Feedback: Shieldbreaker 5p-set - it´s OP and should not go live.

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

Funny how all of a sudden the dmg of stamina abilities is completely ignored. Its not like a there will be only 2k dmg, its 2k per attack on top of the high dmg burst that comes from stam builds. Snipe and wrecking blow will still hit hard and they get a free 2k unresistable dmg on top of that.

Xsorus · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Funny how all of a sudden the dmg of stamina abilities is completely ignored. Its not like a there will be only 2k dmg, its 2k per attack on top of the high dmg burst that comes from stam builds. Snipe and wrecking blow will still hit hard and they get a free 2k unresistable dmg on top of that.

Ummm...since the 2k unresistable damage is only obtained through hitting a shielded attack, That Wrecking Blow damage/Snipe isn't going to hit you because your shield is going to absorb it.

BuggeX · August 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Funny how all of a sudden the dmg of stamina abilities is completely ignored. Its not like a there will be only 2k dmg, its 2k per attack on top of the high dmg burst that comes from stam builds. Snipe and wrecking blow will still hit hard and they get a free 2k unresistable dmg on top of that.

Ummm...since the 2k unresistable damage is only obtained through hitting a shielded attack, That Wrecking Blow damage/Snipe isn't going to hit you because your shield is going to absorb it.

wath if im a dk or templar with a smal shild?

edit: if the shild Brakes on the hit, the unres dmg should not be counted

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Has zenmax/devs commented on any further adjustments of this set?

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Funny how all of a sudden the dmg of stamina abilities is completely ignored. Its not like a there will be only 2k dmg, its 2k per attack on top of the high dmg burst that comes from stam builds. Snipe and wrecking blow will still hit hard and they get a free 2k unresistable dmg on top of that.

Ummm...since the 2k unresistable damage is only obtained through hitting a shielded attack, That Wrecking Blow damage/Snipe isn't going to hit you because your shield is going to absorb it.

Really? If I have a 3k shield after a while of fighting (one attack and one ability) and I get hit my health is dmged with the remaining dmg. Its already possible for stam builds to burst through shields and dmg health. This set forces shielders to maintain both the shield and health against the high dmg bursts AND health underneath the shield during the entire fight.

The 5-set needs to be changed to do increased dmg to shields so they are easier to burst down, this mechanic is just unfair to classes/builds that dont have any other options than shields to survive.

Edit: the bad design shows itself when someone with a magic shield is attacked by physical dmg, free unmitigatable dmg on top of already taking health dmg.

Alcast · August 2015

I guess Sorcs cant go Skill>shield>skill>shield>skill anymore.

However, I am sure people will find a way. Maybe we are back to DKs with 35k HP permablocker meta lol

Maulkin · August 2015

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

Alcast · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

Maulkin · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

Soulac · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

What has my cat to do with it?

Anyone using healing ward right now is unkillable, at least in a 1v1 fight. He'll only die by making major mistakes or getting affected by bugs.
~30% extra dmg based on Shieldstrength would help indeed and is useful as non dmg stacking player as well.
I'd like to see both variations for a time on live and see how it would end..

Tankqull · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

What has my cat to do with it?

Anyone using healing ward right now is unkillable, at least in a 1v1 fight. He'll only die by making major mistakes or getting affected by bugs.
~30% extra dmg based on Shieldstrength would help indeed and is useful as non dmg stacking player as well.
I'd like to see both variations for a time on live and see how it would end..

well i know it sounds wierd but than why screw every one instead of fixing the healing ward itself?
i´ve said it now multiple times disable the 300% shield increase of steadfast ward and its morphs in cyrodiil/IC youll than have a ~8k shield either applied to two players or a heal (wich might recieve the 300% increase to the healing value).

that would be a usefull fix instead of tearing everybodies assess.

Alcast · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

If you manage to kill a sorc then he just sucks 1v1. You literally cannot kill sorcs that know how to spam shields.

Tankqull · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

If you manage to kill a sorc then he just sucks 1v1. You literally cannot kill sorcs that know how to spam shields.

you cant kill any class - utilizing healing ward in a 1vs1...

and with his proposed changes i gues you could as you would force the opponent to do nothing but spamming his shields.

Derra · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

If you manage to kill a sorc then he just sucks 1v1. You literally cannot kill sorcs that know how to spam shields.

I´ve killed every sorc i´ve encountered in cyrodiil so far that did not decide to run away when it was a 1v1 situation - once your enemy actively tries to kill you they become vulnerable while every class playing 100% defensive is unkillable (unless they´re vamp...).

