ESO needs a simple difficulty slider.

Endurance

Dahveed wrote: »

EDIT - A few of you seem a bit confused about the mechanic I am suggesting here, so I will copy/paste a couple paragraphs from a response I added on page 2 to really cut through to the point:

It would simply apply a debuff to your character. This "phasing" nonsense you guys are talking about is quite frankly baffling. Adding a very simple debuff to your character - i.e., "all damage taken is increased by 100%" - is already in their code: any food buff in the game, drink buff, potion buff, ability buff, enemy debuff.... does any of this require "phasing" or complex computational systems of earth-shattering complexity?

Just use this exact same code, apply a debuff to my specific character, and presto! You have fundamentally changed the ENTIRE GAME for the rest of my playthrough. And you have accomplished this with about two hours of dev time, by copy/pasting existing debuff code and putting in an added sub-section to the in-game menu called "difficulty".

ORIGINAL POST:

I won't get into a long-winded and detailed post here about ESO's difficulty, or lack thereof. For those interested in a good discussion about this topic, I encourage you to take a look at this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163184/this-game-is-so-frustratingly-easy-and-i-just-cant-take-it-anymore/p1 (EDIT: changed because of wrong link)

Basically, my suggestion would be a very simple difficulty slider just like Oblivion and Skyrim have, from very easy (which, let's face it, is the base difficulty for ESO at the time I am typing this) to "very hard" or "master".

This slider would only work on an individual player level, so that none of the in-game content is actually affected. The slider would work as a player-specific debuff which affects only the individual player. (Those of you who know WoW, just think of the Resurrection Sickness debuff.)

What the slider(s) would do would effectively nerf the player's damage output and healing received, and increase the damage they receive from monsters. There could even be a separate slider for xp gained, if I decided I wanted to slow down the game as well.

This kind of slider would be extremely easy for ZOS to implement and would not affect those players who enjoy the game as it is currently. Indeed those players literally wouldn't even know that anything has changed.

However players like myself - and there are a LOT of us, I believe - who find ESO to be just way, WAY too easy; childishly so, in fact - can easily make it more challenging without going through the dance of "nerfing ourselves" by choosing non-optimal builds, crappy gear, avoiding strong talents or using ultimates, etc.

I believe this very simple idea would bring the game truly back to life for a lot of people who are tired of the monotony of a very easy quest grind.

I appreciate any support you guys can give, and please let's keep the discussion civil.

Just throw on a shield and a restoration staff and there you have it.. easy mode!

Dahveed

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Despite your assertions that this is a "different type of MMO", you've actually ignored a lot of the mechanical issues presented by segmenting the population in this way. I know you believe the population is already segmented, but it simply isn't. There aren't people running around experiencing the same content as I am at a totally different level of difficulty (which, by the way, is more than just making things hit harder).

This is a completely unfeasible mechanic in an MMO, and it defeats the very purpose of the game being massively multiplayer. If you want a solo Elder Scrolls experience, you have five fantastic games to choose from. No need to try and make this one of them.

If I want to solo this game, then I will solo this game. That is why, so far, I have experienced almost my entire playthrough - so far, about 100 hours total - solo. This is why the only RL friend I know who also plays this game also plays it solo, and he's played more than I have. Are we not allowed to have fun? Is our "segmented" experience going to rain on your parade in any way?

Tell me - name ONE THING - that would change in your life if my 100 hours of SOLO PLAY were in a context in which I took more damage when enemies hit me. All this time I've been playing 100% solo, segmented, completely detached from what others are doing, completely removed from your experience of the game, and both you and I have been completely oblivious of one another - yes, that's right, you and I have played this game for a total of zero hours together.

And you know what? I AM enjoying the game. Immensely, in fact. As a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, doing virtually no group content, just questing, gearing up, crafting, exploring, finding treasure maps, occasionally asking for help in the /trade section - which just saves me a couple minutes searching google. THAT is the extent of my "multiplayer" experience so far.

So please stop telling me how I am supposed to play this game. I already know how.

The only thing I am requesting is one simple feature which would make MY SOLO EXPERIENCE OF THIS GAME a little bit more challenging, which would IN NO WAY infringe upon your ability to experience it as a multiplayer adventure.

Yes, it would be incredibly easy to implement. I have explained how.

No, it would not "segment" me from the rest of the players, as I am already 100% segmented from all other players except for one colleague from work whom I occasionally (like once every 3 weeks) group with.

It would not affect you or people you play with in any way whatsoever.

And yes, it is entirely possible with a tiny amount of effort from the developers, and far less negativity from condescending naysayers who believe that they somehow know all the secrets about the inner workings of an MMO and the catastrophic effects that one small change would incur.

Changes happen in MMOs ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Literally every. single. patch. something major is changing. Indeed fundamental, revolutionary changes happen on a regular basis in MMOs (did you not know this, or is this your first MMO?)... so you can't tell me that this simple slider which effects only my character will somehow change the entire dynamic of the entire MMO community for all time.

Finally, the "agree to disagree" point is not well taken. I've found that no matter how hard you try, you just can't convince people on the internet about anything, which is why I am getting fed up.

