ESO needs a simple difficulty slider.

Cazic · April 2015

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

This is a crazy idea that will never work. The idea is simple and common in single player games, but actually having this type of a mechanic in a MMO is anything but.

It wouldn't make sense for one player to be taking more or less damage than another, just because they adjust a slider. And having to consider what difficulty every other player is set to when grouping? That would suck.

Part of the idea of a MMO is that we're all playing in the same world, and work together to deal with the same encounters and scenarios. If each individual can drastically change those encounters on the fly, it creates a disconnect between the players as they're no longer on common ground.

I agree that ESO can feel too easy sometimes, but this isn't the solution to that.

RIGHT! Because DEBUFFS are not possible in ESO, explain these then..
[img][/img]

What?

That's what this slider would do. Simple as that. Let's say, player A wants the mobs to be harder. Player A adjusts the slider to a harder settings. Player A now has a (WAIT FOR IT) debuff on him/her SELF. Not you, not phase the game, a DEBUFF on ONLY PLAYER A. This debuff will cause PLAYER A ONLY to take 5% more damage from all attacks. PLAYER A ONLY will do 5% less damage.

I don't understand this, (I don't play this game that a way, So, you shouldn't either. You HAVE to play it my way or GTFO!)

It's not about playing my way, or anyone one player's way in particular. It's about playing through what the game world has to offer as is, because it's a MMO and we're all supposed to share the experience. Allowing players to change that experience to their individual liking goes against the fundamentals of a MMO, and separates the player base.

That statement - "You HAVE to play my way or GTFO" - is exactly what you'd see happen with a difficulty slider. Certain players would only want to group with those who want to play at the same difficulty as them.

Besides, ESO already offers varying difficulty levels, it's just presented in a more organic form. It's presented this way because the world of the game is supposed to feel real, and convincing. We aren't supposed to be able to artificially alter the way the game plays on the fly. Here is a quick break down of the difficulty levels we already have:

EASY: Regular PvE areas
MEDIUM: Normal group dungeons, PvE in Cyrodiil
HARD: Vet group dungeons, Craglorn, PvP in Cyrodil

That's a loose summary and probably isn't complete, but the point is that the game already offers varying difficulty levels, only in a way that occurs naturally by going different place in the world. If someone plays the game 99% solo and only focuses on regular PvE areas, well you're leaving yourself out of the other, more challenging areas which require more group play, and that's your own choice.

vanillexhope · April 2015

I still can't get past folks arguing about whether this is an MMO or not.

On topic, I'm all for enhancing gameplay whenever possible. Maybe a food or scroll would work. Personally, I think it should have a time limit just like the current food. This would help eliminate people accidentally forgetting to change their settings in groups. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would help. I dunno. Maybe this is unnecessary. Just personally something I'd prefer if I was going to use this feature.

Fleshreaper · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Basically, my suggestion would be a very simple difficulty slider just like Oblivion and Skyrim have, from very easy (which, let's face it, is the base difficulty for ESO at the time I am typing this) to "very hard" or "master".

This slider would only work on an individual player level, so that none of the in-game content is actually affected. The slider would work as a player-specific debuff which affects only the individual player.

That's fine in a solo game. It is never going to work in an MMO where it WILL cause all kinds of problems with players accusing others of having an unfair advantage. Even if it can be implemented in such a way as to confer no advantage, people will still complain if they are doing something on 'hard mode' and others are not, it will just cause trouble.

If you run across me out in the world and I am fighting mobs. How are you going to know, if I have my slider set to hard mode? More importantly, WHY would you care what my slider is set to? How is that impacting YOUR entertainment? If I go into PvP with my slider set to hard, it ONLY means that I (ME ONLY) will be easier to kill and will have a harder time of killing you. If I zone into a delve and my slide is automatically adjusted to normal, nothing to change, nothing to mess with.

If you're in my group, it impacts my game significantly.

@nerevarine1138, you may want to read that very last line one more time. I said, that if I zone into a delve ( dungeon, aka group up with other players) they the slider is set to normal automatically. So, once again. How is that impacting anyone else's entertainment?

Cazic · April 2015

Fleshreaper wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Basically, my suggestion would be a very simple difficulty slider just like Oblivion and Skyrim have, from very easy (which, let's face it, is the base difficulty for ESO at the time I am typing this) to "very hard" or "master".

This slider would only work on an individual player level, so that none of the in-game content is actually affected. The slider would work as a player-specific debuff which affects only the individual player.

That's fine in a solo game. It is never going to work in an MMO where it WILL cause all kinds of problems with players accusing others of having an unfair advantage. Even if it can be implemented in such a way as to confer no advantage, people will still complain if they are doing something on 'hard mode' and others are not, it will just cause trouble.

If you run across me out in the world and I am fighting mobs. How are you going to know, if I have my slider set to hard mode? More importantly, WHY would you care what my slider is set to? How is that impacting YOUR entertainment? If I go into PvP with my slider set to hard, it ONLY means that I (ME ONLY) will be easier to kill and will have a harder time of killing you. If I zone into a delve and my slide is automatically adjusted to normal, nothing to change, nothing to mess with.

If you're in my group, it impacts my game significantly.

@nerevarine1138, you may want to read that very last line one more time. I said, that if I zone into a delve ( dungeon, aka group up with other players) they the slider is set to normal automatically. So, once again. How is that impacting anyone else's entertainment?

