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TALONS CC IS BLOCKABLE! Thanks ZOS!

  • Tomato
    Tomato
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    Fix green dragons blood and make dots do more damage please.
  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    W
    Dredlord wrote: »
    BTW ZOS make the Templar ground aoe cc (blazing spear) ignore block too because if you're gonna listen to some of the ridiculous logic in this thread what the hell right?

    Luminous Shards goes through block, you got the wrong morph.

    WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?

    This thread is about a root, not a stun. No root in game is blockable, besides talons. Only stun that ignores block in the game is fear. The other CCs that go through block break on damage making them more like disorients. I'm sorry you play a templar, the other red headed step child, and that a magicka DK killed you because that is the only reason for thinking talons should be blockable. If you want to make another thread about bugged templar skills or things you want for your class go for it, but for you to come here and argue the root on talons should remain blockable while no other roots in game are... you are either a troll, don't care about balance, don't know what balance is, or a combination of the three.

    Lol there is always some tool who goes strait to " sorry X class killed you" ...clever argument.

    Thing is you got me all wrong, I'm not here to argue tallons should be the only AOE root in the game that is blockable, I here to argue they ALL should be.

    You are a perfect example of the terrible logic going on here, thank you for contributing.
  • vortexman11
    vortexman11
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    Dredlord wrote: »
    W
    Dredlord wrote: »
    BTW ZOS make the Templar ground aoe cc (blazing spear) ignore block too because if you're gonna listen to some of the ridiculous logic in this thread what the hell right?

    Luminous Shards goes through block, you got the wrong morph.

    WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?

    You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or

    Or is right...additionally because I specifically named which one? But you cut that outa the quote so you wouldn't look stupid?

    I specifically said go change your morph...you've got an AoE that does DoT damage or an AoE that goes through block and only does damage on impact.
    Also, this has nothing to do with talons, as talons is a root not the stuns that go through block (Fear/Luminous Shards/Rune Prison/Petrify)
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  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    Dredlord wrote: »
    W
    Dredlord wrote: »
    BTW ZOS make the Templar ground aoe cc (blazing spear) ignore block too because if you're gonna listen to some of the ridiculous logic in this thread what the hell right?

    Luminous Shards goes through block, you got the wrong morph.

    WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?

    You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or

    Or is right...additionally because I specifically named which one? But you cut that outa the quote so you wouldn't look stupid?

    I specifically said go change your morph...you've got an AoE that does DoT damage or an AoE that goes through block and only does damage on impact.
    Also, this has nothing to do with talons, as talons is a root not the stuns that go through block (Fear/Luminous Shards/Rune Prison/Petrify)

    Going back to my op I note some of the terrible logic flying around this thread ie. Other roots aren't blockable so tallons shouldn't be either.

    Then I made a silly proposal that blazing spear should not be blockable because other cc is not blockable.

    I'm sorry I confused you.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Alex on September 23, 2015 7:45PM
  • Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO
    Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    Lol there is always some tool who goes strait to " sorry X class killed you" ...clever argument.

    Thing is you got me all wrong, I'm not here to argue tallons should be the only AOE root in the game that is blockable, I here to argue they ALL should be.

    You are a perfect example of the terrible logic going on here, thank you for contributing.

    You haven't argued anything like that. All you've done is come into this thread and tell everyone that DK's are QQing because "they're used to easy mode" and tell everyone that Talon's are fine and point out everyone's "terrible logic". You've not argued why you think it's fine or why all roots should be blockable if this change does not revert itself. All you've done is trash Talon's and those who want the change reverted, nothing else.
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  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
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    All cc should be blockable now with the changes to block and stam regen.

    Both hard and soft cc is far to powerful in a game with no cooldowns to not have that option.

    Once your knee stops jerking you may even realize it is a good change for the game.
  • vortexman11
    vortexman11
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    Dredlord wrote: »
    Dredlord wrote: »
    W
    Dredlord wrote: »
    BTW ZOS make the Templar ground aoe cc (blazing spear) ignore block too because if you're gonna listen to some of the ridiculous logic in this thread what the hell right?

    Luminous Shards goes through block, you got the wrong morph.

    WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?

    You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or

    Or is right...additionally because I specifically named which one? But you cut that outa the quote so you wouldn't look stupid?