It's like I'm telling you that 2+2=4, then you're going off about the molecular structure of Jupiter to disprove my point.

The game works in the way that calculations and interactions are based on static
IF the difficulty of your experience is altered for you enjoyed, by default EVERYONE who is online when you're online has to play with that difficulty. This presents a problem for you and others

IF they allowed this, what happens is whomever sets the ease or difficulty controls EVERYONE else's experience. You describe wanting something to only alter your character vs the NPC's.

Again, if you change yourself the game has to adjust its calculations to you and everyone else. Unfortunately, when playing in an online world...be instances is the only way to accomplish this so in essence, for solo only, this limits you to changing the difficulty in solo only areas. That's a very small part of the game and a one and done situation.

I know it's hard to comprehend why ZOS can't just change your player only for your benefit but every variable requires server calculations so if not instances, the added millions of calculations for each person who wants what you desire overloads the server.

Yet another person who completely misses the point. Read my post again.

There are NO calculations to do. No NPC tweaking to do. No mobs to adjust. Everything in the entire game world stays EXACTLY as it is.

THE ONLY ASSET IN THE ENTIRE GAME WORLD WHICH WOULD CHANGE WOULD BE MY CHARACTER'S STATS.

If your character casts a buff on himself, does every NPC in the entire game world change for every player on the server?

No, of course it doesn't. It just changes YOUR stats, nobody else's.

If they used this same buff/debuff principle ON MY CHARACTER AND ONLY ON MY CHARACTER to debuff me, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE in the world, in the same way that nothing would change in the game world when you eat a piece of buff food.

Yet another "expert" coming in here with their naysaying condescension who hasn't even bothered to understand the post.

It's getting frustrating now.

I read it all...do you understand how games work when played on a server?
Do you realize that your character is not on your computer nor the world they interact with.

IF your character stats were able to be changed, others would have the same option.
The way your character does damage, takes damage and collide with the world is all based on calculations.

Just making the character stats change are calculations. So in order for you to have this experience, others will also get the option...not just you. I don't want this but you do...so if you and I are hitting the same areas, the game is going to calculate the two different interactions just like it does today BUT your adding another player variable so this doubles the calculations

In order for any change in cause and affect to occur, calculations have to be programmed and then done server side so your gaming experience represents any adjustments.

If your character is to take more damage or have a tougher experience but another chapter has today's experience...the server has to be able to process both simultaneously because unless you're in a solo only instances zone, any other player can collide and different calculations must occur for each collision.

Sorry but this is how server based technology works. Please don't be rude to others because you're not hearing what you want to hear

The server is struggling as is

I'm sorry @NewBlacksmurf I am not understanding your view, could you please clarify the mechanical problems with a player based debuff? I mean suppose we made the debuff a food item ( a slider is better but a food item for explanation). Suppose when I eat a "questionable meat sack" I get sick and it causes my health and stamina to be decreased by 25% for an hour (or any other combination of stats). The extra calculations you refer to are simply a one time calculation that occurs when the change applies and reassigning the stored constants utilized for the other calculations which already occur. This is no more difficult on the server than simply equipping / unequippimg a set of gear. It only impacts your player and those whom your player groups with....and guess what if someone doesn't like how my settings are there are two easy fixes (I can slide my slider and accommodate them or they can find someone else to play with).

Suppose I am cruising along on difficult mode and run into a fight and die a few times....slider down beat the encounter, slider back up....no frustration on my part (well not more than I choose). Noobie players can learn and more advanced players can be required strict adherence to the mechanics.

I still think the difficulty of the mechanics should be increased (and a slider added in) easy mode messing up on mechanics you can still be just fine. Hard mode if you mess up too much you can easily die. The enemy uses the same mechanics now matter what your difficulty but on harder difficulty the mechanics are a range of increases in how punishing they are.

I do not see how you find this to be problematic from a server standpoint a mechanics stand point or even a community standpoint if it is a slider in your options window that can be changed at anytime. Please elaborate your concerns?

Do you understand how food n drink buffs work now?
The same would have to be programmed

The problem isn't with a food debuff but it's with the "slider" ideas. That just can't happen in this type of game because content is either scaled or set. You're desiring a real time customizable experience per player.

Every time the slider is moved a player would have to either log off and back on or completely reload into the world (because the world won't change) so this requires the server to build in "x" amount of calculations per notch on the slider and per player multiplied by however many players are online.

What I'm saying is your idea requires a super computer server and no game with a mega server is running that kinda juice. Also the cou and ram requirements to up exponentially with this idea so again....nope

Edit. All this considering any other player will change your slider once they hit anything your engaged in combat with. Human nature is when someone is struggling others come to help so the MMO structure prevents any of this unless you're in a solo only instance.

As far as rewards...NO. Rewards should not be given for this idea. The reward is survival

Since when does applying a buff or debuff to a character in an MMO require a supercomputer?

