Bolt Escape / Dodge / Blocking / Shields Nerf

OtarTheMad

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

my personal opinion on these changes:

Templar - Dead class
Nightblade - 1v1 King
Sorc - Struggle Street (ish)
DK - God mode activating again

Maybe I missed something, didn't watch the whole thing but why are Templars dead? Because of the reduced healing and shield reduction? I'd wait to see what other changes they have lined up, they mentioned that this was just a taste of what changes they're going to make.

I will just copy and paste a portion of the post i just made on my thread

What is a magicka templar going to do now against a wrecking blow spamming nightblade or dk? He can't block that long as he will be out of stam instantly. He can dodgeroll a couple times but go out of stam. Both instances end in him getting wrecking blowed in the face and dead from executioner. Again I know it is annoying that DK and templar can hold block and have the capability to regen stamina with their abilities but honestly what else can they do? They have been given no class disengage as the sorc or NB. Those classes were given class shields as they are fighter type classes. So we nerf their ability to brawl, nerf sorc escape, buff NB cloak. I have been calling for a nb cloak fix but honestly feel there are better ways to go about fixing issues than breaking the battle mechanics that set this game apart @ZOS

link to the thread if youd like

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190184/lets-make-interactive-defensives-and-then-disable-them#latest

Thanks. I can see that it will take some adjustments and toying around with skills most would not think of using to make a good-great Templar, that'd be the challenge if nothing else changes.

We'll see what they have in mind for the other changes. I am a little worried about stamina builds wrecking my healer but so far I am more annoyed that, with the max level increase to VR 16, all that gold I dropped on a 5 pc. Healer set now means nothing.

Dalglish

They say 50% damage reduction, but shield reduction, dodge roll penalty and no stam regen with block (not even counting the fact its usually more than 1 person beating on you).

I predict TTK is still going to be the same if not quicker because CC locks happening much much faster.

Soris

Sublime wrote: »

The changes can basically be categorized into two categories:

• The ones affecting the Battle Spirit buff
• The ones not affecting the Battle Spirit buff
  
  I think it makes sense to look at those two categories individually, and here's why:
  
  The new Battle Spirit will reduce all damage, shield values and healing by 50% instead of only reducing the shield values by 15%. Meaning that all skills that have an effect on another player will be changed into the same direction, i.e. the changes do not nerf a particular type of skills but rather reduces the overall pace of combat by 50%. Yes a shield will only be able to protect you for half of what it used to but you will also only take 50% of the damage - the ressources expended on both sides will stay the same. The reduced combat speed doesn't change the importance of Magicka/Stamina Recovery but has a big impact on Health Recovery, since (as I believe) it doesn't go under healing and therefore basically doubles all health recovery stats in comparison to other health regenerating perks.
  
  The only actual change is that shields do not get nerfed from 0% to 50% but rather from 15% to 50%. Meaning they actually gain approximately 15% in streangth compared to offensive and healing abilities.
  
  The other changes have to be looked at individually, since they have a different purpose for each of their playstyles:
  
  Bolt Escape (50% scaling/use):
  
  This skill was mainly used to disengage and resposition from dangerous situation and sometimes to stun an enemy (especially rolldodgers). First off it has to be noted that combat will be overall 50% slower, so Sorcerers will have more time to regenerate Magicka/wait for the penalty to wear off, making the nerf less harmful than it may seem. Apart from that it won't prevent anybody from using Bolt Escape once or twice, but only very few will dare to use it to cover long distances. On the other side it has to be noted, that it already is possible to chase a disengaging mage by blockcasting a gapcloser, which doesn't have an increased cost.
  In the end I think the skill will still be widely used for early disengages/los'ing, but it will be much harder to escape chasing players.
  
  Rolldodge (33% scaling/use):
  
  Rolldodge is basically used to mitigate damage through 100% dodgechance and create some distance between the caster and the attacker. Since it's the only defensive ability of most stamina based builds being able to rely on it is key. I think it mostly depends on how long the penalty lasts. It will certainly make the Stamina Regeneration mundus stone very popular and might create and increased use of Evasion. Combined with the reduced AvA rank requirement of Vigor, there will be less rolldodging and more vigor spamming. In the end it will come down to who can best fill the open window of ones defense through effective use of other skills such as Evasion, Dark Cloak or Vigor. Meaning we might actually see some more hybrid Magicka Stamblades that use Dark Cloak to close the gap between the cheap rolldodges.
  
  Blockcasting (no Stamina Regeneration while blocking):
  
  As of now blocking is the most common way to mitigate damage, especially for tanks. While it will not be completely dead, it has to be used with much more care and thought. Combined with the nerf to the nirnhoned trait, I guess the ability to tank an exessive amount of players will be significantly reduced. As noted above the overall combat pace will be significantly reduced, which especially gives more importance to Health Regeneration, opening an opportunity for completely new builds. Apart from that or the coming new sets I do not see a way for full tank builds to reach the current level of mitigation, but I'm not the most experienced tank theorycrafter so it's quite possible that I missed one or the other thing.
  