That's just one of the many reasons that implementing this idea is a lot harder and more complicated than you guys are making it out to be. The affect on group dynamics and player interaction as a whole would be ridiculous. It's not as easy as the devs just copying and pasting code, and your idea here of having to automatically adjust the difficulty when entering certain areas proves that.

Fleshreaper · April 2015

Cazic wrote: »

It's not about playing my way, or anyone one player's way in particular. It's about playing through what the game world has to offer as is, because it's a MMO and we're all supposed to share the experience. Allowing players to change that experience to their individual liking goes against the fundamentals of a MMO, and separates the player base.

Please provide the source for this "fundamentals of a MMO" because that sounds like your opinion.

Cazic wrote: »

That statement - "You HAVE to play my way or GTFO" - is exactly what you'd see happen with a difficulty slider. Certain players would only want to group with those who want to play at the same difficulty as them.

Besides, ESO already offers varying difficulty levels, it's just presented in a more organic form. It's presented this way because the world of the game is supposed to feel real, and convincing. We aren't supposed to be able to artificially alter the way the game plays on the fly. Here is a quick break down of the difficulty levels we already have:

EASY: Regular PvE areas
MEDIUM: Normal group dungeons, PvE in Cyrodiil
HARD: Vet group dungeons, Craglorn, PvP in Cyrodil

That's a loose summary and probably isn't complete, but the point is that the game already offers varying difficulty levels, only in a way that occurs naturally by going different place in the world. If someone plays the game 99% solo and only focuses on regular PvE areas, well you're leaving yourself out of the other, more challenging areas which require more group play, and that's your own choice.

You can't find a group for Craglorn quest because everyone is on different stages. PvP is not an option for everyone. So, that really only leaves Vet Delves and toxic players. sooooo.

Cazic · April 2015

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

It's not about playing my way, or anyone one player's way in particular. It's about playing through what the game world has to offer as is, because it's a MMO and we're all supposed to share the experience. Allowing players to change that experience to their individual liking goes against the fundamentals of a MMO, and separates the player base.

Please provide the source for this "fundamentals of a MMO" because that sounds like your opinion.

Cazic wrote: »

That statement - "You HAVE to play my way or GTFO" - is exactly what you'd see happen with a difficulty slider. Certain players would only want to group with those who want to play at the same difficulty as them.

Besides, ESO already offers varying difficulty levels, it's just presented in a more organic form. It's presented this way because the world of the game is supposed to feel real, and convincing. We aren't supposed to be able to artificially alter the way the game plays on the fly. Here is a quick break down of the difficulty levels we already have:

EASY: Regular PvE areas
MEDIUM: Normal group dungeons, PvE in Cyrodiil
HARD: Vet group dungeons, Craglorn, PvP in Cyrodil

That's a loose summary and probably isn't complete, but the point is that the game already offers varying difficulty levels, only in a way that occurs naturally by going different place in the world. If someone plays the game 99% solo and only focuses on regular PvE areas, well you're leaving yourself out of the other, more challenging areas which require more group play, and that's your own choice.

You can't find a group for Craglorn quest because everyone is on different stages. PvP is not an option for everyone. So, that really only leaves Vet Delves and toxic players. sooooo.

"Fundamentals of a MMO" is generally speaking to the point that gameplay within a MMO revolves around a large player base interacting with and adventuring through the same game world. Not a game world which they can instantly alter to suit their own vision of how difficult it should be. The consistency of sharing the same experience is what brings players together. At least, that's traditionally how MMORPGs work. I'm sure there are many MMO online games which stray from this in one way or another, but I don't think that's the direction ZOS is shooting for with ESO. It is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls MMORPG.

And yes, I know the idea would only impact the player who chooses to use it, not literally alter the game world around them. Consider what I said above about segmenting the player base via each player artificially changing their own experience. That would happen, and it wouldn't be a good thing.

Issues with finding groups for Craglorn, and PvP not being an option for everyone are totally different topics. Within the actual game (not the whine fest forums), the majority of players are having fun with these things and not constantly complaining. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but slapping on a half-assed idea such as a difficulty slider is not the solution.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Argoniawind wrote: »

I knew this topic was gonna get heat from the mmo players, while the Elder Scrolls players aka me are gonna be for the slider. I could use this slider to make stuff easy for me since all I do is play solo and I know some areas that are insane hard. But its up to the devs to make it happen!

uhmmm, don't take it that way.
I'm a TES player who also plays MMORPG's

Some features and functions don't work in all game types.

ZOS already created scaling content which is a BIG attempt to please both crowds.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

vanillexhope wrote: »

I still can't get past folks arguing about whether this is an MMO or not.

On topic, I'm all for enhancing gameplay whenever possible. Maybe a food or scroll would work. Personally, I think it should have a time limit just like the current food. This would help eliminate people accidentally forgetting to change their settings in groups. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would help. I dunno. Maybe this is unnecessary. Just personally something I'd prefer if I was going to use this feature.

I think you missed people points due to some of the arguments.
If one single player can change the world that they are in...while everyone else gets to do that same for different variations, the game by category is no longer a MMORPG. The game type drives certain limitations. A difficulty slider is such a limitation.

Fleshreaper · April 2015

Cazic wrote: »

I'm sure there are many MMO online games which stray from this in one way or another, but I don't think that's the direction ZOS is shooting for with ESO. It is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls MMORPG.