Every time I adjust my slider, it applies a buff or debuff to my character, THAT'S IT. When was the last time I had to log off and back in again when I ate a piece of food? Or clicked one of my abilities during combat? Jesus, literally every couple of seconds - during combat, when other players are on the screen - mad debuffs and buffs are happening. And no supercomputer ever melts.

My personal slider would be applied maybe once or twice an hour - having the same "server impact" (lol!) that eating a piece of food once or twice an hour, or using one of my class abilities would have once or twice an hour.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Dahveed

Necrelios wrote: »

@nerevarine1138 RIFT is an MMO with a difficulty slider almost exactly like the OP suggests. There are some others as well that provide a debuff feature. It's actually fairly simple to implement as it's a mechanic already in the game.

Thank you, I didn't know about Rift otherwise I would have used it as an example.

Can you specifically mention other games which do this? People have mentioned DDO but the way I understand it, they're referring more to instanced play.

The more we can provide specific examples, the more ammunition we have about those "curmudgeonly cynics"

Faugaun

Dahveed wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

@nerevarine1138 RIFT is an MMO with a difficulty slider almost exactly like the OP suggests. There are some others as well that provide a debuff feature. It's actually fairly simple to implement as it's a mechanic already in the game.

Thank you, I didn't know about Rift otherwise I would have used it as an example.

Can you specifically mention other games which do this? People have mentioned DDO but the way I understand it, they're referring more to instanced play.

The more we can provide specific examples, the more ammunition we have about those "curmudgeonly cynics"

I don't think they are cynics....I think its intentional disruption of conversation for their own entertainment....I've considered using ignore a few times today....will it completely remove their posts and everything from my screen? I've never ignored someone on these forums

Alphashado

newtinmpls wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Doesn't matter if it's permanent or not. You're creating 5 different "tiers" of dungeon groups.

Yup, which I see as an advantage.

This is where I strongly disagree and the main reason I am against adding even more levels of difficulty to choose from than we already have.

There is a limited number of people playing the game. A finite amount of accounts per say.

Then we take that total number and divide it by 3 since there are 3 factions that cannot group together.

So now each player has 1/3 of the player base that is a potential group member for a dungeon. Or 33%

Now if you have 3 tiers of difficulty to choose from, you further divide 33% by 3 which brings you down to 11%.

See where I'm going with this? For every tier of difficulty you add, you are dramatically reducing the number of people that are interested in grouping with you for dungeons or other content.

Finding groups is already a pain in the arse in ESO, especially considering the sad state of the LFG tool. I am firmly against anything that could make it even more difficult to find a group. If someone can convince me (and likely ZoS) that this will not become an issue AT ALL, then I can support it. But until then I am against it. The main reason DDO has such a low population is because it really isn't an MMO in the minds of most people. It's more of a COOP game because the difficulty slider requires everything to be an independent instance that is scaled to each player or their group.

ESO is designed to be as close to an open sandbox MMO as it can be while still being theme park. So unless someone can convince me and ZoS that there is a way to make difficulty sliders work so they do not effect the number of available, like-minded people to group with in any way, shape or form... I can't support it. Nor do I think ZoS will because it clearly isn't what they envision for their game.

Dahveed

Alphashado wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Doesn't matter if it's permanent or not. You're creating 5 different "tiers" of dungeon groups.

Yup, which I see as an advantage.

This is where I strongly disagree and the main reason I am against adding even more levels of difficulty to choose from than we already have.

There is a limited number of people playing the game. A finite amount of accounts per say.

Then we take that total number and divide it by 3 since there are 3 factions that cannot group together.

So now each player has 1/3 of the player base that is a potential group member for a dungeon. Or 33%

Now if you have 3 tiers of difficulty to choose from, you further divide 33% by 3 which brings you down to 11%.

See where I'm going with this? For every tier of difficulty you add, you are dramatically reducing the number of people that are interested in grouping with you for dungeons or other content.

Finding groups is already a pain in the arse in ESO, especially considering the sad state of the LFG tool. I am firmly against anything that could make it even more difficult to find a group. If someone can convince me (and likely ZoS) that this will not become an issue AT ALL, then I can support it. But until then I am against it. The main reason DDO has such a low population is because it really isn't an MMO in the minds of most people. It's more of a COOP game because the difficulty slider requires everything to be an independent instance that is scaled to each player or their group.

ESO is designed to be as close to an open sandbox MMO as it can be while still being theme park. So unless someone can convince me and ZoS that there is a way to make difficulty sliders work so they do not effect the number of available, like-minded people to group with in any way, shape or form... I can't support it. Nor do I think ZoS will because it clearly isn't what they envision for their game.

Well Alphashado, I appreciate your candor. You're one of the first people to disagree with my idea who truly has a valid concern.

While I do appreciate your misgivings, I honestly think that this is something that can be addressed relatively easily.

You worry that you would have less people to group with... but as myself and others have pointed out, instances, dungeons, group content etc is something that can quite easily be scaled. How they'd go about it is up to them, but this is something that is already accomplished in the game in its current form.

Once again, it's something that would require just a bit of tweaking so that groups can still be scaled to eachother.

