Bolt Escape / Dodge / Blocking / Shields Nerf

Ezareth

Teargrants wrote: »

I'm sorry, using bolt escape within the 4 sec cooldown is not 'abusing the hell out of it'. The game is replete with gap closers which act as hard counters to the gap opener functionality of bolt escape. Without that functionality, sorc as a class is essentially neutered completely as the class has no viable melee range self heal. People like Fengrush work with limited use of bolt escape because he relies on dodge roll as the primary dmg mitigator.

Sorc will be pushed into either full light, fill regen, drink, atronach mundus build, or a stam build. My heavy armor builds will not be viable with these changes, the increased block efficiency does not help when my 9k stam pool doesn't regen. My energy orb heals will not be viable as they rely on me blocking and being stationary while their dot heals me, so I will be forever back to the boring healing was meta. I am fond of my unconventional sorc builds, but these changes pretty much poop all over them.

Before going on about bolt escape used as an escape, any stam build with a bow and speed boost can out run a blinking sorc and keep up with the sorc for as long as it tries to run. How do I know this? Because i have NBs doing it to me on a daily basis.

This! My VR4 nightblade can run for several minutes without running out of stam while keeping retreating manuevers active 100% of the time....it certainly has no problem keeping up with a bolt escaping sorc, especially when they have to sit there and let me hit them several times after they bolt 2 or 3 times until the bolt debuff wears off. I may have to actually stop hunting down sorcs because it's going to become the new equivalent to beating up on the fat kid at school.

I'm thinking Medium armor sorcs are going to become the new meta. Bolt Escape, Dodge roll > Sprint, Bolt Escape, Dodge roll sprint. It's just completely stupid.

Listening to Eric Wroebel was painful to me. Watching that video was painful. How can the guy in charge of combat mechanics have such terrible understanding of his own game. Regen is (as far as we know) untouched at this point. They're addressing symptoms of the problem instead of the problems themselves. Do they know that all magicka abilities right now (Except Bolt escape) have ZERO cost? Your regen keeps your magicka near 100%. How is that in any way balanced or desirable?

Just mind-boggling to me...

Ezareth

Master_Kas wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Do you even read what you're writing?
Firstly, 33% cost increase won't even have any impact unless it stacks. Damage and healing are reduced by 50%, remember?
Ez already rerolled NB at the start of 1.6...
And you know me - do you really believe I couldn't adapt to these changes and stay on top of my game?
I would also quit if they'd make Bolt Escape 50% cheaper and double the value of Hardened Ward, because they have just proven to have no idea what they're doing and are still unable to learn.

Did i speak to you?? It was ezareth on his nerf nb crusade.
As far as I know the cost increase will stack on dodgeroll too

Edit: just re-Read what I wrote and it was clearly Ez I quoted not you.
Also wrote that damage in cyro was nerfed in My original post so yes I know very well what I wrote.

It seem the players got exactly what they asked for:
Nerf to dodgeroll
Nerf to shields
Nerf to permablocking
Damage reduced in cyro.

Only thing that really brothers me is the 2 new vetranks.

Also no doubt you could Adapt and do well , you are a great player.
Dont know where you got that from since I did not say YOU cannot do it.

Sorry for bad writing. On a sh*tty iphone xD

Lol, please show me where I've *ever* asked for a nightblade nerf? You wont because it's never happened. Now, I freely admit I've said they are the most powerful class right now (Which coincidentally is why I'm playing one) but I've never asked for a nerf.

The only balance changes I suggested was changes to stamina cost reduction enchants and reducting regeneration of *all* resources in general as well as a fix to nirnhoned and unbreakable fear.

Unlimited resources contribute far more the the imbalances in this game than any other thing and yet they are not even mentioned in the changes.

The way they are correcting problems with the changes Eric mentioned are the programming equivalent of a bandaid. I bet a programmer could cover the entirety of the changes Sypher outlined in a single day. It just shows either a total lack of ability or complete laziness on the part of ZoS. I'm leaning towards them lacking the ability to make actual changes to their game...it has been pretty evident how difficult this has been for them since day one.

FENGRUSH

Ezareth wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Do you even read what you're writing?
Firstly, 33% cost increase won't even have any impact unless it stacks. Damage and healing are reduced by 50%, remember?
Ez already rerolled NB at the start of 1.6...
And you know me - do you really believe I couldn't adapt to these changes and stay on top of my game?
I would also quit if they'd make Bolt Escape 50% cheaper and double the value of Hardened Ward, because they have just proven to have no idea what they're doing and are still unable to learn.

Did i speak to you?? It was ezareth on his nerf nb crusade.
As far as I know the cost increase will stack on dodgeroll too

Edit: just re-Read what I wrote and it was clearly Ez I quoted not you.
Also wrote that damage in cyro was nerfed in My original post so yes I know very well what I wrote.

It seem the players got exactly what they asked for:
Nerf to dodgeroll
Nerf to shields
Nerf to permablocking
Damage reduced in cyro.

Only thing that really brothers me is the 2 new vetranks.

Also no doubt you could Adapt and do well , you are a great player.
Dont know where you got that from since I did not say YOU cannot do it.

