The Scalebreaker DLC game pack and Update 23 base-game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Shields are getting changed to be critted

  • Diamond_10
    Diamond_10
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    incoming 30k crits against zero mitigation
    ZoS, want a hammer to finish nailing that coffin?
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Dracane wrote: »
    I'm so tired of this qqing about Hardened Ward scaling of Magicka. That's the very idea of it and is good as it is.
    Seriously, are you people not able to understand ? Or can't you understand ?

    Sorcerer is meant to be a magicka based class. Each class offers different playstyles. Hardened Ward is meant for a Magicka playstyle, but there are Sorcerer builds without Hardened Ward.
    A Templars shield is meant for tanks, who have high health and HIGHLY benefit from their health based shield (same goes for DK) And blazing shield also increases the damage based on its strenght. So dont tell me, Templars dont benefit from being tanky and having damage either.

    But if you play a Templar Healer, you aren't even supposed to have this strong shield, because you have insane burst heals. Having both, strong heals AND a strong shield is OP and shouldn't be possible. A Dragonknight could have might shields, when he uses healing ward, Harness and his class shield, combined with a strong self heal that gets boosted by his shield. And a DK, can reach muuuuch higher damage output than a Sorcerer. Get creative and come out of your bubble

    And now finally come to recognize this and get the very idea of classes, until you start talking about this nonsense. And thanks for qqing, so that any diversity in this game gets destroyed, thanks to you not willing to learn and adapt. Thank you

    Says the most biased person in this gaMecand plays one class
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Tankqull wrote: »
    Laggus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    I'm so tired of this qqing about Hardened Ward scaling of Magicka. That's the very idea of it and is good as it is.
    Seriously, are you people not able to understand ? Or can't you understand ?

    Sorcerer is meant to be a magicka based class. Each class offers different playstyles. Hardened Ward is meant for a Magicka playstyle, but there are Sorcerer builds without Hardened Ward.
    A Templars shield is meant for tanks, who have high health and HIGHLY benefit from their health based shield (same goes for DK) And blazing shield also increases the damage based on its strenght. So dont tell me, Templars dont benefit from being tanky and having damage either.

    But if you play a Templar Healer, you aren't even supposed to have this strong shield, because you have insane burst heals. Having both, strong heals AND a strong shield is OP and shouldn't be possible. A Dragonknight could have might shields, when he uses healing ward, Harness and his class shield, combined with a strong self heal that gets boosted by his shield. And a DK, can reach muuuuch higher damage output than a Sorcerer. Get creative and come out of your bubble

    And now finally come to recognize this and get the very idea of classes, until you start talking about this nonsense. And thanks for qqing, so that any diversity in this game gets destroyed, thanks to you not willing to learn and adapt. Thank you

    Theres an argument in there somewhere if DKs and Templars shields would not be critted but they will be, the same as Sorcs. Fact remains Sorcs will still have the best shields, can still spam them and still have their escape skill, albeit used less often in a row now. Comparing classes in this way is nonsense. How many DKs do you see using Healing Ward AND Harness AND their class shield. Yes they could have them but they would not be able to kill much.

    Lets see what PTS is like when the change is implemented.

    so magica dks who have less dmg abilities slotted than sorcs valuing their own utility tools more valuable than shields complain that sorcs shieldstack while they refuse to the same - do i get your statement right?

    Wrong. Let me talk slowly.

    We can do the same but wouldn't have the same damage output. If we are suppose to be tanky we need to put more into health which our shields scale off. Then we will kill nothing. Oh and can't block Anything because that is now nerfed because you all get mad we don't die fast enough

    If we go magic a like you, our class shield as you say will be 4k. See the difference? Would you use that? All sorc's arguments could be made for the other classes as well. Let us stack one stat and get both benefits as well

    Or let our class be what it's suppose to be and tank. Yes Permablocking is tanking. We don't kill crap. How many duels do you see dk's winning on you tube. NONE. You all cried nerf over and over

    Now literally the last thing we have left, is a problem? WHY?

