Feedback: Shieldbreaker 5p-set - it´s OP and should not go live.

cerrudo33

The problem as stated many times before is the approach for why many call sorcs OP in the current Meta and what ZOS has decided to do is treat a symptom not the disease.

The problem (for the millionth time) is shield stacking, now I know this sounds revolutionary, but a direct fix to this is to only allow one shield to be active at anytime and have a script that when applying these buffs, the strongest shield is applied, regardless of duration. Now that probably takes some "intense" coding and testing, hence why the smart choice is not being taken.

The high and mighty response they came up with is designing a set (with good stats leading up to the 5 PC) centered around crippling ANY class that uses a shield, hence the 21 pages on an item set no less... This would be akin to a "if you block, take 2k unresistable dmg, or active heals/healing effects to be halved/take dmg, or my personal favorite which would have so many of the ever present in this discussion, a set that adds pure stats/dmg for first 4 pieces then adds an aura to increase detection range by 20m and decays stealthed targets in range health by a %...

All of these would be considered direct counters to the class or something that somebody on these forums has QQ'd over but guess what, it would destroy the mechanic itself not fix anything, and that's the point.

Tldr: lazy response to an issue that has the potential to destroy the underlying mechanic itself. It's also not necessarily the set itself but rather the direction they are taking... Stop it now before my far fetched examples aren't so far fetched...

Master_Kas

Be ready for the forumsorc coming in "b-b-b-ut look at nightblades, they can permacloak (even stamblades)! nerf them! sorcs are weak, nerf shieldbreaker"

While they are totally fine with detectpots negating most nightblades defense

This set atleast you have to get and wear over other sets if you want to counter shields. Good tradeoff

Derra

Master_Kas wrote: »

Be ready for the forumsorc coming in "b-b-b-ut look at nightblades, they can permacloak (even stamblades)! nerf them! sorcs are weak, nerf shieldbreaker"

While they are totally fine with detectpots negating most nightblades defense

This set atleast you have to get and wear over other sets if you want to counter shields. Good tradeoff

The good sorcs will adapt - the bad ones won´t. But to implement a set that is screwing over the majority of magica builds (every player using harness) and destroying every attempt to be a vaible healer as a non templar.
Can´t get behind that logic sadly.


Also it´s not like cloak is the nightblades only defense. With 1.7 they have the best teleport in the game which happens to work great in combination with cloak. You can manage to play a nightblade without shields /resto staff.
Try that one on a sorc now.

vichoi

deleted

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Be ready for the forumsorc coming in "b-b-b-ut look at nightblades, they can permacloak (even stamblades)! nerf them! sorcs are weak, nerf shieldbreaker"

While they are totally fine with detectpots negating most nightblades defense

This set atleast you have to get and wear over other sets if you want to counter shields. Good tradeoff

The good sorcs will adapt - the bad ones won´t. But to implement a set that is screwing over the majority of magica builds (every player using harness) and destroying every attempt to be a vaible healer as a non templar.
Can´t get behind that logic sadly.


Also it´s not like cloak is the nightblades only defense. With 1.7 they have the best teleport in the game which happens to work great in combination with cloak. You can manage to play a nightblade without shields /resto staff.
Try that one on a sorc now.

You mean magicka nb without shields? In that case all he can do is escape. You need healing ward atleast to stay and fight since you got no other burst heal. Maybe blessing of restoration if not healing ward. However a resto staff is pretty much a must if you don't want to escape from every fight ^^

Set should maybe be toned down a bit, but it's a good counter to shieldspammers.

Cloak on other hand there are multiple ways of counter, ontop of a pot that reveals them to all allies close to him :P

Tempting as this set is, I wont be using it. But those who really want to counter shields will use it.

Edit: That post wasn't aimed at you tough derra. You know how to counter nightblades very well.
But some in these forums don't seem to be able to do it, hence they whine nerf instead even tough they have multiple tools to deal with cloak. And now when there is a set which counters shields good and not is useless, people want to make it useless it seems. Which is what was annoying me.

Derra

I was more thinking along the lines of sword and board + funnel / sap. It´s very much possible.
Those kind of builds don´t work at all for sorcerers.