Sorry for bad writing. On a sh*tty iphone xD

Lol, please show me where I've *ever* asked for a nightblade nerf? You wont because it's never happened. Now, I freely admit I've said they are the most powerful class right now (Which coincidentally is why I'm playing one) but I've never asked for a nerf.

The only balance changes I suggested was changes to stamina cost reduction enchants and reducting regeneration of *all* resources in general as well as a fix to nirnhoned and unbreakable fear.

Unlimited resources contribute far more the the imbalances in this game than any other thing and yet they are not even mentioned in the changes.

The way they are correcting problems with the changes Eric mentioned are the programming equivalent of a bandaid. I bet a programmer could cover the entirety of the changes Sypher outlined in a single day. It just shows either a total lack of ability or complete laziness on the part of ZoS. I'm leaning towards them lacking the ability to make actual changes to their game...it has been pretty evident how difficult this has been for them since day one.

It is always amazing how devs screw things up and do not consult the community. Then they will say they listened to the community because of these changes.

Where are the people that made the game when it was released out of beta. That was a pretty solid starting point.

DezIsDead

Ezareth wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

I'm sorry, using bolt escape within the 4 sec cooldown is not 'abusing the hell out of it'. The game is replete with gap closers which act as hard counters to the gap opener functionality of bolt escape. Without that functionality, sorc as a class is essentially neutered completely as the class has no viable melee range self heal. People like Fengrush work with limited use of bolt escape because he relies on dodge roll as the primary dmg mitigator.

Sorc will be pushed into either full light, fill regen, drink, atronach mundus build, or a stam build. My heavy armor builds will not be viable with these changes, the increased block efficiency does not help when my 9k stam pool doesn't regen. My energy orb heals will not be viable as they rely on me blocking and being stationary while their dot heals me, so I will be forever back to the boring healing was meta. I am fond of my unconventional sorc builds, but these changes pretty much poop all over them.

Before going on about bolt escape used as an escape, any stam build with a bow and speed boost can out run a blinking sorc and keep up with the sorc for as long as it tries to run. How do I know this? Because i have NBs doing it to me on a daily basis.

This! My VR4 nightblade can run for several minutes without running out of stam while keeping retreating manuevers active 100% of the time....it certainly has no problem keeping up with a bolt escaping sorc, especially when they have to sit there and let me hit them several times after they bolt 2 or 3 times until the bolt debuff wears off. I may have to actually stop hunting down sorcs because it's going to become the new equivalent to beating up on the fat kid at school.

I'm thinking Medium armor sorcs are going to become the new meta. Bolt Escape, Dodge roll > Sprint, Bolt Escape, Dodge roll sprint. It's just completely stupid.

Listening to Eric Wroebel was painful to me. Watching that video was painful. How can the guy in charge of combat mechanics have such terrible understanding of his own game. Regen is (as far as we know) untouched at this point. They're addressing symptoms of the problem instead of the problems themselves. Do they know that all magicka abilities right now (Except Bolt escape) have ZERO cost? Your regen keeps your magicka near 100%. How is that in any way balanced or desirable?

Just mind-boggling to me...

This is what I've been saying, their nerfing skills because regen is out of control. Nerfing skills doesn't fix the problem. ZOS has done nothing but band aid every issue the community has had. O lag? Well let's reduce pop caps instead of fixing it, o zergs too strong and "Zerg buster skill" benefits Zerg? Eh buff siege. Like wtf is the thought process that leads to this? It's like me saying man I'm unemployed with no money, so instead of fixing the problem "being unemployed" I'll just bum change on the street.

Ezareth

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Except I haven't touched my sorc in 2 months. My "Class" has been a nightblade for 2 months. I've always spoken as an ESO player and theorycrafter first, and a Sorc second. People want to see bias to excuse their own bias. You don't need to be a genius as well to see a spade for a spade, you need a pulse.

Dodge rolling isn't touched by this. Most of the top nightblades can absorb the increased cost of successive rolls because most of us aren't spamming dodge roll 3-4 times in a row and an the way cost increase percentages work is they are added after cost reduction enchants are applied and champion point reductions are applied at the end. What this means is a 33% increase isn't actually a 33% increase in your cost. I'd explain the math further but you're not really interested in numbers.

Please do . I hate Numbers but I'm interested.
Cannot write PM to you for some reason.

I'll check if you reply in the morning . Goodnight

Point is this. A single bolt escape for a sorc does nothing. I can't think of a time I only need to bolt escape once, unless I'm just using it to proc a Ball of Lightning to absorb spell projectiles. When I'm using bolt as a defensive ability to create distance or escape a zerg I'm using it at minimum 3 times, usually 4-5 times before I get a chance to stop and assess the situation. Every single time I stand might ground and fight against more than 1 person unless they're terrible I die quickly.

