My initial reaction was bad and so I sat down and thought it over and I still hate the changes. We'll have to see once it hits PTS how much they just reamed BE but I will save my over reaction until then.

The problem is they also punished Sorcs who use Streak as an offensively ability more than an escape ability. While they did reduce damage and healing and shields (in a way that kind of cancels out the changes but whatever) didn't they also say that all melee abilities will be getting a damage buff? It was around the same time that Eric was talking about Volley and Dual Wield that he mentioned this.

I will adjust my playstyle like I always do when ZOS over reacts to whiners but honestly... so far it just seems like other people just hate that they don't have an escape and Sorcs do. "I die if I stupidly stay in a fight too long so why should Sorcs live? They should die too damnit *stops foot*" On the other side of things, I get it... Ball of Lightning morph is a pain in the ass sometimes but you know what... screw that Sorc... he'll be back (extremely likely) and you'll kill him then. OR You can just use charge abilities or speed enhancers to catch up and kill him.

I still believe if your entire strategy and build requires unlimited bolt escapes then maybe you just dont know how to play a sorc.

yes! reroll a nb and rely on cloak!
you will learn

The changes can basically be categorized into two categories:

• The ones affecting the Battle Spirit buff
• The ones not affecting the Battle Spirit buff
  
  I think it makes sense to look at those two categories individually, and here's why:
  
  The new Battle Spirit will reduce all damage, shield values and healing by 50% instead of only reducing the shield values by 15%. Meaning that all skills that have an effect on another player will be changed into the same direction, i.e. the changes do not nerf a particular type of skills but rather reduces the overall pace of combat by 50%. Yes a shield will only be able to protect you for half of what it used to but you will also only take 50% of the damage - the ressources expended on both sides will stay the same. The reduced combat speed doesn't change the importance of Magicka/Stamina Recovery but has a big impact on Health Recovery, since (as I believe) it doesn't go under healing and therefore basically doubles all health recovery stats in comparison to other health regenerating perks.
  The other changes have to be looked at individually, since they have a different purpose for each of their playstyles:
  
  Bolt Escape (50% scaling/use):
  
  This skill was mainly used to disengage and resposition from dangerous situation and sometimes to stun an enemy (especially rolldodgers). First off it has to be noted that combat will be overall 50% slower, so Sorcerers will have more time to regenerate Magicka/wait for the penalty to wear off, making the nerf less harmful than it may seem. Apart from that it won't prevent anybody from using Bolt Escape once or twice, but only very few will dare to use it to cover long distances. On the other side it has to be noted, that it already is possible to chase a disengaging mage by blockcasting a gapcloser, which doesn't have an increased cost.
  In the end I think the skill will still be widely used for early disengages/los'ing, but it will be much harder to escape chasing players.
  
  Rolldodge (33% scaling/use):
  
  Rolldodge is basically used to mitigate damage through 100% dodgechance and create some distance between the caster and the attacker. Since it's the only defensive ability of most stamina based builds being able to rely on it is key. I think it mostly depends on how long the penalty lasts. It will certainly make the Stamina Regeneration mundus stone very popular and might create and increased use of Evasion. Combined with the reduced AvA rank requirement of Vigor, there will be less rolldodging and more vigor spamming. In the end it will come down to who can best fill the open window of ones defense through effective use of other skills such as Evasion, Dark Cloak or Vigor. Meaning we might actually see some more hybrid Magicka Stamblades that use Dark Cloak to close the gap between the cheap rolldodges.
  
  Blockcasting (no Stamina Regeneration while blocking):
  
  As of now blocking is the most common way to mitigate damage, especially for tanks. While it will not be completely dead, it has to be used with much more care and thought. Combined with the nerf to the nirnhoned trait, I guess the ability to tank an exessive amount of players will be significantly reduced. As noted above the overall combat pace will be significantly reduced, which especially gives more importance to Health Regeneration, opening an opportunity for completely new builds. Apart from that or the coming new sets I do not see a way for full tank builds to reach the current level of mitigation, but I'm not the most experienced tank theorycrafter so it's quite possible that I missed one or the other thing.
  
  
  Thoughts?

The biggest issue with bolt escape is that for a lot of guys, we hardly use it to escape, we use it to be more agressive.

If the cost increase is stacked, then surely the damage that the streak morph does needs to be increased.

I think all sorcs will be vamps using Mist now is what I think. At least...what sorcs remain hahahah

always remember the basics:
dodge, dip, dive, duck, and dodge!

sorry for this post, i'm just going to work, and i feelt to have a little of fun in between.

BurtFreeman wrote: »

always remember the basics:
dodge, dip, dive, duck, and dodge!

sorry for this post, i'm just going to work, and i feelt to have a little of fun in between.

can you throw some wrenches at me and we can test it out?

Leandor wrote: »

Maybe it's worth trying to change their minds.

• Reduce healing by 50%
• Reduce damage by 25%
• Increase the health-buff, instead of gaining 4k, gain 15k on entering Cyrodiil
• Reduce Shields by 50% (you get more free health, so don't you dare)

So here :
You incent even more people to stack up max magicka/stamina and going with 0 bonus for Health pool. I don't think its what we want.
You make damages>>heals/shileds ie you don't need anything but spam one skill to kill. If you spam surprise attack for example, the ennemy wont be able to outheal/outshield a stupid spam which is stupid. Right now, you need a special rotation with cc t kill fast, or a more sustained dps with the use of dots and stuff to put enough pressure; if the heals got nerfed and not damages, you just need to spam 1 skill like a monkey.
I don't think we want that.

aco5712 wrote: »

my personal opinion on these changes:

Templar - Dead class
Nightblade - 1v1 King
Sorc - Struggle Street (ish)
DK - God mode activating again

Maybe I missed something, didn't watch the whole thing but why are Templars dead? Because of the reduced healing and shield reduction? I'd wait to see what other changes they have lined up, they mentioned that this was just a taste of what changes they're going to make.

