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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Feedback: Shieldbreaker 5p-set - it´s OP and should not go live.
-
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.0 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
Healers don't need to spam healing ward to get you killed. One ward when they quickly spot an allies health dropping and you could be as good as dead, not time to react, no time to spot the person with the set to stun them, no time to delay until the ward goes away. Templars can burst heal well but for other classes this shield seems to be a popular choice, but now that it could just end up getting someone killed.
You seem to think i'm going on about shield stacking and shield spamming and i'm not, there are many ways you can easily get a shield and with it someone with this set can bypass all your defenses to deal raw damage very quickly and unless you are very attentive or have an addon for it you'll likely take a beating once someone with this set gets an eye on your shields, it'll only require the set to become common. And with how many people are lining up to get their revenge against the class they hate so much I doubt there will be a shortage of them.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »ZOS, now that the Shieldbreaker set makes shielded Sorcs useless,
you may also give us a Cloakbreaker set to make cloaked NBs useless.
Cloak has been broken for quite a long time. Also, since most NBs seem prefer to go the Stam route (even though a Magicka NB is very powerful), you're talking 2-3 cloaks in a row which last mere seconds.
But you can go on your Sorc and use your Cloakbreaker.. it's called Caltrops, Lightning Form, Bolt Escape, and Lightning Splash. I'm not sure how you play your Sorc but a cloaked NB has never been a problem for mine... then again I don't rely on shield-stacking since it's a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
I am so tired of the claim stamina NBs could Cloak only 2-3 times in a row... just not true...
The "claim"? It's a fact. How much Magicka do you think NBs have to keep cloaking? We don't have a stamina morph for Cloak (which would be GREAT to have). You need to be a Magicka NB to keep applying cloak, I just hopped on my Stam-NB and tested it. I have nothing put into Magicka, 3 times in a row with a full bar of Magicka at VR16. Stop trying to dismiss something that is a fact and not an opinion. Stam-NBs are at their best for PVE AND PVP when having nothing but enough Health for Trials/DSA/Newer Vet Dungeons and the rest Stamina.
All Stam NBs have for Magicka (which Cloak and all of its morphs REQUIRE) is default. You may find some hybrids (which it sounds like even some NBs on these forums don't realize the difference between a real stam NB and a hybrid) out there but they are most likely only PVPing and not doing everything this game has to offer. ZOS can't cater to every single scenario and please everyone, so what they are doing is making counters to things and balancing this game out as they have been over time and will always be doing for as long as this game is being worked on. There are countless counters to Cloak, how many to Streak? I spam Streak all day using VR14 Seducer and VR12 Warlock.. 5pcs of each plus a ton of CP even WITH all of the changes to it (by all day I mean I could let loose a bunch of abilities on an enemy then hit a potion and streak all the way to a nice safe spot & then sneak or use an invis potion ---- which might I add is BETTER and more reliable than Cloak given it's duration and the fact you can have a speed boost in the same potion). With this update I didn't need to change any of my characters' gear except for my Stam Nightblade's.
Where's my Bolt Escape potion for my Nightblade? Ah that's right... the only class that has one of its most important abilities as invisibility, has a potion that lasts longer and works every single time I hit it.
Atronach + blue drinks + some cp in arcanist + refreshing shadows
Idk, with 2.1 it may be better to go for Serpent now. Either way, this gives a lot of magicka regen.
You must not have played a NB. No one wants to waste precious CP if using stam, on Magicka just to spam a very unreliable ability. Sure it's been fixed after how long? Most who have a NB still don't trust it and it still breaks when it's not supposed to from time to time. NBs have to keep invisibility potions on them, but guess what? So can all of the other classes.
@Soulac halp
DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »ZOS, now that the Shieldbreaker set makes shielded Sorcs useless,
you may also give us a Cloakbreaker set to make cloaked NBs useless.
Cloak has been broken for quite a long time. Also, since most NBs seem prefer to go the Stam route (even though a Magicka NB is very powerful), you're talking 2-3 cloaks in a row which last mere seconds.
But you can go on your Sorc and use your Cloakbreaker.. it's called Caltrops, Lightning Form, Bolt Escape, and Lightning Splash. I'm not sure how you play your Sorc but a cloaked NB has never been a problem for mine... then again I don't rely on shield-stacking since it's a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
I am so tired of the claim stamina NBs could Cloak only 2-3 times in a row... just not true...