And yes, I know the idea would only impact the player who chooses to use it, not literally alter the game world around them. Consider what I said above about segmenting the player base via each player artificially changing their own experience. That would happen, and it wouldn't be a good thing.

Issues with finding groups for Craglorn, and PvP not being an option for everyone are totally different topics. Within the actual game (not the whine fest forums), the majority of players are having fun with these things and not constantly complaining. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but slapping on a half-assed idea such as a difficulty slider is not the solution.

Two things. The Elder Scrolls has been a successful sand box RPG genera, do you disagree with that? Now, it's just online, same concept, same general world. Just add other players and some group content. And if you look at the group content, then you would understand that this is still a sand box RPG that is online, with group content added in.

And please do not speak for the majority of the players in and on ESO. I understand the point you are trying to make but you do not know what even 1/5th of the player base likes or thinks. And the 50 or so guildies that you talk to are not the majority of ESO player base.

Looking at how difficult it is the find groups for Craglorn and/or Vet delves, I would say the majority of the players are off doing other stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love the large scale PvP in this game. It fells like an actual war, flank'em and take'm out.

Cazic · April 2015

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I'm sure there are many MMO online games which stray from this in one way or another, but I don't think that's the direction ZOS is shooting for with ESO. It is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls MMORPG.

And yes, I know the idea would only impact the player who chooses to use it, not literally alter the game world around them. Consider what I said above about segmenting the player base via each player artificially changing their own experience. That would happen, and it wouldn't be a good thing.

Issues with finding groups for Craglorn, and PvP not being an option for everyone are totally different topics. Within the actual game (not the whine fest forums), the majority of players are having fun with these things and not constantly complaining. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but slapping on a half-assed idea such as a difficulty slider is not the solution.

Two things. The Elder Scrolls has been a successful sand box RPG genera, do you disagree with that? Now, it's just online, same concept, same general world. Just add other players and some group content. And if you look at the group content, then you would understand that this is still a sand box RPG that is online, with group content added in.

And please do not speak for the majority of the players in and on ESO. I understand the point you are trying to make but you do not know what even 1/5th of the player base likes or thinks. And the 50 or so guildies that you talk to are not the majority of ESO player base.

Looking at how difficult it is the find groups for Craglorn and/or Vet delves, I would say the majority of the players are off doing other stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love the large scale PvP in this game. It fells like an actual war, flank'em and take'm out.

Yes of course I agree that the ES series has been successful in that regard. Do you agree that The Elder Scrolls Online is a MMO version of an Elder Scrolls game?

There are both limits set, and limits removed when it comes to making a game work as a MMO. One of the limits set is that the players must be on common ground with one another in order to share the "massive" experience. As long as we're on common ground, then the limit of not being able to play with other people is removed (a limit we obviously have in a single player game). If you let each player change their own experience too much, the common ground fades away and the limit of not being able to play with other people is no longer removed.

It's okay if we disagree. I'm definitely speaking in terms of how a MMO works traditionally, and it's not just my opinion. We're all entitled to have our own ideas and opinions of things that may or may not work in the game. From a MMO standpoint, this idea will just never work.

Dahveed · April 2015

Cazic wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Difficulty sliders don't work in MMOs, because you can't just have different groups of people running around in their own game world.

First of all, no need to go name calling. I am not "naive".

Secondly, ironic that the person calling me naive still didn't understand the basic concept of this thread. If you did, you would know that what I am proposing would not force players to "run around in their own game world."

Read my original post - carefully, this time - and you'll understand why.

Consider "their own game world" more figuratively than literally. Having everyone be able to adjust their difficulty this way would segment the player base, and that's not what a MMO is about.

This isn't your typical MMO. I have played almost 99% of my time solo. There are a lot of lone wolf ES players who are just here to explore, quest, search for treasure maps and occasionally test their mettle against a rare elite creature.

You can't "segment" a part of the player base which is already thoroughly segmented.

Dahveed · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You also seem to be pretending earlier that this would be different than artificially increasing the damage dealt by enemies by removing your gear/CP. It would have exactly the same effect, so why are you so against it?

Why is this part so hard to understand?

There is a MASSIVE difference between gearing up to rise to a challenge, and gearing DOWN to gimp myself to give the computer AI a chance against my OP invincible superhero.

By prohibiting myself from gearing up and using talents, I am prohibiting myself from experiencing what is quite possibly the most important aspect of an MMO for the vast majority of players, myself included.

99% of the reason people "grind", repeat dungeons, do dailies, craft, grind, repeat the dungeons again, repeat that raid for the 14th time in as many weeks, grind some more, craft some more, scour the auction house/trade chat... IS TO GEAR UP. This is a fundamental aspect of every MMO to ever have existed on planet earth.

And you're telling my that in order to enjoy the game more, I am not to participate in what is essentially the core mechanic of an MMO.

A slider, however "artificial", would just be one switch that I turn on or off, leaving the rest of the entire game intact.

If you, and people like you, cannot comprehend this basic principle, then I might as well be yelling at a wall in the Grand Canyon at midnight, because you will never understand the argument.

Dahveed · April 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

I was going to suggest this very thing when I got home.

The grouping problem can be solved by forcing the group leader's difficulty setting. Same way level is enforced now.

This.

God, it's so easy it's mind-boggling. Yet the naysayers will keep coming to threads like these with their condescending "expertise" about how complex an MMO is and how everyone's head would explode if my character had a simple debuff placed on him.

