PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Personofsecrets

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Anything to make this game have some level of difficulty i am all for, So yes to block changes. ( Main is a tank)

remove champion points from the game and we can start talking.

Personofsecrets

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Anything to make this game have some level of difficulty i am all for, So yes to block changes. ( Main is a tank)

So I have been playing ping-pong lately and paying attention to the olympic ping-pong committee. The committee recently decided that the game is too easy because players are just hitting ping-pong balls back and forth. Even though the game is uninteractive and boring now, they plan on implementing a rule in which players will have to use sponges or stainless steel bowls rather than their ping pong paddles. Some of the players objected to the change, saying that it would make ping-pong silly, but other players insisted that they would have to test the change before knowing for sure if it was good for the game, and other players said the change would be good no matter what because it would add a new level of difficulty to the game.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

Yep DKs and NB tanks will still be able to do something since they have a way to refill their own stam. Now templar tanks and sorc tanks? Yeah they will suck.

Remember people not every tank is a DK! Not every tank can use ultimates and earthen heart to refill stam. And not every tank wants to just stand there taunt and block and have no stamina at all to do anything else!! This is a change for the worse!

Tanking will become all about focusing on not doing anything but blocking and finding ways to refill stam. No more using stam based attacks at all. Magicka attacks or stand there doing nothing.

They claimed they want to make tanking more interesting. Well if all the tank was doing was perma blocking and taunting then they were not a very good tank to start with. But it looks like many builds will be forced into doing just that now.

This is doing nothing but putting a severe resource limit on tanks so they will not be able to do nearly as much. All for the sake of pvp. And anyone that believes this isnt about pvp is a fool.

Anyone that watched the video announcing all these changes should watch his face as he talks. He cant even keep a straight face while saying the stuff he said. He was chugging water like a nervous politician caught in a lie. Dont take anything he said at face value.

If they really wanted to make tanking more fun and dynamic they would have reworked the sword and shield line to have more interesting skills. They would change the heavy armor and one hand and shield passives to make things more interesting. But they dont do that stuff. They remove stamina while blocking. Now what logical person wanting to make tanking more fun and dynamic comes up with that idea? None thats who. This isnt about making tanking more fun it isnt about making tanking more dynamic. It is about removing defensive builds from pvp. Think about it as it is now. What is a true tank build going to do in pvp? they do no damage they are no threat to anyone. They can be easily ignored. However they get on the nerves of dps builds because they are very hard to kill. So better nerf them!

tpanisiakb16_ESO

I think it's important to continuously note that the people opposed to the tanking changes aren't arguing against challenging content, we're just against placing the burden of making something more difficult by crippling a certain percentage of us who enjoy our class roles. That's not how you fix the game or make it more interesting. That's just being lazy.

Even I admit the mechanics of bosses can usually be summed up into tank-and-spank, step out of red, kill periodically spawning adds, stack-and-heal, occasionally bash, whirlwind, etc. Veteran CoH and (especially) CoA became a nice change of pace as far as boss mechanics went. It was a special treat to wipe over and over on Ash Titan or Nerien’eth until we learned the tempo of things. I had a heck of a time with those encounters back in the day. Now? Not so much. What is currently bringing about some joy for me is getting my guild all their speed run / no-death achievements. It's great when a guildie begs us to run something like CoH because "I've wiped like 4 million times with this PUG" and be surprised that we can one-shot it and get them through with no hassle.

For me there's not much challenge in this game currently but I still find fun in doing the pledges (even though I need nothing and I'm stockpiling keys). The group I do these runs with constantly lament at wanting new vet dungeons though. More vDSA-style content for me and three other people, etc.

I worry that these changes are going to make once trivial or easy encounters into a giant cluster-F---, with DPS wondering just WTH the tank sucks and can't hold aggro on groups of mobs, etc. My guild is ready for it by the way, ready to change things up to meet this new artificial challenge. But I worry the PUGs with their lack of insight will have a worse time of it and lack of tanks in game already is about to become worse, thus turning people off from the game.

