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Shields are getting changed to be critted

  • strikeback1247
    strikeback1247
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    I'm a Khajiit Nightblade

    *grabs popcorn*
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.

    What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.

    Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.
  • Baragorath
    Baragorath
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    OtarTheMad wrote: »
    All they are doing is hurting the all light armor magicka playstyle by doing this and destroying escape mechanics. Don't get me wrong, I get why they have to do this but when all is said and done and shields are nerfed to Oblivion all you'll see are heavy armor mages just so they can survive in a fight.

    Then they will go with line to other classes and become battle mages.
    Xeniph wrote: »

    This change is a LONG time coming, and if you actually look back objectively, everyone knows it.

    Then all mmo game web sites will speak only about them as so many ppls on our community are complaining about sorc GOD mode and Zenimax would do nothing????

    Remember they trying to get rid of bad reputation they received last year and to do nothing in period longer then half year with god killing machines is crazy.

    Still my champagne cooling down in refrigerator to be open on 31.08.2015.
    Edited by Baragorath on August 1, 2015 8:26PM
    Baragorath - Proud Nord - Dragon Knight - Former Emperor - AR40
    One-Who-Crushes-Mountains - Argonian - Templar - AR8
    Grotarg Delan - Dunmer - Nightblade - AR6
    Avosaris - High Elf - Sorcerer - AR6

    Squishy Tomatoes - Pact Support Group - July 2016 - up to date

    Decimation Elite - Field Marshal - December 2014 - May 2016

    Gave up on Banana Squad members math skills - March 2016
  • FriedEggSandwich
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    Tankqull wrote: »
    Solanum wrote: »
    I believe sorcerers are once again blowing the nerfs severely out of proportion. Just like they did last patch.

    Take into account that blocking will be nerfed, as well as dodgerolling.

    Also, allowing shields to crit themselves, increasing their absorption capabilities seems like a rather poor idea unless this is somehow restricted, like heals are by the limit of ones healthpool.

    well just from my perspective - my hihgest pvp hits sofar were between 22-30k dmg with WB, snipe heavy attacks on my DK, adding a 30% dmg decrease to those values a fully shielded sorc [edit: or better any light armor wearer relying on shields] is a twohit without any chance to react thx to my 80+% crit rates with a potion ...
    if they do not apply significant mitigation to shields sorcs become nothing but freefrags.

    This ^^. Not playing PTS so am clueless to the emerging meta, but currently on live my Hardened Ward is 12k with 52 CP in the Bastion and 31k magicka. This is not much really, in all honesty, plenty of skills hit for 12k+ base damage, removing the shield in one go. Pointless mentioning Dampen Magicka cos the hardest hitting foes I encounter are 2h stam user. Their skills will easily chomp through my 12k shield and most of my 18.8k hp in 2 very quickly strung together hits. "But your shields are spammable" you say. Why yes, you're right, but try spamming your shield when you're breaking out of fear/fossilise/spear only to be knocked up into the air immediately by uppercut, having to break out again and being left with no stamina. 5 second immunity my arse. Not crying about stam users, I'm fine with hard hitting moves, and cc, but if I spend 33% of my stamina breaking cc I want some damn immunity, preferably before my shields are nerfed. Fix bugs please zos! You know the overload bug is still active on pts??
    PC | EU
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get

    To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too

    Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent

    Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now

    On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!

    Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.

    Misinformation doesn't help anyone.

    You dodged. Dry carefully what i said in the first paragraph. Let's try this again

    Does that OP shield on you DK make him stronger offensively? No it does not. That's what should have changed. It should scale off health like every else. Sorc's defended that to the death. Then this is where we are now. Should have took the fair change

    Yes yes and now stop being blind. Everyone knows, DK has the best DPS. Have you ever faced a dual wield DK spamming whip and his other things in Cyrodiil ? They tear you up within seconds. No shield spam or block will help you against that.

    A friend of mine gets accused of being a cheater, because his damage is THAT nasty. Dragonknights destroy things in Cyrodiil. problem is, most DKs play as tanks. So you can't expect that from them

    I can safely say I've never faced a dual wield flame lash spamming dk simply because it's one of the worst setups in the game, you lack a charge and if you choose to have a ranged magicka weapon you will not have a charge, if ya choose a charge you'll have no range to speak of.

