ESO needs a simple difficulty slider.

Lionxoft

OP, vet content used to not be as face roll. They nerfed it because most people were crying about it's difficulty. Sadly, this game will never have challenging solo content because they must cater to the single player questing crowd as well.

There are ways where they could scale character's effective health pools or other stat pools while fighting a monster but altering the monster itself would be a no go.

Dahveed

Um... sorry, but you guys talking about "dev workload", "instances", "phasing zones", "leveling zones" and so forth have either not fully read my original post, or have very poor reading comprehension skills to misunderstand my idea to such a great extent.

My suggestion would require VERY LITTLE effort on the part of ZOS. Indeed, this is something that could quite literally be programmed and implemented within hours, no exaggeration.

It would simply apply a debuff to your character. This "phasing" nonsense you guys are talking about is quite frankly baffling. Adding a very simple debuff to your character - i.e., "all damage taken is increased by 100%" - is already in their code: any food buff in the game, drink buff, potion buff, ability buff, enemy debuff.... does any of this require "phasing" or complex computational systems of earth-shattering complexity?

Just use this exact same code, apply a debuff to my specific character, and presto! You have fundamentally changed the ENTIRE GAME for the rest of my playthrough. And you have accomplished this with about two hours of dev time, by copy/pasting existing debuff code and putting in an added sub-section to the in-game menu called "difficulty".

I find it rather perplexing how so many people could fail to understand the simplicity of this concept. The sheer confusion I see in the arguments people are posting is quite frankly hard to deal with.

In the game, right now, you have code for BUFF = INCREASE STATS.

Us this same system via a menu option, change it to DEBUFF = DECREASE STATS.

How is this hard to comprehend? Where is the vast complexity, the "development time", the "unavailable resources", the "phasing"?

I am truly baffled.

Razzak

Dahveed wrote: »

Um... sorry, but you guys talking about "dev workload", "instances", "phasing zones", "leveling zones" and so forth have either not fully read my original post, or have very poor reading comprehension skills to misunderstand my idea to such a great extent.

My suggestion would require VERY LITTLE effort on the part of ZOS. Indeed, this is something that could quite literally be programmed and implemented within hours, no exaggeration.

It would simply apply a debuff to your character. This "phasing" nonsense you guys are talking about is quite frankly baffling. Adding a very simple debuff to your character - i.e., "all damage taken is increased by 100%" - is already in their code: any food buff in the game, drink buff, potion buff, ability buff, enemy debuff.... does any of this require "phasing" or complex computational systems of earth-shattering complexity?

Just use this exact same code, apply a debuff to my specific character, and presto! You have fundamentally changed the ENTIRE GAME for the rest of my playthrough. And you have accomplished this with about two hours of dev time, by copy/pasting existing debuff code and putting in an added sub-section to the in-game menu called "difficulty".

I find it rather perplexing how so many people could fail to understand the simplicity of this concept. The sheer confusion I see in the arguments people are posting is quite frankly hard to deal with.

In the game, right now, you have code for BUFF = INCREASE STATS.

Us this same system via a menu option, change it to DEBUFF = DECREASE STATS.

How is this hard to comprehend? Where is the vast complexity, the "development time", the "unavailable resources", the "phasing"?

I am truly baffled.

Most don't understand this would be valuable to 1-50 players that find the game too easy. They see the game as VR14 grind only and cannot comprehend there are a lot of alt-ers and beginners that find the current leveling experience not challenging enough. They mostly play in a group, so they tend to think in that way.

Dahveed

Razzak wrote: »

Most don't understand this would be valuable to 1-50 players that find the game too easy. They see the game as VR14 grind only and cannot comprehend there are a lot of alt-ers and beginners that find the current leveling experience not challenging enough. They mostly play in a group, so they tend to think in that way.

Hmm, I guess that makes a bit more sense then. That's the difference between 2 types of players then I suppose.