I just don't get it.

Dahveed · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

I knew this topic was gonna get heat from the mmo players, while the Elder Scrolls players aka me are gonna be for the slider. I could use this slider to make stuff easy for me since all I do is play solo and I know some areas that are insane hard. But its up to the devs to make it happen!

Been playing Elder Scrolls games much longer than I have MMOs. The fact that you mostly play solo doesn't remove the limitations of MMO mechanics on the world.

Well to be honest since I am an Elder Scrolls player, If I had it my way there would be zero mmo elements in this game and have only past Elder Scrolls and new innovative mechanics implemented, but that's a whole other story!

Elder Scrolls VI is coming. That's what you're looking for.

Spottswoode wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

I was going to suggest this very thing when I got home.

The grouping problem can be solved by forcing the group leader's difficulty setting. Same way level is enforced now.

And how do you suggest the developers deal with the mountain of complaints that "no one wants to play at my difficulty level", etc.?

Need my lol button. I don't. It is an absurd expectation to expect developers to fix the human condition.

You're right. And it's equally absurd to expect them to waste time and resources developing a difficultly slider for the 0.05% of the population who want it just so that they can whine about no one else using the difficulty slider.

nerevarine1138, at first I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but the more of your posts I read the more I have a sour taste in my mouth. You seem to be a very negative person, especially if you're going to waste this much of YOUR time just to blast people and talk about how we're all a bunch of whiners or something.

Just agree to disagree, and be on your way. You're bringing this thread into the dumpster.

Dahveed · April 2015

Cazic wrote: »

It's presented this way because the world of the game is supposed to feel real, and convincing

So me being an invincible dps god just casually saving the world multiple times a day while never taking a scratch and killing about 72 bandits, 14 wizards, 88 beasts and a handful of daedra - every day, day in, day out, without breaking a sweat - is part of their strategy to create a "convincing" game world?

PKMN12 · April 2015

This simply CANNOT be done on an MMO, unless you are talking about instanced dungeons/raids, which effects the entire party and even then it would only be able to be changed right at the beginning of the start of teh dungeon, the moment you enter, it would be unchangeable.

There is no ifs, or buts here, it simpyl CANNOT be done at all

Dahveed · April 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

This simply CANNOT be done on an MMO, unless you are talking about instanced dungeons/raids, which effects the entire party and even then it would only be able to be changed right at the beginning of the start of teh dungeon, the moment you enter, it would be unchangeable.

There is no ifs, or buts here, it simpyl CANNOT be done at all

Right, because you have successfully developed your own MMO and have tried this. Therefore you can speak with 100% certitude as you are doing now.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

I knew this topic was gonna get heat from the mmo players, while the Elder Scrolls players aka me are gonna be for the slider. I could use this slider to make stuff easy for me since all I do is play solo and I know some areas that are insane hard. But its up to the devs to make it happen!

Been playing Elder Scrolls games much longer than I have MMOs. The fact that you mostly play solo doesn't remove the limitations of MMO mechanics on the world.

Well to be honest since I am an Elder Scrolls player, If I had it my way there would be zero mmo elements in this game and have only past Elder Scrolls and new innovative mechanics implemented, but that's a whole other story!

Elder Scrolls VI is coming. That's what you're looking for.

Spottswoode wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

I was going to suggest this very thing when I got home.

The grouping problem can be solved by forcing the group leader's difficulty setting. Same way level is enforced now.

And how do you suggest the developers deal with the mountain of complaints that "no one wants to play at my difficulty level", etc.?

Need my lol button. I don't. It is an absurd expectation to expect developers to fix the human condition.

You're right. And it's equally absurd to expect them to waste time and resources developing a difficultly slider for the 0.05% of the population who want it just so that they can whine about no one else using the difficulty slider.

nerevarine1138, at first I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but the more of your posts I read the more I have a sour taste in my mouth. You seem to be a very negative person, especially if you're going to waste this much of YOUR time just to blast people and talk about how we're all a bunch of whiners or something.

Just agree to disagree, and be on your way. You're bringing this thread into the dumpster.

"Agree to disagree" is the ultimate cop-out in debate. If you want to actually respond to points, fine. But respond to them.

Despite your assertions that this is a "different type of MMO", you've actually ignored a lot of the mechanical issues presented by segmenting the population in this way. I know you believe the population is already segmented, but it simply isn't. There aren't people running around experiencing the same content as I am at a totally different level of difficulty (which, by the way, is more than just making things hit harder).

This is a completely unfeasible mechanic in an MMO, and it defeats the very purpose of the game being massively multiplayer. If you want a solo Elder Scrolls experience, you have five fantastic games to choose from. No need to try and make this one of them.

Dahveed · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Despite your assertions that this is a "different type of MMO", you've actually ignored a lot of the mechanical issues presented by segmenting the population in this way. I know you believe the population is already segmented, but it simply isn't. There aren't people running around experiencing the same content as I am at a totally different level of difficulty (which, by the way, is more than just making things hit harder).

This is a completely unfeasible mechanic in an MMO, and it defeats the very purpose of the game being massively multiplayer. If you want a solo Elder Scrolls experience, you have five fantastic games to choose from. No need to try and make this one of them.

