Feedback: Shieldbreaker 5p-set - it´s OP and should not go live.

omfgitsbatman

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

This set is not as situational as people think it is.
There are so many damage shields in Cyrodiil. Almost Everyone uses one.
There are the class shields that are used by most builds- Blazing shield, hardened ward, igneous shields (also the dragon leap morph with the shield)
Then you have shields from gear sets like whitestrakes.
Then you have healing ward from resto staff
Then you have barrier, which almost every group uses
Even Brawler gives a damage shield

Almost everyone uses a damage shield. Don't act like it's just sorcs. I'd say 95% or more people use damage shields. Even if they don't, things like barrier, igneous shields and healing ward will still get put on them by accident if they get close to a group.

This being said, This set is not situational. The 2,3,4 pc bonuses are not terrible. The 5 pc in it's current state is crazy good. It will easily become one of the most overused sets in pvp. This will probably lead to people just not using their class damage shields at all since it will be more of a hindrance than anything. This will lead to much shorter TTK, and we'll be back to the 1-shot ganking in no time flat.

I mainly play a magicka nightblade, and I use healing ward since I don't have a class shield, but I could learn to live without it pretty easily. I still will have cloak though, every other class will then have a defense skill that actually will harm them more than help about 25-40% of the time.
I'm a nightblade and I'm telling you now that if this set does not get nerfed, the rise of the Nightblade that everyone is already complaining about will be a lot worse since Stamina nightblade is one of the few builds that can easily get away with no damage shields. I mean, I don't have an issue with that if you want to make my brethren even stronger. Just know what you are arguing for.

well with the nerf of shields, shields like igneous and blazing are not worth slotting any more. so less ppl using sheilds. again, the shield still mitigates damage. you pop a sheild and are immun to all damage for that duration. now, you get hit with 2k damage. so, instead of someone hitting you as hard as their main dps, they only hit you for as much as a light attack. You are literally complaining about getting hit by a light attack while you have a shield up. come one people...really? get over yourselves. I also use shields, but i also know that someone spamming a light attack wont kill me. the only exception, when someone pops a shield at 5k health or less. now you are vulnerable to death. but that is all it is...vulnerability no guaranteed. so, for this to be worht ppl giving up overall damage from a combination of sets they have to ask themselves...is a light attack worth it? would i just rather burst through a sheild when i come across it?

its a light attack!!!!!

Did you see OP's video? while he had a damage shield up, it was impossible to heal through the damage that was being done to him with the set. The people wearing this set won't just be spamming light attacks, they will hit you with all their normal abilities, then the second they see a shield, it will be light attack spam and nothing you can do about it from that point.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

This set is not as situational as people think it is.
There are so many damage shields in Cyrodiil. Almost Everyone uses one.
There are the class shields that are used by most builds- Blazing shield, hardened ward, igneous shields (also the dragon leap morph with the shield)
Then you have shields from gear sets like whitestrakes.
Then you have healing ward from resto staff
Then you have barrier, which almost every group uses
Even Brawler gives a damage shield

Almost everyone uses a damage shield. Don't act like it's just sorcs. I'd say 95% or more people use damage shields. Even if they don't, things like barrier, igneous shields and healing ward will still get put on them by accident if they get close to a group.

This being said, This set is not situational. The 2,3,4 pc bonuses are not terrible. The 5 pc in it's current state is crazy good. It will easily become one of the most overused sets in pvp. This will probably lead to people just not using their class damage shields at all since it will be more of a hindrance than anything. This will lead to much shorter TTK, and we'll be back to the 1-shot ganking in no time flat.

I mainly play a magicka nightblade, and I use healing ward since I don't have a class shield, but I could learn to live without it pretty easily. I still will have cloak though, every other class will then have a defense skill that actually will harm them more than help about 25-40% of the time.
I'm a nightblade and I'm telling you now that if this set does not get nerfed, the rise of the Nightblade that everyone is already complaining about will be a lot worse since Stamina nightblade is one of the few builds that can easily get away with no damage shields. I mean, I don't have an issue with that if you want to make my brethren even stronger. Just know what you are arguing for.

well with the nerf of shields, shields like igneous and blazing are not worth slotting any more. so less ppl using sheilds. again, the shield still mitigates damage. you pop a sheild and are immun to all damage for that duration. now, you get hit with 2k damage. so, instead of someone hitting you as hard as their main dps, they only hit you for as much as a light attack. You are literally complaining about getting hit by a light attack while you have a shield up. come one people...really? get over yourselves. I also use shields, but i also know that someone spamming a light attack wont kill me. the only exception, when someone pops a shield at 5k health or less. now you are vulnerable to death. but that is all it is...vulnerability no guaranteed. so, for this to be worht ppl giving up overall damage from a combination of sets they have to ask themselves...is a light attack worth it? would i just rather burst through a sheild when i come across it?

its a light attack!!!!!

Did you see OP's video? while he had a damage shield up, it was impossible to heal through the damage that was being done to him with the set with rapid regen and combat prayer. The people wearing this set won't just be spamming light attacks, they will hit you with all their normal abilities, then the second they see a shield, it will be light attack spam and nothing you can do about it from that point.

did you watch the video? lets first ignore the fact that it was not even a real combat situation. in my experience with the set so far, you still have to be on top of your game to get a kill from it. you cant merely hope to spam light attacks to kill someone. not even when they are low health. a player fights back, will cc, will dodge, will use LOS to avoid this damage. but again lets ignore this factor.

lets instead focus on the fact that it took about 17 light attacks for the first one. it took about 22 light attacks with second. it took about 32 light attacks with the third. (we ill also ignore the fact that this was tested wiht a bow which is the fastest light attack and not everyone will use a bow). the point is it takes 17-32 light attacks to ill a person that is just standing there. lets add in the addition of you know, the person fighting back. no one, especially someone that is aware a person is using this set, is going to stand there and let you spam light attacks on them. The video is skewed. any reasonable person would understand this. that said, even if you think it is not, the shear number of light attacks needed in succession is just dumb. so ya use the video for reference if you want, but it has no bearing as to how the set plays out. any reasonable player and most definitely ZoS will see this.