I´m pretty much whining about cloak too. It´s a mechanic with nearly limitless potential for offense and defense. That´s why it´s in need of pretty hefty counters. Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

F7sus4

Grimbim wrote: »

The shieldbreaker set is way too strong at the moment.

It wouldn't be at all if 100% of PvP population would use it. But they won't anyway. Should you bother with these 0,5% that would like to waste their 5 slots just for the shield breaking bonus, it's up to you. Lots of sci-fi theories, and this is reality.

Tankqull

F7sus4 wrote: »

Grimbim wrote: »

The shieldbreaker set is way too strong at the moment.

It wouldn't be at all if 100% of PvP population would use it. But they won't anyway. Should you bother with these 0,5% that would like to waste their 5 slots just for the shield breaking bonus, it's up to you. Lots of sci-fi theories, and this is reality.

its not a shield but defense breaker due to the fact it is irresistable dmg wich is ment to bypass any defense. so its a free 2k dmg add on any light attack wich is everybody using in pvp anyway wich is a by far bigger dmg increase than any other 5slot bonus offers.

F7sus4

No one will climb the mountain to high-five a mosquito.

olsborg

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

ToRelax

So no comment from ZOS until the patch?
Very disappointing.

Rylana

Well when you consider my nightblades light bow attacks on 1.6 scaling were already hitting for 6k with 8-9k crits.... even if you factor in the new damage reduction...

lol

just lol

Lava_Croft

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Derra

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Because cloak is completely useless even when you´re detected...

GreenSoup2HoT

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Because cloak is completely useless even when you´re detected...

You only have to break 10 meter's to get out of that detection radius. So much complaining. You can use Teleport Summon Shade and Still Juke your opponent and get out of the radius.

Derra

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Because cloak is completely useless even when you´re detected...

You only have to break 10 meter's to get out of that detection radius. So much complaining. You can use Teleport Summon Shade and Still Juke your opponent and get out of the radius.

: P was being sarcastic. I´m fine with cloak and detect potions atm.

GreenSoup2HoT

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Because cloak is completely useless even when you´re detected...

You only have to break 10 meter's to get out of that detection radius. So much complaining. You can use Teleport Summon Shade and Still Juke your opponent and get out of the radius.

: P was being sarcastic. I´m fine with cloak and detect potions atm.

Good lol, it's funny though. Proxi det got such a huge nerf. 20k proxi's in live will now hit 8.4k lawl.

Magicka Nightblade's are going to be annoying fly's in my mind now.

Derra

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Because cloak is completely useless even when you´re detected...

You only have to break 10 meter's to get out of that detection radius. So much complaining. You can use Teleport Summon Shade and Still Juke your opponent and get out of the radius.

: P was being sarcastic. I´m fine with cloak and detect potions atm.

Good lol, it's funny though. Proxi det got such a huge nerf. 20k proxi's in live will now hit 8.4k lawl.

Magicka Nightblade's are going to be annoying fly's in my mind now.

They´re the only class that can get away without much cost reduction on jewelry. Once we see nightblades with v16 spelldmg enchants and stuff things might start to hurt again

Would not count them out just yet.

Lava_Croft

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I propose a potion that negates all enemy shields in your vicinity for you and your allies for 15 seconds to replace this armor set.

Because cloak is completely useless even when you´re detected...

It will be after the update. If you can see it, you can hit it. Since the potion reveals you to everybody nearby, they can all hit you.

Master_Kas

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

Derra

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

bowmanz607

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

detect pot to reveal, gap closers with magelight on. done deal.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

not to mention that stealth detection has hardcoded checking intervals(from my observation i would say every 2 sec) on the serverside wich additionally screws anyone without increased base detect radii as you are able to cover twice the distance (even agaianst radiant magelight) if you enter the detect range right after the last check has been done as the stealther.

Derra

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

detect pot to reveal, gap closers with magelight on. done deal.

Gapcloser on a sorc magica build. Mmmh. Yep.

This comment sums up the quality of your other comments in this topic pretty nice.

Sharee

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

detect pot to reveal, gap closers with magelight on. done deal.