Thoughts?

If im not horribly wrong, there is already 15%(ish) dmg reduction on that Battle Spirit currently.
So the shield/heal/dmg ratio will be like 1:1:1.
Correct me if im wrong. Can't check ingame atm.

Jules

aco5712 wrote: »

my personal opinion on these changes:

Templar - Dead class
Nightblade - 1v1 King
Sorc - Struggle Street (ish)
DK - God mode activating again

Leo. Not that I don't hope you're right about dk...
But...

I don't much understand how stam regen turning to 0 while blocking improves things for dk's.
Or are you thinking of the shield/dodge nerfs to other classes being the reason for their rise?

Edit: finally actually watched it & I see that there might be some potential for OPness. (PVPness?) There's obsidian shard- though my hopes are low as it's been godawful for so long. Could it heal ourselves or only allies? Probably ourselves too I'd imagine. We'll have to see the heal amount. And then battle roar. Not sure what to think of this yet, we'll have to see how it scales. I guess for stam DK's this will probably be an improvement. The wording of the stream was kindof vague so I just don't know what to think.

Maulkin

Soris wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

The changes can basically be categorized into two categories:

• The ones affecting the Battle Spirit buff
• The ones not affecting the Battle Spirit buff
  
  I think it makes sense to look at those two categories individually, and here's why:
  
  The new Battle Spirit will reduce all damage, shield values and healing by 50% instead of only reducing the shield values by 15%. Meaning that all skills that have an effect on another player will be changed into the same direction, i.e. the changes do not nerf a particular type of skills but rather reduces the overall pace of combat by 50%. Yes a shield will only be able to protect you for half of what it used to but you will also only take 50% of the damage - the ressources expended on both sides will stay the same. The reduced combat speed doesn't change the importance of Magicka/Stamina Recovery but has a big impact on Health Recovery, since (as I believe) it doesn't go under healing and therefore basically doubles all health recovery stats in comparison to other health regenerating perks.
  
  The only actual change is that shields do not get nerfed from 0% to 50% but rather from 15% to 50%. Meaning they actually gain approximately 15% in streangth compared to offensive and healing abilities.
  
  The other changes have to be looked at individually, since they have a different purpose for each of their playstyles:
  
  Bolt Escape (50% scaling/use):
  
  This skill was mainly used to disengage and resposition from dangerous situation and sometimes to stun an enemy (especially rolldodgers). First off it has to be noted that combat will be overall 50% slower, so Sorcerers will have more time to regenerate Magicka/wait for the penalty to wear off, making the nerf less harmful than it may seem. Apart from that it won't prevent anybody from using Bolt Escape once or twice, but only very few will dare to use it to cover long distances. On the other side it has to be noted, that it already is possible to chase a disengaging mage by blockcasting a gapcloser, which doesn't have an increased cost.
  In the end I think the skill will still be widely used for early disengages/los'ing, but it will be much harder to escape chasing players.
  
  Rolldodge (33% scaling/use):
  
  Rolldodge is basically used to mitigate damage through 100% dodgechance and create some distance between the caster and the attacker. Since it's the only defensive ability of most stamina based builds being able to rely on it is key. I think it mostly depends on how long the penalty lasts. It will certainly make the Stamina Regeneration mundus stone very popular and might create and increased use of Evasion. Combined with the reduced AvA rank requirement of Vigor, there will be less rolldodging and more vigor spamming. In the end it will come down to who can best fill the open window of ones defense through effective use of other skills such as Evasion, Dark Cloak or Vigor. Meaning we might actually see some more hybrid Magicka Stamblades that use Dark Cloak to close the gap between the cheap rolldodges.
  
  Blockcasting (no Stamina Regeneration while blocking):
  
  As of now blocking is the most common way to mitigate damage, especially for tanks. While it will not be completely dead, it has to be used with much more care and thought. Combined with the nerf to the nirnhoned trait, I guess the ability to tank an exessive amount of players will be significantly reduced. As noted above the overall combat pace will be significantly reduced, which especially gives more importance to Health Regeneration, opening an opportunity for completely new builds. Apart from that or the coming new sets I do not see a way for full tank builds to reach the current level of mitigation, but I'm not the most experienced tank theorycrafter so it's quite possible that I missed one or the other thing.
  

Thoughts?

If im not horribly wrong, there is already 15%(ish) dmg reduction on that Battle Spirit currently.
So the shield/heal/dmg ratio will be like 1:1:1.
Correct me if im wrong. Can't check ingame atm.

There is, yes.

And it's 20% not 15%.

Master_Kas

ToRelax wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Do you even read what you're writing?
Firstly, 33% cost increase won't even have any impact unless it stacks. Damage and healing are reduced by 50%, remember?
Ez already rerolled NB at the start of 1.6...
And you know me - do you really believe I couldn't adapt to these changes and stay on top of my game?
I would also quit if they'd make Bolt Escape 50% cheaper and double the value of Hardened Ward, because they have just proven to have no idea what they're doing and are still unable to learn.