It's not only skewed on the defensive side. Someone on offense is not going to just stand there and hope to get a kill without trying to CC and such either. The fact that this set cannot be healed through by a rapid regen and combat prayer is the worrying part. I have done testing myself. And PVP is still PVP. It does take a few attacks to get a kill, using LOS and such will work just as effectively on this set as everything else. It is the fact that this set bonus alone and light attacks can kill someone spamming heals. This set is really really good. 2k damage is not that large, but it's on a light attack. If you animation cancel, you are doing your light attacks and skills, so you are bursting the shields with your normal skills and light attack weaves and getting the unresistable damage that already can't be reasonably healed through by itself. So if it takes 3 LA weaves to get through your shield, your defenses are down and you already have a large chunk of health missing. God forbid you try to put up another shield.

This set is no joke. 2k doesn't seem like that much, but it's not just 2k. It's on top of everything else and unresistable and unhit by the cyrodiil damage debuff and unmitigated in mistform.
It needs to get hit by the Cyrodiil damage debuff. If it does, this set will be much more balanced.

Xeven

I want a set that does 2k damage through wings and cloak. Fair is fair.

On a more optimistic note, I doubt anyone going to wear this rubbish.

Maulkin

bowmanz607 wrote: »

lets instead focus on the fact that it took about 17 light attacks for the first one. it took about 22 light attacks with second. it took about 32 light attacks with the third. (we ill also ignore the fact that this was tested wiht a bow which is the fastest light attack and not everyone will use a bow). the point is it takes 17-32 light attacks to ill a person that is just standing there.

And what you are conveniently ignoring is that given any other scenario between any two other builds, you can survive infinite light attack spam without breaking a sweat. If I spam my light attacks which do 1.5k damage to a stamina build he can simply outheal forever with vigor and rally.

The point is that if you can't survive a simple light attack spam while spamming heals, what are you going to do when CC and other damaging attacks are thrown in? Not to mention what happens if you come up against 2 other players that are wearing that set (highly likely).

Duukar

Shields right now replace heals and defend against anything. This set means a player will need to use varied skills to defend against varied attackers.

If you face a Shield Breaker you DONT CAST A SHIELD. Having a shield up adds 2.1k you cant defend.

So instead of slotting one skill to stack your defense and be nearly unkillable you will need to slot 2 skills for defense. Making wise choices on the fly will keep you alive and making bad choices, like relying on shield spam to survive ANY ATTACK, will get you killed.

This is the best thing to happen to PvP in ages.

Well played Zeni. Do not nerf this set!!!!


DUUK

omfgitsbatman

Duukar wrote: »

Shields right now replace heals and defend against anything. This set means a player will need to use varied skills to defend against varied attackers.

If you face a Shield Breaker you DONT CAST A SHIELD. Having a shield up adds 2.1k you cant defend.

So instead of slotting one skill to stack your defense and be nearly unkillable you will need to slot 2 skills for defense. Making wise choices on the fly will keep you alive and making bad choices, like relying on shield spam to survive ANY ATTACK, will get you killed.

This is the best thing to happen to PvP in ages.

Well played Zeni. Do not nerf this set!!!!


DUUK

How do you know that you're facing a person in a shield breaker set until it's too late?

Wreuntzylla

Xeven wrote: »

I want a set that does 2k damage through wings and cloak. Fair is fair.

On a more optimistic note, I doubt anyone going to wear this rubbish.

Why a set? Use any AoE...

manny254

LOL walk up to a sorc and spam light attacks on them like that. They will nuke you to oblivion.

Derra

Duukar wrote: »

Shields right now replace heals and defend against anything. This set means a player will need to use varied skills to defend against varied attackers.

If you face a Shield Breaker you DONT CAST A SHIELD. Having a shield up adds 2.1k you cant defend.

So instead of slotting one skill to stack your defense and be nearly unkillable you will need to slot 2 skills for defense. Making wise choices on the fly will keep you alive and making bad choices, like relying on shield spam to survive ANY ATTACK, will get you killed.

This is the best thing to happen to PvP in ages.

Well played Zeni. Do not nerf this set!!!!


DUUK

Yep thats why it´s stated that you need atleast 3 skills to counter the setbonus not two different ones - no you need 3 new defense skills in addition to the 3 to 4 you´re already using.

leepalmer95

So in other words everyones going to just go magicka nb and sorc will get screwed over?

jrkhan

I'm failing to see why slotting combat prayer won't cover this.
On live I'll heal between 6-9k per cast.
That will be 4-6k next patch.

Why are people saying that combat prayer + mutagen won't heal though light attack spam with this set?

Duukar

Derra wrote: »

Yep thats why it´s stated that you need atleast 3 skills to counter the setbonus not two different ones - no you need 3 new defense skills in addition to the 3 to 4 you´re already using.

Derra,

You act like you are entirely helpless caught in the melee range of my light attacks. Man you must die ALOT!