Dodge roll isn't bolt escape. There are times where you need to spam it 2 or 3 times but at worse case the cost increase is going to be less than the total cost of a single dodge roll without the penalty. In the hands of a skilled player, dodge roll is a *reactive* ability. You use it to escape damage from an ability you're aware of and you don't always have to use it consecutively. When I play on my nightblade I'll dodge roll an attack, use a crit charge>wrecking blow combo then use my cloak. I might have to dodge roll a couple of times if I have several people on me but Dodge roll has never been an escape, that is what Cloak is for, or my Retreating manuevers> Sprint combo and since Sorcs will no longer be able to chase me while I'm sprinting I see that becoming more powerful.

Keep in mind that cost increase modifications are actually reduced by 12.3% as well.

Here is how a maximum dodge roll reduction player (Full medium, 3 stamina cost reduction enchants, maximum tumbling) will see his cost increase compared to a maximum spell cost reduction player using (Full Light armor, 3 Magicka cost reduction enchants). I'm ignoring Archmage/Seducer since their reduction is a static linear reduction and there is no stamina cost reduction equivalent. If you want to figure in Archmage/Seducer (which can only be used with sword+board out) then you reduce each cast of Bolt Escape by 308.

Bolt Escape
Base Cost 3351
Maximum Reduction 1697

First Cast/Second/Third/etc...
1697>2661>3625>4589>5553 = 18125

Dodge Roll
Base Cost 3591
Maximum Reduction 1752

First Roll/Second/Third/etc...
1752>2423>3095>3767>4439 = 15476

Basically Bolt escape consecutive casts add another 965 magicka to each case in a best case scenario and consecutive dodge rolls add 672 to each consecutive roll ad infinitum. You can get a lot more consecutive dodge rolls out of a stamina bar than you can bolt escapes out of magicka bar but a sorc has no other alternative abilities he can use in between bolt escapes to reset the timer unless he's misting.

Sentinel

Sypher wrote: »

The 50% increase to bolt escape will now stack indefinitely after every repeated streak.

Dodge Roll will have a 33% increase to cost after every dodge.

You no longer regen stamina while blocking.

Battle Spirit Buff: 50% Reduced Damage and 50% Reduced Healing 50% Reduced Shields (Increased from 20%)

Discuss.

Nice to see these changes. With halved everything, fights should be longer. Looks like dodge roll, block and BE are now meant to be used as situational defensive skills rather than overall defensive skills. Might actually help distinguish those who can adapt and learn to use them from those who only know how to spam/hold each- add in a skill factor. Sounds good, cant wait to test them on the PTS and see what happens.

TheLaw

Time to drop my sorc as main, NB time!

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

Given all the fingerpointing given regens, do ppl think softcaps should be reintroduced because seems like outright removing them opened up a huge can of worms. I don't have as much of a stake in endgame to go completely ballistic at the slightest patch change, so most of this comes and goes for me and I just either stick with what I like personally or try tweaking a few things. Should regens and reductions have a flat cap similar to some abilities not being able to be completely cost-negated? I'm wondering if alot of the reduction stars should be switched with some of the passives and you have a flat reduc/regen bonus as a passive star and some of the odder ones as incrementals. As much as people blast ZOS for this, this is kind of untread territory for this sort of game considering in many older ES games it was entirely possible to stack reduction/regen out the nose. No other MMO I've played had this sort of problem because they just did not allow this sort of customization, or if such tweaks were determined, the developer swiftly removed these abilities outright.

It's sounding like damned if you do damned if you don't, but I'm going to leave this to the nitpickers until PTS comes live.

Happy 4th!!

Septimus_Magna

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The bolt escape nerf is all about punishing people who disengage but what about stamina sorcs that use it offensively???

I propose the following change. This will allow stam sorcs, (who got a tiny shoutout by eric in the last eso live), to actually use the ability.

Streak Morph of Bolt Escape:

- Attacking a target with a MELEE attack removes the cooldown (50% stacking cost) timer.

• This would make bolt escape usable for stamina sorcs.
• As long as you get a hit in one someone it proves you are still in the fight and you should be able to bolt again with no increase of cost. Its already stupid expensive for stam sorc.
• It would also allow stam sorcs to use the ability they way they actually want to use it, for gap closing and to STAY IN THE FIGHT with superior positioning - Not to run away.
• As soon as you run away and cast a second BE without a melee attack in between, the cost increases
• This will make the streak morph more attractive as well since everyone uses the other one

Stam sorcs are maybe 3% of all sorcs, why make changes to BE for only a hand full of sorcs?

The idea of resetting the increases cost afther an attack would seem very logical.
People tend to hate sorcs who bolt away during fights so that needs to ne nerfed, not streak in general.

I use streak to stun enemies rather than bolt away, with my high spell dmg build I cant streak long because I have low regen. The changes would punnish all sorcs because some can streak a lot, this is just stupid. Fix insane regen builds who have 2.5k magicka regen not the skill they spam.

Armitas

I feel like using battle spirit to help balance cyrodiil is going to have problems. With 4 classes and many different builds between them relying on global turn knobs is going to be imprecise. Take the shield nerf, healing is already nerfed, now by nerfing shields by 20% you are nerfing healing ward, and thereby nerfing healing even more.

If this was pve they would be inside every class and weapon to try to get it balanced right, but when it comes to PvP they just turn a few turn knobs and walk behind the glass to watch rather than deal with the source of the issue directly.