If I want to solo this game, then I will solo this game. That is why, so far, I have experienced almost my entire playthrough - so far, about 100 hours total - solo. This is why the only RL friend I know who also plays this game also plays it solo, and he's played more than I have. Are we not allowed to have fun? Is our "segmented" experience going to rain on your parade in any way?

Tell me - name ONE THING - that would change in your life if my 100 hours of SOLO PLAY were in a context in which I took more damage when enemies hit me. All this time I've been playing 100% solo, segmented, completely detached from what others are doing, completely removed from your experience of the game, and both you and I have been completely oblivious of one another - yes, that's right, you and I have played this game for a total of zero hours together.

And you know what? I AM enjoying the game. Immensely, in fact. As a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, doing virtually no group content, just questing, gearing up, crafting, exploring, finding treasure maps, occasionally asking for help in the /trade section - which just saves me a couple minutes searching google. THAT is the extent of my "multiplayer" experience so far.

So please stop telling me how I am supposed to play this game. I already know how.

The only thing I am requesting is one simple feature which would make MY SOLO EXPERIENCE OF THIS GAME a little bit more challenging, which would IN NO WAY infringe upon your ability to experience it as a multiplayer adventure.

Yes, it would be incredibly easy to implement. I have explained how.

No, it would not "segment" me from the rest of the players, as I am already 100% segmented from all other players except for one colleague from work whom I occasionally (like once every 3 weeks) group with.

It would not affect you or people you play with in any way whatsoever.

And yes, it is entirely possible with a tiny amount of effort from the developers, and far less negativity from condescending naysayers who believe that they somehow know all the secrets about the inner workings of an MMO and the catastrophic effects that one small change would incur.

Changes happen in MMOs ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Literally every. single. patch. something major is changing. Indeed fundamental, revolutionary changes happen on a regular basis in MMOs (did you not know this, or is this your first MMO?)... so you can't tell me that this simple slider which effects only my character will somehow change the entire dynamic of the entire MMO community for all time.

Finally, the "agree to disagree" point is not well taken. I've found that no matter how hard you try, you just can't convince people on the internet about anything, which is why I am getting fed up.

It's like I'm telling you that 2+2=4, then you're going off about the molecular structure of Jupiter to disprove my point.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Despite your assertions that this is a "different type of MMO", you've actually ignored a lot of the mechanical issues presented by segmenting the population in this way. I know you believe the population is already segmented, but it simply isn't. There aren't people running around experiencing the same content as I am at a totally different level of difficulty (which, by the way, is more than just making things hit harder).

This is a completely unfeasible mechanic in an MMO, and it defeats the very purpose of the game being massively multiplayer. If you want a solo Elder Scrolls experience, you have five fantastic games to choose from. No need to try and make this one of them.

If I want to solo this game, then I will solo this game. That is why, so far, I have experienced almost my entire playthrough - so far, about 100 hours total - solo. This is why the only RL friend I know who also plays this game also plays it solo, and he's played more than I have. Are we not allowed to have fun? Is our "segmented" experience going to rain on your parade in any way?

Tell me - name ONE THING - that would change in your life if my 100 hours of SOLO PLAY were in a context in which I took more damage when enemies hit me. All this time I've been playing 100% solo, segmented, completely detached from what others are doing, completely removed from your experience of the game, and both you and I have been completely oblivious of one another - yes, that's right, you and I have played this game for a total of zero hours together.

And you know what? I AM enjoying the game. Immensely, in fact. As a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, doing virtually no group content, just questing, gearing up, crafting, exploring, finding treasure maps, occasionally asking for help in the /trade section - which just saves me a couple minutes searching google. THAT is the extent of my "multiplayer" experience so far.

So please stop telling me how I am supposed to play this game. I already know how.

The only thing I am requesting is one simple feature which would make MY SOLO EXPERIENCE OF THIS GAME a little bit more challenging, which would IN NO WAY infringe upon your ability to experience it as a multiplayer adventure.

Yes, it would be incredibly easy to implement. I have explained how.

No, it would not "segment" me from the rest of the players, as I am already 100% segmented from all other players except for one colleague from work whom I occasionally (like once every 3 weeks) group with.

It would not affect you or people you play with in any way whatsoever.

And yes, it is entirely possible with a tiny amount of effort from the developers, and far less negativity from condescending naysayers who believe that they somehow know all the secrets about the inner workings of an MMO and the catastrophic effects that one small change would incur.

Changes happen in MMOs ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Literally every. single. patch. something major is changing. Indeed fundamental, revolutionary changes happen on a regular basis in MMOs (did you not know this, or is this your first MMO?)... so you can't tell me that this simple slider which effects only my character will somehow change the entire dynamic of the entire MMO community for all time.

Finally, the "agree to disagree" point is not well taken. I've found that no matter how hard you try, you just can't convince people on the internet about anything, which is why I am getting fed up.

It's like I'm telling you that 2+2=4, then you're going off about the molecular structure of Jupiter to disprove my point.

The game works in the way that calculations and interactions are based on static
IF the difficulty of your experience is altered for you enjoyed, by default EVERYONE who is online when you're online has to play with that difficulty. This presents a problem for you and others

IF they allowed this, what happens is whomever sets the ease or difficulty controls EVERYONE else's experience. You describe wanting something to only alter your character vs the NPC's.

Again, if you change yourself the game has to adjust its calculations to you and everyone else. Unfortunately, when playing in an online world...be instances is the only way to accomplish this so in essence, for solo only, this limits you to changing the difficulty in solo only areas. That's a very small part of the game and a one and done situation.