    I specifically said go change your morph...you've got an AoE that does DoT damage or an AoE that goes through block and only does damage on impact.
    Also, this has nothing to do with talons, as talons is a root not the stuns that go through block (Fear/Luminous Shards/Rune Prison/Petrify)

    Going back to my op I note some of the terrible logic flying around this thread ie. Other roots aren't blockable so tallons shouldn't be either.

    Then I made a silly proposal that blazing spear should not be blockable because other cc is not blockable.

    I'm sorry I confused you.

    You didn't confuse me...you're just not reading my response properly when I was simply stating that theres a choice with that skill where one morph is blockable the other isn't.....If your argument is to have both unblockable fine, but I was just mentioning that theres a choice

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
    Edited by ZOS_Alex on September 23, 2015 7:46PM
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  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
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    x99Needles wrote: »
    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    The fact that this change was “intended” is actually very disheartening. From the beginning of the game CCs have had two forms that separated them. CCs referred to as a Hard CC, Fear, knockdown, Stun, etc. And then you have your Soft CCs, Roots, snares, etc. This mechanic is widely accepted and used by most all games with Crowd Control. I don’t think it is actually necessary to explain Crowd Control to the Devs, and I am not trying to be condescending. I’m simply laying the ground work for why this “intended” change is a depravity against Dragonknights.

    I’m not sure what the argument is for making Talons CC blockable, though I am sure if we really look we could trace it back to a forum warrior QQing NB who was simply bad at PvP could not accept it and blamed it on a skill instead of his capability. Unfortunately as is the case for most games, if you want something changed, cry about it enough and the Devs will answer to the hordes. This issue with making Talons CC blockable is that by definition Talons “Roots” you. This is an accepted Soft CC in most all games and has been for the past year in ESOTU. So making this mechanic blockable is not only unfair to Dragonknights, but also violates the core mechanics of how you have chosen to make your CCs work.

    I will list some examples for my argument.
    Sorcerer:
    Dark Magic – Encase
    The skill itself is a simple root that receives additional effects after morphing, the pre-morphed and morphed versions are NOT blockable and both after effects of the skill are received no matter what.

    Dark Magic – Daedric Mines
    Again, all three versions of this skill immobilize you regardless of block, and all effects are received after the duration of the skill.

    Nightblade:
    Assassination – Teleport Strike
    The base version of this skill as well as one of its morphs, Ambush, immobilize the target for 1 second after cast. This effect is NOT blockable, blocking it reduces damage done but neither negates the root nor the empower buff from Ambush.

    Siphoning – Cripple
    When morphed into Crippling Grasp, this skill immobilizes and damages on impact. The damage is mitigatable through block, the root is NOT.

    Dragonknight:
    Earthen Heart – Petrify
    Once morphed into Fossilize, the stun from this skill actually goes through block, and more to the point, the enemy is rooted afterwards regardless of block.

    Bow: Arrow Spray
    Morphed into Bombard, this skill is an AoE root and additional snare when the root ends, again you CANNOT block the root from this skill.

    Fighters Guild: Trap Beast
    All three versions of this skill immobilize your opponent for six seconds and this is not blockable.

    Dragonknight:
    Draconic Power – Talons.
    All three versions of this skill’s innate CC are now BLOCKABLE and damage is reduced, the DoT on burning talons is still applied but weaker through block, and the minor maim from Choking Talons is still applied for 4 seconds. Also because the CC is BLOCKABLE allies will still receive the prompt to synergize “impale” but attempting to synergize fails because the root which allows the synergy has been blocked.

    There is a very simple indisputable fact that up to this point ZOS has not treated Roots as a hard CC, AKA NOT blockable. So this is not a question of whether or not you should revert this change, rather if you intend to go forward treating talons and only specifically talons as a Hard CC somehow, you need to adjust the aforementioned skills as well. Because if Talons is a Hard CC, then they all are, are they not? This would be a massive core change to the game and the way it is played.

    When I first noticed that my Talons weren’t appearing I thought for sure something was wrong, so I tested with an opponent and discovered that he was able to Block my talons completely, mitigating damage dealt and preventing the root and synergy completely absolving the skill’s use on my bar. There was no question in my mind this was unintended, having Talons blockable completely ruins the skill. As a Dragonknight from BETA, I can say that we have received many deserved, and many questionable nerfs over the last year.