Bashev

Armitas wrote: »

I feel like using battle spirit to help balance cyrodiil is going to have problems. With 4 classes and many different builds between them relying on global turn knobs is going to be imprecise. Take the shield nerf, healing is already nerfed, now by nerfing shields by 20% you are nerfing healing ward, and thereby nerfing healing even more.

If this was pve they would be inside every class and weapon to try to get it balanced right, but when it comes to PvP they just turn a few turn knobs and walk behind the glass to watch rather than deal with the issue directly.

We dont know the rest of the changes. A lot of skills will be changed.

kevlarto_ESO

DezIsDead wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

I'm sorry, using bolt escape within the 4 sec cooldown is not 'abusing the hell out of it'. The game is replete with gap closers which act as hard counters to the gap opener functionality of bolt escape. Without that functionality, sorc as a class is essentially neutered completely as the class has no viable melee range self heal. People like Fengrush work with limited use of bolt escape because he relies on dodge roll as the primary dmg mitigator.

Sorc will be pushed into either full light, fill regen, drink, atronach mundus build, or a stam build. My heavy armor builds will not be viable with these changes, the increased block efficiency does not help when my 9k stam pool doesn't regen. My energy orb heals will not be viable as they rely on me blocking and being stationary while their dot heals me, so I will be forever back to the boring healing was meta. I am fond of my unconventional sorc builds, but these changes pretty much poop all over them.

Before going on about bolt escape used as an escape, any stam build with a bow and speed boost can out run a blinking sorc and keep up with the sorc for as long as it tries to run. How do I know this? Because i have NBs doing it to me on a daily basis.

This! My VR4 nightblade can run for several minutes without running out of stam while keeping retreating manuevers active 100% of the time....it certainly has no problem keeping up with a bolt escaping sorc, especially when they have to sit there and let me hit them several times after they bolt 2 or 3 times until the bolt debuff wears off. I may have to actually stop hunting down sorcs because it's going to become the new equivalent to beating up on the fat kid at school.

I'm thinking Medium armor sorcs are going to become the new meta. Bolt Escape, Dodge roll > Sprint, Bolt Escape, Dodge roll sprint. It's just completely stupid.

Listening to Eric Wroebel was painful to me. Watching that video was painful. How can the guy in charge of combat mechanics have such terrible understanding of his own game. Regen is (as far as we know) untouched at this point. They're addressing symptoms of the problem instead of the problems themselves. Do they know that all magicka abilities right now (Except Bolt escape) have ZERO cost? Your regen keeps your magicka near 100%. How is that in any way balanced or desirable?

Just mind-boggling to me...

This is what I've been saying, their nerfing skills because regen is out of control. Nerfing skills doesn't fix the problem. ZOS has done nothing but band aid every issue the community has had. O lag? Well let's reduce pop caps instead of fixing it, o zergs too strong and "Zerg buster skill" benefits Zerg? Eh buff siege. Like wtf is the thought process that leads to this? It's like me saying man I'm unemployed with no money, so instead of fixing the problem "being unemployed" I'll just bum change on the street.

Yes regen is out of control and part of the problem. as why we have infinite abilities, most all other mmo's have caps for a reason or extreme diminishing returns, combine the regen, with cp points things get crazy.

Soulac

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

DezIsDead wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

I'm sorry, using bolt escape within the 4 sec cooldown is not 'abusing the hell out of it'. The game is replete with gap closers which act as hard counters to the gap opener functionality of bolt escape. Without that functionality, sorc as a class is essentially neutered completely as the class has no viable melee range self heal. People like Fengrush work with limited use of bolt escape because he relies on dodge roll as the primary dmg mitigator.

Sorc will be pushed into either full light, fill regen, drink, atronach mundus build, or a stam build. My heavy armor builds will not be viable with these changes, the increased block efficiency does not help when my 9k stam pool doesn't regen. My energy orb heals will not be viable as they rely on me blocking and being stationary while their dot heals me, so I will be forever back to the boring healing was meta. I am fond of my unconventional sorc builds, but these changes pretty much poop all over them.

Before going on about bolt escape used as an escape, any stam build with a bow and speed boost can out run a blinking sorc and keep up with the sorc for as long as it tries to run. How do I know this? Because i have NBs doing it to me on a daily basis.

This! My VR4 nightblade can run for several minutes without running out of stam while keeping retreating manuevers active 100% of the time....it certainly has no problem keeping up with a bolt escaping sorc, especially when they have to sit there and let me hit them several times after they bolt 2 or 3 times until the bolt debuff wears off. I may have to actually stop hunting down sorcs because it's going to become the new equivalent to beating up on the fat kid at school.

I'm thinking Medium armor sorcs are going to become the new meta. Bolt Escape, Dodge roll > Sprint, Bolt Escape, Dodge roll sprint. It's just completely stupid.

Listening to Eric Wroebel was painful to me. Watching that video was painful. How can the guy in charge of combat mechanics have such terrible understanding of his own game. Regen is (as far as we know) untouched at this point. They're addressing symptoms of the problem instead of the problems themselves. Do they know that all magicka abilities right now (Except Bolt escape) have ZERO cost? Your regen keeps your magicka near 100%. How is that in any way balanced or desirable?