    By your own argument sir you they are killing our utility both in PVE and PVP.
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    iTzStevey wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get

    To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too

    Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent

    Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now

    Sorcs with 25k+ damage shields? What game are you playing? XD the most ive seen hardened ward get to is 15k, now theres a 50% nerf to all shields in pvp, so 7.5k shield. Thats nothing in pvp when people can hit 2k on light attacks, 10k snipes,12k radiant destruction,10k concealed weapon ect. I dont think the problems we're facing is with the classes. But the CHAMPION SYSTEM. the ONLY people that can get anywhere near 25k in shields is someoneone with TONNES of CP. And those are the people that get complained about when people scurry over to the forums to cry for nerfs.

    Don't even talk about annulment, it's available to everyone and only protects you from spells.

    Serously? What game you playing. Pay attention when you target people. Lol. Yes 25k shields is the normal now. You just admitted what i said. 15k hardened ward is a problem. Not in itself but when you get the offensive boost and ability to spam escape and recast your shields, because it all scales off one stat, is the problem


    Since you don't play a DK and just want to talk crap, let me further explain the difference. If I play a magic a dk and since i no longer can be tanky with this next patch, if I dump all my stats into magicka I will get to about 33k magician and 2000 ish buffed spell power


    You know what my class shield will be? 4k. Lol

    Now do you see the difference?


    You can't have it both ways. Let us be like you and scale our shields off our main stat as well, or leave our "Permablocking" cause that's a problem, not, alone.

    You can't have it both ways oh all mighty master class
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    ON live when i fight good sorcs i always burst them down to 15%Hp and then they pop healward and hardward...cant touch them dadada.

    Bad sorcs is another story

    on pts tho i was able to kill mages easier due to stam reg and roll nerf haha
    but those were prolly nabs.

    Also heard stories of sorcs stacking shields like pros on pts unkillable.
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  • Springt-Über-Zwerge
    Springt-Über-Zwerge
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    I never got why you couldn't crit on them in the first place?
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  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    I never got why you couldn't crit on them in the first place?

    +
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  • Snit
    Snit
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    Maybe ZOS will fix the Healing Ward bug, then reassess shield strength before simply nerfing them all again.

    Maybe.
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  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
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    Shields should be crit'd through.

    Of course, they should also take into consideration defensive stats and block.

    Also a stamina scaling hardened ward would be nice for us squishy stamina sorc types.
    Pvp will never balance in a sufficient feeling manner for the player base, until the player base stops viewing it as a pve farming activity.
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
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    Problem with the squishy caster meta, is that it doesn't work in this game since everything and everybody has gap closers.. so the typical squishy caster play of keeping your range and kiting / repositioning just doesn't work in this game as everybody has access to gap closers that have at least the same if not larger ranger than your nukes.
  • Domander
    Domander
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    jpalm1995 wrote: »
    I love all the QQ from sorcerers. If you don't want your shields to be critable then you shouldn't want your frags to crit for 17k

    My shields dont crit when I cast them, damage and heals can crit so why cant shields crit? My 45-50% is completely ignored while I have to defend myself, except for the healing ward heal.

    Dont forget that all magicka builds use harness magicka and/or healing ward. So all magicka builds get nerfed in comparison to stam builds, especially stam NBs which have a ton of crit and burst damage.

    The problem with crits on shields is that shield dont have any mitigation, unmitigated crit damage will very high so the shield value have to be increased accordingly. This will punish builds with low crit and benefit builds with high crit. So tanky builds will have more trouble killing magicka builds and stam burst builds (ie gankers) will have an easier time killing magicka builds. This is the exact opposite of what is needed atm.


    All stam abilities are now also cheaper on cost.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Docmandu wrote: »
    Problem with the squishy caster meta, is that it doesn't work in this game since everything and everybody has gap closers.. so the typical squishy caster play of keeping your range and kiting / repositioning just doesn't work in this game as everybody has access to gap closers that have at least the same if not larger ranger than your nukes.

    Agree. Keeping distance is as good as impossible in this game, while casters are squishy in other games, they can keep enemies at distance.

    Sure there are tools in TESO. But it doesn't really work and gap closer range is waaay to far from my point of view.
    That's why casters need stronger defense to sustain.
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  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
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    43DfMEj.gif
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  • Kloud
    Kloud
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    What's the huge issue here nbs can't Perma roll dodge anymore dks can't perms block anymore and sorcs can still shields stack just easier to get it down and it should be that way if your shield gets tore down just put it back up ffs. It's a great change and should of always been this way what's the point of having crit if it's worthless again Perma shield stacking sorcs.....
  • Hiero_Glyph
    Hiero_Glyph
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    Kloud wrote: »
    What's the huge issue here nbs can't Perma roll dodge anymore dks can't perms block anymore and sorcs can still shields stack just easier to get it down and it should be that way if your shield gets tore down just put it back up ffs. It's a great change and should of always been this way what's the point of having crit if it's worthless again Perma shield stacking sorcs.....

