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TALONS CC IS BLOCKABLE! Thanks ZOS!

  • willymchilybily
    willymchilybily
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    Sanct16 wrote: »
    Wollust wrote: »
    I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.

    I expect they thought (like i did initially) some changes might actually benefit us, natural class sustain in a patch where sustain is important because less damage/ more cost to heal.

    As such this talons change wouldn't look so bad if DK's became a master race. Unfortunately turns out longer TTK didnt lead to the expected out come. Or at least not my expected outcome, (who knows what ZOS aim for when they make a decision) I guess though as they are already talking about reversing this decision in this thread, what they aimed for wasnt what they achieved for the magicka DK
    Dk has bad resourcemanagement, no burst, no escape, no execute.... They even nerfed Battle Roar to ***... Dk didnt get any buff, why would they suddenly be good?

    1.5 DK had good resourcemanagment in 1vX fights because of the ultimate gain, ever after 1.6 Dk always struggles with resources.

    1.6 stamina DK is my only reference as a console player, and i had good resource management (i found) in 1.6 comparable to other classes (not other game versions). it was better than my NB, and Sorc, though low level sorc. So presumed that class based advantage and the longer TTK (not going to be 1 shot) would pay off.

    of course in hindsight, its not good if you cant kill anything or need to spam 20 whips just to kill one battle leveled VR3, and longer battles just means longer for re-inforcements to arrive. Class heal already only healing missing health i honestly didnt think would be touched by battle spirit seems madness to only heal 15% of my missing health. Who would slot a heal that barely peaks at 2k heal when in execute range.
    Edited by willymchilybily on September 23, 2015 10:53AM
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  • Wollust
    Wollust
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    Sanct16 wrote: »
    Wollust wrote: »
    I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.

    I expect they thought (like i did initially) some changes might actually benefit us, natural class sustain in a patch where sustain is important because less damage/ more cost to heal.

    As such this talons change wouldn't look so bad if DK's became a master race. Unfortunately turns out longer TTK didnt lead to the expected out come. Or at least not my expected outcome, (who knows what ZOS aim for when they make a decision) I guess though as they are already talking about reversing this decision in this thread, what they aimed for wasnt what they achieved for the magicka DK
    Dk has bad resourcemanagement, no burst, no escape, no execute.... They even nerfed Battle Roar to ***... Dk didnt get any buff, why would they suddenly be good?

    1.5 DK had good resourcemanagment in 1vX fights because of the ultimate gain, ever after 1.6 Dk always struggles with resources.

    1.6 is my only reference as a console player, and i had good resource management (i found) in 1.6 comparable to other classes not other game versions. it was better than my NB, and Sorc, though low level sorc. so pressumed that class based advantage and the longer TTK (not going to be 1 shot) would pay off. ofcourse its not good if you cant kill anything or need to spam 20 whips just to kill one battle leveled VR3

    I played all classes in 1.6 with my DK as my main. And the DK had the hardest time sustaining IF you also wanted to be able to do some mediumhigh amount of damage. While I could streak endlessly, recast my shields and hit like a truck with my sorc, rolldodge endlessly and 2shot people with my NB. Templar though seemed to have it similiar but slightly better imo if you didn't want to be only a healer.
    But this is just my point of view and I might be biased. :smile:
    And now with 1.7 the nerfs hit all classes, but the damageoutput seems still meh on the DK compared to NB and Sorc.

    Edit: Don't jump me here, I am not asking for any damagenerfs for NB and Sorcs, rather for damagebuffs to balance this.
    Edited by Wollust on September 23, 2015 10:51AM
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  • Junglejim82
    Junglejim82
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    With dodge changes roots have became OP . Either revert the change to roll or make roots the same as other ccs. Break out for immunity no rolling required. Then make it unblockable
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  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    With dodge changes roots have became OP . Either revert the change to roll or make roots the same as other ccs. Break out for immunity no rolling required. Then make it unblockable
    Yep roots are OP against DKs. Sors bolt escape with roots. NB - teleport strkes with roots and Templars purge them. All these 3 skills are very popular for those 3 classes so they do not have to slot a special skill just to counter roots.

    Edited by Bashev on September 23, 2015 11:07AM
    Because I can!
  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
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    frozywozy wrote: »
    Dredlord wrote: »
    All cc should be blockable now with the changes to block and stam regen.

    Both hard and soft cc is far to powerful in a game with no cooldowns to not have that option.

    Once your knee stops jerking you may even realize it is a good change for the game.

    No. All CCs should have different diminishing returns for roots, snares, fears, silences, stuns.
    Also, you should not be able to CC break every 6seconds but every 1-2minutes or so.
    CC breaking should not give CC immunity but a diminishing return.
    Abilities, passives and gear bonuses could still provide CC Immunity for X seconds.

    Sounds like you plagiarized those ideas from another game. That game had cooldowns on its skills.

