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Shields are getting changed to be critted

  • Zsymon
    Zsymon
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    How about adding a cost penalty to Healing Ward and Harness Magicka, that way light armor users can still survive an initial assault, but they can't keep themselves alive forever when focused. In this case such a penalty would actually make some sense.
    Edited by Zsymon on August 1, 2015 12:42PM
  • Davkin
    Davkin
    Zsymon wrote: »

    With the huge amounts of penetration, and its horrible passives, heavy armor offers less survivability than light or medium armor. That is why every single PvPer uses either light or medium armor. Heavy armor is not an option in PvP because it is simply too bad. Some block-casting DKs used to use it for the Bracing passive, but blocking is nerfed so those builds are gone now too.

    There is absolutely no reason to use heavy armor, and if shields are taken away as survivability tools, there is no alternative for casters to go.

    Sorcs still have the most viable escape with blink. And different to the anouncement the nerf didnt do much to blink.

    Also does your post summarizes the rest quite well, there is no reason to play heavy armor. The reasonable thing to do is go sorc, nb or if you a a masochist go templer heal. That is a huge problem to the balancing of the game and with nerfing shieldstacking the only nerf left to go would be nb to get a more divers game. You cant fixate on keeping a OP class OP just because everyone is using it, and it is the reasobanle way to compensate against the other OP class. Sorcs have Shieldstacking with an enormous survivability, one of the best escapes and can still do heavy dmg.

  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Zsymon wrote: »
    a
    Davkin wrote: »
    I still cant belive that people expect light armor to have the same survivability as heavy armor. On the contrast no-one expect the same from medium armor. Its clear that if you decide to go medium armor, you will die quicker then heavy with the upside of heaving more resources at your disposal. Ask any none NB stamina dps. At the current state, people with effectiv shield use are harder to kill then most heavy armor users, and that while most heavy armor passives are aimed at survivabilty, while light gives you more magicka for doing dmg. Light armor should gets you a glass canons. What you want is a invincible glass canon, so without the downside.

    I dont know, if just allowing crit is the right answer though. It would be more sensable to eliminate shieldstacking. But something has to be nerfed, right now effective shield stacker are together with a good siphon tank the hardest enemys to kill. And opposite to the siphon tank, who in some cases cant to much more then stand arround and slowly drain, shieldstacking sorcs still do dmg.

    With the huge amounts of penetration, and its horrible passives, heavy armor offers less survivability than light or medium armor. That is why every single PvPer uses either light or medium armor. Heavy armor is not an option in PvP because it is simply too bad. Some block-casting DKs used to use it for the Bracing passive, but blocking is nerfed so those builds are gone now too.

    There is absolutely no reason to use heavy armor, and if shields are taken away as survivability tools, there is no alternative for casters to go.

    You can't say, that heavy armor is bad for surviviabilty in general. I only have around 4000 spell penetration (light armor passive)
    heavy armor users have far more than 20k or more than 30k spell resistance. This mitigates my damage by a lot.

    But physical penetration can reach insane values and can make heavy armor very useless. So the problem here is armor penetration, as spell penetration is not so easy to get, especially since they've changed the apprentice.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • ItsRejectz
    ItsRejectz
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    Laggus wrote: »
    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Well it's only fair then if the shields have a chance to crit when they are cast to. Also at the moment shields have no mitigation, that needs to change and have a players resistances also count towards the shields

    So you want the shields to be even stronger than live now or even after this crit change?

    If this crit change comes in and they still have no mitigation, then your shield may as well be made out of fresh air, that's a fact. It will also give players another viable reason why to equip heavy armor
    Edited by ItsRejectz on August 1, 2015 1:03PM
    Xbox EU - GT: o69 Woody 69o

    VR16 Sorc: Vlad V Impaler
    VR16 Sorc: Yes it's Woody
    VR16 NB: Prince of Wallachia
    VR16 Templar: Sir Lancelot the Brave
    VR16 DK: I'm Better Than You


  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Laggus wrote: »
    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Well it's only fair then if the shields have a chance to crit when they are cast to. Also at the moment shields have no mitigation, that needs to change and have a players resistances also count towards the shields

    So you want the shields to be even stronger than live now or even after this crit change?

