void Caller, as originally intended.

    Well this is like giving the middle finger to tanks and healers so please change this not everything revolves around the dps you know.

    The intent behind this achievement is to encourage a broader range of players venturing into the Dark Behind the World to earn credit. We realize that tanks and healers will find this achievement a bit more challenging with the recent change, but we want this achievement to require a fair bit of coordination, communication, and teamwork. It will be tougher, yes, but not impossible. We can definitely take a look at the achievement and how it is completed.

    huh ?

    @ZOS_Finn ,

    What do you mean ? That in order to get as a Tank / Healer this achievement... You have to coordinate as a team that the DPS guys stop with damage dealing at very low health of a Void Caller, so that Tanks / Healers can land the killing blow .

    Is that what you mean ???

    That's what it sounds like. That would make it a challenging achievement to get sure but I see it causing far more frustration instead.

    Is this achievement a player achievement or a character achievement? If it is a player achievement and it is only necessary to do it once on any one of the characters on the account, then this is not an unreasonable achievement. If this is something that has to be done per character, then I can see a definite level of frustration.

    Ideally, though, it should give the achievement to anyone who has enough in the pot to get XP from the kill.

    There are no account-wide achievements. Only some rewards such as dyes are account-wide. The achievement itself and any associated titles are tied to the character that earned the achievement.
    Edited by daemonios on February 23, 2016 3:00PM
  • TheM0rganism
    TheM0rganism
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    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    The intent behind this achievement is to encourage a broader range of players venturing into the Dark Behind the World to earn credit. We realize that tanks and healers will find this achievement a bit more challenging with the recent change, but we want this achievement to require a fair bit of coordination, communication, and teamwork. It will be tougher, yes, but not impossible. We can definitely take a look at the achievement and how it is completed.

    TRANSLATION: "Tanking and Healing are not worthy of commendation. You fell for the "role" meme, you ignorant rubes. Now re-roll Magika DK or we'll make blocking cost magika too."
    Edited by TheM0rganism on February 23, 2016 4:47PM
    PS4 DC Stamina Templar Tank/DPS...because I ALWAYS play on hard mode
    #2233 - Never Forget
  • TheM0rganism
    TheM0rganism
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    Thats called tedium not challenge.

    ^ This
    Edited by TheM0rganism on February 23, 2016 4:49PM
    PS4 DC Stamina Templar Tank/DPS...because I ALWAYS play on hard mode
    #2233 - Never Forget
  • joleda4ub17_ESO
    joleda4ub17_ESO
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    ZOS is following the current trend in games: Everyone brings their own DPS. There are several MMO's out there that don't have the Tanker-Healer-Damager trio setup, and more on the horizon. They think they're giving us what we want.
  • lonewolf26
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    CP5 wrote: »
    Can someone explain how getting the killing blow is somehow challenging? This just seems like a very stupid idea in my opinion. Why on earth do you guys never listen to your customers. We dont like this change. We dont want this change. Stop being arrogant and forcing your ideas on the player base when clearly noone who pays your salary wants this. Did you guys not learn from imperial city?

    It's a challenge since all the dps'ers need to cut all of their damage before the boss gets to low and then everyone needs to survive while the tanks and healers go in for the kill, eventually. Plus it makes the content 'harder' since the same group needs to kill the boss once per member in the group.

    To me getting this kind of achievement in this way involves the worst aspects of king making meta games, the charity case. If someone handed you a win, would you take it? Yes! Would you feel it was an achievement? Probably not.

    I'd love to participate in such a meta game, but at the same time keep it out of the main game's achievement rewards.
  • kadar
    kadar
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Empowering Chains (Fiery Grip morph): Fixed an issue where this morph would not pull you to your target if they blocked or absorbed the damage.

    I hope this also includes dodging. A gap closer that does not close the gap when the target dodge rolls is useless.

    I agree Gap closers should gap close... For consistency I see what you mean.