Just mind-boggling to me...

This is what I've been saying, their nerfing skills because regen is out of control. Nerfing skills doesn't fix the problem. ZOS has done nothing but band aid every issue the community has had. O lag? Well let's reduce pop caps instead of fixing it, o zergs too strong and "Zerg buster skill" benefits Zerg? Eh buff siege. Like wtf is the thought process that leads to this? It's like me saying man I'm unemployed with no money, so instead of fixing the problem "being unemployed" I'll just bum change on the street.

Yes regen is out of control and part of the problem. as why we have infinite abilities, most all other mmo's have caps for a reason or extreme diminishing returns, combine the regen, with cp points things get crazy.

They have cooldowns.

Soris

Softcaps were the cooldowns of this game. Raising them and then removing them was obviously not good.

olsborg

Personally feel the bolt escape nerf is too strict, sure atm bolt escape is out of control, but a 50% increase in cost that stack indefinately, pretty much ruins the use of the skill, make it 25% and atleast you can use it 2 or 3 times without gimping your mana during a fight.

Master_Kas

Ezareth wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Except I haven't touched my sorc in 2 months. My "Class" has been a nightblade for 2 months. I've always spoken as an ESO player and theorycrafter first, and a Sorc second. People want to see bias to excuse their own bias. You don't need to be a genius as well to see a spade for a spade, you need a pulse.

Dodge rolling isn't touched by this. Most of the top nightblades can absorb the increased cost of successive rolls because most of us aren't spamming dodge roll 3-4 times in a row and an the way cost increase percentages work is they are added after cost reduction enchants are applied and champion point reductions are applied at the end. What this means is a 33% increase isn't actually a 33% increase in your cost. I'd explain the math further but you're not really interested in numbers.

Please do . I hate Numbers but I'm interested.
Cannot write PM to you for some reason.

I'll check if you reply in the morning . Goodnight

Point is this. A single bolt escape for a sorc does nothing. I can't think of a time I only need to bolt escape once, unless I'm just using it to proc a Ball of Lightning to absorb spell projectiles. When I'm using bolt as a defensive ability to create distance or escape a zerg I'm using it at minimum 3 times, usually 4-5 times before I get a chance to stop and assess the situation. Every single time I stand might ground and fight against more than 1 person unless they're terrible I die quickly.

Dodge roll isn't bolt escape. There are times where you need to spam it 2 or 3 times but at worse case the cost increase is going to be less than the total cost of a single dodge roll without the penalty. In the hands of a skilled player, dodge roll is a *reactive* ability. You use it to escape damage from an ability you're aware of and you don't always have to use it consecutively. When I play on my nightblade I'll dodge roll an attack, use a crit charge>wrecking blow combo then use my cloak. I might have to dodge roll a couple of times if I have several people on me but Dodge roll has never been an escape, that is what Cloak is for, or my Retreating manuevers> Sprint combo and since Sorcs will no longer be able to chase me while I'm sprinting I see that becoming more powerful.

Keep in mind that cost increase modifications are actually reduced by 12.3% as well.

Here is how a maximum dodge roll reduction player (Full medium, 3 stamina cost reduction enchants, maximum tumbling) will see his cost increase compared to a maximum spell cost reduction player using (Full Light armor, 3 Magicka cost reduction enchants). I'm ignoring Archmage/Seducer since their reduction is a static linear reduction and there is no stamina cost reduction equivalent. If you want to figure in Archmage/Seducer (which can only be used with sword+board out) then you reduce each cast of Bolt Escape by 308.

Bolt Escape
Base Cost 3351
Maximum Reduction 1697

First Cast/Second/Third/etc...
1697>2661>3625>4589>5553 = 18125

Dodge Roll
Base Cost 3591
Maximum Reduction 1752

First Roll/Second/Third/etc...
1752>2423>3095>3767>4439 = 15476

Basically Bolt escape consecutive casts add another 965 magicka to each case in a best case scenario and consecutive dodge rolls add 672 to each consecutive roll ad infinitum. You can get a lot more consecutive dodge rolls out of a stamina bar than you can bolt escapes out of magicka bar but a sorc has no other alternative abilities he can use in between bolt escapes to reset the timer unless he's misting.

Hm yes I see now what you mean.
We'll see what happens since knowing ZOS they always break something with their patches.

Overall I still think people who aren't very good will run out of resources spamming roll (like I've seen alot doing these days)

Also keep in mind that there is no penalty with cost increase/no mana regen while stacking shields. Even with the 35% nerf to shields, (15% to 50%) sorcs will have the best defensive mechanism in that update.

Personally I think sorcs with shieldstacking and magicka NBs permacloaking will be the topdogs in that update. But I can be wrong since sorcs cannot streak as much. Only time will tell.

The streak/BE nerf was stupid though in My opinion .

Bromburak

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Stam sorcs are maybe 3% of all sorcs, why make changes to BE for only a hand full of sorcs?

Source?