The only time I've Streaked 10 times, is to get away from a NB who is Ambushing me 10 times.

c0rp wrote: »

I think all sorcs will be vamps using Mist now is what I think. At least...what sorcs remain hahahah

Yep, pretty much the case.

Feck it. They might as well remove the skill and give us something else at this point. 4 nerfs on the same skill.

1) Cost increase
2) AoE Cap
3) CC grants immunity
4) Cost increase stacks

Couple that with all gap closers being dirt cheap with 1.6 resource system and stamina builds being able to run you down anyway and yeah.... not much of an escape any more.

I remember all these NBs saying to me "if you think Cloak is so good, trade it for Bolt Escape". I'd like that trade now please, any takers? Yeah, thought so.

On another thought... In Diablo if you play Demon Hunter that has Cloak and a BE style teleport you see that you have:
1) A Hatred resource bar which is being consumed by your offensive abilities and
2) A Strategy resource bar which is consumed by your cloaks, teleports etc.

Thus running out of Strategy means you can still kill things before you die by using Hatred, or if you're running out of Hatred means you can still try to escape using Strategy, even though you can't really hurt things till you regen.

In ESO though a Sorc teleporting will run out of Magicka which is his universal resource. It means you can no longer escape, you can no longer heal and you can no longer attack. In ESO 1.7 if you're cought up by chasers after 3-4 BEs you might as well just wait for the respawn.

Anyone else think that Diablo handled this a lot better? At this point I'd prefer BE with longer range (outside of the range of charges) and a cooldown. Rather that than being chain-Crit Rushed till I run dry of my primary resource and then just keel over and die.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Healers will just outheal all the damage.

Thats fine as long a healer who is able todo that doesn't do severe damage ...
Thats how it should be, picking a role and not running around like superman hybrids.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

my personal opinion on these changes:

Templar - Dead class
Nightblade - 1v1 King
Sorc - Struggle Street (ish)
DK - God mode activating again

Maybe I missed something, didn't watch the whole thing but why are Templars dead? Because of the reduced healing and shield reduction? I'd wait to see what other changes they have lined up, they mentioned that this was just a taste of what changes they're going to make.

I will just copy and paste a portion of the post i just made on my thread

What is a magicka templar going to do now against a wrecking blow spamming nightblade or dk? He can't block that long as he will be out of stam instantly. He can dodgeroll a couple times but go out of stam. Both instances end in him getting wrecking blowed in the face and dead from executioner. Again I know it is annoying that DK and templar can hold block and have the capability to regen stamina with their abilities but honestly what else can they do? They have been given no class disengage as the sorc or NB. Those classes were given class shields as they are fighter type classes. So we nerf their ability to brawl, nerf sorc escape, buff NB cloak. I have been calling for a nb cloak fix but honestly feel there are better ways to go about fixing issues than breaking the battle mechanics that set this game apart @ZOS

link to the thread if youd like

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190184/lets-make-interactive-defensives-and-then-disable-them#latest

DDuke wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Maybe it's worth trying to change their minds.

• Reduce healing by 50%
• Reduce damage by 25%
• Increase the health-buff, instead of gaining 4k, gain 15k on entering Cyrodiil
• Reduce Shields by 50% (you get more free health, so don't you dare)

So here :
You incent even more people to stack up max magicka/stamina and going with 0 bonus for Health pool. I don't think its what we want.
You make damages>>heals/shileds ie you don't need anything but spam one skill to kill. If you spam surprise attack for example, the ennemy wont be able to outheal/outshield a stupid spam which is stupid. Right now, you need a special rotation with cc t kill fast, or a more sustained dps with the use of dots and stuff to put enough pressure; if the heals got nerfed and not damages, you just need to spam 1 skill like a monkey.
I don't think we want that.

Optimal balance would be that someone who has built specifically for dealing damage would be dealing same amount of damage with a rotation as damage shields/heals prevent, assuming the opponent has built for making those as strong as possible (full dmg vs full dmg prevention build scenario).

Now, if you had built for dealing insane damage, then of course you should deal atleast slightly more damage with a rotation than a shield/heal prevents, if the person you're facing is playing a very sustain focused build for instance.

Anything else leads into a scenario where person playing a sustain build can simply spam his shields/heals, while person playing full DPS runs out of resources, unable to kill sustain player (especially considering the increased TTK).

See that's where we disagree.

Because if you're full "DPS", by which you mean fully damage focused, you can still burst those regen builds down if you catch them unawares or in a normal XvX scenario where they can't keep track of all their surroundings.

They can't do that to you though, due to their lower damage.

So you want to have a 50/50 chance against a regen build in a 1v1 duel, while maintaining a huge tactical advantage in open PvP with your burst.

No dice from me.

You must've missed how they reduced all damage by 30%, meaning it's going to be way, way more difficult to burst someone down before they start spamming shields/heals (or get them from allies nearby). I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're likely running out of resources if you attempt such burst and fail in XvX, meaning you're dead (unlike sustain build).

Not really, read my edit.

And yes the price for a full glass cannon should be that if you fail on your burst you end up running out of your resources first against your opponent. And I say that as a "glass cannon" myself.

I don't see a semblance of balance in your POV.