Personally I wouldn't care very much; if, for example, the difficulty slider were to just disappear altogether if I joined a group, and the game would just default to vanilla difficulty, honestly I could live with that. Dungeons are their own bag of potatoes and I wouldn't worry about them nearly as much.

What I want personally is the feeling that my character is personally in danger when exploring the lands around me. When I start swinging at someone with my giant greatsword, him and his buddies will also get mad... and guess what? They ALSO have big pointy things they can stick me with, and that is DANGEROUS!

Currently as I travel around, there is absolutely NO feeling of danger ANYWHERE. And as I've mentioned before, I am not even that good at video games. This is my first character and I have nowhere close to an optimal build, gear, etc... yet nothing ever feels dangerous.

I played Oblivion with mods yesterday just for nostalgia's sake. By the time I got out of the Imperial sewer tutorial and into the Imperial city itself, I had died at least a dozen times.... Because if a goblin stabs me in the neck, IT HURTS, I BLEED, AND PROBABLY DIE. I have Skyrim set up the same way. When the difficulty is on Master or greater, swords stabbed into my neck are generally problematic.

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

nerevarine1138

Dahveed wrote: »

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

Ah, then this is the heart of the problem.

There is no MMO on earth, anywhere, ever, that will give you that kind of experience when playing solo. It simply isn't conducive to a good environment for a large number of players.

As has been stated throughout this thread, you clearly are looking for the next Elder Scrolls single-player game. This is not that game, nor should it become that game. Elder Scrolls VI will be coming out in the future, but until then, you have plenty of single-player titles to choose from.

lioslinn

I must say I'm also on the 'this game is far too easy' bandwagon. I still play at times because it still has some of that elder scrolls indescribable ambiance - my all time favorite quality in a game, immersion. But it does seem impossible to just wander and explore the game with any sense of real danger or threat. I would like a debuff to make it actually challenging. I've been playing MMOs forever and I'm always disapointed with the constant kneejerk reaction by the higher ups to nerf the game at the slightest whine from players.

Sure, the game can start simple and easy, but it would be nice if the difficulty curve increased and it became challenging eventually.

But as a software developer I'll chime in to say it's never as simple as it seems. There are too many variables. It would take a lot LOT longer than 48 hours to develop.

Hey we can dream

bloodenragedb14_ESO

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

a difficulty slider? no, but maybe a level slider, allowing you to scale your level to the area you are in. allowing you to actually get some fun exploring lowbie area's every once and awhile. i mean, there is no reason to backtrack once you outlevel a area, and there is no fun in steamrolling the enemies in a lowbie area.

i quote upon myself.....we need a level slider, not a difficulty slider

Alphashado

Dahveed wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Doesn't matter if it's permanent or not. You're creating 5 different "tiers" of dungeon groups.

Yup, which I see as an advantage.

This is where I strongly disagree and the main reason I am against adding even more levels of difficulty to choose from than we already have.

There is a limited number of people playing the game. A finite amount of accounts per say.

Then we take that total number and divide it by 3 since there are 3 factions that cannot group together.

So now each player has 1/3 of the player base that is a potential group member for a dungeon. Or 33%

Now if you have 3 tiers of difficulty to choose from, you further divide 33% by 3 which brings you down to 11%.

See where I'm going with this? For every tier of difficulty you add, you are dramatically reducing the number of people that are interested in grouping with you for dungeons or other content.

Finding groups is already a pain in the arse in ESO, especially considering the sad state of the LFG tool. I am firmly against anything that could make it even more difficult to find a group. If someone can convince me (and likely ZoS) that this will not become an issue AT ALL, then I can support it. But until then I am against it. The main reason DDO has such a low population is because it really isn't an MMO in the minds of most people. It's more of a COOP game because the difficulty slider requires everything to be an independent instance that is scaled to each player or their group.

ESO is designed to be as close to an open sandbox MMO as it can be while still being theme park. So unless someone can convince me and ZoS that there is a way to make difficulty sliders work so they do not effect the number of available, like-minded people to group with in any way, shape or form... I can't support it. Nor do I think ZoS will because it clearly isn't what they envision for their game.

Well Alphashado, I appreciate your candor. You're one of the first people to disagree with my idea who truly has a valid concern.

While I do appreciate your misgivings, I honestly think that this is something that can be addressed relatively easily.

You worry that you would have less people to group with... but as myself and others have pointed out, instances, dungeons, group content etc is something that can quite easily be scaled. How they'd go about it is up to them, but this is something that is already accomplished in the game in its current form.

Once again, it's something that would require just a bit of tweaking so that groups can still be scaled to eachother.

Personally I wouldn't care very much; if, for example, the difficulty slider were to just disappear altogether if I joined a group, and the game would just default to vanilla difficulty, honestly I could live with that. Dungeons are their own bag of potatoes and I wouldn't worry about them nearly as much.

What I want personally is the feeling that my character is personally in danger when exploring the lands around me. When I start swinging at someone with my giant greatsword, him and his buddies will also get mad... and guess what? They ALSO have big pointy things they can stick me with, and that is DANGEROUS!