The "claim"? It's a fact. How much Magicka do you think NBs have to keep cloaking? We don't have a stamina morph for Cloak (which would be GREAT to have). You need to be a Magicka NB to keep applying cloak, I just hopped on my Stam-NB and tested it. I have nothing put into Magicka, 3 times in a row with a full bar of Magicka at VR16. Stop trying to dismiss something that is a fact and not an opinion. Stam-NBs are at their best for PVE AND PVP when having nothing but enough Health for Trials/DSA/Newer Vet Dungeons and the rest Stamina.
All Stam NBs have for Magicka (which Cloak and all of its morphs REQUIRE) is default. You may find some hybrids (which it sounds like even some NBs on these forums don't realize the difference between a real stam NB and a hybrid) out there but they are most likely only PVPing and not doing everything this game has to offer. ZOS can't cater to every single scenario and please everyone, so what they are doing is making counters to things and balancing this game out as they have been over time and will always be doing for as long as this game is being worked on. There are countless counters to Cloak, how many to Streak? I spam Streak all day using VR14 Seducer and VR12 Warlock.. 5pcs of each plus a ton of CP even WITH all of the changes to it (by all day I mean I could let loose a bunch of abilities on an enemy then hit a potion and streak all the way to a nice safe spot & then sneak or use an invis potion ---- which might I add is BETTER and more reliable than Cloak given it's duration and the fact you can have a speed boost in the same potion). With this update I didn't need to change any of my characters' gear except for my Stam Nightblade's.
Where's my Bolt Escape potion for my Nightblade? Ah that's right... the only class that has one of its most important abilities as invisibility, has a potion that lasts longer and works every single time I hit it.
Atronach + blue drinks + some cp in arcanist + refreshing shadows
Idk, with 2.1 it may be better to go for Serpent now. Either way, this gives a lot of magicka regen.
You must not have played a NB. No one wants to waste precious CP if using stam, on Magicka just to spam a very unreliable ability. Sure it's been fixed after how long? Most who have a NB still don't trust it and it still breaks when it's not supposed to from time to time. NBs have to keep invisibility potions on them, but guess what? So can all of the other classes.
@Soulac halp
*cloaks away*R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »ZOS, now that the Shieldbreaker set makes shielded Sorcs useless,
you may also give us a Cloakbreaker set to make cloaked NBs useless.
Cloak has been broken for quite a long time. Also, since most NBs seem prefer to go the Stam route (even though a Magicka NB is very powerful), you're talking 2-3 cloaks in a row which last mere seconds.
But you can go on your Sorc and use your Cloakbreaker.. it's called Caltrops, Lightning Form, Bolt Escape, and Lightning Splash. I'm not sure how you play your Sorc but a cloaked NB has never been a problem for mine... then again I don't rely on shield-stacking since it's a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
I am so tired of the claim stamina NBs could Cloak only 2-3 times in a row... just not true...
The "claim"? It's a fact. How much Magicka do you think NBs have to keep cloaking? We don't have a stamina morph for Cloak (which would be GREAT to have). You need to be a Magicka NB to keep applying cloak, I just hopped on my Stam-NB and tested it. I have nothing put into Magicka, 3 times in a row with a full bar of Magicka at VR16. Stop trying to dismiss something that is a fact and not an opinion. Stam-NBs are at their best for PVE AND PVP when having nothing but enough Health for Trials/DSA/Newer Vet Dungeons and the rest Stamina.
All Stam NBs have for Magicka (which Cloak and all of its morphs REQUIRE) is default. You may find some hybrids (which it sounds like even some NBs on these forums don't realize the difference between a real stam NB and a hybrid) out there but they are most likely only PVPing and not doing everything this game has to offer. ZOS can't cater to every single scenario and please everyone, so what they are doing is making counters to things and balancing this game out as they have been over time and will always be doing for as long as this game is being worked on. There are countless counters to Cloak, how many to Streak? I spam Streak all day using VR14 Seducer and VR12 Warlock.. 5pcs of each plus a ton of CP even WITH all of the changes to it (by all day I mean I could let loose a bunch of abilities on an enemy then hit a potion and streak all the way to a nice safe spot & then sneak or use an invis potion ---- which might I add is BETTER and more reliable than Cloak given it's duration and the fact you can have a speed boost in the same potion). With this update I didn't need to change any of my characters' gear except for my Stam Nightblade's.
Where's my Bolt Escape potion for my Nightblade? Ah that's right... the only class that has one of its most important abilities as invisibility, has a potion that lasts longer and works every single time I hit it.
Atronach + blue drinks + some cp in arcanist + refreshing shadows
Idk, with 2.1 it may be better to go for Serpent now. Either way, this gives a lot of magicka regen.