If instead of stamina not regening while blocking, why don't the developers make it so the cost of casting healing springs in short successions exponentially gets higher and that in order for the cost to return to normal you need to wait 5 seconds? Sounds ridiculous, right? It'll make content more challenging, I'm sure.

SickDuck

It's gonna be sooooo much fun to read back this thread in October. By the time people start complaining about the lack of challenge and difficulty...

Rinmaethodain

SickDuck wrote: »

It's gonna be sooooo much fun to read back this thread in October. By the time people start complaining about the lack of challenge and difficulty...

Yeah, when people will start complaining about lack of challenge and difficulty because of course, ZOS will ignore players feedback to leave PvE tanks alone and put everything to test server, where they will ignore it again and make it go live but.....

to compensate for lack of stamina regen, they will nerf all dungeons! Just like some people suggest here. This will start the complaints about lack of difficulty and challenge.

And all the tanks will then say "We told you so" and just laugh at those who told them to stfu when they pointed out all the flaws about 0 stamina regen when blocking.

Rinmaethodain

Also:

"http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/06/battlemasters-corner--the-unstoppable-juggernaut"

ESO client news "4 hours ago". Is ZOS mocking us?

Plaid13ub17_ESO

Yes they are mocking us. Hundreds of responses and 16 pages in this thread so far in just a couple days and not a single response from anyone oat ZOS. They are ignoring it on purpose. If they had anything to say that made any sense at all they would have said it. They know this change makes no sense. They know its not to make pve more interesting for tanks. They know its about pvp. Otherwise they would have said something.

If there was any sense behind this change at all they would have come and said something and explained it to us. Maybe something they left out and didnt tell us. But no it just makes no sense so they have nothing to say about it. No way to defend it. They will just ignore us and push it through. Because a few very limited builds on a couple classes will still be able to tank if they do nothing but taunt and block with all block cost reduction stuff that is good enough for them.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

Oh btw i hope i am horribly wrong and they realized the mistake and have compensated for this absurd change somehow. Maybe they fixed the heavy armor passive to give back stam when hit at a decent amount i dunno. But we can hope but dont hold your breath

SickDuck

MaximusDargus wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

It's gonna be sooooo much fun to read back this thread in October. By the time people start complaining about the lack of challenge and difficulty...

Yeah, when people will start complaining about lack of challenge and difficulty because of course, ZOS will ignore players feedback to leave PvE tanks alone and put everything to test server, where they will ignore it again and make it go live but.....

to compensate for lack of stamina regen, they will nerf all dungeons! Just like some people suggest here. This will start the complaints about lack of difficulty and challenge.

Fells like you're missing a point... but nevertheless I fear the same.

Actually it's not gonna be the case. More likely all players who want a game that requires more than 2 brain cells to play will just leave. The rest will struggle to complete a v1 scaled down gold key run in 2 hours and just cry for more nerfs. I guess that makes the whole qq valid.

Personofsecrets

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Also:

"http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/06/battlemasters-corner--the-unstoppable-juggernaut"

ESO client news "4 hours ago". Is ZOS mocking us?

What is mocking about it? I can't see because I keep getting an age gate when trying to access the article.

DDuke

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yes they are mocking us. Hundreds of responses and 16 pages in this thread so far in just a couple days and not a single response from anyone oat ZOS. They are ignoring it on purpose. If they had anything to say that made any sense at all they would have said it. They know this change makes no sense. They know its not to make pve more interesting for tanks. They know its about pvp. Otherwise they would have said something.

If there was any sense behind this change at all they would have come and said something and explained it to us. Maybe something they left out and didnt tell us. But no it just makes no sense so they have nothing to say about it. No way to defend it. They will just ignore us and push it through. Because a few very limited builds on a couple classes will still be able to tank if they do nothing but taunt and block with all block cost reduction stuff that is good enough for them.