Actually the hardest class to take down for me are:
Magica templar > Magica NB > Magica DK (permablock) > Magica Sorc > all stam classes with stam dks s&b being the hardest for stamina builds.

All of this under the assumption the enemy is capable and utilizing nirn...

The thing getting under peoples skin for sorcs is still teleport in my opinion. They should have waited with a bandaid fix to shields because they´re nerfing port once again.

Soulac · August 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

What has my cat to do with it?

Anyone using healing ward right now is unkillable, at least in a 1v1 fight. He'll only die by making major mistakes or getting affected by bugs.
~30% extra dmg based on Shieldstrength would help indeed and is useful as non dmg stacking player as well.
I'd like to see both variations for a time on live and see how it would end..

well i know it sounds wierd but than why screw every one instead of fixing the healing ward itself?
i´ve said it now multiple times disable the 300% shield increase of steadfast ward and its morphs in cyrodiil/IC youll than have a ~8k shield either applied to two players or a heal (wich might recieve the 300% increase to the healing value).

that would be a usefull fix instead of tearing everybodies assess.

I always say something about healing ward, I even made a thread about it.
Everyone seems to like infinity fights tho..

olsborg · August 2015

This set hits FAR too hard, I mean, my shadow silk spell hits for around 2.2k - 2.5k average. Crushing shock hits for around 3k, crystal fragment averagely hits ppl 5.5k.

And light attacks can be spammed so fast and doesnt cost anything.

Maulkin · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

If you manage to kill a sorc then he just sucks 1v1. You literally cannot kill sorcs that know how to spam shields.

lol. Duels happen every day, Sorcs still die.

I can built any class / any build and survive a 1v1 by going 100% defense. Whether that is a heavy armor perma-blocker or a medium armor perma-dodger vigor spammer, or a light armor shield spammer. As soon as you decide to go offensive gaps open up, that's how duels work.

I'm not here to say shields are not very strong at the moment. But the way you present facts is both wrong and shows an agenda.

Every thread / post you make at the moment is full of QQ and bias. Take a chill pill.

Derra · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

The best way would be for this set's damage to hit the Wards instead of the HP and scale with the size of the Wards. For example 35% of the ward's value is added on top.

For example if you have a small 5k shield the set will hit ~1.7k extra damage on your shields. Still good DPS boost. If you have stacked a Hardened Ward and Healing Ward and Barrier and have a 30k shield, the set will add ~10k damage on the wards for that first hit.

That would still be hugely efficient when fighting magicka builds and it would be more efficient the more your opponent shield stacks. But it would not screw over everyone who got a tiny shield from a passive or form a friendly DKs Igneous shield or whatever.

Oh and then the name shield breaker would match what the set would actually be doing.

That wont fix the shieldspamming issue

If you can't kill a shield-spammer with all that extra DPS then I'm afraid the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

If you manage to kill a sorc then he just sucks 1v1. You literally cannot kill sorcs that know how to spam shields.

lol. Duels happen every day, Sorcs still die.

I can built any class / any build and survive a 1v1 by going 100% defense. Whether that is a heavy armor perma-blocker or a medium armor perma-dodger vigor spammer, or a light armor shield spammer. As soon as you decide to go offensive gaps open up, that's how duels work.

I'm not here to say shields are not very strong at the moment. But the way you present facts is both wrong and shows an agenda.

Every thread / post you make at the moment is full of QQ and bias. Take a chill pill.

^This.

It´s like ppl in heavy armor permablocking complain they can´t kill a single sorc. Well in reality a single sorc can´t kill them either...

SeptimusDova · August 2015

no changes noted for Shield Breaker in 2.1.3

Yuke · August 2015

on top of that skoria and nerieneth procs on shields now.

GG

Alcast · August 2015

GG

Xeniph · August 2015

Derra wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

I'm failing to see why slotting combat prayer won't cover this.
On live I'll heal between 6-9k per cast.
That will be 4-6k next patch.

Why are people saying that combat prayer + mutagen won't heal though light attack spam with this set?

Because we´ve tested exactly that. The only thing capable of healing the dmg of (admittedly only light attack spam with a bow) is healing springs + rapid regen. Even with these two slotted once you are healdebuffed you NEED purge to counter that or you will die.