You might didn't notice but right now you are doing the same thing that some designers do, doing changes based on assumptions , false statistics and questionable feedback.

As well it doesn't matter if its 3%, 10 or 20% for a designer its important to find out why something is not fun to play to improve this lack of choice ...

Soris

I just can't understand one thing. Heavy armor builds mostly tend to use 1h&s somewhere in their builds as main or secondary weapon. It has bonus to that and yet if you use your shield you will be screwed after couple blocks. This just don't make sense!

I'm hoping they will finally add some logic inside, reduce that amount to something 50% or 25% when wearing 5 heavy armor and reduce cost of blocking.

Or just make it equal as dodge and bolt treatment ffs. Cut regen for 50% I don't really mind but not 100%.

bosmern_ESO

The blocking nerf and roll dodge nerf really needed to be done.

Shield stacking and bolt escape were made to kill Sorcs, their only defense is shields and getting away from their enemy before they die.

NotSo

I feel like bonuses towards blocking should be strictly coming from heavy armor. It'd open up more playstyles for tanking. 1h/s already has some really good offensive abilities, why does it also have to be the best defensive.

While I think sapping stam regen while blocking is fine, blocking shouldn't cost as much.

AlexDrago

TESO TU - play as you want ( of course if you are not sorc)
Farewell, my sorc, you work well for me. Now it's time to rest, let your NB cousin start.

LegendaryMage

AlexDrago wrote: »

TESO TU - play as you want ( of course if you are not sorc)
Farewell, my sorc, you work well for me. Now it's time to rest, let your NB cousin start.

Looks like I might be joining the rogue club too. Caster NB here I come!

RadioheadSh0t

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Do you even read what you're writing?
Firstly, 33% cost increase won't even have any impact unless it stacks. Damage and healing are reduced by 50%, remember?
Ez already rerolled NB at the start of 1.6...
And you know me - do you really believe I couldn't adapt to these changes and stay on top of my game?
I would also quit if they'd make Bolt Escape 50% cheaper and double the value of Hardened Ward, because they have just proven to have no idea what they're doing and are still unable to learn.

Did i speak to you?? It was ezareth on his nerf nb crusade.
As far as I know the cost increase will stack on dodgeroll too

Edit: just re-Read what I wrote and it was clearly Ez I quoted not you.
Also wrote that damage in cyro was nerfed in My original post so yes I know very well what I wrote.

It seem the players got exactly what they asked for:
Nerf to dodgeroll
Nerf to shields
Nerf to permablocking
Damage reduced in cyro.

Only thing that really brothers me is the 2 new vetranks.

Also no doubt you could Adapt and do well , you are a great player.
Dont know where you got that from since I did not say YOU cannot do it.

Sorry for bad writing. On a sh*tty iphone xD

Lol, please show me where I've *ever* asked for a nightblade nerf? You wont because it's never happened. Now, I freely admit I've said they are the most powerful class right now (Which coincidentally is why I'm playing one) but I've never asked for a nerf.

The only balance changes I suggested was changes to stamina cost reduction enchants and reducting regeneration of *all* resources in general as well as a fix to nirnhoned and unbreakable fear.

Unlimited resources contribute far more the the imbalances in this game than any other thing and yet they are not even mentioned in the changes.

The way they are correcting problems with the changes Eric mentioned are the programming equivalent of a bandaid. I bet a programmer could cover the entirety of the changes Sypher outlined in a single day. It just shows either a total lack of ability or complete laziness on the part of ZoS. I'm leaning towards them lacking the ability to make actual changes to their game...it has been pretty evident how difficult this has been for them since day one.

It is always amazing how devs screw things up and do not consult the community. Then they will say they listened to the community because of these changes.

Where are the people that made the game when it was released out of beta. That was a pretty solid starting point.

They are listening to the community... The console community noobs who are getting wrecked by the transfers and QQ like there's no tomorrow.

Those PC players who have paid subs since launch and have a firm understanding of the game? They don't give two shytes about.

Derra

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The bolt escape nerf is all about punishing people who disengage but what about stamina sorcs that use it offensively???

I propose the following change. This will allow stam sorcs, (who got a tiny shoutout by eric in the last eso live), to actually use the ability.

Streak Morph of Bolt Escape:

- Attacking a target with a MELEE attack removes the cooldown (50% stacking cost) timer.

• This would make bolt escape usable for stamina sorcs.
• As long as you get a hit in one someone it proves you are still in the fight and you should be able to bolt again with no increase of cost. Its already stupid expensive for stam sorc.
• It would also allow stam sorcs to use the ability they way they actually want to use it, for gap closing and to STAY IN THE FIGHT with superior positioning - Not to run away.
• As soon as you run away and cast a second BE without a melee attack in between, the cost increases
• This will make the streak morph more attractive as well since everyone uses the other one

Stam sorcs are maybe 3% of all sorcs, why make changes to BE for only a hand full of sorcs?

The idea of resetting the increases cost afther an attack would seem very logical.
People tend to hate sorcs who bolt away during fights so that needs to ne nerfed, not streak in general.