Currently as I travel around, there is absolutely NO feeling of danger ANYWHERE. And as I've mentioned before, I am not even that good at video games. This is my first character and I have nowhere close to an optimal build, gear, etc... yet nothing ever feels dangerous.

I played Oblivion with mods yesterday just for nostalgia's sake. By the time I got out of the Imperial sewer tutorial and into the Imperial city itself, I had died at least a dozen times.... Because if a goblin stabs me in the neck, IT HURTS, I BLEED, AND PROBABLY DIE. I have Skyrim set up the same way. When the difficulty is on Master or greater, swords stabbed into my neck are generally problematic.

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There are archers in Craglorn that will one-shot-instant-death-kill you if you don't block them. They do 28k damage. This has been brought up before as an example and the response what "well they call out aimed shot and you just have to block or move". My question is: Would you rather there be no warning? Would you rather these shots be unblockable? Would you truly find more entertainment value in just randomly getting shot dead on the spot with no warning?

If that is really what you are looking for, then as others have said, you are going to have a hard time finding it. That type of MMO just doesn't exist outside the realm of PvP because there is no market for it.

Unless you are talking about 1-50 zones, and those are for new players still learning mechanics. Of course they are going to be easy for vet players on their alts. Even more so with Champion Points. But CP is a separate issue because new players don't have those either.

Like I said, I am all for difficulty sliders if ZOS can pull it off w/o minimizing my MMO grouping experience. I remain highly doubtful, but I am open to the possibility. I am more inclined to consider debuff food as a viable approach as long as the debuff vanished as soon as you joined a group.

Dahveed

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There is no MMO on earth, anywhere, ever, that will give you that kind of experience when playing solo.

Yes, Vanilla WoW was like this.

I would be out soloing with my lvl 14 warrior in the barrens, then out of nowhere a lvl 13 elite that I hadn't noticed would just squash me.

In the 20s I'd go to Stranglethorn Vale, complete Nesingwary's hunting quest, get to the end, then the elite Tiger (forget his name) would maul my face.

In TBC my brother and I were questing, killing mobs, the same old hum-drum, when the Fel Reaver (who I hadn't seen for some reason... mostly because I suck, lol) actually patrolled through us and squashed our brains into jelly.

Hell even when my noob warrior was prepared for the fight, another non-elite NPC I hadn't noticed would jump into the fight and I'd be in a fight to the death. If (Talos forbid) a third NPC also joined, I was screwed.

This used to be the norm for MMOs, until the last few years when "nerf everything" became the rallying cry of pretty much ever game dev on the planet.

It is not inconceivable, because this type of game used to exist, even in MMOs.

Quit being so damned cynical and negative, it's getting tiring.

nerevarine1138

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There is no MMO on earth, anywhere, ever, that will give you that kind of experience when playing solo.

Yes, Vanilla WoW was like this.

I would be out soloing with my lvl 14 warrior in the barrens, then out of nowhere a lvl 13 elite that I hadn't noticed would just squash me.

In the 20s I'd go to Stranglethorn Vale, complete Nesingwary's hunting quest, get to the end, then the elite Tiger (forget his name) would maul my face.

In TBC my brother and I were questing, killing mobs, the same old hum-drum, when the Fel Reaver (who I hadn't seen for some reason... mostly because I suck, lol) actually patrolled through us and squashed our brains into jelly.

Hell even when my noob warrior was prepared for the fight, another non-elite NPC I hadn't noticed would jump into the fight and I'd be in a fight to the death. If (Talos forbid) a third NPC also joined, I was screwed.

This used to be the norm for MMOs, until the last few years when "nerf everything" became the rallying cry of pretty much ever game dev on the planet.

It is not inconceivable, because this type of game used to exist, even in MMOs.

Quit being so damned cynical and negative, it's getting tiring.

I want more challenge as well, but you're flat-out lying now. WoW (and every other RPG) has never had regular mobs deal "realistic" damage.

Faugaun

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There is no MMO on earth, anywhere, ever, that will give you that kind of experience when playing solo.

Yes, Vanilla WoW was like this.

I would be out soloing with my lvl 14 warrior in the barrens, then out of nowhere a lvl 13 elite that I hadn't noticed would just squash me.

In the 20s I'd go to Stranglethorn Vale, complete Nesingwary's hunting quest, get to the end, then the elite Tiger (forget his name) would maul my face.

In TBC my brother and I were questing, killing mobs, the same old hum-drum, when the Fel Reaver (who I hadn't seen for some reason... mostly because I suck, lol) actually patrolled through us and squashed our brains into jelly.

Hell even when my noob warrior was prepared for the fight, another non-elite NPC I hadn't noticed would jump into the fight and I'd be in a fight to the death. If (Talos forbid) a third NPC also joined, I was screwed.

This used to be the norm for MMOs, until the last few years when "nerf everything" became the rallying cry of pretty much ever game dev on the planet.

It is not inconceivable, because this type of game used to exist, even in MMOs.

Quit being so damned cynical and negative, it's getting tiring.

I want more challenge as well, but you're flat-out lying now. WoW (and every other RPG) has never had regular mobs deal "realistic" damage.

