cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
that sounds extreamly fishy - it clearly indicates sth is completly messed with the way healing ward is calculated.cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
Darnathian wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.
With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.
You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.
Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.
Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol
The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.
So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.
Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.
How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.
Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.
2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?
Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?
Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.
Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.
Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.
But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get
To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too
Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent
Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now
On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!
Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.
Misinformation doesn't help anyone.
You dodged. Dry carefully what i said in the first paragraph. Let's try this again
Does that OP shield on you DK make him stronger offensively? No it does not. That's what should have changed. It should scale off health like every else. Sorc's defended that to the death. Then this is where we are now. Should have took the fair change
Yes yes and now stop being blind. Everyone knows, DK has the best DPS. Have you ever faced a dual wield DK spamming whip and his other things in Cyrodiil ? They tear you up within seconds. No shield spam or block will help you against that.
A friend of mine gets accused of being a cheater, because his damage is THAT nasty. Dragonknights destroy things in Cyrodiil. problem is, most DKs play as tanks. So you can't expect that from them
cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something
cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something
No, hardened ward is strong because it's bloody strong
I think what the post was saying is that it is currently working on PTS more like so:that sounds extreamly fishy - it clearly indicates sth is completly messed with the way healing ward is calculated.cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
as reducing its base value by 50% is creating a 50% overall reduction as intended. if they need to reduce the 300% modifier on top of that it clearly shows their entire math behind that system is flawed and the current live healing ward is tons ehead of what it should provide (wich is sth i would actually agree to as it is the main culprit in the entire shield stacking issue and not hardend ward as many suppose)
to make my point clear:
(100% shield value * 50cyromidifier) * 300% HP modifier = 150% of its base value (or 50 of its current value)
(100% shield value *300 HP modifier) *50% cyromodifier = 150%
(100% * 50%) * 150% = 75 % O_o what are they trying to sell us here ? (of its base value and 25% of its current value)
CaptainObvious wrote: »Tradeoff/Glass Cannon. End of Line.
If your group is bigger than 6 members gain 75% damage reduction.
I think what the post was saying is that it is currently working on PTS more like so:that sounds extreamly fishy - it clearly indicates sth is completly messed with the way healing ward is calculated.cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
as reducing its base value by 50% is creating a 50% overall reduction as intended. if they need to reduce the 300% modifier on top of that it clearly shows their entire math behind that system is flawed and the current live healing ward is tons ehead of what it should provide (wich is sth i would actually agree to as it is the main culprit in the entire shield stacking issue and not hardend ward as many suppose)
to make my point clear:
(100% shield value * 50cyromidifier) * 300% HP modifier = 150% of its base value (or 50 of its current value)
(100% shield value *300 HP modifier) *50% cyromodifier = 150%
(100% * 50%) * 150% = 75 % O_o what are they trying to sell us here ? (of its base value and 25% of its current value)
(100% base value * (100% high health strength - 50% debuff)) = 50% of base value <- As intended
(100% base value * (300% low health strength - 50% debuff)) = 250% of base value <- Way too strong
There have been (or still are) a number of places where % are scaled in an additive/subtractive manner (as in this example) instead of multiplicative manner (as in your example) that have caused problems in game mechanics.
Note that with this statement I'm not claiming that healing ward is indeed scaling this way (I haven't been on PTS yet so I have no first-hand evidence one way or the other) - just trying to illustrate what I think the post was trying to convey.
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"
Baragorath wrote: »Finally some good news and thank you Zenimax for listening to community.
Hope it is true so no macro refreshing sorcerers will fly around Cyro and this is first step to put them in line and bring some fresh air into PvP.
But before i open champagne firstly need to see patch notes implementing this.
Says the permablocking runnaway DK. How do you feel now where you have to play without your turtle tactic ?
I believe sorcerers are once again blowing the nerfs severely out of proportion. Just like they did last patch.
Take into account that blocking will be nerfed, as well as dodgerolling.
Also, allowing shields to crit themselves, increasing their absorption capabilities seems like a rather poor idea unless this is somehow restricted, like heals are by the limit of ones healthpool.
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"
Darnathian wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.
With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.
You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.
Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.
Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol
The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.
So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.
Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.
How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.
Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.
2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?
Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?
Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.
Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.
Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.
But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get
To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too
Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent
Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now
On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!
Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.
Misinformation doesn't help anyone.
And if you have a 20k shield on you DK you are putting out zero damage. Lol. You are playing a tank. Which guess what is getting nerfed in this patch too because sorc's and nb's complained about not being able to kill fast enough. Lol.
Who is putting out misinformation now. 20k igneous shield? Lol
Baragorath wrote: »Baragorath wrote: »Finally some good news and thank you Zenimax for listening to community.
Hope it is true so no macro refreshing sorcerers will fly around Cyro and this is first step to put them in line and bring some fresh air into PvP.
But before i open champagne firstly need to see patch notes implementing this.
Says the permablocking runnaway DK. How do you feel now where you have to play without your turtle tactic ?
Changing to stamina 2h and what will you do?
Hope our sorc teachers which revealed themselves as mushrooms after rainning post update 6 will stop telling others l2p issue.
Good job Zenimax champagne put into refrigerator and hope will be open on 31.08.2015.
I still cant belive that people expect light armor to have the same survivability as heavy armor. On the contrast no-one expect the same from medium armor. Its clear that if you decide to go medium armor, you will die quicker then heavy with the upside of heaving more resources at your disposal. Ask any none NB stamina dps. At the current state, people with effectiv shield use are harder to kill then most heavy armor users, and that while most heavy armor passives are aimed at survivabilty, while light gives you more magicka for doing dmg. Light armor should gets you a glass canons. What you want is a invincible glass canon, so without the downside.
I dont know, if just allowing crit is the right answer though. It would be more sensable to eliminate shieldstacking. But something has to be nerfed, right now effective shield stacker are together with a good siphon tank the hardest enemys to kill. And opposite to the siphon tank, who in some cases cant to much more then stand arround and slowly drain, shieldstacking sorcs still do dmg.
aI still cant belive that people expect light armor to have the same survivability as heavy armor. On the contrast no-one expect the same from medium armor. Its clear that if you decide to go medium armor, you will die quicker then heavy with the upside of heaving more resources at your disposal. Ask any none NB stamina dps. At the current state, people with effectiv shield use are harder to kill then most heavy armor users, and that while most heavy armor passives are aimed at survivabilty, while light gives you more magicka for doing dmg. Light armor should gets you a glass canons. What you want is a invincible glass canon, so without the downside.
I dont know, if just allowing crit is the right answer though. It would be more sensable to eliminate shieldstacking. But something has to be nerfed, right now effective shield stacker are together with a good siphon tank the hardest enemys to kill. And opposite to the siphon tank, who in some cases cant to much more then stand arround and slowly drain, shieldstacking sorcs still do dmg.
With the huge amounts of penetration, and its horrible passives, heavy armor offers less survivability than light or medium armor. That is why every single PvPer uses either light or medium armor. Heavy armor is not an option in PvP because it is simply too bad.
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"
ItsRejectz wrote: »Well it's only fair then if the shields have a chance to crit when they are cast to. Also at the moment shields have no mitigation, that needs to change and have a players resistances also count towards the shields