    The reason dual wield works good on classes like nb, sorc, and Templar is they have mobility plus range

    What Templar mobility are you talking about? Like, what? Seriously, more and more you show how much you DON'T know about any class.

    When i'm talking about Mobility, i'm talking about a Class based Charge, like Toppling Charge in this regards.

    DK's don't have anything like that..so its hard to run a DW based melee class if you can't get close to the target.

    If you want to spat with me more we can...you will not like it.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    For those wanting Shields to take on Mitigation.

    I'll tell you why that won't happen.

    Because some of the people working at ZOS, worked on Warhammer Online

    and in that game....

    you had this class

    Swordmaster_ss.jpg
  • Kater_Murr
    Kater_Murr
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    ...
    Edited by Kater_Murr on December 9, 2015 7:48PM
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Kater_Murr wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    When i'm talking about Mobility, i'm talking about a Class based Charge, like Toppling Charge in this regards. DK's don't have anything like that..

    Wow, so you don't have a clue even about the class you are playing? What happened to Dragon Leap and it's morphs?

    Wait...did you just try and compare an Ultimate to class based Charges?

    You do realize how ultimates work right?

    Oh not to mention Dragon Leap is absolutely atrocious for catching people running away (Its super great if you're next to the target or against stationary people)
    Edited by Xsorus on August 1, 2015 10:53PM
  • Kater_Murr
    Kater_Murr
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    ...
    Edited by Kater_Murr on December 9, 2015 7:47PM
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Kater_Murr wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Kater_Murr wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    When i'm talking about Mobility, i'm talking about a Class based Charge, like Toppling Charge in this regards. DK's don't have anything like that..

    Wow, so you don't have a clue even about the class you are playing? What happened to Dragon Leap and it's morphs?

    Wait...did you just try and compare an Ultimate to class based Charges?

    You do realize how ultimates work right?

    So, charge-type ultimate isn't a charge, then? That explains a lot.

    Do you need an explanation on why an Ultimate Charge is not a viable Charge Mechanic for a class?

  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get

    To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too

    Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent

    Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now

    On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!

    Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.

    Misinformation doesn't help anyone.

    You dodged. Dry carefully what i said in the first paragraph. Let's try this again

    Does that OP shield on you DK make him stronger offensively? No it does not. That's what should have changed. It should scale off health like every else. Sorc's defended that to the death. Then this is where we are now. Should have took the fair change

    Yes yes and now stop being blind. Everyone knows, DK has the best DPS. Have you ever faced a dual wield DK spamming whip and his other things in Cyrodiil ? They tear you up within seconds. No shield spam or block will help you against that.

    A friend of mine gets accused of being a cheater, because his damage is THAT nasty. Dragonknights destroy things in Cyrodiil. problem is, most DKs play as tanks. So you can't expect that from them

    I can safely say I've never faced a dual wield flame lash spamming dk simply because it's one of the worst setups in the game, you lack a charge and if you choose to have a ranged magicka weapon you will not have a charge, if ya choose a charge you'll have no range to speak of.

    The reason dual wield works good on classes like nb, sorc, and Templar is they have mobility plus range

    What Templar mobility are you talking about? Like, what? Seriously, more and more you show how much you DON'T know about any class.

    When i'm talking about Mobility, i'm talking about a Class based Charge, like Toppling Charge in this regards.

    DK's don't have anything like that..so its hard to run a DW based melee class if you can't get close to the target.

    If you want to spat with me more we can...you will not like it.

    You mean the toppling charge which is still bugged to hell but constantly ignored?

    I don't think a DK should be complaining about mobility. Do you not have some of the best ways to mitigate damage int he game? Ultimates that restore stats? A reflect + a decent class shield, whether you like it or not.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • ZoM_Head
    ZoM_Head
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    Satiar wrote: »
    Shields insanely OP on PTS. So much combining, but this is needed.

    Yeah the storngest one of them bugges... and my sorc shield is not that powerful. You guys can tell me maybe how I should win againt a scale spamming DK or an self healing Temp, or a allways doging NB, without my only Def?...