Elara_Northwind

Just go questing naked, and fight with your fists

Aeladiir

OP = *** great idea

Gidorick

I don't see why this would require instancing. The player would be the asset that is getting the adjustment, not the mob or the world.

Lets say you want your game 50% harder... slide your difficulty slider over and YOUR stats are adjusted.... no one else's.

Server load would equal whatever server load is now for the computer to look at your stats when you hit a mob to determine damage dealt.

If it's kept simple, this could be a quickly implemented, very effective tool to add TONS of playability and RE-playability to ESO Zones.

Argoniawind

SapphireThunder wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

Actually this is not an mmo, infact this is an Elder Scrolls game with some mmo elements for the pc crowd. Elder Scrolls games are "Open World RPGs" ESO is an "Open World Online Rpg". So yeah by your comment about go play Skyrim tells me your new to this series, cus I for one have been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind came out on the original xbox. So and the other thing anything can be implemented to this or any other Elder Scrolls game only if Bethesda and the devs want to make it happen!!

Wrong, this IS an MMO, an MMORPG. MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
This game is Massive (open-world) Multiplayer (a lot people) Online (online) RPG.
No matter what is said, that fact won't change.

You can think what you want even though it is incorrect, and that ESO is infact an "Open World Online Rpg" not an mmo! While your at it you can call it an rts shooter if it makes you get to sleep at night! I explained perfectly what Elder Scrolls games are on and offline!!!

Dahveed

SadieJoan wrote: »

Just go questing naked, and fight with your fists

Not sure if serious or being facetious... I'll take the smiley as a "just kidding".

But yeah, people have suggested nerfing oneself or doing "ironman challenges" and such, but by handicapping yourself you are effectively prohibiting yourself from playing half of the game.

The fun and challenge of this type of action RPG is working on your character to make him/her the best he/she can possibly be to overcome obstacles... Purposefully making myself weak just feels artificial and isn't fun.

Dahveed

Argoniawind wrote: »

SapphireThunder wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

Actually this is not an mmo, infact this is an Elder Scrolls game with some mmo elements for the pc crowd. Elder Scrolls games are "Open World RPGs" ESO is an "Open World Online Rpg". So yeah by your comment about go play Skyrim tells me your new to this series, cus I for one have been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind came out on the original xbox. So and the other thing anything can be implemented to this or any other Elder Scrolls game only if Bethesda and the devs want to make it happen!!

Wrong, this IS an MMO, an MMORPG. MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
This game is Massive (open-world) Multiplayer (a lot people) Online (online) RPG.
No matter what is said, that fact won't change.

You can think what you want even though it is incorrect, and that ESO is infact an "Open World Online Rpg" not an mmo! While your at it you can call it an rts shooter if it makes you get to sleep at night! I explained perfectly what Elder Scrolls games are on and offline!!!

Guys.

You can call it a freaking potato salad for all I care. Does anyone REALLY care about nitpicking categories?

Let's just work together to try to improve it!

eventide03b14a_ESO

I just fail to see the point. Would you be getting some sort of reward for this? If not, then why not just not eat or drink and walk around naked, etc.. This request just seems sort of a pointless waste of time for the devs.

Chuggernaut

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Then how would two people using two difficulty settings fight the same mob?

One way you could do it to yourself would to wear lower level gear.

The exact way the OP described, and same exact same way food buffs work now.

Dahveed

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I just fail to see the point. Would you be getting some sort of reward for this? If not, then why not just not eat or drink and walk around naked, etc.. This request just seems sort of a pointless waste of time for the devs.

My REWARD for this is more engaging gameplay that doesn't put me to sleep.

I WANT to use food buffs and gear because it is a major part of the game, but I want them to feel useful.

"Waste for the devs"? They already have this in the game. They are called debuffs. It would take them a matter of a few hours to "waste" their time to make the game much more fun for tens of thousand of players who would want this.