You must not have played a NB. No one wants to waste precious CP if using stam, on Magicka just to spam a very unreliable ability. Sure it's been fixed after how long? Most who have a NB still don't trust it and it still breaks when it's not supposed to from time to time. NBs have to keep invisibility potions on them, but guess what? So can all of the other classes.
@Soulac halp
*cloaks away*
*marked* whats your next move mate?0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »ZOS, now that the Shieldbreaker set makes shielded Sorcs useless,
you may also give us a Cloakbreaker set to make cloaked NBs useless.
Cloak has been broken for quite a long time. Also, since most NBs seem prefer to go the Stam route (even though a Magicka NB is very powerful), you're talking 2-3 cloaks in a row which last mere seconds.
But you can go on your Sorc and use your Cloakbreaker.. it's called Caltrops, Lightning Form, Bolt Escape, and Lightning Splash. I'm not sure how you play your Sorc but a cloaked NB has never been a problem for mine... then again I don't rely on shield-stacking since it's a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
I am so tired of the claim stamina NBs could Cloak only 2-3 times in a row... just not true...
The "claim"? It's a fact. How much Magicka do you think NBs have to keep cloaking? We don't have a stamina morph for Cloak (which would be GREAT to have). You need to be a Magicka NB to keep applying cloak, I just hopped on my Stam-NB and tested it. I have nothing put into Magicka, 3 times in a row with a full bar of Magicka at VR16. Stop trying to dismiss something that is a fact and not an opinion. Stam-NBs are at their best for PVE AND PVP when having nothing but enough Health for Trials/DSA/Newer Vet Dungeons and the rest Stamina.
All Stam NBs have for Magicka (which Cloak and all of its morphs REQUIRE) is default. You may find some hybrids (which it sounds like even some NBs on these forums don't realize the difference between a real stam NB and a hybrid) out there but they are most likely only PVPing and not doing everything this game has to offer. ZOS can't cater to every single scenario and please everyone, so what they are doing is making counters to things and balancing this game out as they have been over time and will always be doing for as long as this game is being worked on. There are countless counters to Cloak, how many to Streak? I spam Streak all day using VR14 Seducer and VR12 Warlock.. 5pcs of each plus a ton of CP even WITH all of the changes to it (by all day I mean I could let loose a bunch of abilities on an enemy then hit a potion and streak all the way to a nice safe spot & then sneak or use an invis potion ---- which might I add is BETTER and more reliable than Cloak given it's duration and the fact you can have a speed boost in the same potion). With this update I didn't need to change any of my characters' gear except for my Stam Nightblade's.
Where's my Bolt Escape potion for my Nightblade? Ah that's right... the only class that has one of its most important abilities as invisibility, has a potion that lasts longer and works every single time I hit it.
Atronach + blue drinks + some cp in arcanist + refreshing shadows
Idk, with 2.1 it may be better to go for Serpent now. Either way, this gives a lot of magicka regen.
You must not have played a NB. No one wants to waste precious CP if using stam, on Magicka just to spam a very unreliable ability. Sure it's been fixed after how long? Most who have a NB still don't trust it and it still breaks when it's not supposed to from time to time. NBs have to keep invisibility potions on them, but guess what? So can all of the other classes.
@Soulac halp
*cloaks away*
*marked* whats your next move mate?
*shadow image*R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lazy cat xDDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
Healers don't need to spam healing ward to get you killed. One ward when they quickly spot an allies health dropping and you could be as good as dead, not time to react, no time to spot the person with the set to stun them, no time to delay until the ward goes away. Templars can burst heal well but for other classes this shield seems to be a popular choice, but now that it could just end up getting someone killed.
You seem to think i'm going on about shield stacking and shield spamming and i'm not, there are many ways you can easily get a shield and with it someone with this set can bypass all your defenses to deal raw damage very quickly and unless you are very attentive or have an addon for it you'll likely take a beating once someone with this set gets an eye on your shields, it'll only require the set to become common. And with how many people are lining up to get their revenge against the class they hate so much I doubt there will be a shortage of them.
He is simply stating there is a counter now to 1v x God mode sorcs. In group, there is no difference as you have dedicated healers. Sorcs are angry because it is extremely difficult to 1vx now. Like the rest of us now. 1.6 was your time in the sun.
Start grouping now. You are no longer tanky cannons without a counter. Happens to everyone when a god mode build is found1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.PC | EU3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
Healers don't need to spam healing ward to get you killed. One ward when they quickly spot an allies health dropping and you could be as good as dead, not time to react, no time to spot the person with the set to stun them, no time to delay until the ward goes away. Templars can burst heal well but for other classes this shield seems to be a popular choice, but now that it could just end up getting someone killed.