Did i speak to you?? It was ezareth on his nerf nb crusade.
As far as I know the cost increase will stack on dodgeroll too

Edit: just re-Read what I wrote and it was clearly Ez I quoted not you.
Also wrote that damage in cyro was nerfed in My original post so yes I know very well what I wrote.

It seem the players got exactly what they asked for:
Nerf to dodgeroll
Nerf to shields
Nerf to permablocking
Damage reduced in cyro.

Only thing that really brothers me is the 2 new vetranks.

Also no doubt you could Adapt and do well , you are a great player.
Dont know where you got that from since I did not say YOU cannot do it.

Sorry for bad writing. On a sh*tty iphone xD

Rune_Relic

Erock25 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I love the amount of tunnel vision that's in this thread. People read "-50% shield strength" and scream "SORC NERF OMG" without reading "-50% to ALL damage" which pretty much balances it out.

Seriously, are whiners even trying anymore?

Shields will take exactly as much damage as they do now which sounds good to me. If they really want to remove the escape portion of Bolt Escape, they should at least set it to 33% penalty. That way, three consecutive Bolt Escapes will be the same cost as three consecutive Bolt Escapes now, but when you start hitting 4, 5, 6+ is when your magicka will really get hit hard. Cloak MUST get the same treatment though. Countering Cloak with AOE isn't an option with the pitiful radius of magicka AOE in this game. Radiant Magelight radius is too small and Revealing Flare is a joke. Without Detect Pots working on Cloak, it is basically a 100% fight reset.

Revealing Flare is indeed a joke but I don't feel like Cloak is too hard to counter at all...? It's not like NBs can Bolt Escape to a completely different location while cloaked, with a bit of educated guesswork you can blast them out of it.

Given that a magicka NB's defence pretty much revolves around Cloak it shouldn't be trivial to nullify.

And giving it a 33% stacking cost increase will not kill the skill.

which absolutely makes cloak useless for stamina builds.
NB with no cloak ? Pointless Class.

Sublime

Soris wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

The changes can basically be categorized into two categories:

• The ones affecting the Battle Spirit buff
• The ones not affecting the Battle Spirit buff
  
  I think it makes sense to look at those two categories individually, and here's why:
  
  The new Battle Spirit will reduce all damage, shield values and healing by 50% instead of only reducing the shield values by 15%. Meaning that all skills that have an effect on another player will be changed into the same direction, i.e. the changes do not nerf a particular type of skills but rather reduces the overall pace of combat by 50%. Yes a shield will only be able to protect you for half of what it used to but you will also only take 50% of the damage - the ressources expended on both sides will stay the same. The reduced combat speed doesn't change the importance of Magicka/Stamina Recovery but has a big impact on Health Recovery, since (as I believe) it doesn't go under healing and therefore basically doubles all health recovery stats in comparison to other health regenerating perks.
  
  The only actual change is that shields do not get nerfed from 0% to 50% but rather from 15% to 50%. Meaning they actually gain approximately 15% in streangth compared to offensive and healing abilities.
  
  The other changes have to be looked at individually, since they have a different purpose for each of their playstyles:
  
  Bolt Escape (50% scaling/use):
  
  This skill was mainly used to disengage and resposition from dangerous situation and sometimes to stun an enemy (especially rolldodgers). First off it has to be noted that combat will be overall 50% slower, so Sorcerers will have more time to regenerate Magicka/wait for the penalty to wear off, making the nerf less harmful than it may seem. Apart from that it won't prevent anybody from using Bolt Escape once or twice, but only very few will dare to use it to cover long distances. On the other side it has to be noted, that it already is possible to chase a disengaging mage by blockcasting a gapcloser, which doesn't have an increased cost.
  In the end I think the skill will still be widely used for early disengages/los'ing, but it will be much harder to escape chasing players.
  
  Rolldodge (33% scaling/use):
  
  Rolldodge is basically used to mitigate damage through 100% dodgechance and create some distance between the caster and the attacker. Since it's the only defensive ability of most stamina based builds being able to rely on it is key. I think it mostly depends on how long the penalty lasts. It will certainly make the Stamina Regeneration mundus stone very popular and might create and increased use of Evasion. Combined with the reduced AvA rank requirement of Vigor, there will be less rolldodging and more vigor spamming. In the end it will come down to who can best fill the open window of ones defense through effective use of other skills such as Evasion, Dark Cloak or Vigor. Meaning we might actually see some more hybrid Magicka Stamblades that use Dark Cloak to close the gap between the cheap rolldodges.
  