Any healer built to heal through the dmg of a DPS character will have no issue healing through this. Especially if they are smart enough not to put a dmg shield up....

Any Sorc who wants to do top burst DPS and have top mobility and be unkillable and not need a healer is living in the past. Those days are coming to an end my friend. Just how many roles do you need to fill by yourself?????

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

How do you know that you're facing a person in a shield breaker set until it's too late?[/quote]

Goodness.. Until its too late? Just how fast can a person chew through approx 20k health swinging light attacks?? PvP is a game of reaction times and decisions. The choice to just spam one ability and be unkillable is done. You will face 1/10 players with this set up. CC em. Kite em. BURST EM!

Just please stop crying!

bowmanz607

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

This set is not as situational as people think it is.
There are so many damage shields in Cyrodiil. Almost Everyone uses one.
There are the class shields that are used by most builds- Blazing shield, hardened ward, igneous shields (also the dragon leap morph with the shield)
Then you have shields from gear sets like whitestrakes.
Then you have healing ward from resto staff
Then you have barrier, which almost every group uses
Even Brawler gives a damage shield

Almost everyone uses a damage shield. Don't act like it's just sorcs. I'd say 95% or more people use damage shields. Even if they don't, things like barrier, igneous shields and healing ward will still get put on them by accident if they get close to a group.

This being said, This set is not situational. The 2,3,4 pc bonuses are not terrible. The 5 pc in it's current state is crazy good. It will easily become one of the most overused sets in pvp. This will probably lead to people just not using their class damage shields at all since it will be more of a hindrance than anything. This will lead to much shorter TTK, and we'll be back to the 1-shot ganking in no time flat.

I mainly play a magicka nightblade, and I use healing ward since I don't have a class shield, but I could learn to live without it pretty easily. I still will have cloak though, every other class will then have a defense skill that actually will harm them more than help about 25-40% of the time.
I'm a nightblade and I'm telling you now that if this set does not get nerfed, the rise of the Nightblade that everyone is already complaining about will be a lot worse since Stamina nightblade is one of the few builds that can easily get away with no damage shields. I mean, I don't have an issue with that if you want to make my brethren even stronger. Just know what you are arguing for.

well with the nerf of shields, shields like igneous and blazing are not worth slotting any more. so less ppl using sheilds. again, the shield still mitigates damage. you pop a sheild and are immun to all damage for that duration. now, you get hit with 2k damage. so, instead of someone hitting you as hard as their main dps, they only hit you for as much as a light attack. You are literally complaining about getting hit by a light attack while you have a shield up. come one people...really? get over yourselves. I also use shields, but i also know that someone spamming a light attack wont kill me. the only exception, when someone pops a shield at 5k health or less. now you are vulnerable to death. but that is all it is...vulnerability no guaranteed. so, for this to be worht ppl giving up overall damage from a combination of sets they have to ask themselves...is a light attack worth it? would i just rather burst through a sheild when i come across it?

its a light attack!!!!!

Did you see OP's video? while he had a damage shield up, it was impossible to heal through the damage that was being done to him with the set. The people wearing this set won't just be spamming light attacks, they will hit you with all their normal abilities, then the second they see a shield, it will be light attack spam and nothing you can do about it from that point.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

This set is not as situational as people think it is.
There are so many damage shields in Cyrodiil. Almost Everyone uses one.
There are the class shields that are used by most builds- Blazing shield, hardened ward, igneous shields (also the dragon leap morph with the shield)
Then you have shields from gear sets like whitestrakes.
Then you have healing ward from resto staff
Then you have barrier, which almost every group uses
Even Brawler gives a damage shield

Almost everyone uses a damage shield. Don't act like it's just sorcs. I'd say 95% or more people use damage shields. Even if they don't, things like barrier, igneous shields and healing ward will still get put on them by accident if they get close to a group.

This being said, This set is not situational. The 2,3,4 pc bonuses are not terrible. The 5 pc in it's current state is crazy good. It will easily become one of the most overused sets in pvp. This will probably lead to people just not using their class damage shields at all since it will be more of a hindrance than anything. This will lead to much shorter TTK, and we'll be back to the 1-shot ganking in no time flat.

I mainly play a magicka nightblade, and I use healing ward since I don't have a class shield, but I could learn to live without it pretty easily. I still will have cloak though, every other class will then have a defense skill that actually will harm them more than help about 25-40% of the time.
I'm a nightblade and I'm telling you now that if this set does not get nerfed, the rise of the Nightblade that everyone is already complaining about will be a lot worse since Stamina nightblade is one of the few builds that can easily get away with no damage shields. I mean, I don't have an issue with that if you want to make my brethren even stronger. Just know what you are arguing for.

well with the nerf of shields, shields like igneous and blazing are not worth slotting any more. so less ppl using sheilds. again, the shield still mitigates damage. you pop a sheild and are immun to all damage for that duration. now, you get hit with 2k damage. so, instead of someone hitting you as hard as their main dps, they only hit you for as much as a light attack. You are literally complaining about getting hit by a light attack while you have a shield up. come one people...really? get over yourselves. I also use shields, but i also know that someone spamming a light attack wont kill me. the only exception, when someone pops a shield at 5k health or less. now you are vulnerable to death. but that is all it is...vulnerability no guaranteed. so, for this to be worht ppl giving up overall damage from a combination of sets they have to ask themselves...is a light attack worth it? would i just rather burst through a sheild when i come across it?

its a light attack!!!!!