You seem to think i'm going on about shield stacking and shield spamming and i'm not, there are many ways you can easily get a shield and with it someone with this set can bypass all your defenses to deal raw damage very quickly and unless you are very attentive or have an addon for it you'll likely take a beating once someone with this set gets an eye on your shields, it'll only require the set to become common. And with how many people are lining up to get their revenge against the class they hate so much I doubt there will be a shortage of them.
He is simply stating there is a counter now to 1v x God mode sorcs. In group, there is no difference as you have dedicated healers. Sorcs are angry because it is extremely difficult to 1vx now. Like the rest of us now. 1.6 was your time in the sun.
Start grouping now. You are no longer tanky cannons without a counter. Happens to everyone when a god mode build is found
I´ve always played in a grp since the launch of 1.6. I was playing heal/support. This set (along with the hefty but deserved nerf to healing ward) makes it impossible to do so now.
It does not impair my ability to slaughter a couple of bads though (24k hp 38 magica 15k armor) - what really is making the noobs last longer is the global dmg reduction which now again favors classes with high sustain dps and pressure builds while sorcs are designed around burst (which is still easy to counter). If your burst rotation is not enough to kill your target the burst class suffers - therefor sorcs are now forced to run really high dmg builds imho.FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
So imagine a sorc with a build with 18k armor 25khp 36k magica (what i´d be running if i could get away without resto staff). I´d say this is pretty well rounded for a magica class nowadays. I know DKs and Templars running around with less HP.
Say the sorc uses hardened ward as their class defense skill. How do you suggest they defend themselves against someone using shieldbreaker if they happen to not use a restoration staff and therefor only have 1 shield against stamina dmg available?
I´ll help you: They can´t. Every sorcerer is now forced to slot a frekkin restoration staff use healing ward (lol the counter shieldbreaker is to stack more shields to give you breathing room) + hardened ward and one other healing ability. It punishes the sorc class that is designed to rely on shields because it does not get another defensive skill.
It also disables you to heal small grps with healing ward as a burstheal and makes harness magica a totally undesireable ability on anyones quickbar.
But yeah. Those shieldstackers get punished. Problem is while shieldstackers might get a slap on their fingers builds who did not play with healing ward in the first place get run over by a bus. It pidgeonholes the whole classes magica builds even more into the meta deeply despised by the other players - which is kinda ironic.
The best part about the whole thing is - i´m still wrecking the morons (now running around with shieldbreaker because they thought it would miraculously make them better players) i´ve been destroying in 1.6 and 1.5 and the patches before. All the set did was rendering me unable to play support in my grp - what i´ve always really liked.Edited by Derra on September 9, 2015 7:49AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So imagine a sorc with a build with 18k armor 25khp 36k magica (what i´d be running if i could get away without resto staff). I´d say this is pretty well rounded for a magica class nowadays. I know DKs and Templars running around with less HP.
Say the sorc uses hardened ward as their class defense skill. How do you suggest they defend themselves against someone using shieldbreaker if they happen to not use a restoration staff and therefor only have 1 shield against stamina dmg available?
Kill him. He's hitting you with 2K damage per shot. That's 4K DPS at best. Even if you do absolutely nothing to defend yourself, you still have over 6 seconds to DPS him with far more than 4K DPS. Sorcs still have some of the best burst in the game. Other than that, use CC, use LOS, use dodge even if you have to, just like all the other classes who didn't shield stack always had to.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Edit: Not worth the time put into the response.Edited by Derra on September 9, 2015 8:29AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation. An extra 10k hp could just mean you take one or two more hits. FYI if you see a sorc running around with 14-16k hp they've either forgotten their food buffs or they're using drink buffs, in which case they'll have a maximum of 26k magicka meaning their shields won't be as strong as if they were using food buffs and had 32k magicka, but their regen will be well over 2k. As a sorc I have 19-20k hp depending on campaign buffs. Is this too little? How much should I have?
I've said this before but I do think that the use of hardened ward with harness magicka stacked on top is too much for magicka builds to have to deal with, especially in the latest patch. I could have argued for it with the high damage of 1.6 but it's op in 2.1, there I said it. But stamina users have never had to deal with harness magicka, it doesn't affect them so they could pretend it wasn't there but they see the numbers combined with hardened ward and thing "omg a shield nearly as big as their health pool nerf sorcs".
