Septimus_Magna wrote: »@RinaldoGandolphi I have to disagree, magicka regen builds dont do enough damage to be competative in my experience.
When I tried a build with 2k magicka regen, 1.9k spell dmg and 34k max magicka on my sorc, my spells were hitting like wet noodles. My cfrags were hitting for 6-8k which didnt scare or kill anyone. Every magicka build I fought had harness magicka and healing ward so unless they made huge mistages I couldnt kill them. Most stam builds have decent spell resist, can dodge/block/reflect my spells so they were hard to kill as well. Some fights just ended with me streaking away because i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill me. With low damage you only put a little pressure on your enemy, this makes it easier for them to sustain. With high damage they need to spam abilities to stay alive, putting their sustain to the test.
Regen builds might be good for staying alive or group play but thats about it. For small scale pvp high damage builds are superior because sustain isnt such a big issue, at least in current live pvp.
With the damage reduction on pts, regen builds will do even less damage and can only win by out-sustaining their enemy. I have not tested this myself on pts but I can imagine this makes fights really boring. High damage builds will have a harder time bursting down their enemy, this will put more strain on their sustain which is their weakness.
Im curious to see what balance between regen and damage works for magicka and stamina builds in update 7. I think its good there's more emphasis on sustain as long as it doesnt make fights boring.
I have to disagree. I dislike regen builds myself, I prefer shorter fights.
But a regen build wins in the end if played right. I know a very famous Sorcerer who only has 1400 spell damage,32k Magicka and puts everything into stamina and Magicka regen and he wins.
Because he can outsustain everyone. As long as you can cast forever and as long as you can break each CC, there's nothing you have to fear. Regen builds are over the top in my opinion. But it's okay for me, because they sacrifise something you know ? Let players play the way the want, stop forcing your weird opinion and judgement on them (and I'm not talking to you Septimus you know i love you ). I could also add another opinion, but I will keep that one until the time has come and I'm sure it will during the pts time.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »@RinaldoGandolphi I have to disagree, magicka regen builds dont do enough damage to be competative in my experience.
When I tried a build with 2k magicka regen, 1.9k spell dmg and 34k max magicka on my sorc, my spells were hitting like wet noodles. My cfrags were hitting for 6-8k which didnt scare or kill anyone. Every magicka build I fought had harness magicka and healing ward so unless they made huge mistages I couldnt kill them. Most stam builds have decent spell resist, can dodge/block/reflect my spells so they were hard to kill as well. Some fights just ended with me streaking away because i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill me. With low damage you only put a little pressure on your enemy, this makes it easier for them to sustain. With high damage they need to spam abilities to stay alive, putting their sustain to the test.
Regen builds might be good for staying alive or group play but thats about it. For small scale pvp high damage builds are superior because sustain isnt such a big issue, at least in current live pvp.
With the damage reduction on pts, regen builds will do even less damage and can only win by out-sustaining their enemy. I have not tested this myself on pts but I can imagine this makes fights really boring. High damage builds will have a harder time bursting down their enemy, this will put more strain on their sustain which is their weakness.
Im curious to see what balance between regen and damage works for magicka and stamina builds in update 7. I think its good there's more emphasis on sustain as long as it doesnt make fights boring.
I have to disagree. I dislike regen builds myself, I prefer shorter fights.
But a regen build wins in the end if played right. I know a very famous Sorcerer who only has 1400 spell damage,32k Magicka and puts everything into stamina and Magicka regen and he wins.
Because he can outsustain everyone. As long as you can cast forever and as long as you can break each CC, there's nothing you have to fear. Regen builds are over the top in my opinion. But it's okay for me, because they sacrifise something you know ? Let players play the way the want, stop forcing your weird opinion and judgement on them (and I'm not talking to you Septimus you know i love you ). I could also add another opinion, but I will keep that one until the time has come and I'm sure it will during the pts time.
Haha true, but I think most players wont stick around long enough for such a regen build to profit. I might be overestimating the average eso player though. With the reduced damage in update 7 regen builds do even less damage so even when you cant CC break they dont do enough damage to burst you down. Hopefully this will make pure regen builds less viable because they lack damage.
Overall I would say effectively more health = longer fights so regen will be more important, Im curious to see how this turns out, fingers crossed.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »@RinaldoGandolphi I have to disagree, magicka regen builds dont do enough damage to be competative in my experience.
When I tried a build with 2k magicka regen, 1.9k spell dmg and 34k max magicka on my sorc, my spells were hitting like wet noodles. My cfrags were hitting for 6-8k which didnt scare or kill anyone. Every magicka build I fought had harness magicka and healing ward so unless they made huge mistages I couldnt kill them. Most stam builds have decent spell resist, can dodge/block/reflect my spells so they were hard to kill as well. Some fights just ended with me streaking away because i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill me. With low damage you only put a little pressure on your enemy, this makes it easier for them to sustain. With high damage they need to spam abilities to stay alive, putting their sustain to the test.