Did you see OP's video? while he had a damage shield up, it was impossible to heal through the damage that was being done to him with the set with rapid regen and combat prayer. The people wearing this set won't just be spamming light attacks, they will hit you with all their normal abilities, then the second they see a shield, it will be light attack spam and nothing you can do about it from that point.

did you watch the video? lets first ignore the fact that it was not even a real combat situation. in my experience with the set so far, you still have to be on top of your game to get a kill from it. you cant merely hope to spam light attacks to kill someone. not even when they are low health. a player fights back, will cc, will dodge, will use LOS to avoid this damage. but again lets ignore this factor.

lets instead focus on the fact that it took about 17 light attacks for the first one. it took about 22 light attacks with second. it took about 32 light attacks with the third. (we ill also ignore the fact that this was tested wiht a bow which is the fastest light attack and not everyone will use a bow). the point is it takes 17-32 light attacks to ill a person that is just standing there. lets add in the addition of you know, the person fighting back. no one, especially someone that is aware a person is using this set, is going to stand there and let you spam light attacks on them. The video is skewed. any reasonable person would understand this. that said, even if you think it is not, the shear number of light attacks needed in succession is just dumb. so ya use the video for reference if you want, but it has no bearing as to how the set plays out. any reasonable player and most definitely ZoS will see this.

It's not only skewed on the defensive side. Someone on offense is not going to just stand there and hope to get a kill without trying to CC and such either. The fact that this set cannot be healed through by a rapid regen and combat prayer is the worrying part. I have done testing myself. And PVP is still PVP. It does take a few attacks to get a kill, using LOS and such will work just as effectively on this set as everything else. It is the fact that this set bonus alone and light attacks can kill someone spamming heals. This set is really really good. 2k damage is not that large, but it's on a light attack. If you animation cancel, you are doing your light attacks and skills, so you are bursting the shields with your normal skills and light attack weaves and getting the unresistable damage that already can't be reasonably healed through by itself. So if it takes 3 LA weaves to get through your shield, your defenses are down and you already have a large chunk of health missing. God forbid you try to put up another shield.

This set is no joke. 2k doesn't seem like that much, but it's not just 2k. It's on top of everything else and unresistable and unhit by the cyrodiil damage debuff and unmitigated in mistform.
It needs to get hit by the Cyrodiil damage debuff. If it does, this set will be much more balanced.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

lets instead focus on the fact that it took about 17 light attacks for the first one. it took about 22 light attacks with second. it took about 32 light attacks with the third. (we ill also ignore the fact that this was tested wiht a bow which is the fastest light attack and not everyone will use a bow). the point is it takes 17-32 light attacks to ill a person that is just standing there.

And what you are conveniently ignoring is that given any other scenario between any two other builds, you can survive infinite light attack spam without breaking a sweat. If I spam my light attacks which do 1.5k damage to a stamina build he can simply outheal forever with vigor and rally.

The point is that if you can't survive a simple light attack spam while spamming heals, what are you going to do when CC and other damaging attacks are thrown in? Not to mention what happens if you come up against 2 other players that are wearing that set (highly likely).

ok, lets explore this healing issue. lets start with the video as a base line.

the first clip already present a problem. healing ward big heal never even procs b/c the player is spamming healing ward. this gives crap healing to begin with. so clip one is not even worth using.

the second clip i only ever see healing ward expire once. in this instance there was a burst heal, but that burst heal was low. this begs a question i will touch on later about the players setup. as to entropy, i mean if your using that as a heal that is just dumb. looking at regen, yes it should out damage a basic hot such as this. the underlying function of a HoT is to essentially help to mitigate damage over time from a player, not so much to heal a player. that is what burst heals are for. unless ofcourse you stack aoe which operates essentially as a burst heal for a group. but thus is not the issue right now.

the third clip presents what should be perceived as a guaranteed burst heal. (as opposed to healing ward for instance which is not guranteed until it expires) this is a much better illustration of healing and directly helps feed into a point I will make below. However, I would also like to point out the medicocre heal given by combat prayer. moreover, the fact that bleesing offers a mush larger burst heal and, imo, is a better alternative than combat prayer. I would be more concered about getting the heal rather than the 8% damage increase I can get from other abilities.

now lets break down the scenario as a whole. This video actually does a great job at illustrating how effective healing can be when a player uses this set against you, not the other way around. lets discuss...

As i previously pointed out the first video is merely spamming healing ward and giveing crap heals b/c healing ward never procs. this gives a baseline to work from. meaning, it illustartes what a crap heal can do for you. it shows that spamming a crap heal still mitigates damage enough to increase the amount of light attacks it takes to kill this player. A player not healing with 20k health would die in 10 hits from this set. so a crap heal increase your survivability by about 7 hits. (remeber, the video shows the player dieing in about 17 hits)

next, the second video continues to provide proof that increased healing helps even further. this video is basically is regeneration and entropy. (and from what i saw, one proc from healing ward). although still crap healing, still better healing than the first clip. this shows that increased healing is effective. again, it took roughly 22 shots this time from light attacks. the increased healing increased the damage taken by 5 hits. keeping in mind that the difference between spamming healing ward and regeneration is roughly the same. so, the only real change in this video is the entropy and one proc which expplains the low difference being 5 hits. but a difference nonetheless.

the last clip does a great job illustrating my point. with the combination of heals used in that video the player was able to take 11 additional hits compared to the 2nd clip. that is 16 more than the first clip and 23 more than not healing at all.

