ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
It's pretty obvious what we think paged on the 6 pages of this thread
Touche. Just wanted to see if you all felt the same after confirming that it was indeed intended.
Personally i feel talons being blockable is a good change. Should it become unblockable it will just be once again the all around better version of the sorcerer root.
Currently the sorc root is not blockable but the dmg is neglible and only applies after the target was rooted for the whole duration - if it´s purged or rolled out of the dmg is lost (for the shattering prison morph).
Currently talons is instantdmg either a dot or a dmg debuff and a root BUT it is blockable. Once this change gets reverted the sorc root once again becomes obsolete in any grp because talons will be the all around better spell for every situation like it was from release up to patch 1.7.
Ardent Flame.
- Fiery Grip. Due to the change to Y axis this skill is unreliable as a gap closer or a tanking mechanic. Sometimes it just will not work when it should work. When it does work in PvE it's disorienting because you don't know if you will come to the target or the target will come to you. Depending on the situation in a dungeon that can be catastrophic as you get pulled into a ground nuke. In PvP the pull/push is actually amazing so I'd like to see that stay and make the other morph a pull only for PvE.
- Inferno - It's basically a clone of Magelight with a small difference, you can either hit something with a small fire ball every 5 seconds or have 7% max magicka and 2% magicka recovery. A class skill should always be better, but I'm better off taking ML if I have high magicka and Inferno if I have low magicka. DK's are using inferno, but they are using it with mage light just for the free turret damage.
- Inferno - Sea of Flames - The chance that the measly fire ball every 5 seconds will get a killing blow is too slim, the amount of magicka it can give seems to have been written in 1.5 before the inflated stats. It's not a valuable or even a noticeable morph.
- Kindling - The nerf to secondary effect proc chance has really made this a wasted passive. 66% more burning isn't helpful when the chance to apply burning is so low.
Draconic Power
- Dragon Blood - Due the 50% healing nerf this skill is a dangerous heal. To get any heal output at all you have to fall below execute range. With the 50% heal nerf you have to be near dead to get anything out of it. It's a terrible heal right now because it's completely ineffective till you are at 1 shot range execute range and the heal won't even take you out of execute range
- Dragon Blood - Green dragon blood - With Tripots the stamina recovery on this is useless. I would like majors to provide minors if a major is already active. So if a tripots has been consumed and you pop GDB it should give you a minor stamina recovery.
Earthen Heart
- Corrosive Armor - This needs to actually penetrate armor, not just physical mitigation. There is no reason to make an ultimate so divisive between stamina and magicka builds.
- Obsidian Shard - I would not use this to heal someone, I would use healing ward if I needed to save them. It doesn't heal for much, even less at 50% healing, it does less damage than the other morph and the situation where the guy next to enemy X would need this tiny heal and the enemy CC'd are limited. I really don't know why this exists. It is incomplete.
- Molten Weapons - This is a bad execute in PvP as it requires a cast, a GCD, then a fully charged heavy attack which can just be dodge rolled, blocked, healed out of execute range, or you can get CC'd while casting it. There is too much hassle and things that can go wrong here for an execute. It completely ignores the entire purpose of an execute, which is to quickly take advantage of an opponents low health. In PvE the full heavy requirement gives you wasted seconds. If you are charging your heavy attack and have to dodge roll, then you lost the buff entirely when you release the shot. If you have 2 seconds remaining but need 3 seconds to finish a heavy attack then 2 seconds of the skill have just been wasted. All ability to self modulate it was taken in 1.7. There is no reason for this skill to be so complicated and restrictive. Both Morphs are currently a DPS loss in PvE, and people are reporting that molten armaments is only working 40% of the time.
- Battle roar - Should reference your highest stat for the replenishment. We don't have straight recovery on a DK, this is our resource management tool. Making it based on each stat individually leaves you in a magicka build not getting enough stamina, or a stamina build not getting enough magicka from it. If I'm in a magicka build I will more likely need stamina, not my primary stat. You had the right idea, just have it reference the highest stat.