I use streak to stun enemies rather than bolt away, with my high spell dmg build I cant streak long because I have low regen. The changes would punnish all sorcs because some can streak a lot, this is just stupid. Fix insane regen builds who have 2.5k magicka regen not the skill they spam.

I´ve suggested this when the original bolt escape nerf went live. Streak was once a main damaging ability for sorcerers (thats why they could live with not isntant cast dd in the first place).
Give the streak morph the addition that when you actually HIT the enemy player you don´t get increased costs on the next ability use making it a vaible offensive skillchoice like it once was.

Jahosefat

Derra wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The bolt escape nerf is all about punishing people who disengage but what about stamina sorcs that use it offensively???

I propose the following change. This will allow stam sorcs, (who got a tiny shoutout by eric in the last eso live), to actually use the ability.

Streak Morph of Bolt Escape:

- Attacking a target with a MELEE attack removes the cooldown (50% stacking cost) timer.

• This would make bolt escape usable for stamina sorcs.
• As long as you get a hit in one someone it proves you are still in the fight and you should be able to bolt again with no increase of cost. Its already stupid expensive for stam sorc.
• It would also allow stam sorcs to use the ability they way they actually want to use it, for gap closing and to STAY IN THE FIGHT with superior positioning - Not to run away.
• As soon as you run away and cast a second BE without a melee attack in between, the cost increases
• This will make the streak morph more attractive as well since everyone uses the other one

Stam sorcs are maybe 3% of all sorcs, why make changes to BE for only a hand full of sorcs?

The idea of resetting the increases cost afther an attack would seem very logical.
People tend to hate sorcs who bolt away during fights so that needs to ne nerfed, not streak in general.

I use streak to stun enemies rather than bolt away, with my high spell dmg build I cant streak long because I have low regen. The changes would punnish all sorcs because some can streak a lot, this is just stupid. Fix insane regen builds who have 2.5k magicka regen not the skill they spam.

I´ve suggested this when the original bolt escape nerf went live. Streak was once a main damaging ability for sorcerers (thats why they could live with not isntant cast dd in the first place).
Give the streak morph the addition that when you actually HIT the enemy player you don´t get increased costs on the next ability use making it a vaible offensive skillchoice like it once was.

^ this would be cool, or drop the cc immunity granted by streak

eliisra

Soris wrote: »

I just can't understand one thing. Heavy armor builds mostly tend to use 1h&s somewhere in their builds as main or secondary weapon. It has bonus to that and yet if you use your shield you will be screwed after couple blocks. This just don't make sense!

I'm hoping they will finally add some logic inside, reduce that amount to something 50% or 25% when wearing 5 heavy armor and reduce cost of blocking.

Or just make it equal as dodge and bolt treatment ffs. Cut regen for 50% I don't really mind but not 100%.

They have to re-design both S&B and heavy armor.

People us it for the Fortress + Bracing passive to reduce block cost. Not worth it for the actual armor increase, due to spell/armor penetration stacking, making everyone naked as far as mitigation goes. I take full dmg from Steel Tornado mace trains 7 days a week already, while in 5+ heavy and self-buffed. Fixing nirn, the same will be true for Proxi blobs. So yeah, at least you get some block cost reduction right?

But if blocking cancels your entire stam recovery, those passives looks a lot less attractive. Mainly because they boost a playstyle that's no longer is viable in PvP or blocking pro-actively. I'm guessing turtle up and spamming defensive skills mainly, only block reactively or in emergency, will be more functional. Than you dont need that much block cost reduction.

So what will be the benefit of using heavy or shield next patch I wonder. Because I doubt they ever balance penetration values

I really like the idea of those passives allowing moderate recovery for heavy users tho, that could actually work.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The bolt escape nerf is all about punishing people who disengage but what about stamina sorcs that use it offensively???

I propose the following change. This will allow stam sorcs, (who got a tiny shoutout by eric in the last eso live), to actually use the ability.

Streak Morph of Bolt Escape:

- Attacking a target with a MELEE attack removes the cooldown (50% stacking cost) timer.

• This would make bolt escape usable for stamina sorcs.
• As long as you get a hit in one someone it proves you are still in the fight and you should be able to bolt again with no increase of cost. Its already stupid expensive for stam sorc.
• It would also allow stam sorcs to use the ability they way they actually want to use it, for gap closing and to STAY IN THE FIGHT with superior positioning - Not to run away.
• As soon as you run away and cast a second BE without a melee attack in between, the cost increases
• This will make the streak morph more attractive as well since everyone uses the other one

Stam sorcs are maybe 3% of all sorcs, why make changes to BE for only a hand full of sorcs?

The idea of resetting the increases cost afther an attack would seem very logical.
People tend to hate sorcs who bolt away during fights so that needs to ne nerfed, not streak in general.

I use streak to stun enemies rather than bolt away, with my high spell dmg build I cant streak long because I have low regen. The changes would punnish all sorcs because some can streak a lot, this is just stupid. Fix insane regen builds who have 2.5k magicka regen not the skill they spam.

I´ve suggested this when the original bolt escape nerf went live. Streak was once a main damaging ability for sorcerers (thats why they could live with not isntant cast dd in the first place).
Give the streak morph the addition that when you actually HIT the enemy player you don´t get increased costs on the next ability use making it a vaible offensive skillchoice like it once was.