As other players have said. It does not get better when ppl use other attacks. A full combination of lets say lightattack + set + suprise attack + bash is very much capable of twoshotting players even on the pts.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

@Derra Did you make the same tests with a dual wield or a 2h instead of a bow? Just curious if the swing is fast enough with melee weapons to get the same result as with a bow.

We used 1h shield for a couple of tests but honestly it´s not about the potential of spamming only light attacks anyway. The set buffs your normal dmg rotation by quite a bit and counters a wide variety of defense once shields are in play - should this go live as is we´ll all be running this in our grp builds (because thats where 250 weaponpower are not as important as getting dmg through that last second healing ward - hnnnggg).

Since nobody from zos has even bothered to comment here if some of the issues (harness magica proccing for stamina attacks, ignoring mistform + block mitigation and invalidating healing ward compared to breath of live) are even being looked at i´m currently busy working out how to get 50k stones as fast as possible...

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we atleast get a response on the issues mentioned above? Is this all working as intended?

When you say test are you refering to the 3 clip video on this thread? Of so please see comment 463. That test is an inaccurate portal of how the set actually operates in a real situation.

You´re right. In a real situation it gets worse...

That right there is just false information. The situation gets better for the defender in a "real" fight. Due to interrupts, CC, LOS, Roll dodge, block. Putting pressure on the attacker under normal circumstances will lower the dps, not even taking into account that abilities will be used, futher lowering the amount of light attacks incoming.

What do you propose the team respond to? Harness and Ward are shields and as for mistform and block, what part of "unresistable" damage is confusing? Regardless of what the shield absorbs, or what damage type initiated the attack, if a shield is present and a light attack is performed, the set bonus kicks in. I don't get where folks require more clarification on the matter.

Harness is currently a shield that only absorbs magica attacks. Once you apply it a stamina based build will not drain it and you´ve pretty much given them a free 2000 dmg on every lightattack without harness defending against anything they do. Seems reasonable...
I don´t get why this set is stamina based anyway. Shields are a far greater problems for magica builds to begin with.

You just come here saying: lolol it´s working like the setbonus states.

Also block... Set ignores block too so anyone playing a blockchar is going to be really pleased when he gets my healing ward and after that just explodes to a moron spamming light attacks which he can do exactly nothing about.

The setbonus should atleast only work on shields initiated by the attacked target AND only if the lightattack triggering it was absorbed by a shield.

I know how Harness works. However, unfortunately the set bonus doesn't require you to understand how it works or agree that a stamina based weapon should only proc on a shield that would effect said light attack for it to work.

My initial point stands. The set clearly states "shields" and "unresistable". So while you may disagree with it's nuances and/or interactions with particular abilities, it clearly is working in a very literal sense when compared to the tooltip. ( Which is very rare for an ESO tooltip)

I can appreciate your opinions on the matter, however I disagree. I say penalizing any ward usage, on any player, regardless of absorption type or where it came from, is a good thing. In fact, I don't think this set goes far enough.

Derra · August 2015

Ah well. Stamina sorc with shieldbreaker here i come.

No point in playing support if i can´t support anyone.

olsborg · August 2015

Heres to hoping they are in the thinkbox about this set since they just buffed it, and dont want to just revert or nerf it again. Heres to hoping they actually find a good solution to this set.

Derra · August 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Heres to hoping they are in the thinkbox about this set since they just buffed it, and dont want to just revert or nerf it again. Heres to hoping they actually find a good solution to this set.

Well... That´s got to be the most "the glass is half full" response out of all the glass is half full responses i´ve ever read.

Xeven · August 2015

I could be wrong, but I dont think anyone is going to wear this set. It's not that great aside from attacking shielded targets.

Lets see a show of hands. Anyone planning on using this set, please, say so in this thread.

Yuke · August 2015

<-

the reason why is being shown in the videos derra, iya and me have posted here.

olsborg · August 2015

Derra wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Heres to hoping they are in the thinkbox about this set since they just buffed it, and dont want to just revert or nerf it again. Heres to hoping they actually find a good solution to this set.

Well... That´s got to be the most "the glass is half full" response out of all the glass is half full responses i´ve ever read.

Well, too much of the other alternative just makes me think about uninstalling again.. Heres to hoping! *cheers*

ToRelax · August 2015

That shieldbreaker wasn't changed is the most concernig change I found in the patch notes...

Xeven · August 2015

I will say this. I took a break shortly after console release. Coming back now, Rawl'Kah is noticeably less populated. Like almost empty relative to the start of 1.6.

If my class is underpowered, I'll be taking permanent break.