to say that heals are ineffective is simply false. in fact, it is inherently false. It is also important to note that this is also the fastest light attack weapon against a player not doing anything. essentially a target dummy. Additionally, given the low heals coming from the burst of the one healing ward and combat prayer, it makes me wonder what sets this person runs? what is their spell damage or max magicka? what champion points do they have in healing effectivness and what not? but lets not stop there. now lets put this in perspective of an actual combat situation.

a player you are facing will not simply let you light attack them 10, 17, 22, 33 times. it just wont happen. so, it is pertinent to raise those numbers to include the attacks missed. Moreover, a player will use LOS, CC, and attack the person using this set. they will not merely stand there. they will use easive manuvers and counter attack. So, now lets add into the scenario even more lack of hits do to being cc or having to use evasive manuvers yourself to avoid attacks. now not only are you not hitting the person, but there heals are being applied while your not attacking them. regeneration and entropy along with your health recovery are ticking away, but you are not hitting them for all those ticks. therefore, they get more health back then what the video suggests. additionally, someone using a healing ward is likely trying to get that heal to proc. this means they will do what it takes to not get hit by any attack. the higher the shield the higher the heal. so a player that relies on healing ward already is trying to avoid hits via LOS and dodgeing. therefore, having to avoid a player spamming light attacks is nothing new to these players.
now that we have looked at what amounts to a typical run of the mill fight we can see that not only will the numbers 10,17,22,33 increase, but also the healing will increase based on a fight scenarion.

Bottom line is that healing still does help a player when facing this set

lastly, it was mentioned that it is "highly likely" a player will be wearing this set. Lets break down a general idea of who will be running this set.

first, it is a stamina user set. so, how many stamina users. well with the nerf to dodgeroll and block coupled with the fix to nirn, magika will be the got to in this meta. this way a player has better healing, utility, etc and can focus on stamina for dodge in blocking only. so lets be generous and say that 40% of the population continues to use stamina.

next, lets look at the attainability of the set. it will take some time for players to get this set. i mean the cost from the vendors alone is significant. not tomention the price it will cost in gold to obtain it that way. so it will take a little time. but I say this to lead into my next point.

Given the time and resources it will cost to get a full set people will be choosing their sets carefully. people will weigh their options. not everyone likes the idea of having a set that is only usefull in certain circumstances. many people want a set that will always be beneficial. because of that some players will avoid this set and try to max out their overall damage that will be useful in all fights.such as combining sheer venom 4 pc with ravager. or perhaps sheer venom, shadow walker, and molag kena set. all of which provide significantly higher damage that is useful in all fights.(i dont know about you but i would rather rock a 5k-6k damage setup over a 2k-3k damage set up just to have the 5 pc bonus). couple this with the shield nerf that has many people dropping shields like igneous or blazing which reduces the overall number of shields people will be using which, alternatively, will push peopl away from this set. Or perhaps a player is seeking more stamina sustainability as oppssed to using this set.
now lets subtract this from the previously mentioned 40%. again we will be generous and estimate that 20% of the population will be using this set. (again, i find this very unlikely for the above reasons.) now lets add into the mix the availability of players on at the time you are playing. this also reduces the population of players on at the same time that you are who are running this set.

currently, there is no counter for shields, but there is a counter for every other skill in the game. you think that is fair? given my well-reasoned argument (you dont have to agree but it is well-reasoned nonetheless) I do not find this set at all to be OP. it is a L2P issue as i illustrated above. given my experience in fights with this set, it is not a real game changer. it is limited to certain instances in a fight in which it can be utilized much like an execute will. In fact, the people i have faced have had to adjust slightly to the set when they realize I am running it. HEaling ward still gives a nice strong heal that takes you out of the execute range that the set is most useful in.

Duukar

manny254 wrote: »

LOL walk up to a sorc and spam light attacks on them like that. They will nuke you to oblivion.

Yep!

jrkhan wrote: »

I'm failing to see why slotting combat prayer won't cover this.
On live I'll heal between 6-9k per cast.
That will be 4-6k next patch.

Why are people saying that combat prayer + mutagen won't heal though light attack spam with this set?

I know right?

Duuk

coolermh

manny254 wrote: »

LOL walk up to a sorc and spam light attacks on them like that. They will nuke you to oblivion.

This a million times... The set is pretty descent but certainly not overpowered

Xeven

So much rage in this thread. Hey Duukhead, you should see a Dr. for all that butthurt.

Ryuho

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So in other words everyones going to just go magicka nb and sorc will get screwed over?

No, ppls cry to much in this topic.. I spam swallow + mutagen combo, with CP invested in healing received/done it works great, without any shields..

Hope this set won't be changed.. Shieldstacking mechanism must go.. Sorcs will loose their OPness in 1 vs x situations, and should live with that.. No more *** harness/hardened/healing ward combo, and yeah try to break that ***, I stoped playing my sorcs, cause sorc became esy mode class, and duels between sorcs?? Hahah pathetic, who will forget to refresh shield faster and ani cancel dawnrbrkr.. Seriously, need a LOT of skill.. Just start use ur brain fellow sorcs, finally time to calculate ur tactic, play cleva, show some invention..

But naturally evry1 likes esy mode, so a lot of ppls here will Qq about this set, and how esy is to kill sorc.. Just calm down, get cold shower... Think about ur 1.7 build, u have 2 slots free now if u are so afraid of shieldbreaker, release ur harness and healing ward and slot maybe finally healing skills?? Oh yeah, som1 will cry sorc doesnt have healing skill, well slot resto skill/try stamina sorc and use vigor.. dark deal..