    The problem isn't with criting on shields, it's that any remaining damage applied after the shield is removed becomes unmitigated and ignores armor and resistance. You could be wearing full heavy armor and still take 10k overflow damage. Also, shields can't crit themselves so it's a double standard.

    A better solution is to make all damage shields scale off of health. This encourages hybrid builds and benefits tank builds the most.
  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
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    Dracane wrote: »
    I'm so tired of this qqing about Hardened Ward scaling of Magicka. That's the very idea of it and is good as it is.
    Seriously, are you people not able to understand ? Or can't you understand ?

    Sorcerer is meant to be a magicka based class. Each class offers different playstyles. Hardened Ward is meant for a Magicka playstyle, but there are Sorcerer builds without Hardened Ward.
    A Templars shield is meant for tanks, who have high health and HIGHLY benefit from their health based shield (same goes for DK) And blazing shield also increases the damage based on its strenght. So dont tell me, Templars dont benefit from being tanky and having damage either.

    But if you play a Templar Healer, you aren't even supposed to have this strong shield, because you have insane burst heals. Having both, strong heals AND a strong shield is OP and shouldn't be possible. A Dragonknight could have might shields, when he uses healing ward, Harness and his class shield, combined with a strong self heal that gets boosted by his shield. And a DK, can reach muuuuch higher damage output than a Sorcerer. Get creative and come out of your bubble

    And now finally come to recognize this and get the very idea of classes, until you start talking about this nonsense. And thanks for qqing, so that any diversity in this game gets destroyed, thanks to you not willing to learn and adapt. Thank you

    Thats a great way to end a long post defending broken magicka sorc shield stacking.
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Kloud wrote: »
    What's the huge issue here nbs can't Perma roll dodge anymore dks can't perms block anymore and sorcs can still shields stack just easier to get it down and it should be that way if your shield gets tore down just put it back up ffs. It's a great change and should of always been this way what's the point of having crit if it's worthless again Perma shield stacking sorcs.....

    The problem isn't with criting on shields, it's that any remaining damage applied after the shield is removed becomes unmitigated and ignores armor and resistance. You could be wearing full heavy armor and still take 10k overflow damage. Also, shields can't crit themselves so it's a double standard.

    A better solution is to make all damage shields scale off of health. This encourages hybrid builds and benefits tank builds the most.

    This. Couldn't agree more. That is called fairness and balance
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    Darnathian wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.

    What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.

    Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.

    And is it not an almost solely made class for a caster? Which is why the ward scales off of magicka. Just like the tankier classes get a shield that scales off of their health. Give me a reflect, a self-heal, ultimate that restores my stats, and then take away my ward.

    You people are ridiculous.

    Dude. Just stop. You call us the tankier class yet all sorc's and nb's complained about us blocking all your damn damage all the time but failing to kill you. But now we can be tanks because it suits your argument.

    Let's fast forward one month from now. Half the posts will be gone. It will only be nb's and sorc's calling for nerfs on each other. Because all us dk's and Templars will be gone from this game. Enjoy

    Okay "dude", since you're under the assumption that all people on these forums are males without a lick of efficient speech for debates.