Yes, listen to us since we cry the loudest! Ignore everyone else on this topic with valid rationale as to why these changes will be good for PvE and just listen to us, the QQ squad, even though we can't come up with a single good reason why this would be a bad thing and have never even tested the new changes.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Plaid13ub17_ESO

Clearly a pvp player that is pissed you cant run up and instant kill tanks. We have givin plenty of good reasons why this is a bad change. No one has come up with any why it would be good except pvp excuses. Sorry if a tank can counter your nightblade dps. Being strong defense is what a tank is built for. Its not like they do any real damage.

So you think tanks should not only do very little to no dps but they should also not have very good defense? where is the logic behind this?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

DDuke

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Clearly a pvp player that is pissed you cant run up and instant kill tanks. We have givin plenty of good reasons why this is a bad change. No one has come up with any why it would be good except pvp excuses. Sorry if a tank can counter your nightblade dps. Being strong defense is what a tank is built for. Its not like they do any real damage.

So you think tanks should not only do very little to no dps but they should also not have very good defense? where is the logic behind this?

Clearly you haven't read anything over the past few pages then.

Let me condense the possible* good effects of this change:

• Tanks can no longer tank everything, several mobs have to be CC'd or otherwise dealt by DPS or Healers, creating more strategic, fun gameplay, a move away from the "taunt everything & AoE" meta of PvE.
• More interactive & fun gameplay for tanks.
• Tanks should no longer be able to stay in DPS gear while tanking (and DPSing/Healing at the same time).
• More balanced PvP.

Possible* bad side effects:

• ...

*None of us has tested any of these changes yet in PTS, so we cannot know precisely how they will work out.
^
Another reason why this QQ thread amuses me.


Also for the record, even though I enjoy PvP as well, I'm more excited about this change PvE wise

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Personofsecrets

-bad effects

. meta will shift to need even more dps thus creating a more stale environment and unfun game
. less fun and interactive game play for tanks
. tanks will have to focus on just stamina rather than experiment with builds and skills
. less balanced pvp

-good effects
. ...

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

-bad effects

. meta will shift to need even more dps thus creating a more stale environment and unfun game

Explain why?

Personofsecrets wrote: »

. less fun and interactive game play for tanks

Possibly* not being able to hold block forever and having to time it instead is less interactive (and fun) than holding it pressed for the whole duration of encounter? Explain please.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

. tanks will have to focus on just stamina

Not true. If you play a DK, you will also have to focus on your magicka, since that gives you stamina back via Helping Hands passive. Also, you use magicka for multiple self buffs with every other class as well.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

. less balance pvp

With roll dodge nerf, BoL/Streak nerf, damage dealt/healing/dmg shield nerf, what makes you think so?

Personofsecrets wrote: »

-good effects
. ...

None of what I listed are good effects? Again, further elaborating could help your case here.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Clearly a pvp player that is pissed you cant run up and instant kill tanks. We have givin plenty of good reasons why this is a bad change. No one has come up with any why it would be good except pvp excuses. Sorry if a tank can counter your nightblade dps. Being strong defense is what a tank is built for. Its not like they do any real damage.

So you think tanks should not only do very little to no dps but they should also not have very good defense? where is the logic behind this?

Clearly you haven't read anything over the past few pages then.

Let me condense the possible* good effects of this change:

• Tanks can no longer tank everything, several mobs have to be CC'd or otherwise dealt by DPS or Healers, creating more strategic, fun gameplay, a move away from the "taunt everything & AoE" meta of PvE.
• More interactive & fun gameplay for tanks.
• Tanks should no longer be able to stay in DPS gear while tanking (and DPSing/Healing at the same time).
• More balanced PvP.

Possible* bad side effects:

• ...

*None of us has tested any of these changes yet in PTS, so we cannot know precisely how they will work out.
^
Another reason why this QQ thread amuses me.


Also for the record, even though I enjoy PvP as well, I'm more excited about this change PvE wise

Like i said you do not play a tank. Having no stamina dosnt mean fun. It means you cant use most of your attacks. That isnt fun. Tanks dont tank everything. You would know this if you were a tank. Tanks dont wear dps gear they wear tank gear... histbark and footman 99% of the time. You would know this if you did tank but you do not.