Regen builds might be good for staying alive or group play but thats about it. For small scale pvp high damage builds are superior because sustain isnt such a big issue, at least in current live pvp.
With the damage reduction on pts, regen builds will do even less damage and can only win by out-sustaining their enemy. I have not tested this myself on pts but I can imagine this makes fights really boring. High damage builds will have a harder time bursting down their enemy, this will put more strain on their sustain which is their weakness.
Im curious to see what balance between regen and damage works for magicka and stamina builds in update 7. I think its good there's more emphasis on sustain as long as it doesnt make fights boring.
I have to disagree. I dislike regen builds myself, I prefer shorter fights.
But a regen build wins in the end if played right. I know a very famous Sorcerer who only has 1400 spell damage,32k Magicka and puts everything into stamina and Magicka regen and he wins.
Because he can outsustain everyone. As long as you can cast forever and as long as you can break each CC, there's nothing you have to fear. Regen builds are over the top in my opinion. But it's okay for me, because they sacrifise something you know ? Let players play the way the want, stop forcing your weird opinion and judgement on them (and I'm not talking to you Septimus you know i love you ). I could also add another opinion, but I will keep that one until the time has come and I'm sure it will during the pts time.
Haha true, but I think most players wont stick around long enough for such a regen build to profit. I might be overestimating the average eso player though. With the reduced damage in update 7 regen builds do even less damage so even when you cant CC break they dont do enough damage to burst you down. Hopefully this will make pure regen builds less viable because they lack damage.
Overall I would say effectively more health = longer fights so regen will be more important, Im curious to see how this turns out, fingers crossed.
I feel like 1.7 is very similar to 1.5. And in 1.5, sustain and ressource management was more important.
Hope this turns out to be wrong
The problem with the shield mechanic in 1.7 in the first place is its the only defensive mechanic without a resource penalty.
Dodge and Block both got one...Shields did not
The problem with the shield mechanic in 1.7 in the first place is its the only defensive mechanic without a resource penalty.
Dodge and Block both got one...Shields did not
Because Dodges and Block make you immune to most CC or totally negate most damage entirely.
While shields take full damage and don't make immune to CC.
The problem with the shield mechanic in 1.7 in the first place is its the only defensive mechanic without a resource penalty.
Dodge and Block both got one...Shields did not
Because Dodges and Block make you immune to most CC or totally negate most damage entirely.
While shields take full damage and don't make immune to CC.
Dodge doesn't make you immune to most CC, neither does Block... Multiple CC's hit through both of them. same with damage.
In a game of resources, Shields wins out.
The problem with the shield mechanic in 1.7 in the first place is its the only defensive mechanic without a resource penalty.
Dodge and Block both got one...Shields did not
Because Dodges and Block make you immune to most CC or totally negate most damage entirely.
While shields take full damage and don't make immune to CC.
Dodge doesn't make you immune to most CC, neither does Block... Multiple CC's hit through both of them. same with damage.
In a game of resources, Shields wins out.
It basically does, as you totally evade most incoming damage. Block is only breakeable by fear and petrify or rune cage. I know, fear is very annyoing for blocking
If you ward yourself, you get hit by all CCs and all damage directed at you. If the damage is high enough, you have to recast over and over again. I know you've never played a Sorcerer but I myself go OOM very fast if I have to recast over and over again. Especially now, where they fixed Harness Magicka to not restore Magicka on ALL attacks anymore.
If you ward yourself, you get hit by all CCs and all damage directed at you.
coyteriarwb17_ESO wrote: »Guys anyone whos played a sorcerer would understand how drastic this Nerf is. Everyone who doesn't dedicate their time playing with sorcerer doesn't understand how big of an impact this is.
If you ward yourself, you get hit by all CCs and all damage directed at you.
There is one very important factor that should not be overlooked, namely that unlike all other forms of defense, shields continue to protect you even if you get CC-ed.
Blocking DK, rolling NB, healing templar - any of those, if i manage to CC while they are at 10% HP, they are dead.
But CC a 10% HP sorc who has healing ward and hardened ward on him, and you will never be able to put a dent in his remaining HP before he has chance to recover and bolt(or just recast those shields again).
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »coyteriarwb17_ESO wrote: »Guys anyone whos played a sorcerer would understand how drastic this Nerf is. Everyone who doesn't dedicate their time playing with sorcerer doesn't understand how big of an impact this is.
Don't worry, it's not set in stone, still might not happen. There have to be a couple of zos devs that play sorc. The way I see it sorcs shields make them strong against magicka builds but not against stamina builds. Imo they should buff the strength of individual shields but not allow us to stack them, therefore making us choose between Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka. Right now on live a 12k Hardened Ward is barely enough to fight a 2h weapon-damage-stacker, but a 12k Hardened Ward plus a 15k Dampen Magicka is overkill for fighting the magicka builds.
coyteriarwb17_ESO wrote: »Then this four second rule should be applied to healing, nightblides invisible, dks reflect. This four second rule shouldn't be applied to one class when no other class has it. Sorcerers have it enough with bolt escape having cast within four seconds stacks the 50%cost. Not fair at all.