    But that wouldn't really even make sense. You throw a chain at someone, the chain misses hitting nothing but thin air, and then you are magically pulled toward the target you never hit?
  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    Quests
    • Cleaning House:
      • This quest is now available immediately after completing "Partners in Crime."
    Does this affect any of the other quests' requirements? Or are they still each tied to successive Guild ranks? Does this mean that there is no quest unlocked at Guild Rank 2 any more?
    You'll get Guild Rank 2 after you complete Partners in Crime, which then unlocks Cleaning House.

    Still see that theirs no changes to make Meteor reflectable again.

    Times running out ZOS.
    We stated last week (and a couple weeks ago) that we have no plans to make Meteor reflectable again.

    Then fix all the other counterable, dodgable, negatable ultimates overload should be the ONLY exception
    PS4 NA
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  • Ytterin
    Ytterin
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    lonewolf26 wrote: »
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Ra'Shtar wrote: »
    • The Shadow Slayer achievement will no longer award credit to all group members in the Trial; instead, it will just award credit to the player character that lands the killing blow on a Void Caller, as originally intended.

    Well this is like giving the middle finger to tanks and healers so please change this not everything revolves around the dps you know.

    The intent behind this achievement is to encourage a broader range of players venturing into the Dark Behind the World to earn credit. We realize that tanks and healers will find this achievement a bit more challenging with the recent change, but we want this achievement to require a fair bit of coordination, communication, and teamwork. It will be tougher, yes, but not impossible. We can definitely take a look at the achievement and how it is completed.

    I would like to see this reworked as well. It seems to unfairly lock out tanks and healers except those that get an incidental last hit. I don't like to accidentally get my achievements, I like to earn them. I feel I would have earned it enough keeping the raid up in either position.

    As a healer i think it is fun. It will spice up a little game i play. It is called How many people will die while I jesus beam this boss to death.

    And if ZOS doesn't see that this is exactly what this change will do (make tanks and healers stop filling that role at the end of the fight, letting dps die while they try to grab the KB... well then they don't understand people.
  • Aleraon
    Aleraon
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    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    [*] The Shadow Slayer achievement will no longer award credit to all group members in the Trial; instead, it will just award credit to the player character that lands the killing blow on a Void Caller, as originally intended.
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    The intent behind this achievement is to encourage a broader range of players venturing into the Dark Behind the World to earn credit. We realize that tanks and healers will find this achievement a bit more challenging with the recent change, but we want this achievement to require a fair bit of coordination, communication, and teamwork. It will be tougher, yes, but not impossible. We can definitely take a look at the achievement and how it is completed.

    Surely if an achievement requires a group to be able to get it then that achievement should be awarded to the group, especially in trials. You don't want your healers saying "hang on a minute guys I just need to kill this thing over here" then resuming healing duty only to find everyone's already dead already.

    For a solo dungeon such an achievement is fine but for one requiring a group of 12 players, not so much. Sometimes even getting 12 players together for trials is in itself an achievement.
    (EU/AD) CP501 Razum-dah - Khajiiti Templar Healer
    (EU/AD) CP501 J'Kara Silverclaw - Khajiiti Dragonknight tank
    (EU/AD) CP501 Rajhiin - Khajiiti stamina Nightblade
    (EU/AD) CP501 Draven Corvillian - Breton magicka Nightblade
    (EU/AD) CP501 Sinderian Nightflame - High Elf magicka sorcerer
    (EU/AD) CP501 J'zargo Silverclaw - Khajiit stamina Templar
    (EU/AD) CP501 Ariella Nightshade - High Elf Magicka Nightblade
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  • DrenYol
    DrenYol
    Soul Shriven
    Fasalla’s Guile: This item set no longer procs its healing debuff from single-target damage over time effects. Area damage over time effects from abilities such as Caltrops will still trigger the effect. <3
  • Dreddlock-
    Dreddlock-
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    Puncturing strikes and its morphs need to apply the snare on the first hit.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    Can you tell Eric Worbel to do this for us templars.

    1.Apply biting jabs snare on the initial hit.

    2.Change Radial Sweep to a physical damage ultimate.

