Okay, it seems the constructive posts have ended around page 2 and this thread is now the personal field of two players wanting to be right and refusing to see each others points.

Can we lock it or are you two willing to move that to PNs?

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Okay, it seems the constructive posts have ended around page 2 and this thread is now the personal field of two players wanting to be right and refusing to see each others points.

Can we lock it or are you two willing to move that to PNs?

Let's suppose that there are two players that refuse to see each others points. You being keen to that possibility implies that you do see both players points.

So what side do you take?

If one of those players makes points against you, which you then disagree with, then does that mean that you don't see their point? Does it mean that you do see their point, but they are wrong?

My stance is this, as posted on page 2 of this thread already:

Leandor wrote: »

Food for thought: Make the "stamina regeneration stop while blocking" be a debuff tied to the Cyrodiil battle spirit thing. Voila, separated the PvP issue from PvE.

I do not PvE so I don't presume to be knowledgeable about this issue, but I still think that much of the things said to oppose the change may be slightly exaggerated. My point of view tells me that this change is absolutely mandatory from the PvP perspective, and this is not because I can't deal with them.

I do not take the side of either of you. Both of you show a very biased stance not open to compromise.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Also:

"http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/06/battlemasters-corner--the-unstoppable-juggernaut"

ESO client news "4 hours ago". Is ZOS mocking us?

•Health: 23,489
•Magicka: 12,801
•Stamina: 17,567
•Health Regen: 812
•Magicka Regen: 536
•Stamina Regen: 591

and this should outstand 1vx? i would crush this DK in seconds lol

"If played correctly, this build should not have Magicka-sustain issues in 1v1s or even 1v2s."

and i Play mag dk btw

Master_Kas wrote: »

I think they should atleast make it a 25-50% stam regen penalty Max , when using 1h shield.

Tough if this change goes through I guess My new dk can focus all on mana regen and spelldamage to Kill stuff faster and to use earthern heart skills to regain stam .

Hope ZOS doesn't make it 0 stam regen while using 1h shield.

Btw ZOS while Reading this thread =

yea thought the same that this would actually make more sens. 50% would be optimal, 2k stam reg would be 1k and 1k cant perma block 2+ guys

The Uninvited wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

yea thought the same that this would actually make more sens. 50% would be optimal, 2k stam reg would be 1k and 1k cant perma block 2+ guys

I said it before, 50% or maybe 35%. Seems we can agree on this.

This way, I think we can keep both parties (PvE/PvP) happy with the change.

I would even find it better to simplay Change a CP (or 30/75 Perk) ignore 25% of the blockmitigation
more dmg = more Stamina consume from blocking, would be the same as -50% reg. and this would just affect pvp

Leandor wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

yea thought the same that this would actually make more sens. 50% would be optimal, 2k stam reg would be 1k and 1k cant perma block 2+ guys

I said it before, 50% or maybe 35%. Seems we can agree on this.

This way, I think we can keep both parties (PvE/PvP) happy with the change.

I would even find it better to simplay Change a CP (or 30/75 Perk) ignore 25% of the blockmitigation
more dmg = more Stamina consume from blocking, would be the same as -50% reg. and this would just affect pvp

AFAIK, block cost is independent of the amount of damage blocked. Why would you need to spend more stamina if the amount (percentage of incoming damage) blocked would be reduced?

wasnt the blockcost based on the dmg get throught the block?

BuggeX wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

yea thought the same that this would actually make more sens. 50% would be optimal, 2k stam reg would be 1k and 1k cant perma block 2+ guys

I said it before, 50% or maybe 35%. Seems we can agree on this.

This way, I think we can keep both parties (PvE/PvP) happy with the change.

I would even find it better to simplay Change a CP (or 30/75 Perk) ignore 25% of the blockmitigation
more dmg = more Stamina consume from blocking, would be the same as -50% reg. and this would just affect pvp

AFAIK, block cost is independent of the amount of damage blocked. Why would you need to spend more stamina if the amount (percentage of incoming damage) blocked would be reduced?

wasnt the blockcost based on the dmg get throught the block?

You dont know the block cost and you wrote more than 10 comments in this topic. Thats is scary. When you are not competent please do not give your opinion.

DDuke wrote: »

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Can we just get on with suggestions on possible solutions with regards to this issue?

We still haven't determined whether this even is an issue.

I mean, how could we. We know maybe a friction of all the changes and not one of us has tested any of these in PTS, seen how they play in conjunction with all the other changes.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

LOL, thats right, lets wait till its too late. Let it to PTS and then agree on half measures.
Its best to prevent bad things, not let them happen and then try to patch it up.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

It's not a "fix" nor is it a "needed change". Its a nerf, simply put. And this will just put all tanks, especially those who are just starting to be one, beginner tanks, even more pressure to adapt to new gameplay mechanics.