And yes PVP... clearly what you want is a nerf to tanks so you can kill them easy. so yes that is all bad.

List of bad effects.. Less people willing to play tanks when there is already a drastic shortage of tanks. Tanks not being able to do anything but manage stamina while blocking. Very restrictive builds allowed to be able to tank. Way less options on what a tank can do. Will be just tank and block and find ways to refill the stam bar. PVP will be even less balanced in favor of the dps. Tanks will have absolutely nothing to do in pvp without being able to block since they already cant do dps what the hell is the point of even being there?

To give you the benefit of the doubt you are purely a pvp player that is annoyed when you find someone you cant run up to and kill in a few seconds. Sorry but DPS should have a counter. And tanks are the traditional counter to dps. They cant chase you down and kill you quickly but if you are dumb enough to sit there and fight against a heavy defense tank they will wear you down if you are not careful. This is the whole role of the tank.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

DDuke

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Clearly a pvp player that is pissed you cant run up and instant kill tanks. We have givin plenty of good reasons why this is a bad change. No one has come up with any why it would be good except pvp excuses. Sorry if a tank can counter your nightblade dps. Being strong defense is what a tank is built for. Its not like they do any real damage.

So you think tanks should not only do very little to no dps but they should also not have very good defense? where is the logic behind this?

Clearly you haven't read anything over the past few pages then.

Let me condense the possible* good effects of this change:

• Tanks can no longer tank everything, several mobs have to be CC'd or otherwise dealt by DPS or Healers, creating more strategic, fun gameplay, a move away from the "taunt everything & AoE" meta of PvE.
• More interactive & fun gameplay for tanks.
• Tanks should no longer be able to stay in DPS gear while tanking (and DPSing/Healing at the same time).
• More balanced PvP.

Possible* bad side effects:

• ...

*None of us has tested any of these changes yet in PTS, so we cannot know precisely how they will work out.
^
Another reason why this QQ thread amuses me.


Also for the record, even though I enjoy PvP as well, I'm more excited about this change PvE wise

Like i said you do not play a tank. Having no stamina dosnt mean fun. It means you cant use most of your attacks. That isnt fun. Tanks dont tank everything. You would know this if you were a tank. Tanks dont wear dps gear they wear tank gear... histbark and footman 99% of the time. You would know this if you did tank but you do not.

Multiple people who do play tanks have posted on this thread and told you how wrong you are.

Also, while I may not play a tank myself, but I know well enough what their playstyle involves and how it effects mine as a DPS.

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

And yes PVP... clearly what you want is a nerf to tanks so you can kill them easy. so yes that is all bad.

Post is about tanking in PvE, so lets keep it about PvE. If you want to QQ about the effect of this on PvP, feel free to visit the Alliance War subforum (make sure to ignore changes to roll dodge, BoL/Streak, dmg dealt, shields & healing to stay constructive).

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

List of bad effects.. Less people willing to play tanks when there is already a drastic shortage of tanks. Tanks not being able to do anything but manage stamina while blocking. Very restrictive builds allowed to be able to tank. Way less options on what a tank can do. Will be just tank and block and find ways to refill the stam bar. PVP will be even less balanced in favor of the dps. Tanks will have absolutely nothing to do in pvp without being able to block since they already cant do dps what the hell is the point of even being there?

That is what tanking is in a MMO. You tank the enemies and manage your resources.
You are not some multi-purpose DPS Healer Tank hero doing everything and saving the day. That's not how it works in multiplayer games.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Master_Kas

I think they should atleast make it a 25-50% stam regen penalty Max , when using 1h shield.

Tough if this change goes through I guess My new dk can focus all on mana regen and spelldamage to Kill stuff faster and to use earthern heart skills to regain stam .

Hope ZOS doesn't make it 0 stam regen while using 1h shield.

