PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Soarin' · July 2015

Nightblade siphoning tanks using caltrops to generate stamina will simply become the new meta. Totally makes sense to remove class roles of the DK's... will there even being a point to using green Dragon Blood morph any more?

PBpsy · July 2015

Soarin' wrote: »

Nightblade siphoning tanks using caltrops to generate stamina will simply become the new meta. Totally makes sense to remove class roles of the DK's... will there even being a point to using green Dragon Blood morph any more?

Don't worry they will probably nerf that. But it's alright since they buff Agony's damage.

Storm_knight22 · July 2015

Oh yay! Death challenges will be so fun now. tank these four daedroths, wraiths or whatever with no stamina! I love how this challenging new element of game play is being introduced so that a handful of PvP N00Bs can one shot players for 20000 DMG with a bow. YAY.

tpanisiakb16_ESO · July 2015

This is ultimately my problem with this change and I don't know if the Dev's considered it.

Throughout the history of MMOs "tanking" has been a bit of an art-form that I always strive to perfect. There's something awesomely calming to me about being able to gather mobs up in a nice tight group, allowing my team to bulldoze into them, clean and clear and without any hiccups. That doesn't always happen; thing go astray. Someone zigs when they should zag, a red circle gets placed unpredictably, the healer may need to focus on healing a bit more, the DPS may receive a lesson on where he should or shouldn't stand. Generally, as a tank, I feel proud of my role to be there and take the damage, defend my team and control the battlefield as best as I can given the situation. I've grown to love ESO's weird way of handling tanking, if a bit simplified.

As a tank throughout many MMOs I've always delighted in the fact that so long as I'm strong, prudent and watchful I could lead many stragglers and weak-links and, well, noobs, through dungeons they might otherwise have problems with. I really enjoy getting new members and fresh VR12-14's into and out of (successfully!) tougher dungeons like vet CoH and CoA.

However, the meta of tanking appears to have shifted drastically. It feels as though ZOS has broken our legs, given us crutches and asked us to run marathons. No longer will the ease of a group be defined by the skillset of a tank; the entire meta of every encounter is going to be "DPS before tank runs out of stamina." Tanks are now going to be the crazy weak link in every situation, the necessary trifecta that's a complete burden but still entirely required to buy the DPS just a bit more uninterrupted time on target before all hell breaks loose.

Maybe I'm exaggerating or going into crisis mode based on a small smattering of information we've received today, but I cannot possibly fathom how tanking for my Sunday AA run for a group with low(ish) DPS is going to go over well. How am I going to hold 4 (and almost always!) 5 axes on Mage? The DPS needs to DPS harder you say? Well here's the thing with that: I'm not competitive and I don't think every build should have to follow the samey cookie cutter to clear all content. We're not trying to leaderboard here, and I'm totally comfortable with people running utterly crippled builds because ultimately this game is suppose to be "play how you want" friendly. Oh sure I can run 20 minute AA's with another guild (and I do!), but I don't have quite as much fun as with my rag-tag team I look forward to every Sunday night. We have fun; genuine good times, no elitism, no BS, all giggles and funsies and if someone breaks more than 10K DPS that's great for them, hooray! We always manage to get through Trials with minimal fuss, but ultimately I know we do what we do because I'm a strong tank and we have a couple of strong players to help.

I cannot see how I'm supposed to tank 4+ axes for any amount of time given the block-casting change.

"It's harder, sure, but all content is clearable". Sure, great. However, were you testing these challenges with ideal group setups? You know, the melee DPS that pulls 12K+ and that awesome master destro-staff wielding Dunmer DK melting things? Was the team cared for by a Templar? Was your tank a Nightblade? A Dragonknight? I'm sure everything is clearable with minimal fuss given the ideal group setups and with DPS able to nuke things before the stam-pot came off cooldown.

As @ckbud said above, consider vDSA in certain arenas like Sacrafices where I'm blowing through stamina getting to adds before they get to my teammates, grouping them up, taunting from afar, blocking and walking out of circles and AOE's. Consider the Grove and Longshots for half a second. I don't know how you guys do it, but our team nukes Longshots while I (the tank) gathers up all the adds as best as I can, using talons to root, caltrops to slow. In many arenas I have so much stuff in front of my face that I don't even know WTF is going on. Maybe I have all of them taunted, maybe I don't. Maybe someone is winding up for a heavy attack, but I can't tell because I have two lurchers that need to be interrupted or avoided.

Visually, there is so little feedback on the actualities of what's going on at times that hunkering behind a shield is not only an ideal strategy, it's THE ONLY strategy. The lack of visual feedback (with or without addons) is another can of worms altogether, and a complication that's going to be made WORSE considering blocking is about as good as pulling down my pants and bending over.