Argoniawind

Dahveed wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

SapphireThunder wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

Actually this is not an mmo, infact this is an Elder Scrolls game with some mmo elements for the pc crowd. Elder Scrolls games are "Open World RPGs" ESO is an "Open World Online Rpg". So yeah by your comment about go play Skyrim tells me your new to this series, cus I for one have been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind came out on the original xbox. So and the other thing anything can be implemented to this or any other Elder Scrolls game only if Bethesda and the devs want to make it happen!!

Wrong, this IS an MMO, an MMORPG. MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
This game is Massive (open-world) Multiplayer (a lot people) Online (online) RPG.
No matter what is said, that fact won't change.

You can think what you want even though it is incorrect, and that ESO is infact an "Open World Online Rpg" not an mmo! While your at it you can call it an rts shooter if it makes you get to sleep at night! I explained perfectly what Elder Scrolls games are on and offline!!!

Guys.

You can call it a freaking potato salad for all I care. Does anyone REALLY care about nitpicking categories?

Let's just work together to try to improve it!

I was actually supporting of your original idea and why I think it will work from an Elder Scrolls fans perspective... All is good

driosketch

Argoniawind wrote: »

While I am a true elder scrolls veteran and I agree with the original poster to this difficulty slider thing since it has been in since Morrowind, as I can remember the first version of Morrowind for the xbox didn’t have it and then people complained it was too hard or too easy, so Bethesda put one in. Although I don’t touch the difficulty slider, I feel like it would be excellent to have it in there for ESO as well, after all this is what separates the Elder Scrolls players from the mmo players is the fact by nature Elder Scrolls is a world in which you decide how you wanna play it, kinda like burger king have it your way thing.. Now for mmo players they have what I call play by numbers game play style, being hand held and critiquing everything down to the armor to add ons to keep track of everyone else, deadly boss mobs to a dps counter etc etc and they have their own incomprehensible lingo aka nerf, pug and whatever else. The point is this is gonna be a 2 sided topic and due to the fact that Bethesda wanted to bring Elder Scrolls online and to bring both the elder scrolls and mmo fan bases together in this “open world online rpg”. Now whether or not us as players feel that this slider can be implemented or not is really up to the devs, I would like to see my own summoned daedroth and I would also like to see underwater combat which was not in Skyrim. Again it’s about how much noise from the elder scrolls players that should voice their statements in what we want and not let the voices of the mmo crowd be only heard.. Like they said if people want something and it makes enough noise they will consider it.. after all this is an Elder Scrolls game not a run of the mill mmo!!!

I believe Daggerfall also had a difficulty slider which affected also xp gain. But those are solo games and while I might like a slider, I don't think it's as easy a process to add as some are making it out to be. Thinking up an idea in five minutes is the easy part.

Having played in the beta, the trend seems to have beeen to reduce the difficulty of parts of the game people had trouble with: Dosha, Gutsripper, Manimarco, Molag Bal, the Vet zones and lower Craglorn have all been nerfed. I remember hearing Wildstar did the same with their end game. I think the majority of customers may want an easier game.

Dahveed wrote: »

The "Elder Scrolls/RP guys" are all about taking their time to soak in the atmosphere, delve into the lore, explore the zones and see all the sights, listen to the quest dialogue and try to stay in character. For us (I wouldn't presume to speak for all of "us" of course), we want fun and challenging quests and dungeons as our character progresses and explores Tamriel.

The problem is that most content, with rare exceptions, feels redundant. You just spent the last 60 minutes on this quest chain? gratz, here's the boss. A non-elite leveled NPC who might spout 1 or 2 lines of dialogue before you kill him in 4 seconds, finishing the fight at full health, barely even using your abilities. Then you complete the quest and the loot, while perhaps an upgrade, feels redundant because your character is OP as hell anyways compared to current leveled content.

This is why a simple difficulty slider would be perfect. Straight out of the gates at lvl 1 I could put it on "Master" difficulty to nerf my character's stats... the fights now just got way more challenging, and I can still feel like I can push myself and my character to the highest level possible using all the tools the game provides (gear, talents, buffs, interrupts dodge etc etc) while still having to stay on my toes against powerful opponents.