I still defend the use of healing ward with hardened ward on top and I'll explain why. Stacked wards absorb damage from the top down, so the ward on top takes the damage. Healing ward only lasts for 4 seconds so it might look like a huge shield when cast on low hp targets, but in 4 seconds it will be gone. When it expires it can have a huge burst heal but if it takes damage in that 4 seconds it will heal for less. So sorcs cast hardened over healing ward to protect it from damage to get a better heal out of it. They use it as a heal rather than a ward, they don't want it to take any damage.
I still believe this is a legit strat, albeit not a very original one. Sorcs don't have access to very many heals. My rapid regen ticks for 600 and crits for 1k. Healing springs ticks for 900 but slower and only for 3 seconds. Quick siphon returns 460hp every time you hit an enemy but this is useless when cc'd or on the defensive. As I understand it vigor ticks for around 1.2k although I might be wrong.
Shields are definitely not impenetrable. I've said this before too but hardened ward is 9k and takes unmitigated damage and dampen magicka is 6k and also takes unmitigated damage, and I have 75cp in the bastion. These shields are really easy to break. People are distracted by the issue of shield stacking when I think what really frustrates them is the shield spamming. What's the point in breaking a shield when it can just be cast again right? I can understand how this is frustrating, I hate fighting sorcs myself. But every skill can be spammed; I hate crushing shock spam, and molten whip spam, and lotus fan spam, and WB spam, and steel tornado spam. But that is why cc is in the game; to stop people from casting. If a sorc can't cast their shield then they're done for. They only have around 12k stamina and 600 stam regen, and that is really easy to drain. I see people telling sorcs to use cc to counter shield breaker, forgetting that they could be using cc to counter sorcs.
Shield breaker set is definitely the easiest counter to damage shields but it's not the only counter. I would like to add that I've recently stopped using harness/dampen magicka as I don't think it's necessary anymore, but I'm going to continue to use healing ward as an 'oh snip' button and then follow it up with a hardened ward. If you don't like it then fear/fossilize/spear/wrecking blow me.
PC | EU1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation.
We are talking about the shieldbreaker set here tho. The damage done by shieldbreaker does not depend on what armor you are wearing or on how much mitigation you have. My orc DK in full heavy armor will take exactly the same damage as your light armor sorc should he get hit by this set's special damage.
So the amount of HP you have is very much relevant in how long you can survive this set's damage while all other damage is blocked by your shield.Edited by Sharee on September 9, 2015 11:19AM1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation.
We are talking about the shieldbreaker set here tho. The damage done by shieldbreaker does not depend on what armor you are wearing or on how much mitigation you have. My orc DK in full heavy armor will take exactly the same damage as your light armor sorc should he get hit by this set's special damage.
So the amount of HP you have is very much relevant in how long you can survive this set's damage while all other damage is blocked by your shield. In fact, it is the only relevant thing.
Agreed, but in this case you're just prolonging the inevitable, light attacks can be fired off pretty quickly. I don't know exactly how quickly is feasible, but survival of this kind of assault now completely depends on your ability to heal through it. Say it was possible to do a light attack every 2 seconds, that's 1k dps obviously. Are sorcs capable of 1k hps on themselves? idk but it definitely makes thing really tricky 1v1 and impossible if there are more than one users of the set attacking you. Maybe that's a good thing idk.
I don't hate this set. I would rather it had been given to magicka users to combat the harness/hardened combo. But it currently has issues outlined in the op.PC | EU1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation.
We are talking about the shieldbreaker set here tho. The damage done by shieldbreaker does not depend on what armor you are wearing or on how much mitigation you have. My orc DK in full heavy armor will take exactly the same damage as your light armor sorc should he get hit by this set's special damage.
So the amount of HP you have is very much relevant in how long you can survive this set's damage while all other damage is blocked by your shield. In fact, it is the only relevant thing.
Agreed, but in this case you're just prolonging the inevitable, light attacks can be fired off pretty quickly. I don't know exactly how quickly is feasible, but survival of this kind of assault now completely depends on your ability to heal through it. Say it was possible to do a light attack every 2 seconds, that's 1k dps obviously. Are sorcs capable of 1k hps on themselves? idk but it definitely makes thing really tricky 1v1 and impossible if there are more than one users of the set attacking you. Maybe that's a good thing idk.
You don't have to heal through the damage, you just need to make your opponent run out of HP before you do. With your shield blocking all incoming damage except shieldbreaker procs, you have plenty of time to put significant pressure on him, making him worry about other things than just freely spamming light attacks on you.0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation.