    That would be a terrible idea for eso. Really really terrible.
  • remedios17
    remedios17
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    The main problem here is that they ONLY made talons as a blockable root. If they would have said that hmm guys since we nerfed dodge roll, so from now on you are able to block ALL form of root (encase, bombard, or that crippling stuff that nbs have, whatnot) then I would have said yeah sure sounds fair (maybe) but this is not the case.

    Either revert the change or make EVERY single root ability blockable but nerfing DK again it is just a joke. They already in a *** position PvP wise.

    This is all because of the L2P boys. They nerfed scales (tbh i dont really feel the negative effect of it) BUT still Cyro is full of bow guys WHO keep sniping you EVEN if they saw that scales. BUT hail god the dmg reduction now they can realize after the 10x snipe that they are getting back all of it :D and do not die after 1-2 snipe... :D :D

    In additaion to the DK nerfs just look the DK videos from 1.5 it is NOT the DK who is a walking GOD it is the enemies who are just bad and can not counter a DK... :D


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  • Iyas
    Iyas
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    remedios17 wrote: »
    The main problem here is that they ONLY made talons as a blockable root. If they would have said that hmm guys since we nerfed dodge roll, so from now on you are able to block ALL form of root (encase, bombard, or that crippling stuff that nbs have, whatnot) then I would have said yeah sure sounds fair (maybe) but this is not the case.

    Either revert the change or make EVERY single root ability blockable but nerfing DK again it is just a joke. They already in a *** position PvP wise.

    This is all because of the L2P boys. They nerfed scales (tbh i dont really feel the negative effect of it) BUT still Cyro is full of bow guys WHO keep sniping you EVEN if they saw that scales. BUT hail god the dmg reduction now they can realize after the 10x snipe that they are getting back all of it :D and do not die after 1-2 snipe... :D :D

    In additaion to the DK nerfs just look the DK videos from 1.5 it is NOT the DK who is a walking GOD it is the enemies who are just bad and can not counter a DK... :D


    Bombard and cripple are blockable and even before 1.7...
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  • ThyIronFist
    ThyIronFist
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    1433424622776.jpg

    Ok, seriously though. LOL. There is no hope left for this game. You guys are absolutely clueless. Beyond clueless.

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  • remedios17
    remedios17
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    1433424622776.jpg

    Ok, seriously though. LOL. There is no hope left for this game. You guys are absolutely clueless. Beyond clueless.

    How do u like your DK now XD
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  • Talcyndl
    Talcyndl
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    remedios17 wrote: »
    How do u like your DK now XD

    Gah....I blame the invincible Vamp DKs that ruled for about a month after launch. Ever since it seems ZOS has decided that DKs must be nerfed - repeatedly.
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  • Scyantific
    Scyantific
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    Lol what kind of idiot thought this was a go-

    Wait nvm I know the answer to thar question. It was Wrobel wasn't it?
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  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Talcyndl wrote: »
    remedios17 wrote: »
    How do u like your DK now XD

    Gah....I blame the invincible Vamp DKs that ruled for about a month after launch. Ever since it seems ZOS has decided that DKs must be nerfed - repeatedly.

    The Streak-->bats sorcs were almost as bad. But yes, this is the reason.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Talcyndl wrote: »
    remedios17 wrote: »
    How do u like your DK now XD

    Gah....I blame the invincible Vamp DKs that ruled for about a month after launch. Ever since it seems ZOS has decided that DKs must be nerfed - repeatedly.
    They were sorcs and the cost of the ultimate for them was 4. DKs used the other morph.

    Because I can!
  • Talcyndl
    Talcyndl
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    Bashev wrote: »
    They were sorcs and the cost of the ultimate for them was 4. DKs used the other morph.

    While sorcs have had their uber periods, I'm talking about DK Vamps who stood in the middle of 15 enemies and survived. That was the build which led to the first (of many) nerfs of DKs (and some limited nerfs of vamps).
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  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Talcyndl wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    They were sorcs and the cost of the ultimate for them was 4. DKs used the other morph.

    While sorcs have had their uber periods, I'm talking about DK Vamps who stood in the middle of 15 enemies and survived. That was the build which led to the first (of many) nerfs of DKs (and some limited nerfs of vamps).

    The vamp nerfs were not so limited at all. I can't tell wether it was just DKs or DK vamps that lead to the first nerfs, because DKs really were OP. But ofc it could be that players just cried over DK vamps because the Sorcs would never even become visible.
    That being said, repeated nerfs more or less "balanced" DKs within the game mechanics pre 1.6, i.e., with dynamic ultimate generation. 1.6 came as another and really unnessecary resource management nerf, not to mention the shift in the meta making the DoTs relatively useless.
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  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Talcyndl wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    They were sorcs and the cost of the ultimate for them was 4. DKs used the other morph.

    While sorcs have had their uber periods, I'm talking about DK Vamps who stood in the middle of 15 enemies and survived. That was the build which led to the first (of many) nerfs of DKs (and some limited nerfs of vamps).