    It is so ridiculous... I hope shields could at least crit as well...

    2% health used dragon blood for 3.6K heals....

    Very survivable, especially compared to healing ward, and costs less too!
    mDKs still need a lot of love!
  • bosmern_ESO
    bosmern_ESO
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    Zos made it so you can crit shields, this is trying to nerf Sorcs shields but in reality, all other classes damage shields are rendered even more useless. Do they even think about other classes?

    ZoS just dug Blazing shield out of its grave, they stole its jewelry and took a crap on it, then threw it into an 8 foot grave, filled it with oil and lit it ablaze.
    Edited by bosmern_ESO on August 2, 2015 12:08AM
    ~Thallen~
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get

    To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too

    Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent

    Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now

    On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!

    Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.

    Misinformation doesn't help anyone.

    You dodged. Dry carefully what i said in the first paragraph. Let's try this again

    Does that OP shield on you DK make him stronger offensively? No it does not. That's what should have changed. It should scale off health like every else. Sorc's defended that to the death. Then this is where we are now. Should have took the fair change

    Yes yes and now stop being blind. Everyone knows, DK has the best DPS. Have you ever faced a dual wield DK spamming whip and his other things in Cyrodiil ? They tear you up within seconds. No shield spam or block will help you against that.

    A friend of mine gets accused of being a cheater, because his damage is THAT nasty. Dragonknights destroy things in Cyrodiil. problem is, most DKs play as tanks. So you can't expect that from them

    I can safely say I've never faced a dual wield flame lash spamming dk simply because it's one of the worst setups in the game, you lack a charge and if you choose to have a ranged magicka weapon you will not have a charge, if ya choose a charge you'll have no range to speak of.

    The reason dual wield works good on classes like nb, sorc, and Templar is they have mobility plus range

    What Templar mobility are you talking about? Like, what? Seriously, more and more you show how much you DON'T know about any class.

    When i'm talking about Mobility, i'm talking about a Class based Charge, like Toppling Charge in this regards.

    DK's don't have anything like that..so its hard to run a DW based melee class if you can't get close to the target.

    If you want to spat with me more we can...you will not like it.

    You mean the toppling charge which is still bugged to hell but constantly ignored?

    I don't think a DK should be complaining about mobility. Do you not have some of the best ways to mitigate damage int he game? Ultimates that restore stats? A reflect + a decent class shield, whether you like it or not.

    Still vastly better and used by quite a few dual wield magicka templars

    Also for future reference, when one is putting out why specs are not used...and you jump in on the argument that you weren't prepared for...peppering your post with other class abilities not related to the topic at hand doesn't make your argument better..It shows you lack depth in the discussion.

  • Septimus_Magna
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    With the recent changes to Surge, critting on shields might be a sorc buff as well.
    Every magicka build I fight with my sorc uses shields, no matter what class, with 45-50% spell crit my health will keep refilling under my shields. This allows me to focus more on damage output and less on defense.

    Before everyone was wearing 5+ impen (pre 1.5) the sorc crit build was pretty good in pvp, especially in bomb groups.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Dracane
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    With the recent changes to Surge, critting on shields might be a sorc buff as well.
    Every magicka build I fight with my sorc uses shields, no matter what class, with 45-50% spell crit my health will keep refilling under my shields. This allows me to focus more on damage output and less on defense.

    Before everyone was wearing 5+ impen (pre 1.5) the sorc crit build was pretty good in pvp, especially in bomb groups.

    Indeed, was thinking the same. Surge heal is quite weak in pvp. But this nerf is also a possible buff for our surge.
    Let's see how it works. I assume, Nightblade will eat us and 1vx is no longer possible
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • DisgracefulMind
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get

    To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too

    Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent

    Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now

    On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!

    Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.

    Misinformation doesn't help anyone.

    You dodged. Dry carefully what i said in the first paragraph. Let's try this again

    Does that OP shield on you DK make him stronger offensively? No it does not. That's what should have changed. It should scale off health like every else. Sorc's defended that to the death. Then this is where we are now. Should have took the fair change

    Yes yes and now stop being blind. Everyone knows, DK has the best DPS. Have you ever faced a dual wield DK spamming whip and his other things in Cyrodiil ? They tear you up within seconds. No shield spam or block will help you against that.