Btw ZOS while Reading this thread =

Plaid13ub17_ESO

The few tanks that posted in this thread and not that i believe they really play tanks often all mentioned DK skills earthen heart and such to restore stamina. Templars have no such utility. Sorcs have no ability to regen stam like this. NB might be ok with their siphon ability. But templar and sorc tanks will suffer bad.

If they go through with this and all tanks can do is focus on blocking and finding ways to recover stam then way less people will play tanks because that is very boring and this is what they seem to be claiming to get rid of. If that is all your tank is doing it is a bad tank.

And no in other mmos tanks dont just sit there and take hits. They deal damage as well. often fairly good damage. In this tanks do what maybe 20-30% of the damage a dps does? Talking about true tanking end game content here not people that run dps sets to tank the real easy vet dungeons. But while tanking trials as it is there is very little room left for any attack skills even on the bar.

Personofsecrets

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

The few tanks that posted in this thread and not that i believe they really play tanks often all mentioned DK skills earthen heart and such to restore stamina. Templars have no such utility. Sorcs have no ability to regen stam like this. NB might be ok with their siphon ability. But templar and sorc tanks will suffer bad.

If they go through with this and all tanks can do is focus on blocking and finding ways to recover stam then way less people will play tanks because that is very boring and this is what they seem to be claiming to get rid of. If that is all your tank is doing it is a bad tank.

And no in other mmos tanks dont just sit there and take hits. They deal damage as well. often fairly good damage. In this tanks do what maybe 20-30% of the damage a dps does? Talking about true tanking end game content here not people that run dps sets to tank the real easy vet dungeons. But while tanking trials as it is there is very little room left for any attack skills even on the bar.

Not only is there the damage number, but also the extra damage done due to pierce armor if the tank is running it.

x93

I play a dedicated tank sword and board on both swaps pve "strictly" play.
2 seducer, 5 hist bark, 5 footman. I main tank for 2 guilds vdsa, ndsa, vdungeons, pledges, trials etc.
I enjoy playing as a tank! It's fun for me, and quite frankly if they go through with this I would definitely stop doing what
I love which is tanking. We NEED stamina regain while blocking and I cannot begin to express how bad it will be without it in pve. If tanks are saying they are bored tanking than I have reason to believe they are playing the wrong class or a dps disguised as one. Zos clearly was stoned when this idea was ever even thought of, because no way zos is that dumb unless this is for pvp "balance" which wins every race when put against pve.

Let's have tanks do their role and tank, keep the group alive.
I do crap damage already as a tank, and now they want to put a cap on me mitigating damage with blocking for the group I'm suppose to keep alive! That's all I/we got going for us. Taunt blocking is not the only thing tanks do ffs I hate hearing that lousy excuse, you clearly are not And will never be one for that reason if you think like that. We control the fights, positioning, mob management, constant on guard for threats popping up wherever it may be and so much more. We deal with a heck of a lot more than what people portrait us to be doing. You want to pick on tanks because it's easy? You try it, keep a trial or a vdsa alive and than tell me it's easy by just "taunt blocking", until that happens please don't speak for the sake of tanks. If boring is your argument dps should get nefed somehow, anyone can watch spongebob, eat mommies homemade pie and button mash 1 key and pull 100millions dps while sleeping, now that's gotta be boring. Simple fact is if tanking was so darn easy everyone would be doing it! But their aren't... So. That tells us something. Not many tanks right now, just wait if this goes live you'd be lucky to see enough to fill your right hand.

I thought I'd never see the day when people would complain about the person that keeps the heat off their squishy arses. Mind blown.

DDuke

x93 wrote: »

I play a dedicated tank sword and board on both swaps pve "strictly" play.
2 seducer, 5 hist bark, 5 footman. I main tank for 2 guilds vdsa, ndsa, vdungeons, pledges, trials etc.
I enjoy playing as a tank! It's fun for me, and quite frankly if they go through with this I would definitely stop doing what
I love which is tanking. We NEED stamina regain while blocking and I cannot begin to express how bad it will be without it in pve. If tanks are saying they are bored tanking than I have reason to believe they are playing the wrong class or a dps disguised as one. Zos clearly was stoned when this idea was ever even thought of, because no way zos is that dumb unless this is for pvp "balance" which wins every race when put against pve.