We are talking about the shieldbreaker set here tho. The damage done by shieldbreaker does not depend on what armor you are wearing or on how much mitigation you have. My orc DK in full heavy armor will take exactly the same damage as your light armor sorc should he get hit by this set's special damage.
So the amount of HP you have is very much relevant in how long you can survive this set's damage while all other damage is blocked by your shield. In fact, it is the only relevant thing.
Agreed, but in this case you're just prolonging the inevitable, light attacks can be fired off pretty quickly. I don't know exactly how quickly is feasible, but survival of this kind of assault now completely depends on your ability to heal through it. Say it was possible to do a light attack every 2 seconds, that's 1k dps obviously. Are sorcs capable of 1k hps on themselves? idk but it definitely makes thing really tricky 1v1 and impossible if there are more than one users of the set attacking you. Maybe that's a good thing idk.
You don't have to heal through the damage, you just need to make your opponent run out of HP before you do. With your shield blocking all incoming damage except shieldbreaker procs, you have plenty of time to put significant pressure on him, making him worry about other things than just freely spamming light attacks on you.
It's not the guy in the back spamming bow light attacks I'm worried about, a quick frags will sort that out, it's the stam nb up in my face light attack weaving with fear, ambush, surpise attack and then cloak. Yes I know there are counters to all those things and I'm not complaining about any of them, but like I said before this set shouldn't have been given to stamina builds imo.
PC | EU0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation.
We are talking about the shieldbreaker set here tho. The damage done by shieldbreaker does not depend on what armor you are wearing or on how much mitigation you have. My orc DK in full heavy armor will take exactly the same damage as your light armor sorc should he get hit by this set's special damage.
So the amount of HP you have is very much relevant in how long you can survive this set's damage while all other damage is blocked by your shield. In fact, it is the only relevant thing.
Agreed, but in this case you're just prolonging the inevitable, light attacks can be fired off pretty quickly. I don't know exactly how quickly is feasible, but survival of this kind of assault now completely depends on your ability to heal through it. Say it was possible to do a light attack every 2 seconds, that's 1k dps obviously. Are sorcs capable of 1k hps on themselves? idk but it definitely makes thing really tricky 1v1 and impossible if there are more than one users of the set attacking you. Maybe that's a good thing idk.
You don't have to heal through the damage, you just need to make your opponent run out of HP before you do. With your shield blocking all incoming damage except shieldbreaker procs, you have plenty of time to put significant pressure on him, making him worry about other things than just freely spamming light attacks on you.
Can you give me an example of a build with no access to a reliable selfheal and no reliable selfdefense skill? No - though so. You´re talking nonsense and you know it. If two opponents with with some combat experience meet you can´t simply kill them before your hp run out.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can you give me an example of a build with no access to a reliable selfheal and no reliable selfdefense skill? No - though so. You´re talking nonsense and you know it. If two opponents with with some combat experience meet you can´t simply kill them before your hp run out.
Is a roll dodge a reliable selfdefense skill?
According to your logic it isn't - because there is damage that goes through it. Same with shields. They are capable of blocking everything except for minimal DPS coming from a specialized set - and this makes it useless? Come on.
I would love if there was a specialized set that would allow 2-4K DPS to go through my roll dodge, but nothing else would.
Edited by Sharee on September 9, 2015 12:19PM1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can you give me an example of a build with no access to a reliable selfheal and no reliable selfdefense skill? No - though so. You´re talking nonsense and you know it. If two opponents with with some combat experience meet you can´t simply kill them before your hp run out.
Is a roll dodge a reliable selfdefense skill?
According to your logic it isn't - because there is damage that goes through it. Same with shields. They are capable of blocking everything except for minimal DPS coming from a specialized set - and this makes it useless? Come on.
I would love if there was a specialized set that would allow 2-4K DPS to go through my roll dodge, but nothing else would.
Does someone who utilizes rolldodge have access to an on demand heal on every class? - checking for vigor. Yeah they do.
Thanks for exactly proving my point. The set is bs because the class has no access to any spell to counter the sets dmg without taking significant risks. Which is not the case for ANY other defense in the game.
Stamina builds had the exact same issue with 2h - rally in 1.6 before they moved vigor to a lower alliance rank. There was unmitigable dmg forcing every stamina build to run the only weapon with a heal accessible to them. This got changed bc it was crappy game design. Now the exact same thing is happening to sorcs...Edited by Derra on September 9, 2015 1:15PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
Healers don't need to spam healing ward to get you killed. One ward when they quickly spot an allies health dropping and you could be as good as dead, not time to react, no time to spot the person with the set to stun them, no time to delay until the ward goes away. Templars can burst heal well but for other classes this shield seems to be a popular choice, but now that it could just end up getting someone killed.