    3.And finally make Rune focus fully mobilized.

    Give Templar a true CC so we can stand our ground or excape.

    I saw the latest ESO live stream and realize that he plans on addressing stamina class as a whole on update 9.... Dark brotherhood, but that's a long ways away. If he and his team could at least accomplish steps 1 and 2 before Thieves Guild drops, templar will remain competitive. The other two can be implemented next patch.

    Let's talk templar excape/ mobility. I get it, we are ment to stand our ground. To do this properly Templar NEED a group CC again. Nothing to powerful. Just one that finally addresses Templars weakness.

    If Templars can't excape then we should make it that our enemies can't pursue us! A ranged Root would accomplish this. Here's a idea Eric Worbel can use free of charge...

    Sun Spot: envelope your enemy in searing light causing a Dot.
    morph1: sun spot (s) now decreases Dot damage and roots multiple enemies in place.
    morph2: solar polarity caster envelopes self in light for 4 seconds melee attackers are knocked back and stunned for 2 seconds.

    PS. If you can't fully fix Toppling Charge it's ok, we understand. Just remove it completely and create a new Templar gap closer.
  • GeertKarel
    GeertKarel
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    It seems that most random crashes in the PTS server has been solved, damn good job Zenimax!
    Server: EU Pact
    Guild: Hodor
  • Zaldan
    Zaldan
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Empowering Chains (Fiery Grip morph): Fixed an issue where this morph would not pull you to your target if they blocked or absorbed the damage.

    I hope this also includes dodging. A gap closer that does not close the gap when the target dodge rolls is useless.

    I agree Gap closers should gap close... For consistency I see what you mean.

    But that wouldn't really even make sense. You throw a chain at someone, the chain misses hitting nothing but thin air, and then you are magically pulled toward the target you never hit?

    make sense? really? 7 foot heavy armoured nord throws those same chains at a 4 foot bosmer in light armour and it's the nord that moves lol, makes about as much sense as the rest of the game ;)
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
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    aka.@Cuthceol
  • ZOS_Seiffer
    ZOS_Seiffer
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    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.
    Senior Designer | Dungeon Team
    Staff Post
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    Again you dont get it. Players dont like it. Why would you force something on players they dont want?
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    Again you dont get it. Players dont like it. Why would you force something on players they dont want?

    To be honest, those players who did know what the Void Callers were declined to mention that they're 1-shottable. I for one thought they were regular bosses. As it is, I can't really say I'm against the achievement being given to the player who actually gets the thing.
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    daemonios wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    Again you dont get it. Players dont like it. Why would you force something on players they dont want?

    To be honest, those players who did know what the Void Callers were declined to mention that they're 1-shottable. I for one thought they were regular bosses. As it is, I can't really say I'm against the achievement being given to the player who actually gets the thing.

    "Play as you want" I thought?
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    daemonios wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    Again you dont get it. Players dont like it. Why would you force something on players they dont want?

    To be honest, those players who did know what the Void Callers were declined to mention that they're 1-shottable. I for one thought they were regular bosses. As it is, I can't really say I'm against the achievement being given to the player who actually gets the thing.

    "Play as you want" I thought?

    Firstly, I don't think "play as you want" means the public gets to vote on every issue of the game. You've for America's got Talent for that.

    Secondly, I imagine others like me were lead to believe tanks and healers would be all but prevented from getting this achievement. That doesn't seem to be the case, so it might change how players feel about the change.
  • code65536
    code65536
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    The ease of killing the Void Callers isn't really relevant, though; the issue is who goes into that back room in the first place. We would never send the tank in because, well, he's busy with the boss. We would never send the healer in because, well, he's busy keeping everyone alive. We don't send just any DPS in, because speed is very important (esp. since failing to find all six fast enough is an automatic wipe of the entire raid even on normal), so we prefer to only send people with easy access to Major Expedition. Ideally, a sorc or a nightblade, because their sources of Major Expedition--Lightning Form and Path of Darkness--will also conveniently kill the Void Callers once they're revealed.