    If this crit change comes in and they still have no mitigation, then your shield may as well be made out of fresh air, that's a fact

    Right. There is no point in using shields then. 1 wrecking blow or ambush crit from a somewhat strong male will eat your shield up, stun you and then it's as good as over for light armor users.

    I currently fail to see, in what way we could adapt to that. Shields are hard to balance. If you don't nerf them enough, people will keep on complaining and if you nerf them too much (which is the case currently) they are as good as useless.
    Edited by Dracane on August 1, 2015 1:03PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Davkin
    Davkin
    Zlater wrote: »
    I dont think you've even tried the new bolt escape -.- I don't even think you've been on the pts yet and are just another NB here to cry nerf.

    I currently play a stamina melee dk on the pts (pact) with about 80k AP.(http://i.imgur.com/PZI8zFS.jpg)
    You are right i havent tried the escape myself, but i played against quite a few sorcs who used it. It is still viabale to fight with shields up and blink away 3-4 times. (even while under chokint talons which in itself is crazy). And i agree nb are also realy crazy atm but for me that was to a huge part because of my lack of invisibility detect. Over the two days, i just met 4 recurring builds which where unbelivable and against which normal players (me including) didnt have a chance in group or alone. Hard hitting nb that made amazing use oftheir cloak, bugusing flying blade that hits for 30k, an specific amazing siphon tank from dominion who just could stand in the middle of 4-5 players without giving a *** and sorcs with shieldstacking and blink.
    Edited by Davkin on August 1, 2015 1:42PM
  • Rhakon
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    its just another buff for Nightblades,

    but the tamplars blazing shield (healthscaled)got double nerfed(lowershield->lower damage at explosion-> minus 30 damage overall... tripplenerf???...) into uselessness.
    and DK's shield are scaling from health too so its only for tanks and they cant block anymore...

    sorcs shields scale of magica, it will stay strong combined with healingward .
    sorcs shield will be the only useful class shield because all they have to do is stacking magica...boring but effective!

    i tested on pts, the stacking is to strong atm in my opinion. My templar was very hard to kill, Sorcs can tank endless when played right.
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Rhakon wrote: »
    its just another buff for Nightblades,

    but the tamplars blazing shield (healthscaled)got double nerfed(lowershield->lower damage at explosion-> minus 30 damage overall... tripplenerf???...) into uselessness.
    and DK's shield are scaling from health too so its only for tanks and they cant block anymore...

    sorcs shields scale of magica, it will stay strong combined with healingward .
    sorcs shield will be the only useful class shield because all they have to do is stacking magica...boring but effective!

    i tested on pts, the stacking is to strong atm in my opinion. My templar was very hard to kill, Sorcs can tank endless when played right.

    Templars and DKs aren't supposed to have strong shields. You have strong self heals and other defensive options.
    No need for strong shields. And 1 shield is never enough. Even Sorcerers couldn't survive most situations if they would only have hardenened ward. But Sorcerers don't have the ability to heal themselves so easily if the shield fails.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Vis
    Vis
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    I'm cool with shields being crittable if they themselves can crit. That is, if my 10k shield can sometimes crit when casted for 15k, then I am all good with the change.
    v14 Sorc Vae Exillis
    v14 DK Costs
    v14 NB 'Vis
    v14 Temp Fiat Lux

  • Laggus
    Laggus
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Rhakon wrote: »
    its just another buff for Nightblades,

    but the tamplars blazing shield (healthscaled)got double nerfed(lowershield->lower damage at explosion-> minus 30 damage overall... tripplenerf???...) into uselessness.
    and DK's shield are scaling from health too so its only for tanks and they cant block anymore...

    sorcs shields scale of magica, it will stay strong combined with healingward .
    sorcs shield will be the only useful class shield because all they have to do is stacking magica...boring but effective!

    i tested on pts, the stacking is to strong atm in my opinion. My templar was very hard to kill, Sorcs can tank endless when played right.