    I play DK and Templar, obviously in my signature that can be seen. I never one time complained about Templars or Dragonknights; in fact, many of my posts state reasons as to why those classes should be left be, and also state my sympathy for the Templar class being ignored 99% of the time. So do not insinuate that I'm a clueless and mindless individual who sees no sense in anything at all and is a die-hard only Sorcerer just because it fits your description of someone who you should absolutely despise and argue with. I'm not asking for nerfs on any classes, because they are ALL able to be dealt with on any class in PvP. I'd rather anything under-performing in ANY class get a buff to balance out what may be considered OP for other classes. And instead of screaming out for nerfs to anything and everything you have issues with get out of your bubble, adjust your build, and move on. You're sitting here complaining because DK is not the win-all class anymore, and you have a hard time against a caster build. How funny, you have a reflect, use it. You have an option to have a gap closer, use them. You have the option to shield stack, use that as well. You also have the option to dish out immense damage, so do it. Instead of all your qqing on every section of these forums, why don't you take some time and really, really think out a nice build for yourself that's going to solve your problems. Or just accept that maybe you just haven't learned how to handle classes that can get out of melee range, I really don't know know what else to tell you. Instead of crying for nerfs every chance you get, how about you analyze your class, and offer suggestions in the forums, in a positive manner, that are reasonable to perhaps improve it. There are plenty of people who don't go around spreading misinformation about classes they don't play, who take the time to elaborate on what they feel is and isn't lackluster in their main class and offer healthy discussions and suggestions to the Devs and the community. And then there are people like you who post about what displeases them in other classes. You're so tunnel-visioned by your hatred and inability to handle sorcerers that it's saddening.
    Edited by DisgracefulMind on August 3, 2015 4:36AM
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  • TheBonesXXX
    TheBonesXXX
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    The logic on this thread about four different hero archetypes and how to apply class mechanics to them equally breaks my brain.

    Really, it does.

    Magician, Lover, Warrior, and Thief. None of which are remotely the same.

    Sorcerer, Templar, Dragonknight, and Nightblade, none of which remotely are the same. The cool thing about ESO is it offers you a chance to add secondary elements from other archetypes to customize your character the way you want to, to losely fit the role of Tank, DPS, or Healer and "Hybrid".

    I quote Hybrid because hybriding is not a viable option yet do to the purist/hybrid debacle.

    To tie this into this post,

    You can't have your cake and eat it to. The thought of tanking while delivering some of the best burst in the game while being able to retain the ability to enter and exit combat at your very whim is your problem, you've been spoiled and no one else has got a bone, yet many will still crusade saying their class only has "one way" of doing thing as if the rest of us also do not play that class.

    You have burst, you need to move in a calculated manner to best provide your burst. That's the Magician, from DnD table top till now, you are primary DPS and secondary CC with some mobility.

    You don't get the change the entire archetype of story telling for your own amusement.

    While most of my focus is directed at a few crusading Sorcs who are just entirely selfish, this applies to the lot of all people who are actually interested in class balance and not just blatantly lying about it and being self serving in their own interests.

    Meta's are in for a reason, because they're beyond viable, they're just plain bloody easy.
    Warning:Incoming sarcasm and sardonicism.

    PvP just doesn't have one playstyle.
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Darnathian wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.

    What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.

    Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.

    And is it not an almost solely made class for a caster? Which is why the ward scales off of magicka. Just like the tankier classes get a shield that scales off of their health. Give me a reflect, a self-heal, ultimate that restores my stats, and then take away my ward.

    You people are ridiculous.

    Dude. Just stop. You call us the tankier class yet all sorc's and nb's complained about us blocking all your damn damage all the time but failing to kill you. But now we can be tanks because it suits your argument.

    Let's fast forward one month from now. Half the posts will be gone. It will only be nb's and sorc's calling for nerfs on each other. Because all us dk's and Templars will be gone from this game. Enjoy

    Okay "dude", since you're under the assumption that all people on these forums are males without a lick of efficient speech for debates.

    I play DK and Templar, obviously in my signature that can be seen. I never one time complained about Templars or Dragonknights; in fact, many of my posts state reasons as to why those classes should be left be, and also state my sympathy for the Templar class being ignored 99% of the time. So do not insinuate that I'm a clueless and mindless individual who sees no sense in anything at all and is a die-hard only Sorcerer just because it fits your description of someone who you should absolutely despise and argue with. I'm not asking for nerfs on any classes, because they are ALL able to be dealt with on any class in PvP. I'd rather anything under-performing in ANY class get a buff to balance out what may be considered OP for other classes. And instead of screaming out for nerfs to anything and everything you have issues with get out of your bubble, adjust your build, and move on. You're sitting here complaining because DK is not the win-all class anymore, and you have a hard time against a caster build. How funny, you have a reflect, use it. You have an option to have a gap closer, use them. You have the option to shield stack, use that as well. You also have the option to dish out immense damage, so do it. Instead of all your qqing on every section of these forums, why don't you take some time and really, really think out a nice build for yourself that's going to solve your problems. Or just accept that maybe you just haven't learned how to handle classes that can get out of melee range, I really don't know know what else to tell you. Instead of crying for nerfs every chance you get, how about you analyze your class, and offer suggestions in the forums, in a positive manner, that are reasonable to perhaps improve it. There are plenty of people who don't go around spreading misinformation about classes they don't play, who take the time to elaborate on what they feel is and isn't lackluster in their main class and offer healthy discussions and suggestions to the Devs and the community. And then there are people like you who post about what displeases them in other classes. You're so tunnel-visioned by your hatred and inability to handle sorcerers that it's saddening.