    For me personally, this isn't an issue because I tank and DPS on the same character, and I've run MoL on the PTS as both roles. But that's not true for many tanks or healers.

    Edit: On my normal runs on the PTS, when I was placed on the Void Caller team, I'd kill about 4 of them in that run. So to get the kill-25 achievement on normal MoL, I'd have to do at least 6 runs where I'm on the Void Caller team. I can see tanks and healers doing one normal run where they abandon their usual role and do Void Callers for fun and for the achievement. But six runs? They must have some very patient friends...
    Edited by code65536 on February 24, 2016 8:55PM
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  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    The ease of killing the Void Callers isn't really relevant, though; the issue is who goes into that room in the first place. We don't send the tank in because, well, he's busy with the boss. We don't send the healer in because, well, he's busy keeping everyone alive. We don't send just any DPS in, because speed is very important, so we prefer to send people with easy access to Major Expedition. Preferably a sorc or a nightblade, because they have sources of Major Expedition--Lightning Form and Path of Darkness--that will conveniently kill the Void Callers once they're revealed.

    For me personally, this isn't an issue because I tank and DPS on the same character, and I've run MoL on the PTS as both roles. But that's not true for many tanks or healers.

    So, wait, is this some sort of optional fight DURING a boss fight? If that's the case, then I'm going back to my original position. Either the achievement has to be completely reworked so that everyone has a chance to get it, or basically the team is credited for every kill, regardless of the player doing it.
  • code65536
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    daemonios wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    The ease of killing the Void Callers isn't really relevant, though; the issue is who goes into that room in the first place. We don't send the tank in because, well, he's busy with the boss. We don't send the healer in because, well, he's busy keeping everyone alive. We don't send just any DPS in, because speed is very important, so we prefer to send people with easy access to Major Expedition. Preferably a sorc or a nightblade, because they have sources of Major Expedition--Lightning Form and Path of Darkness--that will conveniently kill the Void Callers once they're revealed.

    For me personally, this isn't an issue because I tank and DPS on the same character, and I've run MoL on the PTS as both roles. But that's not true for many tanks or healers.

    So, wait, is this some sort of optional fight DURING a boss fight? If that's the case, then I'm going back to my original position. Either the achievement has to be completely reworked so that everyone has a chance to get it, or basically the team is credited for every kill, regardless of the player doing it.

    It depends on what you mean by "optional". There is a stage of the final boss fight where a small group has to split off and enter a separate area to seek out the hidden Void Callers (in my runs, we usually had 3 people assigned to this task). Failing to do so fast enough will result in everyone wiping. So it's not "optional" in that this is a mechanic that must be dealt with; you can't ignore it and not send anyone to deal with the Void Callers. But it is "optional" in that you choose who's going to be in the Void Caller team (unlike Mantikora's bottom group--there is zero RNG involved here in who gets to go). The problem is that you can't just send anyone in; it's a race against time to reveal them, so you want fast players. And since the boss fight is still on-going during all this, the tank and healers need to stay with the main group.
    Edited by code65536 on February 24, 2016 7:58PM
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  • Ra'Shtar
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    This changes little it leaves the question '' are healers and tanks needed there? '' if they are not needed groups wont risk loosing a healer or a tank just because they want that achievement.

    Edited by Ra'Shtar on February 24, 2016 9:00PM
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  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    Seems to me logic says to just make it a group achievement. Rather than challenge all this adds is tedium to an otherwise enjoyable trial.
    Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on February 24, 2016 8:03PM
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    code65536 wrote: »
    daemonios wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    The ease of killing the Void Callers isn't really relevant, though; the issue is who goes into that room in the first place. We don't send the tank in because, well, he's busy with the boss. We don't send the healer in because, well, he's busy keeping everyone alive. We don't send just any DPS in, because speed is very important, so we prefer to send people with easy access to Major Expedition. Preferably a sorc or a nightblade, because they have sources of Major Expedition--Lightning Form and Path of Darkness--that will conveniently kill the Void Callers once they're revealed.