Vanilla wow was a lot more challenging that vanilla ESO...and vanilla ESO was a lot more challenging than current ESO.

Dahveed

Alphashado wrote: »

Of course they are going to be easy for vet players on their alts. Even more so with Champion Points. But CP is a separate issue because new players don't have those either.

TL;DR - I am not a vet, I SUCK at games and this is my first character... Yet I find ESO to be way, way too easy. Sorry but my post got out of control and I wrote you an essay :P

This is an important part of the equation that you guys keep getting wrong.

I am NOT a vet player on an alt.

This is my FIRST character, my MAIN. and I am 38 years old now and I SUCK REALLY BADLY at video games.

Just ask some of my friends... I tried playing Counter Strike for about 20 minutes and they couldn't stop laughing at me. In WoW arenas I never once got past 1600 rating, in a system in which pretty much everyone who didn't have at *least* 2200 rating was considered a joke. I played Starcraft 2 pvp for a couple weeks because I remembered being awesome at it when I was 23... but quit when I realized that only about 4 years of practice would get me out of the noob leagues.

Back when I was 16 I was a local video game legend, but here in my old casual age with my full time job in real life, I have come to accept how my glory days are long past.

And yet here I am, basically immune to failure on my first character... a big, dumb nord who just runs around and whacks things with his big shiny sword. And the game just feels utterly worthless.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the game... at the beginning I actually thought it was cool. Interesting combat mechanics, fantastic graphics, voice acting, neat crafting, pvp (eventually even though I'll probably get pwnd), treasure hunting, easter eggs, books, lore, community, etc etc etc.

Notwithstanding all of these things, the game still just feels like a walking corpse... Purely because of a numbers issue. When NPCs hit me, it just doesn't hurt. Therefore I have no incentive to get out of the way. When I hit them, their heads immediately explode.

People in this thread have mentioned that"difficulty is about more than just numbers, it's about mechanics. I happen to agree; so far I think the mechanics of this game have been absolutely terrific for an MMO. However if the numbers are so broken and nerfed so that I don't even take damage in a fight, then what is the point of having ANY of the mechanics in the first place?

Granted in my later vet grind, end game, etc, I might be singing a different tune. But right now, after almost 100 hours of playing the game, I am completely bored to tears.

At the outset I was excited about the prospect of making a new character for each alliance so I could fully explore all the zones and experience all the quests using different play styles and seeing the game for all it was worth. But if it's going to be this incredibly boring, then I doubt I ever will.

Dahveed

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

In ESO, if a small army of soldiers shoot 8 arrows into my neck and hack away at me 14 times with their swords and light my face on fire with a spell, I'm all like, "meh", then turn around and end them in 2 hits.

It's such an incredible feeling of letdown and boredom that I just can't believe they even have the name "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There is no MMO on earth, anywhere, ever, that will give you that kind of experience when playing solo.

Yes, Vanilla WoW was like this.

I would be out soloing with my lvl 14 warrior in the barrens, then out of nowhere a lvl 13 elite that I hadn't noticed would just squash me.

In the 20s I'd go to Stranglethorn Vale, complete Nesingwary's hunting quest, get to the end, then the elite Tiger (forget his name) would maul my face.

In TBC my brother and I were questing, killing mobs, the same old hum-drum, when the Fel Reaver (who I hadn't seen for some reason... mostly because I suck, lol) actually patrolled through us and squashed our brains into jelly.

Hell even when my noob warrior was prepared for the fight, another non-elite NPC I hadn't noticed would jump into the fight and I'd be in a fight to the death. If (Talos forbid) a third NPC also joined, I was screwed.

This used to be the norm for MMOs, until the last few years when "nerf everything" became the rallying cry of pretty much ever game dev on the planet.

It is not inconceivable, because this type of game used to exist, even in MMOs.

Quit being so damned cynical and negative, it's getting tiring.

I want more challenge as well, but you're flat-out lying now. WoW (and every other RPG) has never had regular mobs deal "realistic" damage.

I never said 100% realistic, but deadly yes. Many, many things in vanilla WoW questing could kill players. My 14,783 deaths before reaching cap can attest to this.

Keep up the personal attacks though, it really brings credibility to your arguments...

redsteelb16_ESO

Agree with the OP

If players had the ability to down level (or debuff) themselves it would allow players to control the difficulty. This would let players feel like they are always in the right area.

Maybe also, to give an incentive, reward players with a temporary Luck buff if they defeat a boss while downleveled.

qsnoopyjr

I would like this difficulty slider, I set it to easy so guards stop hitting me like a truck!!

Dahveed

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

I would like this difficulty slider, I set it to easy so guards stop hitting me like a truck!!

Appreciate the support, but you've got it backwards. People who support the slider are usually the ones who want more difficulty, not less.

However I agree with you that the guards being OP gods is an issue, but that is for a different thread altogether.

inMorsAeterna

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

Dahveed

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage at low levels?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

Alphashado

Dahveed wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

level 32.....wow.