Maybe consider, for ONCE, making changes to PvP without affecting PvE.

I'd still like to be able to tank 4 wraiths (or, if my team is sucks that day, 6) to get the gold key in CoH.

Xantaria · July 2015

well, I will just go back to my 47k health DK and only block heavy attacks from bosses ... It's that easy ... stack more defence than before and there you go.

Bromburak · July 2015

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe consider, for ONCE, making changes to PvP without affecting PvE.

Ok, lets start a drop CP vote for PvP and see how many of you will vote for yes.

You guys are so predictable ...

traigusb14_ESO2 · July 2015

Raids...
Might require strategy changes for some fights... Maybe 2 tanks on axes? Assigning templars to spear STA support tanks more often? Etc. Etc. Yeah times will go down (maybe requiring a leaderboard wipe), but I'm sure people will find ways to redistribute roles to finish. As an old school EQ raider shuffling roles in a raid doesn't bother me so much.

VDSA is a lot harder to shuffle roles. I'm more worried about this.

GamerzElite · July 2015

They gave new job to Templars.

AngryNord · July 2015

You guys know you can send /feedback in-game, right?

Nifty2g · July 2015

I can't wait when they ignore this thread and still bring it in. Lol @ZOS lol

GamerzElite wrote: »

They gave new job to Templars.

Templars have always done this throwing shards to tanks using repentance etc its nothing a new job at all, and furthermore synergies have cooldowns, this is not going to be the solution

The Uninvited · July 2015

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

This is ultimately my problem with this change and I don't know if the Dev's considered it.

I cannot see how I'm supposed to tank 4+ axes for any amount of time given the block-casting change.

"It's harder, sure, but all content is clearable". Sure, great. However, were you testing these challenges with ideal group setups? You know, the melee DPS that pulls 12K+ and that awesome master destro-staff wielding Dunmer DK melting things? Was the team cared for by a Templar? Was your tank a Nightblade? A Dragonknight? I'm sure everything is clearable with minimal fuss given the ideal group setups and with DPS able to nuke things before the stam-pot came off cooldown.

As @ckbud said above, consider vDSA in certain arenas like Sacrafices where I'm blowing through stamina getting to adds before they get to my teammates, grouping them up, taunting from afar, blocking and walking out of circles and AOE's. Consider the Grove and Longshots for half a second. I don't know how you guys do it, but our team nukes Longshots while I (the tank) gathers up all the adds as best as I can, using talons to root, caltrops to slow. In many arenas I have so much stuff in front of my face that I don't even know WTF is going on. Maybe I have all of them taunted, maybe I don't. Maybe someone is winding up for a heavy attack, but I can't tell because I have two lurchers that need to be interrupted or avoided.

Visually, there is so little feedback on the actualities of what's going on at times that hunkering behind a shield is not only an ideal strategy, it's THE ONLY strategy. The lack of visual feedback (with or without addons) is another can of worms altogether, and a complication that's going to be made WORSE considering blocking is about as good as pulling down my pants and bending over.

Maybe consider, for ONCE, making changes to PvP without affecting PvE.

I'd still like to be able to tank 4 wraiths (or, if my team is sucks that day, 6) to get the gold key in CoH.

This. Oh, and I play PvP too.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Leandor · July 2015

Food for thought: Make the "stamina regeneration stop while blocking" be a debuff tied to the Cyrodiil battle spirit thing. Voila, separated the PvP issue from PvE.

Junipus · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

I can't wait when they ignore this thread and still bring it in. Lol @ZOS lol

GamerzElite wrote: »

They gave new job to Templars.

Templars have always done this throwing shards to tanks using repentance etc its nothing a new job at all, and furthermore synergies have cooldowns, this is not going to be the solution

GL on HRC HM. Synergies you say? Sure, let me pop that shard and wipe the group. We'll be dead but at least I can have stamina to survive the boss a little longer.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

"No stamina regen while blocking will put a stop to the perma blockers. This is more directed toward PvP, but unfortunately will affect PvE as well."

"@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Please tell me you thought about this right and you guys have tanked end game content before? This decision will ruin PvE"

Even if you all haven't tanked end game content, I have.

Proof

Armor Values

Cost of Blocking

AA Hardmode

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I'm honestly tired of the unnecessary changes.

First of all, I've been pushing for emperor this week. I occasionally play a tank in PVP and enjoy it, most of all, in duels. Trust me, the problem isn't tanks, it is glass cannons one shotting players and then running away. A tank is a fun challenge because they have the power to disrupt a group, but can't cowardly run away. There is joy in bringing them down, but malice in taking down the degenerate one shot and done builds. You figure out which one is problematic and which one is fair.