Let's have tanks do their role and tank, keep the group alive.
I do crap damage already as a tank, and now they want to put a cap on me mitigating damage with blocking for the group I'm suppose to keep alive! That's all I/we got going for us. Taunt blocking is not the only thing tanks do ffs I hate hearing that lousy excuse, you clearly are not And will never be one for that reason if you think like that. We control the fights, positioning, mob management, constant on guard for threats popping up wherever it may be and so much more. We deal with a heck of a lot more than what people portrait us to be doing. You want to pick on tanks because it's easy? You try it, keep a trial or a vdsa alive and than tell me it's easy by just "taunt blocking", until that happens please don't speak for the sake of tanks. If boring is your argument dps should get nefed somehow, anyone can watch spongebob, eat mommies homemade pie and button mash 1 key and pull 100millions dps while sleeping, now that's gotta be boring. Simple fact is if tanking was so darn easy everyone would be doing it! But their aren't... So. That tells us something. Not many tanks right now, just wait if this goes live you'd be lucky to see enough to fill your right hand.

I thought I'd never see the day when people would complain about the person that keeps the heat off their squishy arses. Mind blown.

It's not about tanking being easy, it's about tanking being so powerful that you can slot DPS or healing gear and still do it, while performing multiple other roles.

It's about tanking being so powerful, that it neuters other aspects of the game null & void (no CC'ing trash mobs, no strategies or anything, just run in & AoE while tank taunts everything).


I just get the impression that a tank who complains about his role changing & requiring a new aspect (resource management) can't be a good one.

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

The few tanks that posted in this thread and not that i believe they really play tanks often all mentioned DK skills earthen heart and such to restore stamina. Templars have no such utility. Sorcs have no ability to regen stam like this. NB might be ok with their siphon ability. But templar and sorc tanks will suffer bad.

So Templar/Sorc tanking might require changes (let's see PTS first). Ok.

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they go through with this and all tanks can do is focus on blocking and finding ways to recover stam then way less people will play tanks because that is very boring and this is what they seem to be claiming to get rid of. If that is all your tank is doing it is a bad tank.

Here we go with opinions again.

To me, that sounds way more interesting than being some general purpose spongebob throwing heals & DPS around while being a "tank" by holding right mouse button & hitting taunt every now & then.

If I started to play a tank, I would expect to play one. Not a DPS, not a healer.

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

And no in other mmos tanks dont just sit there and take hits. They deal damage as well. often fairly good damage. In this tanks do what maybe 20-30% of the damage a dps does? Talking about true tanking end game content here not people that run dps sets to tank the real easy vet dungeons. But while tanking trials as it is there is very little room left for any attack skills even on the bar.

No, but their main focus is tanking the enemies & keeping aggro on them. When there are too many enemies for one tank, then DPS/Healers use CC on additional targets, or an Off Tank is used.

This is how tanking works in other, more refined MMOs.

What tanking is not about: running in, taunting everything while rest of the group stacks in a big ball & AoEs everything down while a single tank is preventing them from dying by tanking everything that poses a danger.

Do you not realize how boring that is for, well, most of the group? One of the reasons most PvE guilds left this game last summer, after they got a taste of this game's end game PvE.

That is what happens when you don't put limits on what a tank can do.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

It's not about tanking being easy, it's about tanking being so powerful that you can slot DPS or healing gear and still do it, while performing multiple other roles.

It's about tanking being so powerful, that it neuters other aspects of the game null & void (no CC'ing trash mobs, no strategies or anything, just run in & AoE while tank taunts everything).


I just get the impression that a tank who complains about his role changing & requiring a new aspect (resource management) can't be a good one.