Actually, the gripe I have as this type of Elder Scrolls player is when another player comes along and kills my boss at the end of the story line before I get there. I have abandoned a current quest line, and picked it up again while I waited for the others to clear and enemies to respawn. Last time it happened, I just told myself, "breathe, it's an MMO," and I continued on.

Unfortunately a personal difficulty slider doesn't help me here if the other guy's on easy mode two shotting my encounter.

Dahveed

Argoniawind wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

SapphireThunder wrote: »

Argoniawind wrote: »

Actually this is not an mmo, infact this is an Elder Scrolls game with some mmo elements for the pc crowd. Elder Scrolls games are "Open World RPGs" ESO is an "Open World Online Rpg". So yeah by your comment about go play Skyrim tells me your new to this series, cus I for one have been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind came out on the original xbox. So and the other thing anything can be implemented to this or any other Elder Scrolls game only if Bethesda and the devs want to make it happen!!

Wrong, this IS an MMO, an MMORPG. MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
This game is Massive (open-world) Multiplayer (a lot people) Online (online) RPG.
No matter what is said, that fact won't change.

You can think what you want even though it is incorrect, and that ESO is infact an "Open World Online Rpg" not an mmo! While your at it you can call it an rts shooter if it makes you get to sleep at night! I explained perfectly what Elder Scrolls games are on and offline!!!

Guys.

You can call it a freaking potato salad for all I care. Does anyone REALLY care about nitpicking categories?

Let's just work together to try to improve it!

I was actually supporting of your original idea and why I think it will work from an Elder Scrolls fans perspective... All is good

Yes, don't worry I wasn't trying to flame or anything... Just being silly and trying to get us back on track

I appreciate your support.

Dahveed

driosketch wrote: »

Actually, the gripe I have as this type of Elder Scrolls player is when another player comes along and kills my boss at the end of the story line before I get there. I have abandoned a current quest line, and picked it up again while I waited for the others to clear and enemies to respawn. Last time it happened, I just told myself, "breathe, it's an MMO," and I continued on.

Unfortunately a personal difficulty slider doesn't help me here if the other guy's on easy mode two shotting my encounter.

There is always that danger, but personally I find this doesn't really happen to me very often. The only exception is at the anchors, which become a complete joke no matter what because there are 5-6 players all just massacring everything and I barely feel like I can get a swing in.

I can live with this happening from time to time, but what I find annoying is how everything is such a complete pushover.

And yes, I think this problem is indeed VERY easily solved by just putting in a debuff option. It doesn't affect anyone else but me, doesn't touch any of the mobs, doesn't have to "phase" or re-level enemies, etc etc. It just increases my damage taken and reduces my damage dealt. Easy peasy.

Now, on ZOS's side they could choose to make it "complicated" by adding different features, toying with the values, bending themselves over backwards to add bells and whistles and so forth. But as a basic mechanic, it is already in the game and just requires a couple hours to stick it into the menus somewhere.

Dahveed

I just want to add that seen from a purely economic viewpoint, this would be a huge cost/benefit advantage for ZOS. People like myself who find more replayability in the game because of greater challenge will stick around longer, become more invested in the game over a longer term, and thus be more incentivized to start nosing around in the real money features of it.

As it is now I have no incentive whatsoever to mess around with their goofy pets or costumes, because I don't really feel immersed in their game nearly as much as I could be, mostly because of the shallowness of the gameplay. Quests zip by me too fast because they are too easy, and I don't appreciate the story and lore I am playing in.

If things were slower, more challenging, and thus more immersive, I would feel more heavily invested in the overall experience and more likely to fork over real money for additional cosmetic features from their store.

NewBlacksmurf

Maybe sale a difficulty position in the crown store (insert sarcasm)

Dahveed

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Maybe sale a difficulty position in the crown store (insert sarcasm)

Sarcastic or not, I would buy it. Seriously.