I know it's hard to comprehend why ZOS can't just change your player only for your benefit but every variable requires server calculations so if not instances, the added millions of calculations for each person who wants what you desire overloads the server.

Dahveed · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Despite your assertions that this is a "different type of MMO", you've actually ignored a lot of the mechanical issues presented by segmenting the population in this way. I know you believe the population is already segmented, but it simply isn't. There aren't people running around experiencing the same content as I am at a totally different level of difficulty (which, by the way, is more than just making things hit harder).

This is a completely unfeasible mechanic in an MMO, and it defeats the very purpose of the game being massively multiplayer. If you want a solo Elder Scrolls experience, you have five fantastic games to choose from. No need to try and make this one of them.

If I want to solo this game, then I will solo this game. That is why, so far, I have experienced almost my entire playthrough - so far, about 100 hours total - solo. This is why the only RL friend I know who also plays this game also plays it solo, and he's played more than I have. Are we not allowed to have fun? Is our "segmented" experience going to rain on your parade in any way?

Tell me - name ONE THING - that would change in your life if my 100 hours of SOLO PLAY were in a context in which I took more damage when enemies hit me. All this time I've been playing 100% solo, segmented, completely detached from what others are doing, completely removed from your experience of the game, and both you and I have been completely oblivious of one another - yes, that's right, you and I have played this game for a total of zero hours together.

And you know what? I AM enjoying the game. Immensely, in fact. As a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, doing virtually no group content, just questing, gearing up, crafting, exploring, finding treasure maps, occasionally asking for help in the /trade section - which just saves me a couple minutes searching google. THAT is the extent of my "multiplayer" experience so far.

So please stop telling me how I am supposed to play this game. I already know how.

The only thing I am requesting is one simple feature which would make MY SOLO EXPERIENCE OF THIS GAME a little bit more challenging, which would IN NO WAY infringe upon your ability to experience it as a multiplayer adventure.

Yes, it would be incredibly easy to implement. I have explained how.

No, it would not "segment" me from the rest of the players, as I am already 100% segmented from all other players except for one colleague from work whom I occasionally (like once every 3 weeks) group with.

It would not affect you or people you play with in any way whatsoever.

And yes, it is entirely possible with a tiny amount of effort from the developers, and far less negativity from condescending naysayers who believe that they somehow know all the secrets about the inner workings of an MMO and the catastrophic effects that one small change would incur.

Changes happen in MMOs ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Literally every. single. patch. something major is changing. Indeed fundamental, revolutionary changes happen on a regular basis in MMOs (did you not know this, or is this your first MMO?)... so you can't tell me that this simple slider which effects only my character will somehow change the entire dynamic of the entire MMO community for all time.

Finally, the "agree to disagree" point is not well taken. I've found that no matter how hard you try, you just can't convince people on the internet about anything, which is why I am getting fed up.

It's like I'm telling you that 2+2=4, then you're going off about the molecular structure of Jupiter to disprove my point.

The game works in the way that calculations and interactions are based on static
IF the difficulty of your experience is altered for you enjoyed, by default EVERYONE who is online when you're online has to play with that difficulty. This presents a problem for you and others

IF they allowed this, what happens is whomever sets the ease or difficulty controls EVERYONE else's experience. You describe wanting something to only alter your character vs the NPC's.

Again, if you change yourself the game has to adjust its calculations to you and everyone else. Unfortunately, when playing in an online world...be instances is the only way to accomplish this so in essence, for solo only, this limits you to changing the difficulty in solo only areas. That's a very small part of the game and a one and done situation.

I know it's hard to comprehend why ZOS can't just change your player only for your benefit but every variable requires server calculations so if not instances, the added millions of calculations for each person who wants what you desire overloads the server.

Yet another person who completely misses the point. Read my post again.

There are NO calculations to do. No NPC tweaking to do. No mobs to adjust. Everything in the entire game world stays EXACTLY as it is.

THE ONLY ASSET IN THE ENTIRE GAME WORLD WHICH WOULD CHANGE WOULD BE MY CHARACTER'S STATS.

If your character casts a buff on himself, does every NPC in the entire game world change for every player on the server?

No, of course it doesn't. It just changes YOUR stats, nobody else's.

If they used this same buff/debuff principle ON MY CHARACTER AND ONLY ON MY CHARACTER to debuff me, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE in the world, in the same way that nothing would change in the game world when you eat a piece of buff food.

Yet another "expert" coming in here with their naysaying condescension who hasn't even bothered to understand the post.

It's getting frustrating now.

AH93 · April 2015

I think the difficulty slider idea is pretty good idea, would love to see one implemented at some point.

Wonder how many crowns that would cost though.

Ffastyl · April 2015

AH93 wrote: »

Wonder how many crowns that would cost though.

...Why monetize a basic setting?

AH93 · April 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

AH93 wrote: »

Wonder how many crowns that would cost though.

...Why monetize a basic setting?

...Sarcasm...

Alphashado · April 2015

Dahveed wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

I was going to suggest this very thing when I got home.

The grouping problem can be solved by forcing the group leader's difficulty setting. Same way level is enforced now.

This.

God, it's so easy it's mind-boggling. Yet the naysayers will keep coming to threads like these with their condescending "expertise" about how complex an MMO is and how everyone's head would explode if my character had a simple debuff placed on him.