    Templars and DKs aren't supposed to have strong shields. You have strong self heals and other defensive options.
    No need for strong shields. And 1 shield is never enough. Even Sorcerers couldn't survive most situations if they would only have hardenened ward. But Sorcerers don't have the ability to heal themselves so easily if the shield fails.

    You have taken BE out of the equation completely in that scenario which is not realistic. It remains a powerful tool to relocate and heal or simply escape. DKs and Templars do not have any escape skills. They can turtle up and wait for help to arrive and try to out resource their attacker(s) but with no stamina regen whilst blocking this is now a lot harder. If they have a shield up the Sorcs have access to plenty of crit too to blast them out of it.
  • ItsRejectz
    ItsRejectz
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    Dracane wrote: »
    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Laggus wrote: »
    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Well it's only fair then if the shields have a chance to crit when they are cast to. Also at the moment shields have no mitigation, that needs to change and have a players resistances also count towards the shields

    So you want the shields to be even stronger than live now or even after this crit change?

    If this crit change comes in and they still have no mitigation, then your shield may as well be made out of fresh air, that's a fact

    Right. There is no point in using shields then. 1 wrecking blow or ambush crit from a somewhat strong male will eat your shield up, stun you and then it's as good as over for light armor users.

    I currently fail to see, in what way we could adapt to that. Shields are hard to balance. If you don't nerf them enough, people will keep on complaining and if you nerf them too much (which is the case currently) they are as good as useless.

    That's why I said they need to make shields be effected by your armor and spelled resistances. That way, not only does it give players some actual incentive to wear heavy armor, it also takes away the chance of a shield been one shot For players who choose to spec more into survivability rather than damage output.
    Xbox EU - GT: o69 Woody 69o

    VR16 Sorc: Vlad V Impaler
    VR16 Sorc: Yes it's Woody
    VR16 NB: Prince of Wallachia
    VR16 Templar: Sir Lancelot the Brave
    VR16 DK: I'm Better Than You


  • Tankqull
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    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Laggus wrote: »
    ItsRejectz wrote: »
    Well it's only fair then if the shields have a chance to crit when they are cast to. Also at the moment shields have no mitigation, that needs to change and have a players resistances also count towards the shields

    So you want the shields to be even stronger than live now or even after this crit change?

    If this crit change comes in and they still have no mitigation, then your shield may as well be made out of fresh air, that's a fact

    Right. There is no point in using shields then. 1 wrecking blow or ambush crit from a somewhat strong male will eat your shield up, stun you and then it's as good as over for light armor users.

    I currently fail to see, in what way we could adapt to that. Shields are hard to balance. If you don't nerf them enough, people will keep on complaining and if you nerf them too much (which is the case currently) they are as good as useless.

    That's why I said they need to make shields be effected by your armor and spelled resistances. That way, not only does it give players some actual incentive to wear heavy armor, it also takes away the chance of a shield been one shot For players who choose to spec more into survivability rather than damage output.

    light armor provides so freaking low mitigation that noone does care if it is applied or not.
    make them crittable but give them 25%base mitigation + upto 25% additional mitigation via bastion cps
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Septimus_Magna
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    At this point I wouldnt support adding another factor in order to balance pvp.

    First of all, shields cant crit themselfs when they are casted so allowing crits on damage they take seems unfair.
    Second, some classes/builds have a lot of crit, allowing crits on shields will only work towards those one-burst gank builds, eventually even against shielded targets. The whole point of the recent changes was to avoid this and increase the TTK in Cyrodiil.
    Third, most problem with unkillable shield stackers is caused by healing ward in combination with other shields. It might be better to adjust the 300% on healing ward instead of constantly buffing and nerfing different aspects with insane percentages. If you want to balance something dont throw in 30-50% changes at every update, make subtile changes with 5-15% without enitrely shifting the meta. It seems the balancing has to start from scratch after each update.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Snit
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    Shields should take on the caster's mitigation, then. They also need to fix the overflow effect, or casting shields could actually do more harm than good against large, crit alpha-strikes.