    A friend of mine gets accused of being a cheater, because his damage is THAT nasty. Dragonknights destroy things in Cyrodiil. problem is, most DKs play as tanks. So you can't expect that from them

    I can safely say I've never faced a dual wield flame lash spamming dk simply because it's one of the worst setups in the game, you lack a charge and if you choose to have a ranged magicka weapon you will not have a charge, if ya choose a charge you'll have no range to speak of.

    The reason dual wield works good on classes like nb, sorc, and Templar is they have mobility plus range

    What Templar mobility are you talking about? Like, what? Seriously, more and more you show how much you DON'T know about any class.

    When i'm talking about Mobility, i'm talking about a Class based Charge, like Toppling Charge in this regards.

    DK's don't have anything like that..so its hard to run a DW based melee class if you can't get close to the target.

    If you want to spat with me more we can...you will not like it.

    You mean the toppling charge which is still bugged to hell but constantly ignored?

    I don't think a DK should be complaining about mobility. Do you not have some of the best ways to mitigate damage int he game? Ultimates that restore stats? A reflect + a decent class shield, whether you like it or not.

    Still vastly better and used by quite a few dual wield magicka templars

    Also for future reference, when one is putting out why specs are not used...and you jump in on the argument that you weren't prepared for...peppering your post with other class abilities not related to the topic at hand doesn't make your argument better..It shows you lack depth in the discussion.

    I have never seen you, ever, in all your qqing, have any depth of understanding in regards to the Sorcerer class, and obviously not the Templar class either.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
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  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Dracane wrote: »
    With the recent changes to Surge, critting on shields might be a sorc buff as well.
    Every magicka build I fight with my sorc uses shields, no matter what class, with 45-50% spell crit my health will keep refilling under my shields. This allows me to focus more on damage output and less on defense.

    Before everyone was wearing 5+ impen (pre 1.5) the sorc crit build was pretty good in pvp, especially in bomb groups.

    Indeed, was thinking the same. Surge heal is quite weak in pvp. But this nerf is also a possible buff for our surge.
    Let's see how it works. I assume, Nightblade will eat us and 1vx is no longer possible

    Yeah, its pretty obvious ZOS is trying to remove 1vx as much as possible. Its a shame smart builds and tactics get punished so much, everyone is responsible for their own build so improve yourself if you're feeling weak.

    With crits on shields there should be a counter measure, like giving shields crit resist based off the casters spell crit or simply decreasing the cyrodiil shield debuff by at least 25%. With just allowing crits on shields the meta will shift towards NBs which isnt good for the balance of the game.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    This grief about Hardened Ward will never end, will it? I mean, that's what it's all about, right?

    Just remove it from the game, I'm tired of this. People keeping on claiming Sorcerers are amazing because of PvP while in PvE we are at best tolerated. All other skills not receiving any improvements because together with Ward they might become too powerful ... just get rid of it.

    In its place, give Sorcerers something else to survive that is not a shield. Like an aura that increases unresistable defense (like that Templar ultimate) that scales with current magicka or something. Anything but a shield, or this will never end.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Mawgusta
    Mawgusta
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    Xsorus wrote: »

    Still vastly better and used by quite a few dual wield magicka templars

    Also for future reference, when one is putting out why specs are not used...and you jump in on the argument that you weren't prepared for...peppering your post with other class abilities not related to the topic at hand doesn't make your argument better..It shows you lack depth in the discussion.

    Aren't your chains a gap closer? If you would use toppling charge to close a gap. You surely could use chains..

    Edit: Also on my Templar I prefer a quickblades for speed and javelin for a knockdown over toppling.
    Edited by Mawgusta on August 2, 2015 4:03AM
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Mawgusta wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »

    Still vastly better and used by quite a few dual wield magicka templars

    Also for future reference, when one is putting out why specs are not used...and you jump in on the argument that you weren't prepared for...peppering your post with other class abilities not related to the topic at hand doesn't make your argument better..It shows you lack depth in the discussion.

    Aren't your chains a gap closer? If you would use toppling charge to close a gap. You surely could use chains..