I just don't get it.

The Irony.

On a more practical note, people keep bringing up DDO as some shining example of how easy it is to use difficulty sliders in an MMO. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't all the difficulty scaled content in DDO instanced? Last time I played DDO, there was very little open world content. Most of the zones were instanced to each group or player that entered them. This is nothing like ESO or most other MMOs. Not even remotely similar. It is one of the main reasons DDO has such a small player base. It doesn't feel like an MMO, but rather it feels more like a Coop game. There is a huge difference.

Now if you want to talk about increasing the difficulty of the instanced areas of ESO, we already have that. It's called Vet Mode and almost every dungeon has one. Plus you can get into any dungeon by yourself. I have never once heard any of these elite players complain about how easy it is to solo a group dungeon.

Faugaun · April 2015

Dahveed wrote: »

EDIT - A few of you seem a bit confused about the mechanic I am suggesting here, so I will copy/paste a couple paragraphs from a response I added on page 2 to really cut through to the point:

It would simply apply a debuff to your character. This "phasing" nonsense you guys are talking about is quite frankly baffling. Adding a very simple debuff to your character - i.e., "all damage taken is increased by 100%" - is already in their code: any food buff in the game, drink buff, potion buff, ability buff, enemy debuff.... does any of this require "phasing" or complex computational systems of earth-shattering complexity?

Just use this exact same code, apply a debuff to my specific character, and presto! You have fundamentally changed the ENTIRE GAME for the rest of my playthrough. And you have accomplished this with about two hours of dev time, by copy/pasting existing debuff code and putting in an added sub-section to the in-game menu called "difficulty".

ORIGINAL POST:

I won't get into a long-winded and detailed post here about ESO's difficulty, or lack thereof. For those interested in a good discussion about this topic, I encourage you to take a look at this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163184/this-game-is-so-frustratingly-easy-and-i-just-cant-take-it-anymore/p1 (EDIT: changed because of wrong link)

Basically, my suggestion would be a very simple difficulty slider just like Oblivion and Skyrim have, from very easy (which, let's face it, is the base difficulty for ESO at the time I am typing this) to "very hard" or "master".

This slider would only work on an individual player level, so that none of the in-game content is actually affected. The slider would work as a player-specific debuff which affects only the individual player. (Those of you who know WoW, just think of the Resurrection Sickness debuff.)

What the slider(s) would do would effectively nerf the player's damage output and healing received, and increase the damage they receive from monsters. There could even be a separate slider for xp gained, if I decided I wanted to slow down the game as well.

This kind of slider would be extremely easy for ZOS to implement and would not affect those players who enjoy the game as it is currently. Indeed those players literally wouldn't even know that anything has changed.

However players like myself - and there are a LOT of us, I believe - who find ESO to be just way, WAY too easy; childishly so, in fact - can easily make it more challenging without going through the dance of "nerfing ourselves" by choosing non-optimal builds, crappy gear, avoiding strong talents or using ultimates, etc.

I believe this very simple idea would bring the game truly back to life for a lot of people who are tired of the monotony of a very easy quest grind.

I appreciate any support you guys can give, and please let's keep the discussion civil.

I've been levelling a new sorc (currently level 22ish) she wore prison break out gear for the bulk of that time. . I finally realized I might need access to the passives such as magicka regen to have any sort of sustainable spell casting as I progress. As such o have now equipped 5/1/1 to level my skills to 50 and will likely craft some level 1 gear I find attractive ... Now given I have 110 CP, several other vr characters, 30 years of gaming experience, and my character is a glass cannon build what other choice with no armor)....long story short I still kill on level mobs (including packs, or even chain pulls of 10-15 mobs...yes on level) and now them down. I think the slider suggestion is a step in the right direction but even the combat mechanics could be beefed up a bit.

Alphashado · April 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

I've been levelling a new sorc (currently level 22ish) she wore prison break out gear for the bulk of that time. . I finally realized I might need access to the passives such as magicka regen to have any sort of sustainable spell casting as I progress. As such o have now equipped 5/1/1 to level my skills to 50 and will likely craft some level 1 gear I find attractive ... Now given I have 110 CP, several other vr characters, 30 years of gaming experience, and my character is a glass cannon build what other choice with no armor)....long story short I still kill on level mobs (including packs, or even chain pulls of 10-15 mobs...yes on level) and now them down. I think the slider suggestion is a step in the right direction but even the combat mechanics could be beefed up a bit.

See, that's just it: If the lvl 1-50 zones were made challenging for you, new players with none of the above bold text, would be quitting this game left and right out of frustration. Just go to a low level zone and hang out for a while. You can tell the difference between a true newb and someone leveling an alt. Watch the true newb for a while. They still nearly die on very mob of 3 or more.

There HAS to be a place for new players to enjoy the game.

If ZoS can figure out a way to put a debuff on vet players in lowbie zones then so be it. That is the only viable method I see. But we can't just increase the difficulty.

Necrelios · April 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

This simply CANNOT be done on an MMO, unless you are talking about instanced dungeons/raids, which effects the entire party and even then it would only be able to be changed right at the beginning of the start of teh dungeon, the moment you enter, it would be unchangeable.

There is no ifs, or buts here, it simpyl CANNOT be done at all

Actually, this has been implemented pretty well in other MMO's before, pretty much exactly how the OP suggests it; by placing a debuff on your character. My favorite MMO, Fallen Earth does just this for high level characters that wish to enter low level PvP areas. These areas are not instanced, but instead if you are high level you take a huge debuff making you a really easy target for any NPC mobs or lower level players in that area.