    I already switched to NB for 1.6, though, so whatever.
    Edited by Snit on August 1, 2015 3:17PM
    Snit AD Sorc
    Ratbag AD Warden Tank
    Goblins AD Stamblade
    Goblin Gro AD Templar Healer
    Misfitz (RIP)
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    At this point I wouldnt support adding another factor in order to balance pvp.

    First of all, shields cant crit themselfs when they are casted so allowing crits on damage they take seems unfair.
    Second, some classes/builds have a lot of crit, allowing crits on shields will only work towards those one-burst gank builds, eventually even against shielded targets. The whole point of the recent changes was to avoid this and increase the TTK in Cyrodiil.
    Third, most problem with unkillable shield stackers is caused by healing ward in combination with other shields. It might be better to adjust the 300% on healing ward instead of constantly buffing and nerfing different aspects with insane percentages. If you want to balance something dont throw in 30-50% changes at every update, make subtile changes with 5-15% without enitrely shifting the meta. It seems the balancing has to start from scratch after each update.

    Very good explaination again. I still hope, they might reconsider this bad idea and find another, better solution.
    The root of the problem IS healing ward. Dragonknights and Templars have good self heals.
    But Sorcerer has a strong class shield and if a Sorcerer can heal himself so fast while being protected by his shields, then it's just broken and unfair towards other classes and this is caused by healing ward.

    I can understand people's complains. But ZoS is running the wrong path if they think, shields in general are the problem.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Darnathian
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Baragorath wrote: »
    Finally some good news and thank you Zenimax for listening to community.

    Hope it is true so no macro refreshing sorcerers will fly around Cyro and this is first step to put them in line and bring some fresh air into PvP.

    But before i open champagne firstly need to see patch notes implementing this.

    Says the permablocking runnaway DK. How do you feel now where you have to play without your turtle tactic ?

    Lol. Wow. You compare a tank tanking to God mode sorc running around killing everything. Good one. But maybe that means more dk's will find the God mode you mentioned above with the killer damage
  • Darnathian
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?
  • Darnathian
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    No, hardened ward is strong because it's bloody strong

    It's strong because it has to be strong. According to all the comments you've made, I can safely say, that you appearently have no hm.... clue ? Don't want to be insulting :neutral: don't get me wrong, so I apologize for saying this. But that's all I can say, you're selfish.

    You want to see Sorcerers without a good shield and without a class heal. How are they supposed to exist ? That's the trade off. Strong shield for weak self heal, this idea gets destroyed by Healing Ward being so strong. if they turn down Healing ward, things will get much better. And Healing Ward is op on everyone, not only on Sorcs. It's not only a Sorcerer problem

    Umm. Hypocrit? You just got done in another post laughing at dk's losing their ability to tank by removing stAmina regen while blocking. So biased it's unreal. Keep talking and sinking your own ship
  • Kupoking
    Kupoking
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    Omg ZoS you guys are scoring lotsa points with me!

    BTW giving mitigation on dmg shield is ridiculous, would totally negate this fix. Bubbles arent made to make perma unkillable. Its made to absorb 1-2 hits.
    Edited by Kupoking on August 1, 2015 4:40PM
  • Darnathian
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Rhakon wrote: »
    its just another buff for Nightblades,

    but the tamplars blazing shield (healthscaled)got double nerfed(lowershield->lower damage at explosion-> minus 30 damage overall... tripplenerf???...) into uselessness.
    and DK's shield are scaling from health too so its only for tanks and they cant block anymore...

    sorcs shields scale of magica, it will stay strong combined with healingward .
    sorcs shield will be the only useful class shield because all they have to do is stacking magica...boring but effective!

    i tested on pts, the stacking is to strong atm in my opinion. My templar was very hard to kill, Sorcs can tank endless when played right.

    Templars and DKs aren't supposed to have strong shields. You have strong self heals and other defensive options.
    No need for strong shields. And 1 shield is never enough. Even Sorcerers couldn't survive most situations if they would only have hardenened ward. But Sorcerers don't have the ability to heal themselves so easily if the shield fails.

    What's the other strong defensive options you fail to tell us? Blocking passive that you pointed out is going away earlier? Lol creep reaching
  • Xeniph
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    It amazes me that some people think this is a sorc only nerf.