    Umm.... Paragraphs?

    I have explained. It's not just me. Many agree sorc shield stacking off magicka is rediculous. I don't miss the old dk days either. Read my posts. Did I say buff dk's anywhere? Thought not.

    I asked for fairness. Stack the damn shield off healthier everyone else. If I come across mad then sorry. Getting tea bagged by groups of sorc's is getting old.
  • Zsymon
    Zsymon
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    The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.

    They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.
    Edited by Zsymon on August 3, 2015 8:42AM
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Okay "dude", since you're under the assumption that all people on these forums are males without a lick of efficient speech for debates.

    Oh honey. Off topic, but I had to laugh so hard on this :) I feel your pain.
    Don't know how often I have to face this problem myself. There are more females than people might think.
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  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Here's a thought ~ a third monkey wrench thrown into the mix:
    • Remove all scaling based off stat pools and base it off the weapon in your hand and the level (have to go way beyond '4') of the skill.
    • Your stat pools should be just that - dictating the number of times you can produce an effect that requires part of that pool. (If my stamina is higher, I can hold a bow a full draw longer, but doing so does not make it hit harder or fly farther.)

    They had it right in the standalone games - 0 to 100 on any skill - the more you use it, the stronger it became. Add the other damn stats that had effect on things: Things like strength, athletics, intelligence. Make people make tradeoffs for having points in one but not the other.

    To everyone all about being able to crit shields, which primarily supplement light armor users (which is a necessity for Sorcs, in most cases), how do you feel about giving up your Spell Resist that you get free 1:1 with Armor now?

    Let's be reasonable. One end of the spectrum should benefit physical resistance, the other arcane. Right now you get the best of both + generally 50%-100% more weapon damage than Spell damage can come close to. How about a % chance for your infini-reflects to fail, eh?

    This BS of infinite survivability never seems to factor in zero DPS in these kinds of circumstances. If all you're doing is shielding, you are not doing damage.

    If we're really gonna balance things, let's balance things.

    My guess is you're not willing to give up any of that.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Hiero_Glyph
    Hiero_Glyph
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.

    They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.

    Ugh, not every Templar or DK is a tank just as not every Sorc is a magicka build. The only fair way to balance damage shields is to make them all universally scale off of health. This means that to increase shield strength you actually need to increase your survivability. Hybrid and tank builds would then have more defense than magicka and stamina builds designed for offense. It's balanced because it's a global change and not targeted at Sorc only, although they won't be able to boost just one stat to increase their offense, defense, and sustain any more.
    Edited by Hiero_Glyph on August 3, 2015 5:13PM
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.

    They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.

    I agree. If we are tank classes then why take away stamina regen while we are tanking?
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.

    They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.

    Ugh, not very Templar or DK is a tank just as not every Sorc is a magicka build. The only fair way to balance damage shields is to make them all universally scale off of health. This means that to increase shield strength you actually need to increase your survivability. Hybrid and tank builds would then have more defense than magicka and stamina builds designed for offense. It's balanced because it's a global change and not targeted at Sorc only, although they won't be able to boost just one stat to increase their offense, defense, and sustain any more.

    I don't blame them. All classes defend their own till the end. But facts are facts. Sorc's have zero weaknesses right now if played correctly. Nerfing overall damages and shields does nothing.

    That is not the root of the problem.

    By their logic then if we choose to tank, then our shield should scale of stamina. But no they will say that will be OP.
  • AssaultLemming
    AssaultLemming
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    My Khajit Nb is happy. My Altmer sorc is sad.

    This being said I think this change is necessary, but to be fair shields should be able to be crit cast.