RIFT is another MMO which has a "Mentor" slider which allows you to set your character's level bellow the target level for a zone, essentially increasing the difficulty or allowing you to group with players much lower level than your character.

It has been done before, and it works quite well adding much re-playability and further enjoyment to a game.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Despite your assertions that this is a "different type of MMO", you've actually ignored a lot of the mechanical issues presented by segmenting the population in this way. I know you believe the population is already segmented, but it simply isn't. There aren't people running around experiencing the same content as I am at a totally different level of difficulty (which, by the way, is more than just making things hit harder).

This is a completely unfeasible mechanic in an MMO, and it defeats the very purpose of the game being massively multiplayer. If you want a solo Elder Scrolls experience, you have five fantastic games to choose from. No need to try and make this one of them.

If I want to solo this game, then I will solo this game. That is why, so far, I have experienced almost my entire playthrough - so far, about 100 hours total - solo. This is why the only RL friend I know who also plays this game also plays it solo, and he's played more than I have. Are we not allowed to have fun? Is our "segmented" experience going to rain on your parade in any way?

Tell me - name ONE THING - that would change in your life if my 100 hours of SOLO PLAY were in a context in which I took more damage when enemies hit me. All this time I've been playing 100% solo, segmented, completely detached from what others are doing, completely removed from your experience of the game, and both you and I have been completely oblivious of one another - yes, that's right, you and I have played this game for a total of zero hours together.

And you know what? I AM enjoying the game. Immensely, in fact. As a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, doing virtually no group content, just questing, gearing up, crafting, exploring, finding treasure maps, occasionally asking for help in the /trade section - which just saves me a couple minutes searching google. THAT is the extent of my "multiplayer" experience so far.

So please stop telling me how I am supposed to play this game. I already know how.

The only thing I am requesting is one simple feature which would make MY SOLO EXPERIENCE OF THIS GAME a little bit more challenging, which would IN NO WAY infringe upon your ability to experience it as a multiplayer adventure.

Yes, it would be incredibly easy to implement. I have explained how.

No, it would not "segment" me from the rest of the players, as I am already 100% segmented from all other players except for one colleague from work whom I occasionally (like once every 3 weeks) group with.

It would not affect you or people you play with in any way whatsoever.

And yes, it is entirely possible with a tiny amount of effort from the developers, and far less negativity from condescending naysayers who believe that they somehow know all the secrets about the inner workings of an MMO and the catastrophic effects that one small change would incur.

Changes happen in MMOs ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Literally every. single. patch. something major is changing. Indeed fundamental, revolutionary changes happen on a regular basis in MMOs (did you not know this, or is this your first MMO?)... so you can't tell me that this simple slider which effects only my character will somehow change the entire dynamic of the entire MMO community for all time.

Finally, the "agree to disagree" point is not well taken. I've found that no matter how hard you try, you just can't convince people on the internet about anything, which is why I am getting fed up.

It's like I'm telling you that 2+2=4, then you're going off about the molecular structure of Jupiter to disprove my point.

Good for you for playing the game solo. Now, here's the part you keep missing:

This is an MMO.

Doesn't matter if you've found a way to avoid interacting with others. Doesn't matter if you never set foot in a dungeon. Doesn't matter if you literally never encounter another player your entire time in the game world. The only thing that matters is that the developers are not designing this game solely based on your whims.

MMOs do change all the time. Oddly enough, none of them have added a "difficulty debuff" as you suggest. I wonder if that's because it would be a mechanical nightmare to implement and would create more problems than it would solve...

Faugaun · April 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

I've been levelling a new sorc (currently level 22ish) she wore prison break out gear for the bulk of that time. . I finally realized I might need access to the passives such as magicka regen to have any sort of sustainable spell casting as I progress. As such o have now equipped 5/1/1 to level my skills to 50 and will likely craft some level 1 gear I find attractive ... Now given I have 110 CP, several other vr characters, 30 years of gaming experience, and my character is a glass cannon build what other choice with no armor)....long story short I still kill on level mobs (including packs, or even chain pulls of 10-15 mobs...yes on level) and now them down. I think the slider suggestion is a step in the right direction but even the combat mechanics could be beefed up a bit.

See, that's just it: If the lvl 1-50 zones were made challenging for you, new players with none of the above bold text, would be quitting this game left and right out of frustration. Just go to a low level zone and hang out for a while. You can tell the difference between a true newb and someone leveling an alt. Watch the true newb for a while. They still nearly die on very mob of 3 or more.

There HAS to be a place for new players to enjoy the game.

If ZoS can figure out a way to put a debuff on vet players in lowbie zones then so be it. That is the only viable method I see. But we can't just increase the difficulty.

That's fine I love new players and think that they should enjoy it too...this is why a slider would be great for difficulty (now as for the exp debuff slider, ehh why not program it in... I would never use that as the current system seems painfully slow but if others would then fine....well a complete exp off button I might use for non vet cyrodil, but that's the exception).

I think the biggest things killing new players are:

1) standing in the fire
2) not blocking
3) not kiting
4) not having a good initial build to evolve from.

I think if you fix these things then you can ramp up the mechanics a bit.

In a sec I will post some ideas on how,to address the above problems.