    Shields and classes this change effects:

    Sorc- Conjured Ward
    DK- Igneous Shield
    Templar- Sun Shield

    2h- Brawler
    Resto- Steadfast Ward
    Undaunted-Bone Shield
    Assault- Barrier

    And stop with all the "Sorcs need their shields as is, they are squishier than everyone else" bs. They are not the only people who use LA, but they are only 2 of the 4 classes that have an escape mechanic, and the only class that has both.

    This change is a LONG time coming, and if you actually look back objectively, everyone knows it. Also keep in mind that I'll wager there is one more nerf on the way for the shields that scale with magicka and that will be to scale them off health.

    Sorcs are not and will not be worse off than anyone with this change, they will however be closer to equal.
    Stamina/ Magicka

    Phenîx- NB / Phenix- NB
    Xineph- DK / Xéniph- DK
    Phénix- Sorc/ Xeniph- Sorc
    Phinex -Temp/ Phènix- Templar
  • RoamingRiverElk
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    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    You have no self heal therefore you should have great damage mitigation. Is that your rational? Lol ever heard of a Nightblade?

    Does it always have to come to that-- an NB crying, alone in the dark? -_-

    [edit]
    Just wanted to add, my NBs are still babies, but it sounds like NBs will be even better after the update. So I dunno why the angst. lol


    Who said anything about crying. Nightblades have awesome burst damage, but no self heals or damage mitigation. It's the crying self entitled sorcs that whine because they want to be the best at everything, and boy they whine. Now the hammer of balance is coming down upon you, and you don't want to accept it. Sorry but bask in this moment of being grossly overpowered, because when IC goes live, you'll have to fight us at our level, and I think sorcs have gotten too comfortable with not having to strategize and play skillfully.

    I'd just like to point out that nightblades can, you know, go invisible.

    But let's please take away a magicka Sorc's ONLY defense. Right? Right.

    It's a selfish nerf that was wanted from people who play classes that have a wide variety of defense and offense. While I will agree that shields are far too strong on PTS, I don't think nerfing them any further helps anybody. I think the best approach would be for ZoS to adjust the damage reduction in Cyrodiil accordingly.

    90% of the people I see complaining about Sorcerers all the time are, in fact, not really good players to begin with. It's funny how people want to complain about classes they have issues fighting, but don't want to adjust their builds for the likely situation in which they will have to fight that class. I thought PvP was about having a dynamic build that can serve you correctly in many different situations.

    But, no, people began to crave quick kills in this game, and anything that is less than that has now become a reason for them to scream for nerfs.

    Detection potions, mage light, revealing flare, piercing mark and AoEs, all of these take a Nightblade out of stealth. How about this. Let's make your shields last only 2.5 seconds, but the catch is that if I do any of those things I listed your shield is gone, and you won't be able to reactivate it again for the remainder of the fight? Sounds harsh doesn't it? Yeah, the only thing selfish about this nerf is how sorcs are reacting to it. You don't want balance, you want to be overpowered. You don't want to win because of your skill as a player, you want to win because of your class. And now this severe imbalance is being taken away from you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    Let's also make it so that activating the shield makes four incoming attacks automatically miss. :)
    Dalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar
  • Jahosefat
    Jahosefat
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    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    LOL, somebody got killed by a sorc and it really bothered them.... ;) You know there are two morphs of the sorc ward right? One increases damage of pets, the other is hardened ward and is just a shield. Also 15k? lol maybe an emp in 1.6. Check your facts before spouting out nonsense.

    Everybody gonna roll NB. End of story.
    Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer

    Fight not with monsters lest ye become one
  • Darnathian
    Darnathian
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    Jahosefat wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    LOL, somebody got killed by a sorc and it really bothered them.... ;) You know there are two morphs of the sorc ward right? One increases damage of pets, the other is hardened ward and is just a shield. Also 15k? lol maybe an emp in 1.6. Check your facts before spouting out nonsense.

    Everybody gonna roll NB. End of story.

    Everyone is getting killed by sorc's. Lol.