  Blockcasting (no Stamina Regeneration while blocking):
  
  As of now blocking is the most common way to mitigate damage, especially for tanks. While it will not be completely dead, it has to be used with much more care and thought. Combined with the nerf to the nirnhoned trait, I guess the ability to tank an exessive amount of players will be significantly reduced. As noted above the overall combat pace will be significantly reduced, which especially gives more importance to Health Regeneration, opening an opportunity for completely new builds. Apart from that or the coming new sets I do not see a way for full tank builds to reach the current level of mitigation, but I'm not the most experienced tank theorycrafter so it's quite possible that I missed one or the other thing.
  

Thoughts?

If im not horribly wrong, there is already 15%(ish) dmg reduction on that Battle Spirit currently.
So the shield/heal/dmg ratio will be like 1:1:1.
Correct me if im wrong. Can't check ingame atm.

There are currently the following buffs:

• Reduce damage taken by 20%
• Redduce healing received by 15%

So it seems like healing is gonna get a slight nerf, but I don't think it's gonna be anything major. Thanks for the hint, edited my original post accordingly.

MisterBigglesworth

So help me out here...

Why is Dark Conversion in the game?
Why did Sorcs use it in PvP like a year ago?
Why don't Sorcs want use it now?
What would ZOS have to change about the skill to make you want to use it? (i.e. make you untargetable/invisible while channeling it? Make it instant cast?)

Soris

Sublime wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

The changes can basically be categorized into two categories:

• The ones affecting the Battle Spirit buff
• The ones not affecting the Battle Spirit buff
  
  I think it makes sense to look at those two categories individually, and here's why:
  
  The new Battle Spirit will reduce all damage, shield values and healing by 50% instead of only reducing the shield values by 15%. Meaning that all skills that have an effect on another player will be changed into the same direction, i.e. the changes do not nerf a particular type of skills but rather reduces the overall pace of combat by 50%. Yes a shield will only be able to protect you for half of what it used to but you will also only take 50% of the damage - the ressources expended on both sides will stay the same. The reduced combat speed doesn't change the importance of Magicka/Stamina Recovery but has a big impact on Health Recovery, since (as I believe) it doesn't go under healing and therefore basically doubles all health recovery stats in comparison to other health regenerating perks.
  
  The only actual change is that shields do not get nerfed from 0% to 50% but rather from 15% to 50%. Meaning they actually gain approximately 15% in streangth compared to offensive and healing abilities.
  
  The other changes have to be looked at individually, since they have a different purpose for each of their playstyles:
  
  Bolt Escape (50% scaling/use):
  
  This skill was mainly used to disengage and resposition from dangerous situation and sometimes to stun an enemy (especially rolldodgers). First off it has to be noted that combat will be overall 50% slower, so Sorcerers will have more time to regenerate Magicka/wait for the penalty to wear off, making the nerf less harmful than it may seem. Apart from that it won't prevent anybody from using Bolt Escape once or twice, but only very few will dare to use it to cover long distances. On the other side it has to be noted, that it already is possible to chase a disengaging mage by blockcasting a gapcloser, which doesn't have an increased cost.
  In the end I think the skill will still be widely used for early disengages/los'ing, but it will be much harder to escape chasing players.
  
  Rolldodge (33% scaling/use):
  
  Rolldodge is basically used to mitigate damage through 100% dodgechance and create some distance between the caster and the attacker. Since it's the only defensive ability of most stamina based builds being able to rely on it is key. I think it mostly depends on how long the penalty lasts. It will certainly make the Stamina Regeneration mundus stone very popular and might create and increased use of Evasion. Combined with the reduced AvA rank requirement of Vigor, there will be less rolldodging and more vigor spamming. In the end it will come down to who can best fill the open window of ones defense through effective use of other skills such as Evasion, Dark Cloak or Vigor. Meaning we might actually see some more hybrid Magicka Stamblades that use Dark Cloak to close the gap between the cheap rolldodges.
  
  Blockcasting (no Stamina Regeneration while blocking):
  
  As of now blocking is the most common way to mitigate damage, especially for tanks. While it will not be completely dead, it has to be used with much more care and thought. Combined with the nerf to the nirnhoned trait, I guess the ability to tank an exessive amount of players will be significantly reduced. As noted above the overall combat pace will be significantly reduced, which especially gives more importance to Health Regeneration, opening an opportunity for completely new builds. Apart from that or the coming new sets I do not see a way for full tank builds to reach the current level of mitigation, but I'm not the most experienced tank theorycrafter so it's quite possible that I missed one or the other thing.
  

Thoughts?

If im not horribly wrong, there is already 15%(ish) dmg reduction on that Battle Spirit currently.
So the shield/heal/dmg ratio will be like 1:1:1.
Correct me if im wrong. Can't check ingame atm.

There are currently the following buffs:

• Reduce damage taken by 20%
• Redduce healing received by 15%

So it seems like healing is gonna get a slight nerf, but I don't think it's gonna be anything major. Thanks for the hint, edited my original post accordingly.