    Edit: Also on my Templar I prefer a quickblades for speed and javelin for a knockdown over toppling.

    To unreliable, If it had a knockdown like Toppling it'd probably work. Right now by the time you get to the target they're out of range, and the way the game is the chains is wonky and will sometimes pull the target behind ya. Its why you only see it used really in PvE to the most extent....Lot of us DK's tried running it.
  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Real issue is certain shields scaling off magicka vs health.

    This is one of those Blanket changes that will probably hurt most shields...then again since most shields are crap anyway it might not really matter

    This.

    The fact that certain shields scale off magicka instead of health is one of the major sources of imbalance in this game, because when a shield scales off magicka, it grants the player the ability to be extremely tanky and the ability to deal a lot of spell damage since the damage caused by the spells also scales off magicka.

    Hence the need to reduce the effectiveness of the shields in PVP, as a workaround.

    But the shields are also too powerful in PVE. There are plenty of videos showing sorcs pulling 15-20 mobs in PVE and chain killing them easily. I mean it's also OP in PVE. So why does ZOS implement this workaround instead of solving the problem at the root ?

    You want to be tanky? Then increase your health pool and you have strong shields, but then you won't be a pure damage dealer. You want to be a pure damage dealer? Then increase your magicka pool, but then you won't be tanky. This is how it should work, always. But in ESO it's possible for some classes to be a pure damage dealer and be tanky at the time. Why?
    Millenium - Daggerfall Covenant Europe - FR
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    Guild Leader Millenium TESO
  • Faulgor
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    But in ESO it's possible for some classes to be a pure damage dealer and be tanky at the time. Why?

    It's not unreasonable for a spell to scale with a characters magical proficience. That's what it always did in TES:

    But they did away with the original attributes and tried to streamline everything into H/M/S like Skyrim did. This means some effects that should be separate are stacked on the same attribute, such as resource pool amount and spell magnitude. It leads to situations where there are no drawbacks for your attribute investment.

    And because, so far, they failed to add a no-brainer spell to a buff-heavy game: Dispel.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • jpalm1995
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    I love all the QQ from sorcerers. If you don't want your shields to be critable then you shouldn't want your frags to crit for 17k
    I always say that I hate this game, yet for some reason i'm still here.
  • Darnathian
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.

    What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.

    Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.

    Of course he did. Doesn't matter. You cannot reason with these gods.
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Sharee wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.

    What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.

    Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.

    And is it not an almost solely made class for a caster? Which is why the ward scales off of magicka. Just like the tankier classes get a shield that scales off of their health. Give me a reflect, a self-heal, ultimate that restores my stats, and then take away my ward.

    You people are ridiculous.

    Dude. Just stop. You call us the tankier class yet all sorc's and nb's complained about us blocking all your damn damage all the time but failing to kill you. But now we can be tanks because it suits your argument.

    Let's fast forward one month from now. Half the posts will be gone. It will only be nb's and sorc's calling for nerfs on each other. Because all us dk's and Templars will be gone from this game. Enjoy
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Mawgusta wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »

    Still vastly better and used by quite a few dual wield magicka templars

    Also for future reference, when one is putting out why specs are not used...and you jump in on the argument that you weren't prepared for...peppering your post with other class abilities not related to the topic at hand doesn't make your argument better..It shows you lack depth in the discussion.

    Aren't your chains a gap closer? If you would use toppling charge to close a gap. You surely could use chains..

    Edit: Also on my Templar I prefer a quickblades for speed and javelin for a knockdown over toppling.

    Chains never have worked. Never will
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    But in ESO it's possible for some classes to be a pure damage dealer and be tanky at the time. Why?

    It's not unreasonable for a spell to scale with a characters magical proficience. That's what it always did in TES:

    But they did away with the original attributes and tried to streamline everything into H/M/S like Skyrim did. This means some effects that should be separate are stacked on the same attribute, such as resource pool amount and spell magnitude. It leads to situations where there are no drawbacks for your attribute investment.

    And because, so far, they failed to add a no-brainer spell to a buff-heavy game: Dispel.

    Fine. So by that logic we should all be able to chose then. Have a shield morph that scales off stamina and one off magic a right?
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