Blocking and rolling isn't class specific. Shields are.Shields are immune to crits and damage-over-time effects.
If they didn't have damage-over-time and bleed immunity, they might not even be so much a problem.
Also, Critical Rush says it always crits, damage shields disagree.
If damage shields are going to keep crit and DOT immunity, they should increase in cost by 25% or something for every reapplication within four seconds. You could easily just rotate healing ward and empowered ward etc in this instance.
This game is supposed to be about resource management, yet they're only applying this to blocking and dodge rolling? A game with no cooldowns the drawbacks for repeated blocking and dodge rolling make sense, there should be something to all damage shields, no?
If you ward yourself, you get hit by all CCs and all damage directed at you.
There is one very important factor that should not be overlooked, namely that unlike all other forms of defense, shields continue to protect you even if you get CC-ed.
Blocking DK, rolling NB, healing templar - any of those, if i manage to CC while they are at 10% HP, they are dead.
But CC a 10% HP sorc who has healing ward and hardened ward on him, and you will never be able to put a dent in his remaining HP before he has chance to recover and bolt(or just recast those shields again).
Yup. On top of that, shields are immune/prevent-
All Crits
A lot of spell effects
Most 5 piece offensive set procs
Bleeds/poison
It's just too much imo.
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »coyteriarwb17_ESO wrote: »Then this four second rule should be applied to healing, nightblides invisible, dks reflect. This four second rule shouldn't be applied to one class when no other class has it. Sorcerers have it enough with bolt escape having cast within four seconds stacks the 50%cost. Not fair at all.
While I'm not happy about the nerf to BE, your's is the wrong attitude, with all due respect. Balance isn't about everyone having comparable skills, it's about skills/mechanics having viable counters. BE has had a 4 second cooldown since about June 2014, this isn't the issue. Dodge roll has now been given the same treatment. DKs reflect was nerfed from infinite projectiles to 4 projectiles.
The element of fun in pvp is dependent on people feeling unique and powerful, uniquely powerful. As I saw someone else say in a similar post; people need to feel overpowered, to feel like they just wrecked that guy with skills that they chose and learned how to use. If you can only distinguish between the classes by the colour of their particle effects then things would be so boring.
infracanisub17_ESO wrote: »As someone said a few pages ago, Hardened Ward isn't really the problem. The real problem shield is Healing Ward.
Every other shield protects from damage but if you are good player, it only delays the inevitable.
Healing Ward on the other hand, can completely reset a fight in short time.
Is Healing Ward really strong for all classes? Yes. It can make a good magicka Nightblade very strong. Same for DKs and Templars too.
The main advantage a Sorcerer gets using Healing Ward is when it is paired with the mobility from Streak. Because other classes (besides Nightblades which have other weaknesses) are limited in mobility.
I can burst down a 15-20k healing ward if I have to, easy if using an execute, but not when the target can flee to line of sight or even escape out of charge range within seconds.
This combination of Healing Ward+Mobility is the real reason why people QQ about Sorcerers.
The problem with the shield mechanic in 1.7 in the first place is its the only defensive mechanic without a resource penalty.
Dodge and Block both got one...Shields did not
Because Dodges and Block make you immune to most CC or totally negate most damage entirely.
While shields take full damage and don't make immune to CC.
Dodge doesn't make you immune to most CC, neither does Block... Multiple CC's hit through both of them. same with damage.
In a game of resources, Shields wins out.
ItsRejectz wrote: »Have you people actually played PTS? Shields are perfect now. If they make them critable on top of how they are now, you might aswel be wrapped in fresh air
ItsRejectz wrote: »Have you people actually played PTS? Shields are perfect now. If they make them critable on top of how they are now, you might aswel be wrapped in fresh air
Have you played against someone with shieldbreaker? I´d not call that perfect.
ItsRejectz wrote: »ItsRejectz wrote: »Have you people actually played PTS? Shields are perfect now. If they make them critable on top of how they are now, you might aswel be wrapped in fresh air
Have you played against someone with shieldbreaker? I´d not call that perfect.
Not going to lie man, I haven't played against anyone with it yet. I'm guessing it's pretty effective?
ItsRejectz wrote: »ItsRejectz wrote: »Have you people actually played PTS? Shields are perfect now. If they make them critable on top of how they are now, you might aswel be wrapped in fresh air
Have you played against someone with shieldbreaker? I´d not call that perfect.
Not going to lie man, I haven't played against anyone with it yet. I'm guessing it's pretty effective?
It´s op as hell. Makes me think stamina sorc or a magica build that does not use any absorbshield at all.