(let's see PTS first)

Here we go with opinions again.

If I started to play a tank, I would expect to play one. Not a DPS, not a healer.

Your first three points aren't a tank problem, it is a problem with dps being too high in the game. see what I did there?

lets not see this on the pts. it was proposed with a illegitimate reason and therefore doesn't deserve the light of day.

Opinions, like yours?

You mean the tanks who are focusing as tanks, but also using unstable flame or breath of life? 'Tanking gear' isn't just gear that literally has 'tanking gear' in its name.

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It's not about tanking being easy, it's about tanking being so powerful that you can slot DPS or healing gear and still do it, while performing multiple other roles.

It's about tanking being so powerful, that it neuters other aspects of the game null & void (no CC'ing trash mobs, no strategies or anything, just run in & AoE while tank taunts everything).


I just get the impression that a tank who complains about his role changing & requiring a new aspect (resource management) can't be a good one.

(let's see PTS first)

Here we go with opinions again.

If I started to play a tank, I would expect to play one. Not a DPS, not a healer.

Your first three points aren't a tank problem, it is a problem with dps being too high in the game. see what I did there?

lets not see this on the pts. it was proposed with a illegitimate reason and therefore doesn't deserve the light of day.

Opinions, like yours?

You mean the tanks who are focusing as tanks, but also using unstable flame or breath of life? 'Tanking gear' isn't just gear that literally has 'tanking gear' in its name.

"illegitimate reason", because you and three other tanks disagree with it out of sheer ignorance?

Ignorance. That is exactly what this thread is full of.

People pretending to know how these changes are good or bad for the game without testing them, let alone even knowing half of them.


As for "DPS being too high", I really dont see what you did there. I can get 11 complete noobs and bring them to do trials with their 4k DPS, and it's still going to be about tank rounding up everything he can taunt & rest AoEing the mobs down (however long it takes) with zero thought whatsoever.

Also, I'm quite sure "tanking gear" is not supposed to be focused around "+weapon dmg" or "+spell dmg", but things that actually make you the tank (+block mitigation, health etc), and tanking is supposed to be about... tanking, not dealing damage & taunting while holding block.

x93

Dduke I think you and I are talking about two different things. Your speaking of pvp and I pve. You simply cannot
Do that in veteran content or trails for that matter but in pvp yes I suppose and people abuse it. But I do not play pvp, I am strictly pve only load out tank all the way for pve. Try to slot heals keep the group up and dedicate tank vdsa at the same time, especially stage 10, Try it and tell me how that goes ok? Sorry not happening.

Source management really? You obviously never been a tank so you would know nothing about tank resource management.
About me being a good tank and all that's just your opinon I suppose. That's like me sayin your really crappy at your role even tho I have yet to see what you can do Ingame all based off a forum post. Ignorant opinion in my opinion.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It's not about tanking being easy, it's about tanking being so powerful that you can slot DPS or healing gear and still do it, while performing multiple other roles.

It's about tanking being so powerful, that it neuters other aspects of the game null & void (no CC'ing trash mobs, no strategies or anything, just run in & AoE while tank taunts everything).


I just get the impression that a tank who complains about his role changing & requiring a new aspect (resource management) can't be a good one.

(let's see PTS first)

Here we go with opinions again.

If I started to play a tank, I would expect to play one. Not a DPS, not a healer.

Your first three points aren't a tank problem, it is a problem with dps being too high in the game. see what I did there?

lets not see this on the pts. it was proposed with a illegitimate reason and therefore doesn't deserve the light of day.

Opinions, like yours?

You mean the tanks who are focusing as tanks, but also using unstable flame or breath of life? 'Tanking gear' isn't just gear that literally has 'tanking gear' in its name.

"illegitimate reason", because you and three other tanks disagree with it out of sheer ignorance?

Ignorance. That is exactly what this thread is full of.

People pretending to know how these changes are good or bad for the game without testing them, let alone even knowing half of them.