    The vamp nerfs were not so limited at all. I can't tell wether it was just DKs or DK vamps that lead to the first nerfs, because DKs really were OP. But ofc it could be that players just cried over DK vamps because the Sorcs would never even become visible.
    That being said, repeated nerfs more or less "balanced" DKs within the game mechanics pre 1.6, i.e., with dynamic ultimate generation. 1.6 came as another and really unnessecary resource management nerf, not to mention the shift in the meta making the DoTs relatively useless.

    DKs in 1.5 were in a good spot, plus minus a few quibbles. Dynamic ultimate (and thus resource mgmt) was able to compensate for lack of mobility and escape.

    Unfortunately, the reality of the CP system means that Dynamic Ultimate can probably never come back -- at least not how it was.

  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    Just to follow up on this, we will be reverting this change (likely in the next update) so Talons will no longer be blockable.

    Well done. +1
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  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    Folded like a lawn chair.
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  • _Chaos
    _Chaos
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    Just to follow up on this, we will be reverting this change (likely in the next update) so Talons will no longer be blockable.

    200.gif
    'Chaos
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Thank you for relaying all of this Gina.
    Edited by Armitas on September 23, 2015 9:27PM
    Retired.
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  • Lord_Hev
    Lord_Hev
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    Just to follow up on this, we will be reverting this change (likely in the next update) so Talons will no longer be blockable.



    Define "update." Do you mean in the next maintenance... Or in 2 months with 1.8? :/
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  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    Dredlord wrote: »
    All cc should be blockable now with the changes to block and stam regen.

    Both hard and soft cc is far to powerful in a game with no cooldowns to not have that option.

    Once your knee stops jerking you may even realize it is a good change for the game.

    No. All CCs should have different diminishing returns for roots, snares, fears, silences, stuns.
    Also, you should not be able to CC break every 6seconds but every 1-2minutes or so.
    CC breaking should not give CC immunity but a diminishing return.
    Abilities, passives and gear bonuses could still provide CC Immunity for X seconds.

    Sounds like you plagiarized those ideas from another game. That game had cooldowns on its skills.

    That would be a terrible idea for eso. Really really terrible.

    Doesn't mean that it was taken from somewhere else that it is absolutely a bad thing at all. I'm against the mentality that every new game should use their own strategies and own mentality. Sometimes there is only one way to make it work and no matter how hard u try, u'll always come to the same conclusion.

    I agree that my solution would not work without cooldowns on skills. I figured this out yesterday after posting it. We would need to add cooldowns to stuns and fears and then my solution would be ideal. But as long as Zenimax will remain against cooldowns and diminishing returns, we will have this kind of problems regarding CC spam.
    Edited by frozywozy on September 23, 2015 8:49PM
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  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    What do we think? Bull crap. You either overlooked it, which is bad, or you intended a major change like that and didn't tell us, also bad and to be honest even worse.

    What do we think? STOP NERFING DKS. The class is dead. You are stabbing a corpse.
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    Tonturri wrote: »
    As a magicka sorcerer, please give the poor DKs back their Talons. I feel so bad for them.

    But it is really fun to troll these threads and watch them cry. Funny, I don't recall any DKs coming to our defense regarding BE.

    Lel, you want me to defend BE when the fact that you could bolt out of any root made talons useless in the first place? Just get out.

    If roots prevented the use of BE would you support a revert to that nerf? I'm all for having more counters and less nerfs.

    I even argued against the scales nerf if they put an offensive purge skill in the game.

    But enough of that, lets not derail the thread.

    Revert Talons change.

    I wouldn't support that type of nerf to BE because I understand sorcs need that mobility, I do however support the the cost increase stacking. That guy I was responding too is here trolling the forums and said he wont support us because we didn't support sorcs when the cost was increased on BE, yet I'm sure each DK here was effected by a similar and even harsher change to blocking.

    But you're right, let's not derail this.

    The sorc would just block cast BE if need be...

    This nerf is well deserved and DK,s will be fine.

    The reason for all the whining is they are so used to easy mode, its a great move towards game balance.

    Lol. You have no clue. Easy mode? Please tell us how dk is easy mode? I just spit out some beer from laughing so hard.
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
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    Just to follow up on this, we will be reverting this change (likely in the next update) so Talons will no longer be blockable.

    Just be careful you don't make lava whip heal hostile targets instead of the DK by accident in the process :smile:
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  • remedios17
    remedios17
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    all that time that was spent doing this really stupid change, could have been spent on anything else, like idk, fixing 100-year-old bugs or something... SMH
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  • remedios17
    remedios17
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    Just to follow up on this, we will be reverting this change (likely in the next update) so Talons will no longer be blockable.

    Just be careful you don't make lava whip heal hostile targets instead of the DK by accident in the process :smile:

    lol yeah... 'accident'
    I'm waiting for the day when accidentaly all damage made by DKs will be reduced by 70% and all incoming damage increased by 70%. MUST.NERF.DK!!!!!
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  • Etaniel
    Etaniel
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    Just to follow up on this, we will be reverting this change (likely in the next update) so Talons will no longer be blockable.

    Soooo we'll have to wait a few months for it to be reverted??
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