Core ProblemsOur class has no built in escape mechanics, it survives on heals and defense. For heals it relies on DragonBlood which has been ruined by the global healing nerf such that to use it efficiently at all you have to be on deaths doorstep and even then one use won't even pull you out of execute range. For defense it relies on armor, shielding, and blocking. Damage shields, which we already sacrificed dps for have been cut in half while skills are still hitting for 20k. Our shields can no longer cover the damage we are taking. While armor has been improved in light armor, blocking was destroyed as a light armor option. This leaves us stuck in whatever fight we encounter with none of our core class focuses (heals and defense)to rely on but armor which can still be highly penetrated. Our flame whip has a terribly low base damage, only slightly higher than deepslash from s/b. This is fine in PvE because we can couple it with 2 of our dots for competitive dps. However in PvP Dots are trivialized by cloaks and cleanses. So I have to waste 3 precious skill slots to make up for the lack of whip dps, and even then they can effortlessly be removed or even result in a very powerful heal through cleanse. We have 4 classes to face out there, wasting 3 of those skill slots just to do competative damage is not an option. So we are stuck spamming a single skill that is not competitive with the other classes. This is why stamina DK is so popular, they can escape all of our class limitations and get the tools they need to succeed through WB, Crit Rush, and Vigor. With the exception of Stam DK's we are unable to do high damage and be survivable. NB's can pump everything into damage and rely on cloak for defense, sorcs can pump everything into magicka and rely on BE and bubbles to do dps and survive. Their Damage and Defense is parallel, or at the very least they don't interfere with each other. There is no longer any way for the DK to achieve the same feat in a magicka build. We lost that in 1.6 and 1.7.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
It's pretty obvious what we think paged on the 6 pages of this thread
Touche. Just wanted to see if you all felt the same after confirming that it was indeed intended.
Sorry Gina, but that you guys even thought this was a good idea, much less had to ask..twice..
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
x99Needles wrote: »I will be watching, with my Sorcerer on standby.
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Am I in a time warp?
So are all roots blockable now or are we playing the "lets all make random inconsistent balance changes so everyone's head explodes" game?
x99Needles wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
The fact that this change was “intended” is actually very disheartening. From the beginning of the game CCs have had two forms that separated them. CCs referred to as a Hard CC, Fear, knockdown, Stun, etc. And then you have your Soft CCs, Roots, snares, etc. This mechanic is widely accepted and used by most all games with Crowd Control. I don’t think it is actually necessary to explain Crowd Control to the Devs, and I am not trying to be condescending. I’m simply laying the ground work for why this “intended” change is a depravity against Dragonknights.
I’m not sure what the argument is for making Talons CC blockable, though I am sure if we really look we could trace it back to a forum warrior QQing NB who was simply bad at PvP could not accept it and blamed it on a skill instead of his capability. Unfortunately as is the case for most games, if you want something changed, cry about it enough and the Devs will answer to the hordes. This issue with making Talons CC blockable is that by definition Talons “Roots” you. This is an accepted Soft CC in most all games and has been for the past year in ESOTU. So making this mechanic blockable is not only unfair to Dragonknights, but also violates the core mechanics of how you have chosen to make your CCs work.
I will list some examples for my argument.
Sorcerer:
Dark Magic – Encase
The skill itself is a simple root that receives additional effects after morphing, the pre-morphed and morphed versions are NOT blockable and both after effects of the skill are received no matter what.
Dark Magic – Daedric Mines
Again, all three versions of this skill immobilize you regardless of block, and all effects are received after the duration of the skill.
Nightblade:
Assassination – Teleport Strike
The base version of this skill as well as one of its morphs, Ambush, immobilize the target for 1 second after cast. This effect is NOT blockable, blocking it reduces damage done but neither negates the root nor the empower buff from Ambush.
Siphoning – Cripple
When morphed into Crippling Grasp, this skill immobilizes and damages on impact. The damage is mitigatable through block, the root is NOT.
Dragonknight:
Earthen Heart – Petrify
Once morphed into Fossilize, the stun from this skill actually goes through block, and more to the point, the enemy is rooted afterwards regardless of block.
Bow: Arrow Spray
Morphed into Bombard, this skill is an AoE root and additional snare when the root ends, again you CANNOT block the root from this skill.
Fighters Guild: Trap Beast
All three versions of this skill immobilize your opponent for six seconds and this is not blockable.
Dragonknight:
Draconic Power – Talons.
All three versions of this skill’s innate CC are now BLOCKABLE and damage is reduced, the DoT on burning talons is still applied but weaker through block, and the minor maim from Choking Talons is still applied for 4 seconds. Also because the CC is BLOCKABLE allies will still receive the prompt to synergize “impale” but attempting to synergize fails because the root which allows the synergy has been blocked.
There is a very simple indisputable fact that up to this point ZOS has not treated Roots as a hard CC, AKA NOT blockable. So this is not a question of whether or not you should revert this change, rather if you intend to go forward treating talons and only specifically talons as a Hard CC somehow, you need to adjust the aforementioned skills as well. Because if Talons is a Hard CC, then they all are, are they not? This would be a massive core change to the game and the way it is played.