MercyKilling

*points to sig*

Dahveed

MercyKilling wrote: »

*points to sig*

Ha, well then.

Glad to see we are on the same page

Thanks for your support.

Necrelios

I would like to see this implemented as Mundus Stones. Except foul, corrupted, evil Mundus Stones that curse you in some profound way (perhaps even random at certain stones, for those special adventurers). You could then visit a shrine at some point if you decided the curse was too much to bare.

Dahveed

Necrelios wrote: »

I would like to see this implemented as Mundus Stones. Except foul, corrupted, evil Mundus Stones that curse you in some profound way (perhaps even random at certain stones, for those special adventurers). You could then visit a shrine at some point if you decided the curse was too much to bare.

That would be an interesting, immersive way to go about it. Some sort of in-game curse as a side quest which debuffs the player. Good idea.

Septimus_Magna

Only if it can make the content more difficult but not even easier. And if it applies only to solo content, entering an instance solo for example. If you have trouble with the current content you might want to re-thing your build and/or adjust your play style.

Most decent players can solo 4-man Craglorn dungeon bosses which means the end game pve content is about 3-4x too easy as it is. I remember the time when Storm Atronachs were actually hard to solo, now you can just AOE them down..

Dahveed

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only if it can make the content more difficult but not even easier. And if it applies only to solo content, entering an instance solo for example. If you have trouble with the current content you might want to re-thing your build and/or adjust your play style.

Most decent players can solo 4-man Craglorn dungeon bosses which means the end game pve content is about 3-4x too easy as it is. I remember the time when Storm Atronachs were actually hard to solo, now you can just AOE them down..

Yes, the point I'm trying to make is that we need a slider to make things more challenging.

The current content is already "ultra easy" mode.

nerevarine1138

Dahveed wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only if it can make the content more difficult but not even easier. And if it applies only to solo content, entering an instance solo for example. If you have trouble with the current content you might want to re-thing your build and/or adjust your play style.

Most decent players can solo 4-man Craglorn dungeon bosses which means the end game pve content is about 3-4x too easy as it is. I remember the time when Storm Atronachs were actually hard to solo, now you can just AOE them down..

Yes, the point I'm trying to make is that we need a slider to make things more challenging.

The current content is already "ultra easy" mode.

While I agree about needing more challenging content, "difficulty sliders" don't work in an MMO environment, for all of the reasons previously provided. Even when you apply your idea of giving characters a debuff (instead of phasing them to specific difficulty levels), you then create a coding nightmare for groups. Should novice healers have to deal with a tank who wants to have more of a challenge? Should the whole group suffer because one DPS keeps getting one-shotted by regular hits?

This is an MMO, not a single-player game. Difficulty sliders are a mechanic in single-player games only, and there are a metric buttload of reasons for that.

Dahveed

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only if it can make the content more difficult but not even easier. And if it applies only to solo content, entering an instance solo for example. If you have trouble with the current content you might want to re-thing your build and/or adjust your play style.

Most decent players can solo 4-man Craglorn dungeon bosses which means the end game pve content is about 3-4x too easy as it is. I remember the time when Storm Atronachs were actually hard to solo, now you can just AOE them down..

Yes, the point I'm trying to make is that we need a slider to make things more challenging.

The current content is already "ultra easy" mode.

While I agree about needing more challenging content, "difficulty sliders" don't work in an MMO environment, for all of the reasons previously provided. Even when you apply your idea of giving characters a debuff (instead of phasing them to specific difficulty levels), you then create a coding nightmare for groups. Should novice healers have to deal with a tank who wants to have more of a challenge? Should the whole group suffer because one DPS keeps getting one-shotted by regular hits?

This is an MMO, not a single-player game. Difficulty sliders are a mechanic in single-player games only, and there are a metric buttload of reasons for that.

100% disagree. With everything.

"Should novice healers have to deal with a tank who wants to have more of a challenge?" - No. Therefore, that healer shouldn't group with that tank. Problem solved.