Some of u remember 1.0 - 1.4 eso, how many sorcs shielstacked there?? Most of ppls used only sorc shield and healed trough mutagen, healing springs.. and was OK, no1 cried about sorc OPness, ppls cried only cause blink..

I really hope those old times will come back, and to all ppls who cry here just.. "censored"..

pmn100b16_ESO

Sorcerors might sometimes have to heal themselves outside of healing ward spam. The horror.

"So I'm forced to use resto staff offhand..." Welcome to magicka Nightblade since day 0.

bowmanz607

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerors might sometimes have to heal themselves outside of healing ward spam. The horror.

"So I'm forced to use resto staff offhand..." Welcome to magicka Nightblade since day 0.

i mean people talk a big game about "having to use resto staffs now." good grief. it was the best option for magika builds on the off-bar anyway. why werent you using it? besides, in my experience, healing ward still works just fine against this set when you are playing someone that instead of yelling nerf they, well idk, PRACTICED. you know that L2P thing.

gotta love it dont you

jrkhan

If I'm understanding the reasoning of @Derra in 10+ pages in this thread - in small group play (3-5 players) a non-templar healer is having their main 'oh snip' button nerfed.

To be honest, that's okay with me - cast mutagen (same range) on a low health target if you believe an attacker has this set - then healing ward.

it's imperative for the target to actively avoid attacks for a few seconds (dodge roll/los) if you want healing ward to be effective. If they can't do that for whatever reason (out of stamina + low on health) then really - healing ward spam shouldn't be a 'mash to keep someone alive forever' button anyway - that teammate aught to be killed.

I'm just not understanding why this counter will actually have much of an effect on small group non templar healers to the point that the patch 'cant go live'

ToRelax

Ryuho wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So in other words everyones going to just go magicka nb and sorc will get screwed over?

No, ppls cry to much in this topic.. I spam swallow + mutagen combo, with CP invested in healing received/done it works great, without any shields..

Hope this set won't be changed.. Shieldstacking mechanism must go.. Sorcs will loose their OPness in 1 vs x situations, and should live with that.. No more *** harness/hardened/healing ward combo, and yeah try to break that ***, I stoped playing my sorcs, cause sorc became esy mode class, and duels between sorcs?? Hahah pathetic, who will forget to refresh shield faster and ani cancel dawnrbrkr.. Seriously, need a LOT of skill.. Just start use ur brain fellow sorcs, finally time to calculate ur tactic, play cleva, show some invention..

But naturally evry1 likes esy mode, so a lot of ppls here will Qq about this set, and how esy is to kill sorc.. Just calm down, get cold shower... Think about ur 1.7 build, u have 2 slots free now if u are so afraid of shieldbreaker, release ur harness and healing ward and slot maybe finally healing skills?? Oh yeah, som1 will cry sorc doesnt have healing skill, well slot resto skill/try stamina sorc and use vigor.. dark deal..

Some of u remember 1.0 - 1.4 eso, how many sorcs shielstacked there?? Most of ppls used only sorc shield and healed trough mutagen, healing springs.. and was OK, no1 cried about sorc OPness, ppls cried only cause blink..

I really hope those old times will come back, and to all ppls who cry here just.. "censored"..

Not a lot of people shield stacked back then? Todays shield stacking is a joke compared to Harness Magicka + any class shield in 1.0-1.4.
Only reason I had problems to 1vX in 1.5 was that my group build required vampirism. If there were no DKs, that wasn't much harder than in 1.6.
Stacking Harness with clas shields is still pretty OP against magicka builds, and this set isn't going to change that. So not sure what you expect, Sorcs will slot Grand Healing, that's not going to make them die any easier against players who don't use this set either.

Duukar

ToRelax

You been crying up a storm about this set. Why the change of heart now?

Ryuho

ToRelax wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So in other words everyones going to just go magicka nb and sorc will get screwed over?

No, ppls cry to much in this topic.. I spam swallow + mutagen combo, with CP invested in healing received/done it works great, without any shields..

Hope this set won't be changed.. Shieldstacking mechanism must go.. Sorcs will loose their OPness in 1 vs x situations, and should live with that.. No more *** harness/hardened/healing ward combo, and yeah try to break that ***, I stoped playing my sorcs, cause sorc became esy mode class, and duels between sorcs?? Hahah pathetic, who will forget to refresh shield faster and ani cancel dawnrbrkr.. Seriously, need a LOT of skill.. Just start use ur brain fellow sorcs, finally time to calculate ur tactic, play cleva, show some invention..

But naturally evry1 likes esy mode, so a lot of ppls here will Qq about this set, and how esy is to kill sorc.. Just calm down, get cold shower... Think about ur 1.7 build, u have 2 slots free now if u are so afraid of shieldbreaker, release ur harness and healing ward and slot maybe finally healing skills?? Oh yeah, som1 will cry sorc doesnt have healing skill, well slot resto skill/try stamina sorc and use vigor.. dark deal..

Some of u remember 1.0 - 1.4 eso, how many sorcs shielstacked there?? Most of ppls used only sorc shield and healed trough mutagen, healing springs.. and was OK, no1 cried about sorc OPness, ppls cried only cause blink..

I really hope those old times will come back, and to all ppls who cry here just.. "censored"..

Not a lot of people shield stacked back then? Todays shield stacking is a joke compared to Harness Magicka + any class shield in 1.0-1.4.
Only reason I had problems to 1vX in 1.5 was that my group build required vampirism. If there were no DKs, that wasn't much harder than in 1.6.
Stacking Harness with clas shields is still pretty OP against magicka builds, and this set isn't going to change that. So not sure what you expect, Sorcs will slot Grand Healing, that's not going to make them die any easier against players who don't use this set either.