Yeah i think this is the main worry for me - for a new player to try to learn to tank it will be difficult and more will just go to DPS - unfortunately tanks are in demand so this doesnt help.

I tried to block less over the last two days and darn-krikey if i didnt make my party wipe a good couple of times. It is difficult, but I think it will take some getting used to. For a seasoned tank i think it will be a good challenge, which i am failing right now but that makes me just want to conquer it more and i think thats why we play this game. My feeling is still that this is a bad idea but it doesnt mean i wont try to master it within the new rules.

Perma blocking is an issue in PvE too. It makes the game much easier because of the massive damage reduction. Not to mention mobs having useless spec attacks being ignored by blocking easily. You even get ultimate while blocking without the need to break it and waste time LA/HA (... and not all skills can be weaved). ZOS cannot simply fix this by raising overall damage of mobs/bosses as it would be a half-baked solution. Some builds cannot use permablocking so this change evens out the field and helps build diversity.

SickDuck wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Can we just get on with suggestions on possible solutions with regards to this issue?

We still haven't determined whether this even is an issue.

I mean, how could we. We know maybe a friction of all the changes and not one of us has tested any of these in PTS, seen how they play in conjunction with all the other changes.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

LOL, thats right, lets wait till its too late. Let it to PTS and then agree on half measures.
Its best to prevent bad things, not let them happen and then try to patch it up.

Or you know, we can just cry about any & every major change coming to the game and prevent devs from changing it at all.

I'll be right back, starting a "stamina DPS PvE is ruined - we can no longer roll dodge infinitely & solo group dungeons!!" post.


Sigh... this whole debacle reminds me of the "Sorc is dead!!" posts pre-1.6.

Turns out sorc became the strongest class in PvP & second strongest in PvE. What do you know...


It's best to test things out, see if they work & then suggest improvements/changes, not settle into the ignorant mindset of "I know this is bad, without knowing half about it or other changes, or testing it. I just know, because.". That kind of mindset is just going to make you look like an id*** later on, just like the sorcs crying about their class being dead pre-1.6.

Other thing it reminds me is the "don't nerf/change ulti regeneration because it will kill end game especially for tanks" threads before 1.6...

Please show me one topic where it was stated "especially for tanks". The ultimate regeneration was silly and rediculous before 1.6 but I have never seen anybody cried about these changes and giving arguments that the tanks will suffer. Because now as a tank I generated 3-4 times faster my ultimate.

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Anything to make this game have some level of difficulty i am all for

Get naked.

Leandor wrote: »

I do not PvE so I don't presume to be knowledgeable about this issue, but I still think that much of the things said to oppose the change may be slightly exaggerated. My point of view tells me that this change is absolutely mandatory from the PvP perspective, and this is not because I can't deal with them.

I do not take the side of either of you. Both of you show a very biased stance not open to compromise.

Now let's pretend that I discuss how a change to stamina regeneration while blocking isn't a good fix in pvp due to tanks already being balanced in pvp, perhaps, because of counters.

Maybe I say that tanking everywhere isn't separable, even if a new change only effects pvp, because of how changing champion points or attributes, every time Cyrodiil calls, isn't practical for PVE tanks.

Finally, I could declare that compromise is wrong because the stated reasoning from Eric was fatal and that the developer vision of tanking in the game is in error.

Am I biased for my side? I suppose. I mean, I'm not going to arbitrarily agree with someone else who wants something totally different from what I want. Have I failed to see your points? It's possible. Am I thinking of points that I find more important than the points that other people are making?

Let's say that despite what everyone says in this thread that you continue to believe that "this change is absolutely mandatory from the PvP perspective" or that a compromise is a good solution. Are you being biased, bull-headed, and not seeing other peoples points? I mean, there have been 17 pages of posts and you claim to believe the same thing that you wrote on page 2, just like me.

SickDuck wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It's not about tanking being easy, it's about tanking being so powerful that you can slot DPS or healing gear and still do it, while performing multiple other roles.

It's about tanking being so powerful, that it neuters other aspects of the game null & void (no CC'ing trash mobs, no strategies or anything, just run in & AoE while tank taunts everything).


I just get the impression that a tank who complains about his role changing & requiring a new aspect (resource management) can't be a good one.

(let's see PTS first)

Here we go with opinions again.

If I started to play a tank, I would expect to play one. Not a DPS, not a healer.

Your first three points aren't a tank problem, it is a problem with dps being too high in the game. see what I did there?

Exactly. And with this change it should be a bit lower. See what they are doing there?

>Say changing tanking because it is uninteractive and boring
>Secret disdain for dps
>Can't wait for dps to die because the tank died
>Best way to nerf dps
>High fives

SickDuck wrote: »

Some builds cannot use permablocking so this change evens out the field and helps build diversity.

Strange, a bunch of people seem to think that this will limit diversity by changing what a tank will have to focus on.