When I first noticed that my Talons weren’t appearing I thought for sure something was wrong, so I tested with an opponent and discovered that he was able to Block my talons completely, mitigating damage dealt and preventing the root and synergy completely absolving the skill’s use on my bar. There was no question in my mind this was unintended, having Talons blockable completely ruins the skill. As a Dragonknight from BETA, I can say that we have received many deserved, and many questionable nerfs over the last year.
You’ve nerfed our banners. You ruined our class gap closer adjusting its axis because of exploitable mechanics. You destroyed the purpose behind Fragmented Shield, probably the best zerg buster you ever had. You made Molten Weapons a joke and it’s our supposed class execute. You clipped our Wings because of people’s inability to watch for the effect and simply not attack us with ranged skills while we have a Reflect up. You actually made Dragon Blood useless in cyrodiil with the changes to healing in 2.1. And now, you have crushed our Talons.
I love my Dragonknight, I love the class, and I love playing it. Dragonknights got a bad rep in the beginning due to undeniable balance issues that were eventually adjusted. However since then, every issue/question of balance in cyrodiil has unfairly fallen squarely on the shoulders of Dragonknights and this latest offense is unforgivable.
Talons CC needs to reverted to UNBLOCKABLE, or you need to adjust every other Root in this game and state that Roots are now considered Hard CCs. There is no reason to target Dragonknights here, Talons is no more unfair than any other Root in the game. It’s just the one more QQ’d about, because Dragonknight.
I will be watching for ZOS to appropriately revert this change they tried to implement without so much as a patch note. Or as I said state that they now consider roots a Hard CC.
I will be watching, with my Sorcerer on standby.
Thank you.
vortexman11 wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »vortexman11 wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Lel, you want me to defend BE when the fact that you could bolt out of any root made talons useless in the first place? Just get out.
If roots prevented the use of BE would you support a revert to that nerf? I'm all for having more counters and less nerfs.
I even argued against the scales nerf if they put an offensive purge skill in the game.
But enough of that, lets not derail the thread.
Revert Talons change.
I wouldn't support that type of nerf to BE because I understand sorcs need that mobility, I do however support the the cost increase stacking. That guy I was responding too is here trolling the forums and said he wont support us because we didn't support sorcs when the cost was increased on BE, yet I'm sure each DK here was effected by a similar and even harsher change to blocking.
But you're right, let's not derail this.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
Thanks for responding.
I would LOVE to know the lack of logic behind making a GROUND AOE blockable. Can I now block AoE Lightning, Fire and Fear? How about making them REFLECT with my flappy flaps? I mean, it works with Meteor.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
It's pretty obvious what we think paged on the 6 pages of this thread
Touche. Just wanted to see if you all felt the same after confirming that it was indeed intended.
Sorry Gina, but that you guys even thought this was a good idea, much less had to ask..twice..
She's coming in here to ask and verify and do her job (she's neither a developer nor a designer, btw) ... and you abuse her? Really? With a silly meme? Sometimes, silence is the best course if you don't have anything constructive to say.
BTW ZOS make the Templar ground aoe cc (blazing spear) ignore block too because if you're gonna listen to some of the ridiculous logic in this thread what the hell right?
vortexman11 wrote: »
Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
x99Needles wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
The fact that this change was “intended” is actually very disheartening. From the beginning of the game CCs have had two forms that separated them. CCs referred to as a Hard CC, Fear, knockdown, Stun, etc. And then you have your Soft CCs, Roots, snares, etc. This mechanic is widely accepted and used by most all games with Crowd Control. I don’t think it is actually necessary to explain Crowd Control to the Devs, and I am not trying to be condescending. I’m simply laying the ground work for why this “intended” change is a depravity against Dragonknights.
I’m not sure what the argument is for making Talons CC blockable, though I am sure if we really look we could trace it back to a forum warrior QQing NB who was simply bad at PvP could not accept it and blamed it on a skill instead of his capability. Unfortunately as is the case for most games, if you want something changed, cry about it enough and the Devs will answer to the hordes. This issue with making Talons CC blockable is that by definition Talons “Roots” you. This is an accepted Soft CC in most all games and has been for the past year in ESOTU. So making this mechanic blockable is not only unfair to Dragonknights, but also violates the core mechanics of how you have chosen to make your CCs work.
I will list some examples for my argument.