You seem to think i'm going on about shield stacking and shield spamming and i'm not, there are many ways you can easily get a shield and with it someone with this set can bypass all your defenses to deal raw damage very quickly and unless you are very attentive or have an addon for it you'll likely take a beating once someone with this set gets an eye on your shields, it'll only require the set to become common. And with how many people are lining up to get their revenge against the class they hate so much I doubt there will be a shortage of them.
He is simply stating there is a counter now to 1v x God mode sorcs. In group, there is no difference as you have dedicated healers. Sorcs are angry because it is extremely difficult to 1vx now. Like the rest of us now. 1.6 was your time in the sun.
Start grouping now. You are no longer tanky cannons without a counter. Happens to everyone when a god mode build is found
Every time I see this I realize there is nothing that I can say that'll change peoples minds. Yes, yes, get revenge on the evil sorcerer's who use what survival tools they have and what build they are more or less forced into because you want it. Go out, ignore all the flaws that this quickly thought out and poorly implemented set has by remembering this, its time to get payback, and that's all that matters now, who needs balance when you can rotate the fotm and reverse the purpose of shields in game?1 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭Can you give me an example of a build with no access to a reliable selfheal and no reliable selfdefense skill? No - though so. You´re talking nonsense and you know it. If two opponents with with some combat experience meet you can´t simply kill them before your hp run out.
Is a roll dodge a reliable selfdefense skill?
According to your logic it isn't - because there is damage that goes through it. Same with shields. They are capable of blocking everything except for minimal DPS coming from a specialized set - and this makes it useless? Come on.
I would love if there was a specialized set that would allow 2-4K DPS to go through my roll dodge, but nothing else would.
Agreed 100%
lol @ roll dodging being a problem. Roll Dodge was severely nerfed, shield stacking is still incredibly powerful. Even in other threads people who use Sorcs state how shield-stacking is still very powerful. Yet we have a small handful of people so hung up on shields having a counter, meanwhile a counter is built right into roll dodging. There is no comparison. Shield stacking allows people to live and escape zergs. Now, there's a chance they won't be able to (a better chance, not a guarantee) and the tears are flowing.
Yet I, someone who plays all classes regularly and have stuck up for many things Sorcs in the past with an unbiased outlook, see this as perfectly balanced and acceptable. Then again, I don't rely on shields in Cyrodiil...shields for intensive healing in PVE is not affected by this set for obvious reasons where it is needed more.0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Do you really weep because of a game in front of the monitor?ViciousWayz wrote: »the tears are flowing
In our house we just move on to another game once a game breaks.
The Shield Breaker set essentially is a Skill/Game Breaker set.
It inverts a positive skill (shield) into a negative outcome (damage).
Similarly skill/game breaking would be a Cloak Breaker or Heal Breaker set,
turning cloaking or healing into damage. These would also breaks skills and the game balance.
Edited by BalticBlues on September 9, 2015 2:53PM0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »
Learned this tactic from Deltia who is one of the best players worldwide and certainly not afraid of a fair fight. He said shield-stacking is needed, otherwise he gets killed too easily as a Sorc.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-stacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Fixed this for you.ViciousWayz wrote: »shield-staacking is a tactic reserved for people afraid to have a fair fight.
Devs, please also give us a Cloak Breaking set.
When people can't shield and can't cloak anymore, fights indeed may become fair.
Don't worry fixed again.... cloaking???? You really think cloak is a problem? AHAHAHHAHAHAAA... you sound very inexperienced. Oh Deltia said you must do it or get wrecked as a Sorc???? Oh okay... lmao. Deltia is a good player, and learning PVP still go ask and he'll tell you so himself.
Again, inexperience is your enemy. Go play each class to their fullest extent, then come back and tell me how Cloak is on par with Bolt Escape. It's not even close. Also there is a potion that does cloak better than the ability... longer duration, 0 need for magicka, works as intended always with no problems. Where's my bolt escape potion?
ZOS, give my Templar, NB, and DK a bolt escape potion!
Shield stacking = for the unskilled, now hopefully more people make the sacrifice of their current sets for the greater good and get shield breaker to give shield stackers everywhere a real fight and bring them back to the reality of how their skills REALLY are, without all of the shield stacking.