And 15% less shields^^
Yeah that's not a big thing, it will be maybe 5% more or less but every little bit counts

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Maybe it's worth trying to change their minds.

• Reduce healing by 50%
• Reduce damage by 25%
• Increase the health-buff, instead of gaining 4k, gain 15k on entering Cyrodiil
• Reduce Shields by 50% (you get more free health, so don't you dare)

So here :
You incent even more people to stack up max magicka/stamina and going with 0 bonus for Health pool. I don't think its what we want.
You make damages>>heals/shileds ie you don't need anything but spam one skill to kill. If you spam surprise attack for example, the ennemy wont be able to outheal/outshield a stupid spam which is stupid. Right now, you need a special rotation with cc t kill fast, or a more sustained dps with the use of dots and stuff to put enough pressure; if the heals got nerfed and not damages, you just need to spam 1 skill like a monkey.
I don't think we want that.

Optimal balance would be that someone who has built specifically for dealing damage would be dealing same amount of damage with a rotation as damage shields/heals prevent, assuming the opponent has built for making those as strong as possible (full dmg vs full dmg prevention build scenario).

Now, if you had built for dealing insane damage, then of course you should deal atleast slightly more damage with a rotation than a shield/heal prevents, if the person you're facing is playing a very sustain focused build for instance.

Anything else leads into a scenario where person playing a sustain build can simply spam his shields/heals, while person playing full DPS runs out of resources, unable to kill sustain player (especially considering the increased TTK & reduced effectiveness of burst damage).

Sadly this is only true for 1v1 encounters.
Thankfully we´re all playing a grp based game where heals have to be stronger than dps as they are always reactionary to the agressor and have to be even stronger due to the cause that nobody want´s to play a 1 healer 1 dps ratio so heal has to outheal multiple dps for short periods of time.

Sublime

Soris wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

The changes can basically be categorized into two categories:

• The ones affecting the Battle Spirit buff
• The ones not affecting the Battle Spirit buff
  
  I think it makes sense to look at those two categories individually, and here's why:
  
  The new Battle Spirit will reduce all damage, shield values and healing by 50% instead of only reducing the shield values by 15%. Meaning that all skills that have an effect on another player will be changed into the same direction, i.e. the changes do not nerf a particular type of skills but rather reduces the overall pace of combat by 50%. Yes a shield will only be able to protect you for half of what it used to but you will also only take 50% of the damage - the ressources expended on both sides will stay the same. The reduced combat speed doesn't change the importance of Magicka/Stamina Recovery but has a big impact on Health Recovery, since (as I believe) it doesn't go under healing and therefore basically doubles all health recovery stats in comparison to other health regenerating perks.
  
  The only actual change is that shields do not get nerfed from 0% to 50% but rather from 15% to 50%. Meaning they actually gain approximately 15% in streangth compared to offensive and healing abilities.
  
  The other changes have to be looked at individually, since they have a different purpose for each of their playstyles:
  
  Bolt Escape (50% scaling/use):
  
  This skill was mainly used to disengage and resposition from dangerous situation and sometimes to stun an enemy (especially rolldodgers). First off it has to be noted that combat will be overall 50% slower, so Sorcerers will have more time to regenerate Magicka/wait for the penalty to wear off, making the nerf less harmful than it may seem. Apart from that it won't prevent anybody from using Bolt Escape once or twice, but only very few will dare to use it to cover long distances. On the other side it has to be noted, that it already is possible to chase a disengaging mage by blockcasting a gapcloser, which doesn't have an increased cost.
  In the end I think the skill will still be widely used for early disengages/los'ing, but it will be much harder to escape chasing players.
  
  Rolldodge (33% scaling/use):
  
  Rolldodge is basically used to mitigate damage through 100% dodgechance and create some distance between the caster and the attacker. Since it's the only defensive ability of most stamina based builds being able to rely on it is key. I think it mostly depends on how long the penalty lasts. It will certainly make the Stamina Regeneration mundus stone very popular and might create and increased use of Evasion. Combined with the reduced AvA rank requirement of Vigor, there will be less rolldodging and more vigor spamming. In the end it will come down to who can best fill the open window of ones defense through effective use of other skills such as Evasion, Dark Cloak or Vigor. Meaning we might actually see some more hybrid Magicka Stamblades that use Dark Cloak to close the gap between the cheap rolldodges.
  
  Blockcasting (no Stamina Regeneration while blocking):
  
  As of now blocking is the most common way to mitigate damage, especially for tanks. While it will not be completely dead, it has to be used with much more care and thought. Combined with the nerf to the nirnhoned trait, I guess the ability to tank an exessive amount of players will be significantly reduced. As noted above the overall combat pace will be significantly reduced, which especially gives more importance to Health Regeneration, opening an opportunity for completely new builds. Apart from that or the coming new sets I do not see a way for full tank builds to reach the current level of mitigation, but I'm not the most experienced tank theorycrafter so it's quite possible that I missed one or the other thing.
  