You don't think this will make Streak a morph like Breath of Life or Crystal Fragments where there is only one choice? Right now I think the morph between Streak and Ball of Lightning is competitive. If I think BoL is better, that's mostly because I mostly use the ability in its intended function (escape) and I still see enough sorcs - good ones - who use streak to tell me that both are viable.

If BoL gets the ZoS nerf and Streak gets your suggestion, I would always take Streak. This comes from a perspective from someone who 9 times out of 10 has used the ability in a defensive matter.

But then again, this comes from someone who will have a magicka NB all VR14, ehh VR16 [*gasp*], ready to go for this new update...

DDuke

eliisra wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

I just can't understand one thing. Heavy armor builds mostly tend to use 1h&s somewhere in their builds as main or secondary weapon. It has bonus to that and yet if you use your shield you will be screwed after couple blocks. This just don't make sense!

I'm hoping they will finally add some logic inside, reduce that amount to something 50% or 25% when wearing 5 heavy armor and reduce cost of blocking.

Or just make it equal as dodge and bolt treatment ffs. Cut regen for 50% I don't really mind but not 100%.

They have to re-design both S&B and heavy armor.

People us it for the Fortress + Bracing passive to reduce block cost. Not worth it for the actual armor increase, due to spell/armor penetration stacking, making everyone naked as far as mitigation goes. I take full dmg from Steel Tornado mace trains 7 days a week already, while in 5+ heavy and self-buffed. Fixing nirn, the same will be true for Proxi blobs. So yeah, at least you get some block cost reduction right?

But if blocking cancels your entire stam recovery, those passives looks a lot less attractive. Mainly because they boost a playstyle that's no longer is viable in PvP or blocking pro-actively. I'm guessing turtle up and spamming defensive skills mainly, only block reactively or in emergency, will be more functional. Than you dont need that much block cost reduction.

So what will be the benefit of using heavy or shield next patch I wonder. Because I doubt they ever balance penetration values

I really like the idea of those passives allowing moderate recovery for heavy users tho, that could actually work.

You act as if they removed the whole blocking mechanism from the game.


Sure, you probably won't be able to tank 10 people while maintaining infinite CC immunity & 90% mitigation anymore, but you'll still be able to tank for long periods of time (especially with potions, siphoning attacks or helping hands passive).


Infinite resources should never be a possibility, as that takes away a pivotal aspect of MMORPG gameplay: resource management.

DezIsDead

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The bolt escape nerf is all about punishing people who disengage but what about stamina sorcs that use it offensively???

I propose the following change. This will allow stam sorcs, (who got a tiny shoutout by eric in the last eso live), to actually use the ability.

Streak Morph of Bolt Escape:

- Attacking a target with a MELEE attack removes the cooldown (50% stacking cost) timer.

• This would make bolt escape usable for stamina sorcs.
• As long as you get a hit in one someone it proves you are still in the fight and you should be able to bolt again with no increase of cost. Its already stupid expensive for stam sorc.
• It would also allow stam sorcs to use the ability they way they actually want to use it, for gap closing and to STAY IN THE FIGHT with superior positioning - Not to run away.
• As soon as you run away and cast a second BE without a melee attack in between, the cost increases
• This will make the streak morph more attractive as well since everyone uses the other one

Stam sorcs are maybe 3% of all sorcs, why make changes to BE for only a hand full of sorcs?

The idea of resetting the increases cost afther an attack would seem very logical.
People tend to hate sorcs who bolt away during fights so that needs to ne nerfed, not streak in general.

I use streak to stun enemies rather than bolt away, with my high spell dmg build I cant streak long because I have low regen. The changes would punnish all sorcs because some can streak a lot, this is just stupid. Fix insane regen builds who have 2.5k magicka regen not the skill they spam.

I´ve suggested this when the original bolt escape nerf went live. Streak was once a main damaging ability for sorcerers (thats why they could live with not isntant cast dd in the first place).
Give the streak morph the addition that when you actually HIT the enemy player you don´t get increased costs on the next ability use making it a vaible offensive skillchoice like it once was.

You don't think this will make Streak a morph like Breath of Life or Crystal Fragments where there is only one choice? Right now I think the morph between Streak and Ball of Lightning is competitive. If I think BoL is better, that's mostly because I mostly use the ability in its intended function (escape) and I still see enough sorcs - good ones - who use streak to tell me that both are viable.

If BoL gets the ZoS nerf and Streak gets your suggestion, I would always take Streak. This comes from a perspective from someone who 9 times out of 10 has used the ability in a defensive matter.

But then again, this comes from someone who will have a magicka NB all VR14, ehh VR16 [*gasp*], ready to go for this new update...

Yup me too, got a V10 imperial NB on DC and a V9 Breton NB on AD. Coming to the dark side. I'll still play sorc, but NB is about to be so OP I'd be crazy not to get back on them

Lava_Croft

Are all the people claiming to roll a Nightblade for 1.7 the same people who were all going to roll a Templar for 1.6?