But the set penalizes anyone who uses any number of shields, and even those near shield users or who synergize with shield giving skills. It is a blanket nuking when a smaller more specific change would have, you know, worked a lot better.
No, it's not a nuking. People are still shielding like crazy and let's be honest you aren't worried about someone getting randomly shielded. You're worried about not being able to shield stack.
None of my regular group healers give a s*** whether there's a shield breaker set or not...they don't require shields to heal if they are suddenly faced with them.
It's a counter, to an abused game mechanic... that's all it is. And anyone doing it got off the hook very easily... this affects shield stackers more than anyone.. the longer you have shields spamming the longer you'll take 2k~ damage and that will add up over time... causing the shield stacker to either keep spamming shields, flee, or actually fight.
I used the term nuke in regards to how specific the changes were, they weren't precise an changed a few things. And for your group healers, do none of them use healing ward? Also I think maybe once I had used two shields at once, maybe. Right now off the top of my head about 3 of my characters have no shields slotted and the rest either have 1 or only have frost staff shields. But regardless of that, it still removes incentive to work with allies and use synergies, since once someone with this set shows up i'll bet they will make the most of your poorly timed shielding.
In PVP when we have a healer, we care more about our health than shields. Sure a shield is nice.. A... SHIELD. If someone with shield breaker comes over when I have a shield what would I do? Well for starters seeing health deplete while a shield is up is a very obvious sign... what else would you need flashing signs? So, I take damage.... I'd use a stun and distance myself but I certainly wouldn't keep re-applying shields and I don't know a healer that is actually experienced in healing and is up-to-date on this game that would be spamming shields instead of spamming heals. This isn't a problem for groups. This is a problem for shield-stackers.
75% of my characters use shields. But only 1 each. So why do I not care for this? Ah that's right, I don't rely on stacking shields as I already know it's about as cheap of a mechanic as you can abuse. This is going to remind people who actually is skilled and who is not because they will be forced to fight others or flee instead of entering God-mode when faced with less than 3-5 people who aren't shield-stacking.
This set does 2100dmg to you whether you have 3 shields active or 1. The damage doesn't scale up the more shields you have. With this in mind how are you suggesting that this set punishes shield stackers more than single shield users?
I don't actually have a problem with this set existing, other than they gave it to stam users instead of magicka users, but your arguments are weird and need challenging.
It does not punish shield stackers more because it scales with number of shields, but because shield stackers rely on impenetrable shields to get away with running around with minimal HP.
People who do not shieldstack do not rely on shields as their only defense, and thus are less punished when their shields are no longer the ultimate defense they once were.
I understand what you're saying but the amount of hp you have is largely irrelevant when you're wearing full light armour and have no mitigation.
We are talking about the shieldbreaker set here tho. The damage done by shieldbreaker does not depend on what armor you are wearing or on how much mitigation you have. My orc DK in full heavy armor will take exactly the same damage as your light armor sorc should he get hit by this set's special damage.
So the amount of HP you have is very much relevant in how long you can survive this set's damage while all other damage is blocked by your shield. In fact, it is the only relevant thing.
Agreed, but in this case you're just prolonging the inevitable, light attacks can be fired off pretty quickly. I don't know exactly how quickly is feasible, but survival of this kind of assault now completely depends on your ability to heal through it. Say it was possible to do a light attack every 2 seconds, that's 1k dps obviously. Are sorcs capable of 1k hps on themselves? idk but it definitely makes thing really tricky 1v1 and impossible if there are more than one users of the set attacking you. Maybe that's a good thing idk.
You don't have to heal through the damage, you just need to make your opponent run out of HP before you do. With your shield blocking all incoming damage except shieldbreaker procs, you have plenty of time to put significant pressure on him, making him worry about other things than just freely spamming light attacks on you.
rally+vigor+DMG>>>>>>>>>> shields+dmg on the sorc side as you have either to spam healing spring to compensate the dmg dealt to the sorc and recasting shields every second cast to be not effected by overflow effects while not having even 50% of the healing those two stamina abilities provide if you even try to dent the opponent.
in short i´m so happy i´ve finished my NB a few months ago... as its by far the best offensive class, templars are the only left option for a healer in pvp.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think more people should use this set.
V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a pretty stupid set. Encourages people against skilled gameplay and promotes spamming light attacks on a single class. requires no skill and no imagination.
i've encountered it a couple times today, so pathetically predictable. don't understand why people would want to use it.timidobserver wrote: »I think more people should use this set.
Of course you do.
Edited by Lucky28 on September 9, 2015 6:47PMInvictus1