Sorcerer:
Dark Magic – Encase
The skill itself is a simple root that receives additional effects after morphing, the pre-morphed and morphed versions are NOT blockable and both after effects of the skill are received no matter what.
Dark Magic – Daedric Mines
Again, all three versions of this skill immobilize you regardless of block, and all effects are received after the duration of the skill.
Nightblade:
Assassination – Teleport Strike
The base version of this skill as well as one of its morphs, Ambush, immobilize the target for 1 second after cast. This effect is NOT blockable, blocking it reduces damage done but neither negates the root nor the empower buff from Ambush.
Siphoning – Cripple
When morphed into Crippling Grasp, this skill immobilizes and damages on impact. The damage is mitigatable through block, the root is NOT.
Dragonknight:
Earthen Heart – Petrify
Once morphed into Fossilize, the stun from this skill actually goes through block, and more to the point, the enemy is rooted afterwards regardless of block.
Bow: Arrow Spray
Morphed into Bombard, this skill is an AoE root and additional snare when the root ends, again you CANNOT block the root from this skill.
Fighters Guild: Trap Beast
All three versions of this skill immobilize your opponent for six seconds and this is not blockable.
Dragonknight:
Draconic Power – Talons.
All three versions of this skill’s innate CC are now BLOCKABLE and damage is reduced, the DoT on burning talons is still applied but weaker through block, and the minor maim from Choking Talons is still applied for 4 seconds. Also because the CC is BLOCKABLE allies will still receive the prompt to synergize “impale” but attempting to synergize fails because the root which allows the synergy has been blocked.
There is a very simple indisputable fact that up to this point ZOS has not treated Roots as a hard CC, AKA NOT blockable. So this is not a question of whether or not you should revert this change, rather if you intend to go forward treating talons and only specifically talons as a Hard CC somehow, you need to adjust the aforementioned skills as well. Because if Talons is a Hard CC, then they all are, are they not? This would be a massive core change to the game and the way it is played.
When I first noticed that my Talons weren’t appearing I thought for sure something was wrong, so I tested with an opponent and discovered that he was able to Block my talons completely, mitigating damage dealt and preventing the root and synergy completely absolving the skill’s use on my bar. There was no question in my mind this was unintended, having Talons blockable completely ruins the skill. As a Dragonknight from BETA, I can say that we have received many deserved, and many questionable nerfs over the last year.
You’ve nerfed our banners. You ruined our class gap closer adjusting its axis because of exploitable mechanics. You destroyed the purpose behind Fragmented Shield, probably the best zerg buster you ever had. You made Molten Weapons a joke and it’s our supposed class execute. You clipped our Wings because of people’s inability to watch for the effect and simply not attack us with ranged skills while we have a Reflect up. You actually made Dragon Blood useless in cyrodiil with the changes to healing in 2.1. And now, you have crushed our Talons.
I love my Dragonknight, I love the class, and I love playing it. Dragonknights got a bad rep in the beginning due to undeniable balance issues that were eventually adjusted. However since then, every issue/question of balance in cyrodiil has unfairly fallen squarely on the shoulders of Dragonknights and this latest offense is unforgivable.
Talons CC needs to reverted to UNBLOCKABLE, or you need to adjust every other Root in this game and state that Roots are now considered Hard CCs. There is no reason to target Dragonknights here, Talons is no more unfair than any other Root in the game. It’s just the one more QQ’d about, because Dragonknight.
I will be watching for ZOS to appropriately revert this change they tried to implement without so much as a patch note. Or as I said state that they now consider roots a Hard CC.
I will be watching, with my Sorcerer on standby.
Thank you.
Jessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.
x99Needles wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
The fact that this change was “intended” is actually very disheartening. From the beginning of the game CCs have had two forms that separated them. CCs referred to as a Hard CC, Fear, knockdown, Stun, etc. And then you have your Soft CCs, Roots, snares, etc. This mechanic is widely accepted and used by most all games with Crowd Control. I don’t think it is actually necessary to explain Crowd Control to the Devs, and I am not trying to be condescending. I’m simply laying the ground work for why this “intended” change is a depravity against Dragonknights.
I’m not sure what the argument is for making Talons CC blockable, though I am sure if we really look we could trace it back to a forum warrior QQing NB who was simply bad at PvP could not accept it and blamed it on a skill instead of his capability. Unfortunately as is the case for most games, if you want something changed, cry about it enough and the Devs will answer to the hordes. This issue with making Talons CC blockable is that by definition Talons “Roots” you. This is an accepted Soft CC in most all games and has been for the past year in ESOTU. So making this mechanic blockable is not only unfair to Dragonknights, but also violates the core mechanics of how you have chosen to make your CCs work.