So why crying about it, grand healing and deal with this crap.. Idk Elo but 1.0 - 1.4 was much enjoyable for me.. true harness was baddas there, but a lot of ppls hadn't stack as now that for sure.. Rylana made good topic about that..

Maulkin

Those who talk about grand healing and sorc sound to me like they would struggle to kill mudcrabs on starter zones.

Sorc is mobility

Standing on 1 spot and spamming grand healing 2-3 times is not going to keep you alive unless you are in 1v1 against a bad player or have an army of 20 behind you. The 3 rotations wasted casting grand healing is the time where you will get CC'ed and nuked to death.

The point of Healing Ward is that it's the only smart targeted burst heal. Anything else on that resto line is either not burst or not smart.

Maulkin

jrkhan wrote: »

I'm just not understanding why this counter will actually have much of an effect on small group non templar healers to the point that the patch 'cant go live'

Apart from the fact that it will have a huge effect on Sorc healing and self healing whether you believe/understand it or not...

Did you see the vid where it goes through, block and through mistform? Where it procs on Harness Magicka even if the attack is stamina and is not consumed by the shield? Where used with petrify which grants your petrified target a shield you can do 2.1k damage on petrified targets, thanks to that shield?

You are still asking why it can't go live?

bowmanz607

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Those who talk about grand healing and sorc sound to me like they would struggle to kill mudcrabs on starter zones.

Sorc is mobility

Standing on 1 spot and spamming grand healing 2-3 times is not going to keep you alive unless you are in 1v1 against a bad player or have an army of 20 behind you. The 3 rotations wasted casting grand healing is the time where you will get CC'ed and nuked to death.

The point of Healing Ward is that it's the only smart targeted burst heal. Anything else on that resto line is either not burst or not smart.

i disagree. blessing is a great burst heal.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

jrkhan wrote: »

I'm just not understanding why this counter will actually have much of an effect on small group non templar healers to the point that the patch 'cant go live'

Apart from the fact that it will have a huge effect on Sorc healing and self healing whether you believe/understand it or not...

Did you see the vid where it goes through, block and through mistform? Where it procs on Harness Magicka even if the attack is stamina and is not consumed by the shield? Where used with petrify which grants your petrified target a shield you can do 2.1k damage on petrified targets, thanks to that shield?

You are still asking why it can't go live?

yea that part is dumb. it makes not sense to allow that. those issues cant go live. the rest is fine.

ToRelax

Duukar wrote: »

ToRelax

You been crying up a storm about this set. Why the change of heart now?

I never said shieldstacking wasn't OP against magicka builds. After all, I lose a lot of kills because of that, too.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Those who talk about grand healing and sorc sound to me like they would struggle to kill mudcrabs on starter zones.

Sorc is mobility

Standing on 1 spot and spamming grand healing 2-3 times is not going to keep you alive unless you are in 1v1 against a bad player or have an army of 20 behind you. The 3 rotations wasted casting grand healing is the time where you will get CC'ed and nuked to death.

The point of Healing Ward is that it's the only smart targeted burst heal. Anything else on that resto line is either not burst or not smart.

I know very well, but it's still the best heal I can find to save me, both in group play and 1vX, when some enemy is making use of this set.

Lionxoft

Derra wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you would have read anything i´ve posted in this topic you´d know that you just made a complete fool of yourself... Mostly that my concerns with this set are not my own hp.

I don't have time to read through all of your posts here on the forums but I did in fact read the initial post. You aren't important and it's pretty damn foolish to think that you are important enough for someone to track your posts.

Beyond your notes on how the set is not functioning properly with harness the post was pretty worthless. I thought this part was pretty hilarious. It reminds me of people stating that sorcs were weak in pvp while 1.6 was on pts.

Derra wrote:

Secondly it renders the only active defense left for the sorcerer class useless (infact you´re better off not using your class shield at all when someone with that set is attacking you).

You'd hate an MMO with an actual counter based PvP mechanic. There is a counter to shield stacking and it requires the player to wear a full 5pc armor set. If you don't fight someone that is casting a shield then it's a worthless 5pc. There's a risk and a reward to fighting people while wearing this set.

Your entire complaint is like a Nightblade whining that piercing mark shows them while they are cloaked. Piercing mark is the counter to the constant invisibility playstyle that another Nightblade can pull off. It's a counter to a playstyle. There are risks and rewards. If you want to nullify the 5pc set bonus or not be affected by it then don't shield up.

Seriously, you just need to L2P.

I think you´re actually the one that has no idea of how good pvp games worked. Please insult people elsewhere and keep your hostility out of this topic.

Ok. So because you can't stack full magicka with 30k+ shields as your defense you're going to say that I don't understand how good pvp games work? That is funny. The person attacking you must be wearing the full set for it to affect you. You will also need to shield in order for that set to affect you.

DC Universe Online has some of the best action based combat in any MMO I've played to this day. Even better than ESO. The Ice class could utilize 5 different shields which are pretty powerful in that game. Ice tanks were near invincible until debuffs were made that completely wiped the shield immediately upon cast. Opponent is blocking a lot? Block break them. Are they block breaking a lot? Lunge them. Are they lunging a lot? Block them. Yeah, I'd say I fully understand what a good counter system is in PvP. It's your choice to utilize damage shields knowing this set is out there. There are plenty of other methods for defense in this game. Damage shields are not the only method.