Thoughts?

If im not horribly wrong, there is already 15%(ish) dmg reduction on that Battle Spirit currently.
So the shield/heal/dmg ratio will be like 1:1:1.
Correct me if im wrong. Can't check ingame atm.

There are currently the following buffs:

• Reduce damage taken by 20%
• Redduce healing received by 15%

So it seems like healing is gonna get a slight nerf, but I don't think it's gonna be anything major. Thanks for the hint, edited my original post accordingly.

And 15% less shields^^
Yeah that's not a big thing, it will be maybe 5% more or less but every little bit counts

Funny enough I don't actually see the notion about shields, but I guess since we all know it's there the result is the same.

tist

My magicka nb can already 1v1 nearly everything. Time to dump on sorcs, hue.

Lisbette

Every experienced MMO player knows that changes like this are going to happen. Classes and skills are nerfed, and others are buffed.

i.e. When Light Armor tanking got nerfed in 1.6, when Radiant Destruction could hit for 23k, when Wrecking Blow could hit for 30k.

You'll adapt to it, like you adapted to 1.6.

Snit

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

So help me out here...

Why is Dark Conversion in the game?
Why did Sorcs use it in PvP like a year ago?
Why don't Sorcs want use it now?
What would ZOS have to change about the skill to make you want to use it? (i.e. make you untargetable/invisible while channeling it? Make it instant cast?)

You only need fast resource replenishment while in combat. That is a bad time to stop all casting, slow your movement to a crawl, levitate and glow for three seconds.

It has always been awful. There are a few niche uses, but a resource replenishment ability that only works well when no foes are near has too many problems to make the skill bar for most players.

AhPook_Is_Here

I wonder how they will handle GDB, since it is a non-scaling fixed 30%. I suppose they will just reduce it to 15% in PVP.

ToRelax

umagon wrote: »

The whole reason things are out of balance is due to the resource pools being nearly unlimited coupled with the imbalanced ratios dealing with output vs resource cost. Their proposed solutions are more band-aids than an actual fix. Things like burst damage are fine but it should come at a high resource cost not what we have now were people can spam things like wrecking blow for around 1.2k stam, with no cool down and 1.5-2k+ stam regeneration.

For even some healing related things the same imbalance exists, for example vigor low cost high return over many targets no cool down and little to counter it. The correct way of fixing this would just to rebalanced each skill on a case by case basis and create new morphs for skills. So for example people can have more of a choice if they want to be burst that deals a lot of damage in one blow (high resource cost or cool down) or burst that deals a lot of damage with many attacks (no cool down medium cost).

In both cases ratio should be close to 1:1 so for example yes some could hit a player for 10k damage but it cost them about 10k stam or magicka to do it. Or they could pick a morph that deals less damage but has a lower cost however it can used more given the same resource pool.

The blanket band-aid fix makes me wonder if they even tried using things like swallow soul, and if what is posted is true it would make it go from next to useless to completely useless.

Exactly this.
They don't seem to know much about their own game and have no clue, on whom to listen to.
From what I understood they called everyone who can complete vdsa "hard-core" on this ESO Live. Makes it pretty obvious to me they simply don't know wich players could actually help them with these balance issues They did listen, just to all those casual whiners who proposed the changes we see today, calling out on symptoms like "low ttk", "infinite roll dodging", "perma block", "endless bolt escape" etc.

pjwb16_ESO

Lisbette wrote: »

Every experienced MMO player knows that changes like this are going to happen. Classes and skills are nerfed, and others are buffed.

i.e. When Light Armor tanking got nerfed in 1.6, when Radiant Destruction could hit for 23k, when Wrecking Blow could hit for 30k.

You'll adapt to it, like you adapted to 1.6.

yeah, i adapted, and i till dont like what have i have become cause of that *** 1.6 update

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Maybe it's worth trying to change their minds.

• Reduce healing by 50%
• Reduce damage by 25%
• Increase the health-buff, instead of gaining 4k, gain 15k on entering Cyrodiil
• Reduce Shields by 50% (you get more free health, so don't you dare)

So here :
You incent even more people to stack up max magicka/stamina and going with 0 bonus for Health pool. I don't think its what we want.
You make damages>>heals/shileds ie you don't need anything but spam one skill to kill. If you spam surprise attack for example, the ennemy wont be able to outheal/outshield a stupid spam which is stupid. Right now, you need a special rotation with cc t kill fast, or a more sustained dps with the use of dots and stuff to put enough pressure; if the heals got nerfed and not damages, you just need to spam 1 skill like a monkey.
I don't think we want that.

Optimal balance would be that someone who has built specifically for dealing damage would be dealing same amount of damage with a rotation as damage shields/heals prevent, assuming the opponent has built for making those as strong as possible (full dmg vs full dmg prevention build scenario).

Now, if you had built for dealing insane damage, then of course you should deal atleast slightly more damage with a rotation than a shield/heal prevents, if the person you're facing is playing a very sustain focused build for instance.