    Sorc's getting nerfed and it bothers you? Lol. I can at that game too


    I get killed by a lot of players. I don't care about that. I don't want to get killed by other players just because they can spam two buttons to not die.
  • Hiero_Glyph
    Hiero_Glyph
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    1) Being able to crit shields cannot happen as long as the overflow bug that ignores armor/resistance mitigation is present. We all know how good ZoS is at fixing actual coding bugs so the ability to crit shields can literally never happen.

    2) Make all shields scale off of health. This would be a global change and would hit the classes the benefit the most the hardest as Sorcs are triple-dipping in Magicka right now since it gives them a larger resource pool, increases damage, and gives them bigger shields. There will a significant difference just from scaling a shield off of 19k instead of 34k. If this is a global change it will also be easier to manage balance changes in the future.

    3) Address Healing Ward and figure out if it is working as intended before changing anything else. If this scales off of the target's health it may be solved without needing to do much as well since healing a target with 20k health provides less results than healing one with 25k health, especially if the shield strength bonus is based on the % of remaining health. Balance changes may follow based on looking into this skill since this is the main culprit in this problem.

    4) Just as with Healing Ward review each of the individual damage shields and tweak their values to make sure that all of them are relatively similar or that their benefits/cost are measured before making changes. Sun Shield definitely needs to be improved and should be addressed once Conjured Ward is reviewed as the disparity between them is currently very high.

    5) Watch the data trends long-term and review this information on a monthly basis. Damage shields have been a major issue for too long for them to continue to be ignored.
    Edited by Hiero_Glyph on August 1, 2015 8:40PM
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    I'm beginning to like the idea of shields being critable.
    This emphazies crit builds again. Currently, having high spell damage is what most people aim for.

    I would like to try a crit build. Which wouldn't be fun, if most people can counter it by using shields.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Darnathian wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    k2blader wrote: »
    This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.

    With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.

    You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.

    Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.

    Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol

    The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.

    So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.

    Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.

    How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.

    Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.

    2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?

    Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?

    Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.

    Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.

    Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.

    But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get

    To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too

    Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent

    Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now

    On live my hardened ward is 15k in Cyrodiil. 5k less than my DK's igneous shield. You know what the difference is? My DK has a lot more ways to survive, has a reflect, a self heal that's boosted by my shield, and ultimates that restore my stats. So I gladly trade a mere 5k shield for that. And, guess what, I can shield stack on my DK too! Omg!

    Please stop with this 25k+ shield crap. Sorcerers commonly use Harness + Hardened. But, remember, Harness only absorbs spell damage based attacks and is available to everyone. And seeing as many stamina based attacks and even a few magicka based attacks hit almost for 15k, I find it hilarious that people have such an issue with hardened ward. As for shields on PTS, I think the crit change is going to solve the issues people are having. So let's wait that out before sobbing for more nerfs.

    Misinformation doesn't help anyone.

    You dodged. Dry carefully what i said in the first paragraph. Let's try this again

    Does that OP shield on you DK make him stronger offensively? No it does not. That's what should have changed. It should scale off health like every else. Sorc's defended that to the death. Then this is where we are now. Should have took the fair change

    Yes yes and now stop being blind. Everyone knows, DK has the best DPS. Have you ever faced a dual wield DK spamming whip and his other things in Cyrodiil ? They tear you up within seconds. No shield spam or block will help you against that.

    A friend of mine gets accused of being a cheater, because his damage is THAT nasty. Dragonknights destroy things in Cyrodiil. problem is, most DKs play as tanks. So you can't expect that from them

    I can safely say I've never faced a dual wield flame lash spamming dk simply because it's one of the worst setups in the game, you lack a charge and if you choose to have a ranged magicka weapon you will not have a charge, if ya choose a charge you'll have no range to speak of.

    The reason dual wield works good on classes like nb, sorc, and Templar is they have mobility plus range

    What Templar mobility are you talking about? Like, what? Seriously, more and more you show how much you DON'T know about any class.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    ✭✭✭
    Darnathian wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    TheBull wrote: »
    I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.

    The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?

    There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.

    Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade :(

    Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.

    Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50%
    is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).

    This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
    And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
    When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something

    Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage

    You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?

    Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.

    What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
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