It's a great counter to shield stacking.

Still leaves the question why you come into a topic insulting people that are looking for reasonable ways to balance a mechanic that is currently unbalanced and afterwards tell them you did not even bother to read the topic as a whole...

If you feel insulted by someone saying "L2P" or to adapt with the change then you're kind of soft. Shield breaker is a good counter to damage shields. One thing I'd add is that the set has a little more intelligence built into it. Like you said (and I acknowledged) with harness. Class shields, barrier, ferocious leap and healing ward might be the only shields that this needs to bite through. It still requires the attacker to wear the 5pc set and it still requires the defender to choose to cast a shield. Sure, it's easy to set it up against a buddy but exactly how many people will wear this set as opposed to Dreugh, Hundings or ravager? Wasting a 5pc bonus on a set which can be completely ignored by not shielding might not be wise.

I remember the Sorcs complaining about how they were weak in PvP while 1.6 was on PTS. Fun times.

Maulkin

bowmanz607 wrote: »

i disagree. blessing is a great burst heal.

There is nothing bursty about BoR, I tried using it on PTS.

It does 3.6k heal (5.5k crit) for me and that's with 30 CPs into increasing healing and 37k max magicka. While you still get 8k Wrecking blows or 10k bow heavy attacks (non-crits) with the weapon damage you can stack.

In the meantime a well timed Healing Ward will deliver an instant 1-1.5k and a 10k bubble that can still heal crit up to 15-16k even on PTS.

Basically BoR can heal maximum 5.5k whereas Heal Ward a maximum of 17.5k, or over three times more. Heal Ward is burst, BoR is bust.

Master_Kas

Xeven wrote: »

I want a set that does 2k damage through wings and cloak. Fair is fair.

On a more optimistic note, I doubt anyone going to wear this rubbish.

Slot any AOE it goes throuh cloak, if u use detectpot any attack goes through it.

Finally a real counter to shieldspammers. And people say forumblades are the worst, just look at this thread xD

Xeniph

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

This set is not as situational as people think it is.
There are so many damage shields in Cyrodiil. Almost Everyone uses one.
There are the class shields that are used by most builds- Blazing shield, hardened ward, igneous shields (also the dragon leap morph with the shield)
Then you have shields from gear sets like whitestrakes.
Then you have healing ward from resto staff
Then you have barrier, which almost every group uses
Even Brawler gives a damage shield

Almost everyone uses a damage shield. Don't act like it's just sorcs. I'd say 95% or more people use damage shields. Even if they don't, things like barrier, igneous shields and healing ward will still get put on them by accident if they get close to a group.

This being said, This set is not situational. The 2,3,4 pc bonuses are not terrible. The 5 pc in it's current state is crazy good. It will easily become one of the most overused sets in pvp. This will probably lead to people just not using their class damage shields at all since it will be more of a hindrance than anything. This will lead to much shorter TTK, and we'll be back to the 1-shot ganking in no time flat.

I mainly play a magicka nightblade, and I use healing ward since I don't have a class shield, but I could learn to live without it pretty easily. I still will have cloak though, every other class will then have a defense skill that actually will harm them more than help about 25-40% of the time.
I'm a nightblade and I'm telling you now that if this set does not get nerfed, the rise of the Nightblade that everyone is already complaining about will be a lot worse since Stamina nightblade is one of the few builds that can easily get away with no damage shields. I mean, I don't have an issue with that if you want to make my brethren even stronger. Just know what you are arguing for.

well with the nerf of shields, shields like igneous and blazing are not worth slotting any more. so less ppl using sheilds. again, the shield still mitigates damage. you pop a sheild and are immun to all damage for that duration. now, you get hit with 2k damage. so, instead of someone hitting you as hard as their main dps, they only hit you for as much as a light attack. You are literally complaining about getting hit by a light attack while you have a shield up. come one people...really? get over yourselves. I also use shields, but i also know that someone spamming a light attack wont kill me. the only exception, when someone pops a shield at 5k health or less. now you are vulnerable to death. but that is all it is...vulnerability no guaranteed. so, for this to be worht ppl giving up overall damage from a combination of sets they have to ask themselves...is a light attack worth it? would i just rather burst through a sheild when i come across it?

its a light attack!!!!!

Did you see OP's video? while he had a damage shield up, it was impossible to heal through the damage that was being done to him with the set with rapid regen and combat prayer. The people wearing this set won't just be spamming light attacks, they will hit you with all their normal abilities, then the second they see a shield, it will be light attack spam and nothing you can do about it from that point.

Also, take into consideration light attack weaving. While they are bursting your shield down they are also doing irresistable damage to you that you will have a very hard time healing through.

Using abilities against a shield stacker with this set is a dps loss. But you are right, I don't foresee a new light attack only build becoming the new meta.

And as to all the video's to date. They have been staged fighting, with both the attacker and defender standing around. Fights don't play out this way, and if you notice in Legendary's video he nearly wipes that guy out accidentally lol. Is the set marginally effective? Yes, but calling it OP is a massive overstatement. I'll agree the set is OP, when Sorcs ( we all know the set was designed for their shield) can prove it's better to not cast Hardened at all while fighting someone with this set on. I think we can all agree that eating ability+ligh/heavy attacks without a shield is much more dangerous than 2.1k unresistable.

Regardless, the set in it's current form is not as desirable as combinations of weapon damage/max stat bonuses. As regen has more value on jewelry/CP/abilities.