Anything else leads into a scenario where person playing a sustain build can simply spam his shields/heals, while person playing full DPS runs out of resources, unable to kill sustain player (especially considering the increased TTK & reduced effectiveness of burst damage).

Sadly this is only true for 1v1 encounters.
Thankfully we´re all playing a grp based game where heals have to be stronger than dps as they are always reactionary to the agressor and have to be even stronger due to the cause that nobody want´s to play a 1 healer 1 dps ratio so heal has to outheal multiple dps for short periods of time.

So let me get this straight, you are saying this game is not in desperate need of Battlegrounds & Arenas? Or that duels/small scale aren't part of this game?

DezIsDead

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

Every experienced MMO player knows that changes like this are going to happen. Classes and skills are nerfed, and others are buffed.

i.e. When Light Armor tanking got nerfed in 1.6, when Radiant Destruction could hit for 23k, when Wrecking Blow could hit for 30k.

You'll adapt to it, like you adapted to 1.6.

yeah, i adapted, and i till dont like what have i have become cause of that *** 1.6 update

Agreed people adapt, but nothing kills a community and in turn a game faster than lack of content, continuously extending the grind, and frequent nerfs. IMO why the *** should they nerf roll dodge and streak. The issue wasn't the skills as much as it was regen. Stop fixing the product of the problem and fix the actual problem. Enough pc players have quit or become casuals, let's not force more people into that direction, even if you have console sales to keep your sinking ship afloat for now,

Makkir

The ones saying Bolt needed a nerf clearly don't play a sorc. The object of this game isn't for your opponent to stand still and let you kill him. If a sorc isn't stacking majicka regen then he isn't bolting far. And if he is stacking majicka regen then he is hitting you with wet noodles. If you are getting hit hard from players like me, then that means you are not stacking nirn and that also means you aren't adapting with the meta.

The initial problems I see now are survivability and particularly the light armor passives.

With these changes, sorcs will now do 50% less majicka damage to players in Cyrodiil, players who are already stacking Nirn. With the Nirn changes I guess we don't really know how much of an effect that is going to have on our dmg output but the fact we have almost no protection against physical attacks means we have to rely on mobility/hard ward for survivability.
Now that we cannot bolt escape strategically to regain control of a situation, there better be some addressing to our physical survivability or you are going to find no one playing his/her sorc anymore. Running around Cyrodiil with 14-15k health is a challenge on it's own, and yes most sorcs stacking regen ARE running around with 14k health.

EDIT- fixed some spelling issues since it was late.

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Maybe it's worth trying to change their minds.

• Reduce healing by 50%
• Reduce damage by 25%
• Increase the health-buff, instead of gaining 4k, gain 15k on entering Cyrodiil
• Reduce Shields by 50% (you get more free health, so don't you dare)

So here :
You incent even more people to stack up max magicka/stamina and going with 0 bonus for Health pool. I don't think its what we want.
You make damages>>heals/shileds ie you don't need anything but spam one skill to kill. If you spam surprise attack for example, the ennemy wont be able to outheal/outshield a stupid spam which is stupid. Right now, you need a special rotation with cc t kill fast, or a more sustained dps with the use of dots and stuff to put enough pressure; if the heals got nerfed and not damages, you just need to spam 1 skill like a monkey.
I don't think we want that.

Optimal balance would be that someone who has built specifically for dealing damage would be dealing same amount of damage with a rotation as damage shields/heals prevent, assuming the opponent has built for making those as strong as possible (full dmg vs full dmg prevention build scenario).

Now, if you had built for dealing insane damage, then of course you should deal atleast slightly more damage with a rotation than a shield/heal prevents, if the person you're facing is playing a very sustain focused build for instance.

Anything else leads into a scenario where person playing a sustain build can simply spam his shields/heals, while person playing full DPS runs out of resources, unable to kill sustain player (especially considering the increased TTK & reduced effectiveness of burst damage).

Sadly this is only true for 1v1 encounters.
Thankfully we´re all playing a grp based game where heals have to be stronger than dps as they are always reactionary to the agressor and have to be even stronger due to the cause that nobody want´s to play a 1 healer 1 dps ratio so heal has to outheal multiple dps for short periods of time.

So let me get this straight, you are saying this game is not in desperate need of Battlegrounds & Arenas? Or that duels/small scale aren't part of this game?

I have played in 8vs8 SGs in DAoC from 2003 to 2008. I´ve played Warhammer, Aion, Age of Conan, Rift and maybe other games i´m forgetting with the same group people and always in search for grp vs grp fights. Every pvp game that had interesting fights had either stronger heals than damage or some other form of non character bound damage mitigation (tanks that could absorb your dmg or block for you).

I do think arenas and/or battlegrounds would be interesting. I don´t think your perception of the healer role is one that i personally or tbh most grp players i know would enjoy. If one DPS can overpower 1 heal than all setups consist of max number of dps players and 1 healer to outheal fluff dmg and aoe.