As for "DPS being too high", I really dont see what you did there. I can get 11 complete noobs and bring them to do trials with their 4k DPS, and it's still going to be about tank rounding up everything he can taunt & rest AoEing the mobs down (however long it takes) with zero thought whatsoever.

Also, I'm quite sure "tanking gear" is not supposed to be focused around "+weapon dmg" or "+spell dmg", but things that actually make you the tank (+block mitigation, health etc), and tanking is supposed to be about... tanking, not dealing damage & taunting while holding block.

I'll explain.

You can't separate all of the reasons why the game is easy from each other.

Is the game easier when tanks aren't dying because they failed an oh so skillful re-shield against a heavy attack? Sure. Is the game easier when dedicated dps are pulling 20k plus? Yes, indecisively.

Can the game be boring for tanks who chose to not use any abilities and only hold the right mouse button? Sure, it probably is for them and their friends. Is the game more boring when everyone, not just tanks, have been completing the same content since November? Yes, indecisively.

You may be quite sure about your notion of tanking, but I am positive of mine. Tanking gear is more than one persons preconceived notions of what tanking gear is. Tanking is a play style and different types of gear lend themselves to different styles of tanking. Sometimes tanks use Footman and sometimes they run, gasp, cyrodiils light.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

Again duke you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You do not play a tank and really have no idea what they do. No one tanks trials in dps gear. Again.. you dont know what you are talking about. People like you that are totally ignorant of tanking are the only ones speaking out saying this is a good change. People that only care about pvp. If blocking is that bad in pvp fine nerf it in pvp only.

It is clear you only care about being able to kill tanks in pvp and this is a pve thread. So yeah no one has any interest in your pvp non tank opinion.

Nifty2g

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again duke you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You do not play a tank and really have no idea what they do. No one tanks trials in dps gear. Again.. you dont know what you are talking about. People like you that are totally ignorant of tanking are the only ones speaking out saying this is a good change. People that only care about pvp. If blocking is that bad in pvp fine nerf it in pvp only.

It is clear you only care about being able to kill tanks in pvp and this is a pve thread. So yeah no one has any interest in your pvp non tank opinion.

he is a pvper what do you expect? if you do something different than what he believes you are all wrong and idiots

dodgehopper_ESO

What is confusing me about what you're saying DDUKE is you talk about Crowd Control as something necessary, and that all tanks do is stand there and block. Really? For starters Tanking is a form of Crowd Control that involves taking a beating for it. Secondly tanks do in fact use crowd control both to draw agro and to protect the team. I know many tanks who like to use Caltrops and/or Talons/Path to grab the alpha strikes and get mass enemy attention. This is exactly what you're talking about. This is also a lot more interesting to do than to stand there jaw agape and fight one very boring boss while the fight goes around you because you can only block against the one npc. I've done stupid boss swap mechanics in other games. I personally find it boring. To be fair I find most dungeon content boring after I've done it a number of times in any MMO honestly. Replayability is usually about doing pvp, with the occasional pve peppered in for flavor to me. That's just me though. I've done the dungeon rodeo before in other games and I understand it, and I wouldn't want that playstyle ruined for a lot of players. I've been tanking in a lot of games for a long time, and I think by now I'm pretty familiar with how tanking mechanics work even in very divergent games with very divergent game mechanics. Because of this I have a good sense how 0% regen will be bad for tanking. It might very well be doable, but it will also be extremely mind numbingly boring, and make the tank role a lot less versatile and interesting.

My suspicion is that they are designing the game to rely more heavily on spell resistance/armor resistance, and to have our pools chunk down more slowly with maxed out pools in these arenas. This might work, I'm just suggesting it will be a lot less interesting if we will be less able to afford chucking out those CC's/Taunts you spoke of earlier. I do think the topic has been going on ad nauseum for a bit though. We'll see what we'll see, and if it is really horrible I suspect changes will be made yet again. I'm under no delusion that MMO's are static systems (although in some cases it might be nice to have a game arrive at a relatively static and knowable system... like one can find in an SWG emu).