    You’ve nerfed our banners. You ruined our class gap closer adjusting its axis because of exploitable mechanics. You destroyed the purpose behind Fragmented Shield, probably the best zerg buster you ever had. You made Molten Weapons a joke and it’s our supposed class execute. You clipped our Wings because of people’s inability to watch for the effect and simply not attack us with ranged skills while we have a Reflect up. You actually made Dragon Blood useless in cyrodiil with the changes to healing in 2.1. And now, you have crushed our Talons.

    I love my Dragonknight, I love the class, and I love playing it. Dragonknights got a bad rep in the beginning due to undeniable balance issues that were eventually adjusted. However since then, every issue/question of balance in cyrodiil has unfairly fallen squarely on the shoulders of Dragonknights and this latest offense is unforgivable.

    Talons CC needs to reverted to UNBLOCKABLE, or you need to adjust every other Root in this game and state that Roots are now considered Hard CCs. There is no reason to target Dragonknights here, Talons is no more unfair than any other Root in the game. It’s just the one more QQ’d about, because Dragonknight.

    I will be watching for ZOS to appropriately revert this change they tried to implement without so much as a patch note. Or as I said state that they now consider roots a Hard CC.

    I will be watching, with my Sorcerer on standby.

    Thank you.

    Wrong about crippling grasp. The root is blockable and reflectable.
    EU | PC
  • LameoveR
    LameoveR
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    This thread has so much pages cause of so much text wall quotes.
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    Although this spell is annoying, it does come with a fairly hefty magicka cost for stam builds, which seem to make up a pretty big population of DKs from what I've seen. I'd vote to revert it
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Ehm, why? Talons should NOT be blockable, ffs block is already ....blocking everything..

    PC EU
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  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Sorc agrees. Talons should NOT be blockable. Enough with the DK nerfs already
    EU | PC | AD
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    Dredlord wrote: »
    All cc should be blockable now with the changes to block and stam regen.

    Both hard and soft cc is far to powerful in a game with no cooldowns to not have that option.

    Once your knee stops jerking you may even realize it is a good change for the game.

    No. All CCs should have different diminishing returns for roots, snares, fears, silences, stuns.
    Also, you should not be able to CC break every 6seconds but every 1-2minutes or so.
    CC breaking should not give CC immunity but a diminishing return.
    Abilities, passives and gear bonuses could still provide CC Immunity for X seconds.
    Edited by frozywozy on September 22, 2015 2:47PM
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  • Lesspa
    Lesspa
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    omg zos has literally no idea what theyre doing the comm mod is here asking if we think its a good idea how about you guys play your game and test it with players and respond to their feedback before you make massive stupid changes like IC was..... cheesus christ this is bad. REFINE NOT REVISE!!!!!!!! OMG
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    This thread and the replies from @ZOS_GinaBruno are rather worrying overall.
  • WebBull
    WebBull
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    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    This thread and the replies from @ZOS_GinaBruno are rather worrying overall.

    Agree. kind of seems odd.

    Hey we stealth nerfed you. What do you think about that DK's?

    If they were concerned, why didn't they check with us upfront like they did with Shadow Cloak...
    Edited by WebBull on September 22, 2015 7:13PM
  • krim
    krim
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    Just like they did with 1.5 to 1.6.. Where do they come up with this stuff and who do they get their info from to make these changes.
  • Cody
    Cody
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    :/
  • MaximillianDiE
    MaximillianDiE
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    Revert it - without a doubt. Also while we're at it look at some of the lists about DK others have posted. My own personal peeves are lack of a (usable) execute, and lack of a class gap closer that works. I switched to DK in late 1.6 when my sorc felt too OP and love the class but am really struggling to do anything solo now with my magicka DK.
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  • OrdainedFaun
    OrdainedFaun
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    I suppose next they will stealth nerf flame lash, after all it is too cool. Or maybe adjust our DoT damage down further? But look on the bright side, the load screens are all now long enough for ZOS to begin inserting crown store advertisements for us to read while we wait!
  • Psilent
    Psilent
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    I suppose next they will stealth nerf flame lash, after all it is too cool. Or maybe adjust our DoT damage down further? But look on the bright side, the load screens are all now long enough for ZOS to begin inserting crown store advertisements for us to read while we wait!

    I actually asked the other day why the stun on player with Flame Lash was taken away. Was told "It was to OP back in the day.." I literally face rolled my keyboard. Flame Lash stun is OP, but fear going through block isn't?