Gapcloser on a sorc magica build. Mmmh. Yep.

This comment sums up the quality of your other comments in this topic pretty nice.

Magicka sorcs have streak. That's even better than gap closers for the purpose of revealing players.

leepalmer95

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

detect pot to reveal, gap closers with magelight on. done deal.

Gapcloser on a sorc magica build. Mmmh. Yep.

This comment sums up the quality of your other comments in this topic pretty nice.

Magicka sorcs have streak. That's even better than gap closers for the purpose of revealing players.

streak is only 15 meters, and we can't spam it in the next patch like nb's can spam cloak.

Streak is not a gap closer, it's an escape, well it used to be.

Maulkin

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

detect pot to reveal, gap closers with magelight on. done deal.

Gapcloser on a sorc magica build. Mmmh. Yep.

This comment sums up the quality of your other comments in this topic pretty nice.

Magicka sorcs have streak. That's even better than gap closers for the purpose of revealing players.

I would agree if it weren't for the stacking 50% cost on Streak.

Currently a cloaked NB can move almost as fast as I can Streak (to a direction unknown to me) and if I start Streaking around to reveal you, I just make a massive target of myself. Because I'll clearly be very low on magicka with 0 chance of escape if I get ambushed.

So my one AoE gets hugely increasing cost, while cloak doesn't. That's not a complain about Cloak, that's a complain about the redonkulous cost they added to Streak. Along with all the other nerfs they gave to it, it's now nothing like they skill I had and loved when I first leveled my Sorc. While Cloak (completely broken at launch admittedly) keeps getting better with each update.

bowmanz607

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Once cloak becomes a vaible defense just by pressing the button (and therefor useable by every scrub nb in cyrodiil) every other class will be nothing but a mere plaything for the few capable nightblades running around.

Im also worried abit about the potential cloak will now get. Its getting the potential to pick and choose who and when to kill ppl or when to cut your losses and vanish for good. Still have to see if the means for counters will actually be effective or not, detection pots will be mediocre...Flare-morphs, depends. Radiant magelight, well we all know how weak that is.

Radiant magelight isn't weak. I use it to hunt down magicka nbs every day And works very well unless Im on my snipe build ^^

Edit: Can be weak for ranged characters/specs tough. Not for melee's/close range specs tough since you stay on top of your target.

It´s strong for characters that already have stealth bonuses and are wearing medium armor. Try to use it without med armor and you will find that ~8m detection range + lag against a nightblade with 55% movement speed bonus while cloaked is lackluster at best.

detect pot to reveal, gap closers with magelight on. done deal.

Gapcloser on a sorc magica build. Mmmh. Yep.

This comment sums up the quality of your other comments in this topic pretty nice.

Sure. Streak or whatever the name is to the other morph of thundering pressence. Also keeping a curse up. Or the trap that sorcs have. I mean there is a number of combinations a sorc can use. Sorry if you have not been able to figure that out yet.

Grimbim

bowmanz607 wrote: »

...Sure. Streak or whatever the name is to the other morph of thundering pressence. Also keeping a curse up. Or the trap that sorcs have. I mean there is a number of combinations a sorc can use. Sorry if you have not been able to figure that out yet.

Thank you very much for this epiphany, you must be a real pvp god!

bowmanz607

Grimbim wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

...Sure. Streak or whatever the name is to the other morph of thundering pressence. Also keeping a curse up. Or the trap that sorcs have. I mean there is a number of combinations a sorc can use. Sorry if you have not been able to figure that out yet.

Thank you very much for this epiphany, you must be a real pvp god!

Just saying. Ppl complain about stealth and cloak when there are so many counters to them. Both via class skills and weapons. You can complain about the counters all day, but when a strong part of the population can use them no problem I don't see a problem with the counters but the people running them. Omg but they are so fast in stealth. Then hit them with a snare, cc them, immobilize them. Detect pots were nerfed. Ya but you only need them to get a lock on them then you should be using your skills to counter them. Cc them. Aoe them. Mage light them. Sorcs have one of the best counter combos next to a nb. There is just so many combinations to use to stop these players. Failure to utilize those combos is not fault of the devs but the player.