I will list some examples for my argument.
Sorcerer:
Dark Magic – Encase
The skill itself is a simple root that receives additional effects after morphing, the pre-morphed and morphed versions are NOT blockable and both after effects of the skill are received no matter what.
Dark Magic – Daedric Mines
Again, all three versions of this skill immobilize you regardless of block, and all effects are received after the duration of the skill.
Nightblade:
Assassination – Teleport Strike
The base version of this skill as well as one of its morphs, Ambush, immobilize the target for 1 second after cast. This effect is NOT blockable, blocking it reduces damage done but neither negates the root nor the empower buff from Ambush.
Siphoning – Cripple
When morphed into Crippling Grasp, this skill immobilizes and damages on impact. The damage is mitigatable through block, the root is NOT.
Dragonknight:
Earthen Heart – Petrify
Once morphed into Fossilize, the stun from this skill actually goes through block, and more to the point, the enemy is rooted afterwards regardless of block.
Bow: Arrow Spray
Morphed into Bombard, this skill is an AoE root and additional snare when the root ends, again you CANNOT block the root from this skill.
Fighters Guild: Trap Beast
All three versions of this skill immobilize your opponent for six seconds and this is not blockable.
Dragonknight:
Draconic Power – Talons.
All three versions of this skill’s innate CC are now BLOCKABLE and damage is reduced, the DoT on burning talons is still applied but weaker through block, and the minor maim from Choking Talons is still applied for 4 seconds. Also because the CC is BLOCKABLE allies will still receive the prompt to synergize “impale” but attempting to synergize fails because the root which allows the synergy has been blocked.
There is a very simple indisputable fact that up to this point ZOS has not treated Roots as a hard CC, AKA NOT blockable. So this is not a question of whether or not you should revert this change, rather if you intend to go forward treating talons and only specifically talons as a Hard CC somehow, you need to adjust the aforementioned skills as well. Because if Talons is a Hard CC, then they all are, are they not? This would be a massive core change to the game and the way it is played.
When I first noticed that my Talons weren’t appearing I thought for sure something was wrong, so I tested with an opponent and discovered that he was able to Block my talons completely, mitigating damage dealt and preventing the root and synergy completely absolving the skill’s use on my bar. There was no question in my mind this was unintended, having Talons blockable completely ruins the skill. As a Dragonknight from BETA, I can say that we have received many deserved, and many questionable nerfs over the last year.
You’ve nerfed our banners. You ruined our class gap closer adjusting its axis because of exploitable mechanics. You destroyed the purpose behind Fragmented Shield, probably the best zerg buster you ever had. You made Molten Weapons a joke and it’s our supposed class execute. You clipped our Wings because of people’s inability to watch for the effect and simply not attack us with ranged skills while we have a Reflect up. You actually made Dragon Blood useless in cyrodiil with the changes to healing in 2.1. And now, you have crushed our Talons.
I love my Dragonknight, I love the class, and I love playing it. Dragonknights got a bad rep in the beginning due to undeniable balance issues that were eventually adjusted. However since then, every issue/question of balance in cyrodiil has unfairly fallen squarely on the shoulders of Dragonknights and this latest offense is unforgivable.
Talons CC needs to reverted to UNBLOCKABLE, or you need to adjust every other Root in this game and state that Roots are now considered Hard CCs. There is no reason to target Dragonknights here, Talons is no more unfair than any other Root in the game. It’s just the one more QQ’d about, because Dragonknight.
I will be watching for ZOS to appropriately revert this change they tried to implement without so much as a patch note. Or as I said state that they now consider roots a Hard CC.
I will be watching, with my Sorcerer on standby.
Thank you.
This is the most ridiculous non-nonsensical nerf in eso. for the love of god unnerf it.
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@Zos_Eric_Wrobel
Let us see what tomorrows patch says. Anyone like to take a guess?
I'll start,
"Portrait in Skywatch bank is now no longer at a slant"
Glad someone mentioned frag shield because I completely forgot it even existed. It's a terrible shield and terrible damage, thats not best of both worlds, it's worst of both worlds.
The skill was essentially squashed in a hurry to fix it with little time spent actually making sure it remained a valuable morph in the aftermath. They basically smashed it like a bug and walked away from it. This basically how I feel about several of our nerfs, if feels more like a smash job than a balance job.
thelordoffelines wrote: »Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or