I will try to say this nicely because I honestly do not want to offend you. But perhaps you should experience the other 150 levels of the game before you crucify it. (Each VR is = to roughly 10 normal levels and there are 14 of them starting at lvl 50)

You have been playing the game for a little over a week. You are still in newbie zones and you have just barely even cracked the surface of what this game has in store for you. In fact it's fair to say that the game doesn't even really start until lvl 50.

Just to put how much further you have to go into perspective, I currently leveling a NB. She is VR12. The cap is VR14. So she still has 2 VRs to go. That being said, I just checked and that character alone has 20 days and 6 hours of game time on her. So that's 486 hours, and she isn't even to the cap yet and that is with a fair amount of grinding. Plus she is my 3rd VR character so I've gotten much faster at leveling.

Given your rate of progression, you are looking at 500-600 hours at the very least before you even get to the true endgame content. You are not even 1/5 of the way through the game and you are making alot of assumptions based off your VERY limited exposure to easy, low level zones.

I sincerely pray that ZoS pays very close attention to the details of threads like this because if they make serious changes to the game based on feedback from someone with such limited exposure to the content, we are all in trouble.

Dahveed

Alphashado wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

level 32.....wow.

I will try to say this nicely because I honestly do not want to offend you. But perhaps you should experience the other 150 levels of the game before you crucify it. (Each VR is = to roughly 10 normal levels and there are 14 of them starting at lvl 50)

You have been playing the game for a little over a week. You are still in newbie zones and you have just barely even cracked the surface of what this game has in store for you. In fact it's fair to say that the game doesn't even really start until lvl 50.

Just to put how much further you have to go into perspective, I currently leveling a NB. She is VR12. The cap is VR14. So she still has 2 VRs to go. That being said, I just checked and that character alone has 20 days and 6 hours of game time on her. So that's 486 hours, and she isn't even to the cap yet and that is with a fair amount of grinding. Plus she is my 3rd VR character so I've gotten much faster at leveling.

Given your rate of progression, you are looking at 500-600 hours at the very least before you even get to the true endgame content. You are not even 1/5 of the way through the game and you are making alot of assumptions based off your VERY limited exposure to easy, low level zones.

I sincerely pray that ZoS pays very close attention to the details of threads like this because if they make serious changes to the game based on feedback from someone with such limited exposure to the content, we are all in trouble.

So in order to get to the fun stuff, all I have to do is play for another 500 hours!


......don't you see the problem with this argument?

Dahveed

Alphashado wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

level 32.....wow.

I will try to say this nicely because I honestly do not want to offend you. But perhaps you should experience the other 150 levels of the game before you crucify it. (Each VR is = to roughly 10 normal levels and there are 14 of them starting at lvl 50)

You have been playing the game for a little over a week. You are still in newbie zones and you have just barely even cracked the surface of what this game has in store for you. In fact it's fair to say that the game doesn't even really start until lvl 50.

Just to put how much further you have to go into perspective, I currently leveling a NB. She is VR12. The cap is VR14. So she still has 2 VRs to go. That being said, I just checked and that character alone has 20 days and 6 hours of game time on her. So that's 486 hours, and she isn't even to the cap yet and that is with a fair amount of grinding. Plus she is my 3rd VR character so I've gotten much faster at leveling.

Given your rate of progression, you are looking at 500-600 hours at the very least before you even get to the true endgame content. You are not even 1/5 of the way through the game and you are making alot of assumptions based off your VERY limited exposure to easy, low level zones.

I sincerely pray that ZoS pays very close attention to the details of threads like this because if they make serious changes to the game based on feedback from someone with such limited exposure to the content, we are all in trouble.

Also, two more notes very quickly.

1 - I'm not trashing the game. I'm singing its praises, but trying to give constructive feedback with a suggestion. Sorry if it comes across as mostly negative, but that's what criticism is, really.

2 - I would argue that ZoS does indeed need to pay attention to criticism from people just starting out, because these are the people they need to latch onto if they want their game to succeed. If new players with less than 50 or 100 hours don't find anything truly engaging up to that point, they are in BIG trouble in the long term.

Cazic

Dahveed wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage at low levels?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

You're only level 32? Wow, then this discussion is just as pointless as I thought. No offense, but it's hard to give you enough credibility to justify making a game-changing suggestion like this when you have't even really experienced the game.

The true challenges and range of difficulty in ESO don't even open up until you've hit level 50 and get into the veteran ranks.

Tapio75

This difficulty slider would be great..

But not too many options, maybe easy, normal, hard and expert...

Each should also have their own instance everywhere so that people will only play with people who play the same difficulty level..

Dahveed

Cazic wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage at low levels?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

You're only level 32? Wow, then this discussion is just as pointless as I thought. No offense, but it's hard to give you enough credibility to justify making a game-changing suggestion like this when you have't even really experienced the game.

The true challenges and range of difficulty in ESO don't even open up until you've hit level 50 and get into the veteran ranks.

This is exactly why a lot of MMOs don't grow their populations, because elitist grinders like you come along and tell casuals that they aren't allowed to play unless they have a max level toon that they have spent 400 hours on.