"Should the whole group suffer because one DPS keeps getting one-shotted by regular hits?" - No. They can remove that dps from their group and find a new one.

"This is an MMO, not a single-player game." This is overly simplistic. The vast majority of questing content is single player; indeed, at release it was almost impossible to quest in groups (see Angry Joe's review about this). This is a hybrid Elder Scrolls/multiplayer game with a LOT of single player stuff. I have exactly one friend who plays this game, and so far for about 99% of my playtime (about 100 hours so far) I have been solo.

The reason that all MMOs are the same is because of people like you who come to threads like this and say "All MMOs are the same." Then the MMO dies because of its blandness, lack of content, lack of originality, and lack of difficulty and thus replayability.

The only way this game is going to have any long-term viability for people like myself is to put in a difficulty slider. This could be very easily accomplished. There will occasionally be some minor inconveniences, a few small problems to work out (i.e., how to handle group content), but these would be a very small price to pay to make the game infinitely more interesting and challenging for everyone.

nerevarine1138

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only if it can make the content more difficult but not even easier. And if it applies only to solo content, entering an instance solo for example. If you have trouble with the current content you might want to re-thing your build and/or adjust your play style.

Most decent players can solo 4-man Craglorn dungeon bosses which means the end game pve content is about 3-4x too easy as it is. I remember the time when Storm Atronachs were actually hard to solo, now you can just AOE them down..

Yes, the point I'm trying to make is that we need a slider to make things more challenging.

The current content is already "ultra easy" mode.

While I agree about needing more challenging content, "difficulty sliders" don't work in an MMO environment, for all of the reasons previously provided. Even when you apply your idea of giving characters a debuff (instead of phasing them to specific difficulty levels), you then create a coding nightmare for groups. Should novice healers have to deal with a tank who wants to have more of a challenge? Should the whole group suffer because one DPS keeps getting one-shotted by regular hits?

This is an MMO, not a single-player game. Difficulty sliders are a mechanic in single-player games only, and there are a metric buttload of reasons for that.

100% disagree. With everything.

"Should novice healers have to deal with a tank who wants to have more of a challenge?" - No. Therefore, that healer shouldn't group with that tank. Problem solved.

"Should the whole group suffer because one DPS keeps getting one-shotted by regular hits?" - No. They can remove that dps from their group and find a new one.

"This is an MMO, not a single-player game." This is overly simplistic. The vast majority of questing content is single player; indeed, at release it was almost impossible to quest in groups (see Angry Joe's review about this). This is a hybrid Elder Scrolls/multiplayer game with a LOT of single player stuff. I have exactly one friend who plays this game, and so far for about 99% of my playtime (about 100 hours so far) I have been solo.

The reason that all MMOs are the same is because of people like you who come to threads like this and say "All MMOs are the same." Then the MMO dies because of its blandness, lack of content, lack of originality, and lack of difficulty and thus replayability.

The only way this game is going to have any long-term viability for people like myself is to put in a difficulty slider. This could be very easily accomplished. There will occasionally be some minor inconveniences, a few small problems to work out (i.e., how to handle group content), but these would be a very small price to pay to make the game infinitely more interesting and challenging for everyone.

I'm not saying "all MMOs are the same". That's an extremely disingenuous oversimplification. All MMOs are not the same, but all MMOs are bound by certain mechanical restrictions, by virtue of their being massively multiplayer.

Your experience of mainly playing solo does not necessarily reflect the larger population's experience, and your belief that it will be entirely easy to split up groups of players based on difficulty level without seeing lasting repercussions is just flat-out naive.

Difficulty sliders don't work in MMOs, because you can't just have different groups of people running around in their own game world. That entirely defeats the point of it being massively multiplayer.

Fleshreaper

Delves already take the group leader's Level in to count. It shouldn't be a problem for the delve to look at the group leaders, difficulty settings. As far as letting other players know what difficulty setting the leader has set it's simple enough, the same way you see if a delve is vet or regular.