  • Lord_Hev
    Lord_Hev
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    Psilent wrote: »
    I suppose next they will stealth nerf flame lash, after all it is too cool. Or maybe adjust our DoT damage down further? But look on the bright side, the load screens are all now long enough for ZOS to begin inserting crown store advertisements for us to read while we wait!

    I actually asked the other day why the stun on player with Flame Lash was taken away. Was told "It was to OP back in the day.." I literally face rolled my keyboard. Flame Lash stun is OP, but fear going through block isn't?




    Talons OP, but lets not say anything about Fear giving 5 second CC + lowering dmg and severe snare, through block!
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  • i3ig_Gun
    i3ig_Gun
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    I agree, a player or NPC must dodge roll out of them to break the CC.

    ALSO I was running with a resource cap group in Cyrodiil and ran in on the group of NPC's around the flag of a mine, and lumbermill, when i cast my talons, my character had the talons graphic placed under MY feet, and I started moving around at what looked like 300+% speed. It was funny, but crazy... and I was able to keep applying it, over and over again in all the other resources we were capping.
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  • Prabooo
    Prabooo
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    Armitas wrote: »
    (...) The mood of the magicka DK right now is pretty bad.

    Stam Dk's are not any better. at least all the skills for the class are magicka based, with very few morph exceptions.

  • willymchilybily
    willymchilybily
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    i think any DK responding to Gina will say their preference is to not have talons block-able of course. I don't find DK a problem in PVE i think its kind of great with what it can do.

    its just all the PVP changes culminate in magicka DK struggling to heal (without taking up lots of bar slots) and unable to escape (or at least i cant, wtf elusive mist), unable to block for long (to be expected), and unable to burst down a target

    The last thing we needed was a way to avoid our talons for 200 stamina (heavy armor, 1H+shield blocking with passives) instead of a dodge roll for +>2000 stamina, especially when its not a cheap ability.
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  • Wollust
    Wollust
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    I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.
    Susano'o

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  • willymchilybily
    willymchilybily
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    Wollust wrote: »
    I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.

    I expect they thought (like i did initially) some changes might actually benefit us, natural class sustain in a patch where sustain is important because less damage/ more cost to heal.

    As such this talons change wouldn't look so bad if DK's became a master race. Unfortunately turns out longer TTK didnt lead to the expected out come. Or at least not my expected outcome, (who knows what ZOS aim for when they make a decision) I guess though as they are already talking about reversing this decision in this thread, what they aimed for wasnt what they achieved for the magicka DK
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  • AAN2
    AAN2
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    The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?

    I for one would like it to go back to unnerfdom. Prior to the patch my main char was a V5 DK and talons was a huge part of my PVP style. Lock 'em in place and drop my flag. Do enough damage to keep them focused on me while my group mates took them apart.

    Now though, I play as a Nightblade because DK was just too weak compared to NB and Sorc. I payed the gold to respec my DK character as a master crafter instead.

    A shame too, I had fun playing as DK. I got dropped as many times as I got kills, so it didn't feel unbalanced. You'd think that devs would've learned from other games the damage that nerfs can do. Well, hopefully it doesn't get to the point where entire PVP servers are made up of nightblades and sorcs. lol
    Say no to drugs.
    And nerfs. Nerfs are bad mm'kay.

  • Sarousse
    Sarousse
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    If you remove this change, then please put a root immunity like for all CCs.
  • Sanct16
    Sanct16
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    Wollust wrote: »
    I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.

    I expect they thought (like i did initially) some changes might actually benefit us, natural class sustain in a patch where sustain is important because less damage/ more cost to heal.

    As such this talons change wouldn't look so bad if DK's became a master race. Unfortunately turns out longer TTK didnt lead to the expected out come. Or at least not my expected outcome, (who knows what ZOS aim for when they make a decision) I guess though as they are already talking about reversing this decision in this thread, what they aimed for wasnt what they achieved for the magicka DK
    Dk has bad resourcemanagement, no burst, no escape, no execute.... They even nerfed Battle Roar to ***... Dk didnt get any buff, why would they suddenly be good?

    1.5 DK had good resourcemanagment in 1vX fights because of the ultimate gain, ever after 1.6 Dk always struggles with resources.
    - EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
    AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
    EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
    AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
    AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
    EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
    AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
    AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
    EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
    EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
    DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
    DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB

    >320.000.000 AP
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