Second of all Stop eviscerating well developed parts of the pve game for pvp game. I'm exhausted with the number of players and now, apparently, developers who totally forget about pve. A few days ago I made a thread about fixing certain issues with stamina dps that I see as problematic. The number of people telling me to learn how to avoid enemy attacks was staggering and especially so when I made no mention of pvp being the reason for my thoughts and actively told people that I didn't have pvp in mind when I thought of those changes to stamina dps.

Let players figure out how to bring down a tanks stamina, don't implement a game change to hand hold players who didn't make their build to kill the uncommon enemy. Second of all, if you are going to promote more degenerate glass cannon builds in pvp, then don't unfairly give the same treatment to pve players. I'm hopeful that the change in stamina regeneration while blocking isn't horrible, but I'm not holding my breath.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Anyway most of was actually fun and well thought out in this game was destroyed back in 1.6 .They can't really ruin this much further.

Quoted for emphasis. Thank you for showing me a beacon of sanity amongst the rabble.

GamerzElite · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

I can't wait when they ignore this thread and still bring it in. Lol @ZOS lol

GamerzElite wrote: »

They gave new job to Templars.

Templars have always done this throwing shards to tanks using repentance etc its nothing a new job at all, and furthermore synergies have cooldowns, this is not going to be the solution

I mean must have skill for templars, Saw many templar healer not using shards.

hydrocynus · July 2015

I don't understand this. A few versions ago they try to make drinks more viable but now that is too effective so they have to stop our regeneration while blocking?

It just doesn't make sense.

Axes, Wraiths, Hiath all by myself and poor healer on adds? And the rest of vet dsa?

No one even mentioned Manti.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

ZOS also had a flub with a stealth nerf on taunting. It was an incredible failure that was quickly reverted as all of pve was thrown into turmoil.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

GamerzElite wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I can't wait when they ignore this thread and still bring it in. Lol @ZOS lol

GamerzElite wrote: »

They gave new job to Templars.

Templars have always done this throwing shards to tanks using repentance etc its nothing a new job at all, and furthermore synergies have cooldowns, this is not going to be the solution

I mean must have skill for templars, Saw many templar healer not using shards.

the goal for tanks has always been self-sustain. Tanking is even becoming more than that now as tanks are starting to push their healing and dps.

A nerf to stamina regen will set tanking back months and months.

Nifty2g · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ZOS also had a flub with a stealth nerf on taunting. It was an incredible failure that was quickly reverted as all of pve was thrown into turmoil.

I wish they would just confirm if this is just for PvP or PvE as well.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ZOS also had a flub with a stealth nerf on taunting. It was an incredible failure that was quickly reverted as all of pve was thrown into turmoil.

I wish they would just confirm if this is just for PvP or PvE as well.

Even if it is going to happen, zos isn't the best at conveying what they plan do to.

Because of that failure in trust and communication, it is possible that a change to stamina regen while blocking isn't going to be a literal doomsday for tanking.

Hope for the best and plan for the worst.

asteldian · July 2015

Certainly an interesting change. Axes and manticore are the two fights that this will have big impact for. Other fights I rarely block anyway so not worried about that.

AngryNord · July 2015

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Apparently they don't want tanks in their game anymore.

Then we'll bring a real one to the battle. Dwarven tank, anyone?

One of these might be more effective

hydrocynus · July 2015

If they are going to make us less able to sustain massive damage then they better give us an awesome finisher that is useable after x successive blocks or something like that to make it more viable to tank in pvp.

Visemere · July 2015

surely they could just give you a hidden DEBUFF in PvP Zones, therefore negating the issue in PvE.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

asteldian wrote: »

Certainly an interesting change. Axes and manticore are the two fights that this will have big impact for. Other fights I rarely block anyway so not worried about that.

Better not miss holding the sometimes finicky block button down right before the warrior give you the old 10,000 cuts or the random elite trash from vdsa does the old uppercut or teleport aoe.

Storm_knight22 · July 2015

Y'know they could FINISH ALCHEMY and introduce Poisons of Ravage stamina. Solves the PVP issue while leaving PVE unaffected...

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »

Y'know they could FINISH ALCHEMY and introduce Poisons of Ravage stamina. Solves the PVP issue while leaving PVE unaffected...

You forget that players are only allowed to "counter" an issue in pvp when they are "countering" getting one shot by arrows and big swords. If it isn't one shotting you, then the devs must immediately step in and solve the "problem," such as block casting.

hydrocynus · July 2015

Or an enchantment on weapons that affects regeneration like diseased affects healing abilities. These would be better ways so that the clever players can debuff their opponents instead of everyone benefitting