    Shields should scale off the highest stat.

    Damage overflow once shields are depleted should be subject to the characters mitigation.
    Edited by AssaultLemming on August 4, 2015 3:19AM
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    The only problem with Shields is the same problem with everything in this game right now:

    Infinite Resource Builds...its possible to make builds with 3.5 to 4 k regen of stamina or magic, while still being able to get enough weapon/spell daamge to be competitive.

    in doing so folks cna spam shields, dodge roll, or whatever elese annoys you to their hearts content without ever running out of resources.

    this is the root of the damage shield problem yet ZOS keeps treating symptoms(nerfing shields, nerfing bolt escape, etc)

    We will be back to another nerf thread soon for this reason, they will probably gut the game before they finally realize this was the only simple fix needed, simply making spamming any skill infinitely not viable and problem solved. You do that by putting soft and hard caps back in the game via Battle Spirit instead of nerfing shields that will reallydo nothing to address the core issues with PVP.

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  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    @RinaldoGandolphi I have to disagree, magicka regen builds dont do enough damage to be competative in my experience.

    When I tried a build with 2k magicka regen, 1.9k spell dmg and 34k max magicka on my sorc, my spells were hitting like wet noodles. My cfrags were hitting for 6-8k which didnt scare or kill anyone. Every magicka build I fought had harness magicka and healing ward so unless they made huge mistages I couldnt kill them. Most stam builds have decent spell resist, can dodge/block/reflect my spells so they were hard to kill as well. Some fights just ended with me streaking away because i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill me. With low damage you only put a little pressure on your enemy, this makes it easier for them to sustain. With high damage they need to spam abilities to stay alive, putting their sustain to the test.

    Regen builds might be good for staying alive or group play but thats about it. For small scale pvp high damage builds are superior because sustain isnt such a big issue, at least in current live pvp.

    With the damage reduction on pts, regen builds will do even less damage and can only win by out-sustaining their enemy. I have not tested this myself on pts but I can imagine this makes fights really boring. High damage builds will have a harder time bursting down their enemy, this will put more strain on their sustain which is their weakness.

    Im curious to see what balance between regen and damage works for magicka and stamina builds in update 7. I think its good there's more emphasis on sustain as long as it doesnt make fights boring.
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  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    @RinaldoGandolphi I have to disagree, magicka regen builds dont do enough damage to be competative in my experience.

    When I tried a build with 2k magicka regen, 1.9k spell dmg and 34k max magicka on my sorc, my spells were hitting like wet noodles. My cfrags were hitting for 6-8k which didnt scare or kill anyone. Every magicka build I fought had harness magicka and healing ward so unless they made huge mistages I couldnt kill them. Most stam builds have decent spell resist, can dodge/block/reflect my spells so they were hard to kill as well. Some fights just ended with me streaking away because i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill me. With low damage you only put a little pressure on your enemy, this makes it easier for them to sustain. With high damage they need to spam abilities to stay alive, putting their sustain to the test.

    Regen builds might be good for staying alive or group play but thats about it. For small scale pvp high damage builds are superior because sustain isnt such a big issue, at least in current live pvp.

    With the damage reduction on pts, regen builds will do even less damage and can only win by out-sustaining their enemy. I have not tested this myself on pts but I can imagine this makes fights really boring. High damage builds will have a harder time bursting down their enemy, this will put more strain on their sustain which is their weakness.

    Im curious to see what balance between regen and damage works for magicka and stamina builds in update 7. I think its good there's more emphasis on sustain as long as it doesnt make fights boring.

    I have to disagree. I dislike regen builds myself, I prefer shorter fights.
    But a regen build wins in the end if played right. I know a very famous Sorcerer who only has 1400 spell damage,32k Magicka and puts everything into stamina and Magicka regen and he wins.

    Because he can outsustain everyone. As long as you can cast forever and as long as you can break each CC, there's nothing you have to fear. Regen builds are over the top in my opinion. But it's okay for me, because they sacrifise something you know ? Let players play the way the want, stop forcing your weird opinion and judgement on them (and I'm not talking to you Septimus <3 you know i love you ). I could also add another opinion, but I will keep that one until the time has come and I'm sure it will during the pts time.
    Edited by Dracane on August 4, 2015 9:23AM
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