    For me personally, this isn't an issue because I tank and DPS on the same character, and I've run MoL on the PTS as both roles. But that's not true for many tanks or healers.

    So, wait, is this some sort of optional fight DURING a boss fight? If that's the case, then I'm going back to my original position. Either the achievement has to be completely reworked so that everyone has a chance to get it, or basically the team is credited for every kill, regardless of the player doing it.

    It depends on what you mean by "optional". There is a stage of the final boss fight where a small group has to split off and enter a separate area to seek out the hidden Void Callers (in my runs, we usually had 3 people assigned to this task). Failing to do so fast enough will result in everyone wiping. So it's not "optional" in that this is a mechanic that must be dealt with; you can't ignore it and not send anyone to deal with the Void Callers. But it is "optional" in that you choose who's going to be in the Void Caller team (unlike Mantikora's bottom group--there is zero RNG involved here in who gets to go). The problem is that you can't just send anyone in; it's a race against time to reveal them, so you want fast players. And since the boss fight is still on-going during all this, the tank and healers need to stay with the main group.

    Thanks for the thorough description. I'd say @Seiffer 's post is a bit misleading then, and the criticisms fully justified. I don't understand why ZOS would do this, especially why they would change it from something that made sense into something that just promotes more complaints by healers and tanks that they're being swept to the side.
  • staracino_ESO
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    I think that the achievement needs to be reworked to be something more than just kill x enemies. Those sorts of achievements were lame when there were 2 for each vet dungeon, and they are less imaginative when it is for a trial. All it does in encourage you to run the dungeon more times, and not play in a new way you may not have thought of.
    The other side of the spectrum would be encouraging bad play to get the achievement. A good example of this is "Out of the Frying Pan." This type of achievement encourage individual players to selfishly endanger themselves or the entire group just so they can get the achievement. The proposed method to getting Shadow Slayer Falls into this category.
    A good achievement, by comparison, is the "Entry Denied" or "Darklight Dancer" achievement. These require the entire group to work for it, and it is granted to the entire group when it is completed.
    I understand that a group skilled enough to run the trial can arrange to let players get Shadow Slayer, but I am not sure players ever liked this sort of achievement in any MMO I have ever played. I know I personally never did, since it requires several runs and having many (in this case 12) players have to adjust their play-style to accommodate. An achievement that requires 12 people to shift to accommodate should be one that can be decided upon as a group and awarded to the group as a team. An example would be if the fight were tweaked so that it was possible to win without killing the Void Callers. The achievement would be for doing the final boss without killing them, and would emphasize the jobs of the tanks and healers since they would have to pick up the extra damage/healing that would come for trying this as a sort of "Hard Mode."
  • SirDopey
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    Seiffer wrote: »
    Hi everyone!

    The discussion about the change to the Shadow Slayer achievement has some excellent points being raised. One important aspect that hasn't been mentioned however, is that the Void Callers you must defeat in order to gain credit are all one-hit kills. Should you choose to adventure out into The Dark Behind the World and hunt for the Void Callers, whether you are a tank, a healer or a damage dealer, all of the tools are provided to you in order to locate and kill the Void Callers. In fact as a healer or a tank, you may find that the abilities you use to keep yourself alive a big asset in surviving some of the incoming damage while searching for Void Callers.

    This achievement is not regulated to the Veteran mode either. This achievement can be worked on by doing both the Normal and Veteran versions of the trial. Also as iteration continues based on feedback from the PTS, we are adjusting the number of Void Callers necessary to complete the achievement. Instead of defeating 50 Void Callers, the achievement will require 25 Void Callers.

    Again you dont get it. Players dont like it. Why would you force something on players they dont want?

    I'm a tank so I should only Tank. I'm a healer so I should only heal. DPS only DPSs and keeps dying, dude, don't you have any self heals??? I think people are being a little extreme about something that takes one shot to kill. Its like WGT when you get a tank or healer that can't close portals, geez I H8 those guys, this game doesn't cater to one dimensional builds
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