I want to have fun without blasting through all the content and just winning a damned trophy. Your are telling me that 86 hours isn't enough to experience a video game? That's like telling someone who doesn't like Game of Thrones that watching 8 episodes isn't enough to "experience" Game of Thrones. You have to watch five seasons, then it starts to get good!

In Oblivion I didn't beat the game until I had 328 hours on my character.

In Skyrim, I have played 1,500 hours and have beaten the main quest ONCE.

In ESO I have almost 100 hours played, and I am in no rush whatsoever to get to the end just so I can say "there, I beat it."

If they want this to be an Elder Scrolls game in anything but name only, they need to take this play style into account. There is a vast population of Elder Scrolls players who just look at this leveling experience and think, "bleh."

If they want to alienate vast numbers of players, then I guess they should just keep pushing in the "uber easy *** mode" in all content except end game just like every other brainless grindfest MMO. In that respect I suppose people like you and Nerevarine1138 are right, this just isn't the game for people like me.

Congratulations, your whining and selfishness have pushed us away, you can have this boring race to end game all to yourselves. Is that what you want? Or would you rather that they attracted more players to keep the game alive?

One of the big reasons a lot of reviewers on Youtube and Metacritic give this game a lackluster score is because it is just flat out BORING to play because it feels like a grind as you level up. Most of these reviewers probably didn't stick around to do all the end game stuff simply because they didn't have the patience to grind through countless hours of boring fetch quest nonsense to get to the good stuff.

The potential is there. The mechanics are in place. The game has a LOT going for it. All they need to do is give an option to tweak the numbers so that my decisions feel like they have purpose.

Cazic

Dahveed wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

Just play nekkid like I do.

But for real, start doing scaled up dungeons, do trials, pvp, do hardmode trials, do sanctum ophidia.

If this game is too easy for you, you are either one of the 100 top scoring trials players, or you aren't playing the right content. Get to the end game and reavaluate your post.

I have played 100 hours and I'm only level 32.

Is EVERYTHING in EVERY online game on the planet supposed to be unplayable garbage at low levels?

This is an Elder Scrolls game, which is supposed to be about exploration and questing at its base. According to the company that made it, it's an ES/MMO hybrid... which means that a lot of emphasis and effort should be put on ES style exploration and questing.

They need to make it more engaging.

You're only level 32? Wow, then this discussion is just as pointless as I thought. No offense, but it's hard to give you enough credibility to justify making a game-changing suggestion like this when you have't even really experienced the game.

The true challenges and range of difficulty in ESO don't even open up until you've hit level 50 and get into the veteran ranks.

This is exactly why a lot of MMOs don't grow their populations, because elitist grinders like you come along and tell casuals that they aren't allowed to play unless they have a max level toon that they have spent 400 hours on.

I want to have fun without blasting through all the content and just winning a damned trophy. Your are telling me that 86 hours isn't enough to experience a video game? That's like telling someone who doesn't like Game of Thrones that watching 8 episodes isn't enough to "experience" Game of Thrones. You have to watch five seasons, then it starts to get good!

In Oblivion I didn't beat the game until I had 328 hours on my character.

In Skyrim, I have played 1,500 hours and have beaten the main quest ONCE.

In ESO I have almost 100 hours played, and I am in no rush whatsoever to get to the end just so I can say "there, I beat it."

If they want this to be an Elder Scrolls game in anything but name only, they need to take this play style into account. There is a vast population of Elder Scrolls players who just look at this leveling experience and think, "bleh."

If they want to alienate vast numbers of players, then I guess they should just keep pushing in the "uber easy *** mode" in all content except end game just like every other brainless grindfest MMO. In that respect I suppose people like you and Nerevarine1138 are right, this just isn't the game for people like me.

Congratulations, your whining and selfishness have pushed us away, you can have this boring race to end game all to yourselves. Is that what you want? Or would you rather that they attracted more players to keep the game alive?

One of the big reasons a lot of reviewers on Youtube and Metacritic give this game a lackluster score is because it is just flat out BORING to play because it feels like a grind as you level up. Most of these reviewers probably didn't stick around to do all the end game stuff simply because they didn't have the patience to grind through countless hours of boring fetch quest nonsense to get to the good stuff.

The potential is there. The mechanics are in place. The game has a LOT going for it. All they need to do is give an option to tweak the numbers so that my decisions feel like they have purpose.

I'm not an elitist, or a grinder. I have one VR10 character.

And I agree that the game should be more difficult, just not that a difficulty slider is the solution.

hopesfall

this seems like a good idea, i haven't played the game yet (bought it yesterday, still downloading) but a slider like this would not only be awesome here but it would freshen up the MMO scene (like GW2 level scaling, only this sounds way better).
I imagine you would get more gold/magic find/exp as you turn up the slider too, that would be neat.

jpp

I like the idea, especially during PvP it would be nice to make difficulty maximum easy and kill hundreds of enemies to get emperor quickly.

Faugaun

@Alphashado and @Cazic I'm vr14, vr4 and my wife is vr14vr1,vr1,vr1 and my coworker his wife and friend have multiple vr toons we have all talked and all agree its ez mode