Edit: Esos problem is that it does not have dedicated healers and this makes 1v1 alonside grp play especially hard to balance. I´d always go for the "balanced in grpplay" route personally.

Vynist

We can argue all day, but ONE thing we can all agree on: Templars are OP.

Sunfire - OP
Backlash - OP
Radial Sweep - best ult in game OP
Aurora Javelin - do I even have to say OP?
Healing Ritual - I never die OP

I can't even tell you how many times my death recap is just Blazing Shield! OP

Gyudan

Sypher wrote: »

You no longer regen stamina while blocking.

I'm sure the few PVE tanks still alive are loving this one.

RadioheadSh0t

Wow... Just wow... These are terrible ideas...

AhPook_Is_Here

Gyudan wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

You no longer regen stamina while blocking.

I'm sure the few PVE tanks still alive are loving this one.

I'm not sure how bad it is really going to be yet. For heavy armor you have the passives, block cost reduction enchants, and block cost reduction champion points. Honestly with stuff like VDSA, with a ton of adds, you just tell the dps that non-banner mobs are their problem and leave them un-tanked. The only fights I'm not sure about are Mantacora both upper and lower. Fpr lower it's not like you can choose not to block serpents light attacks as even the lights can hit for 10-16k with near max armor. They will 1 shot a non-blocking tank so they will have to make adjustments to the fights so that boss' normal attacks can be healed though without blocking.

saintmurray

If I cant block and blazing shield is now pointless. How am I supposed to be a tanky templar?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

The bolt escape nerf is all about punishing people who disengage but what about stamina sorcs that use it offensively???

I propose the following change. This will allow stam sorcs, (who got a tiny shoutout by eric in the last eso live), to actually use the ability.

Streak Morph of Bolt Escape:

- Attacking a target with a MELEE attack removes the cooldown (50% stacking cost) timer.

• This would make bolt escape usable for stamina sorcs.
• As long as you get a hit in one someone it proves you are still in the fight and you should be able to bolt again with no increase of cost. Its already stupid expensive for stam sorc.
• It would also allow stam sorcs to use the ability they way they actually want to use it, for gap closing and to STAY IN THE FIGHT with superior positioning - Not to run away.
• As soon as you run away and cast a second BE without a melee attack in between, the cost increases
• This will make the streak morph more attractive as well since everyone uses the other one

Ezareth

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Except I haven't touched my sorc in 2 months. My "Class" has been a nightblade for 2 months. I've always spoken as an ESO player and theorycrafter first, and a Sorc second. People want to see bias to excuse their own bias. You don't need to be a genius as well to see a spade for a spade, you need a pulse.

Dodge rolling isn't touched by this. Most of the top nightblades can absorb the increased cost of successive rolls because most of us aren't spamming dodge roll 3-4 times in a row and an the way cost increase percentages work is they are added after cost reduction enchants are applied and champion point reductions are applied at the end. What this means is a 33% increase isn't actually a 33% increase in your cost. I'd explain the math further but you're not really interested in numbers.

Master_Kas

Ezareth wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

All you thin mint biceps cry babies waaa waaa waaaing about all the changes. You ESO geniuses and scientists will find a new build that will rack up all the kills you want no matter what after any patch.

I give Sypher to come up with his build YouTube video post update within a week.

Why don't you all get up from your PC right after reading this post, do push-ups to exhaustion and then go get your protein intake!

P.S.: Not to mention most of you will grind to VR16 within a matter of hours

Pushups use your triceps not your biceps. Just saying...

I don't have to find a new build to rack up kills with the changes....my build just became even more OP. Guess what class I'm playing?

You only Read the sorcerer nerfs it looks like ? With reduced damage taking, 33% more cost after each roll nightblades Will not be as effective as now.
Since 1.6 I've seen you trying to put the attention on nightblades to defend your shieldstacking class.
And now you're dumping your main class to play a "OP" class . xD
Pathetic. Sorcs had this coming. As did permarollers and permablockers.
Adapt or quit or go after whats most op just like the masses.

Except I haven't touched my sorc in 2 months. My "Class" has been a nightblade for 2 months. I've always spoken as an ESO player and theorycrafter first, and a Sorc second. People want to see bias to excuse their own bias. You don't need to be a genius as well to see a spade for a spade, you need a pulse.

Dodge rolling isn't touched by this. Most of the top nightblades can absorb the increased cost of successive rolls because most of us aren't spamming dodge roll 3-4 times in a row and an the way cost increase percentages work is they are added after cost reduction enchants are applied and champion point reductions are applied at the end. What this means is a 33% increase isn't actually a 33% increase in your cost. I'd explain the math further but you're not really interested in numbers.

Please do . I hate Numbers but I'm interested.
Cannot write PM to you for some reason.

I'll check if you reply in the morning . Goodnight