So a 50% should add with a 50% for 100% and then applying the bonus? Instead of multiplying the two for a 75% bonus and then applying the bonus?

I think multiplicative is better. They probably just apply the first bonus then multiply the second, then apply the new bonus. They need to multiply the bonuses then apply to the base.

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

See I'd say yes they are too much if every class had a self heal like GDB or BoL etc but since they don't I think shields are just fine atm as they are.

Its the damage shields on sorcs that ppl are complaining about... not the shields in general

then yes I think the dmg shield in the sorc tree can create unfair advantage as now shields are recastable even before the previous shield has ended, do I think the shield on sorcs is needed due to lack of a heal in the sorc trees the answer is yes, do I think the shield is too large the answer is yes.

things zos could to make things better,
1, Cap the sorc shield to a certain percentage around the sames as the heals from GDB and BoL,
2, Make the shield so you can't cast until the previous one has fully ran out and if you do you waste magicka on the cast,

any other ideas put them in the post to make this a more constructive thread and they may actually do something.

This could be ok, if you also made it so GDB also had such a CD, so as long as the regen was still in effect, if you recast GDB before that time, it did nothing for you and still cost mana. No?

Soulac wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

It's pretty balanced actually.
If a Sorcerer lose his Shield he's just a free kill and to get a strong Shield he need a high Magicka pool, so he'll have quite low Health.
As Melee NB I rarely got any problems against sorcerers, no matter how huge their shields are.
I'm as squishy as they're if I fail with dodge.

Deal with it and go to the real PvP

Deal with it as in re-roll to Stamina after finding out you cannot get *** done with a Magicka Nightblade?

Magicka build still works great, look at dennegor or neithi. It just doesn't fit my playstyle anymore, so.. Deal with it

Also take some tips from Ayeline, a fellow AD, shes rips stamina nbs up, atleast every fight ive seen her have with those builds.. (shes mag nb)

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

See I'd say yes they are too much if every class had a self heal like GDB or BoL etc but since they don't I think shields are just fine atm as they are.

Its the damage shields on sorcs that ppl are complaining about... not the shields in general

then yes I think the dmg shield in the sorc tree can create unfair advantage as now shields are recastable even before the previous shield has ended, do I think the shield on sorcs is needed due to lack of a heal in the sorc trees the answer is yes, do I think the shield is too large the answer is yes.

things zos could to make things better,
1, Cap the sorc shield to a certain percentage around the sames as the heals from GDB and BoL,
2, Make the shield so you can't cast until the previous one has fully ran out and if you do you waste magicka on the cast,

any other ideas put them in the post to make this a more constructive thread and they may actually do something.

This could be ok, if you also made it so GDB also had such a CD, so as long as the regen was still in effect, if you recast GDB before that time, it did nothing for you and still cost mana. No?

Technically gdb gets more inefficient the higher your health gets

True, but....who wants to heal if youre practicly full health?

So any build on any class should be able to counter sorcs... I can think of at least 1 build for each class that kill a kiting shield stacking sorc... If you want one build to be able to fight everyone else no matter what their respective builds/classes are. That is what we call OP.

Shields dont have dmg mitigation through block or armor. If your attack hits for 15k. The shield will lose the full 15k. If you have 30k hp and are blocking in full heavy armor... The attack wont hit for 15k..

Shields do not prevent stuns. Block does.

Bolt escape requires massive resources. Doing it effectively to get away from crit rushers requires real life skill. Dont believe me? Play a sorc...

Sorcs do single target burst dmg and most attacks can be reflected. Also by s&b skills. Bows cannot be reflected by s&b.

Lastly: if you are alone --> dont chase the f'ing sorc... It is a kiting class/build for a reason. Either you drop right ontop of a kiter or you run away. Don't chase kiters. That is what they want you to do!

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I've seem some pretty damn skillful melee players, some of them I consider more skilled than myself .

That said, I don't see any of those people in here complaining about damage shields.

That should tell you something.

Because most people who use something which is effective for them won't come here to complain about it, unlike me and few exceptions. I do stack shields and I think that it is ridiculously overpowered just like dodge rolling is for stamina users. It is way too hard to kill someone who stack shield or is spec to roll dodge 20times in a row and the thing is, they can still deal high dps. This is a problem and it will get even worse as people accumulate champion points.

Stacking shields for me is absolutely necessary because damage is off the charts right now. Until they nerf damage across the board further, any additional reduction to damage shields in any way shape or form would absolutely wreck sorcs. They'd have to double the armor provided by Light armor right now.

Your under the impression that damage shields are OP probably because you're wearing medium or heavy armor and already have an extremely tank class. Bolt escape doesn't really give us much survivability when you have people that can run about as fast as us while shooting arrows from 50 freaking yards away

I used to be damn near unkillable by 3 people in 1.5 with shield stacking, in 1.6 even though I'm fully specialized into maxing my damage shields I die literally 10 times more than I ever have.

People saying I need to put more points into health or better armor are wrong. I'm wearing 2 reinforced heavy pieces and a reinforced shield with 12,000 armor. It doesn't matter, under the right circumstances I get instagibbed regardless of having shields active or not.

I'm not defending damage shields because I want to be "OP", I'm defending them because if they become any less powerful my deaths are going to skyrocket even further.

And on the champion point scaling, damage scales far higher and faster than the growth of damage shields so the more champion points people get, the less power damage shields become.

There is so much BS in this post i don't know where to start... you completely contradict yourself in another thread. Im not even commenting in these threads anymore... i will just wait for them to nerf it as its going to happen and we all know why... it needs it. Not massively but ffs really? Recastable shields that stack over 40k lets do the math here say even 20k HP thats now a 60k Hp pool recastable in light armor (your 2whole pieces of heavy mean ***) thats more than any tank in the game and deal stupid amounts of damage. this is getting to be a joke. I get your defending against a nerf but cmon already clearly you can see it needs even a minor adjustment here.

DK SCRUB OUT

You don't know where to start because you'd be wrong.

I'm working on the video. You'll see it from my side soon. Recastable 40K shields? lol. I get a recastable 14K shields you mean. If they're hitting my health I'm already dead. I have 16K HPs. The big difference is I'm a skilled player. The nerfs you're crying for are going to completely wreck the other 95%+ sorcs out there who don't know how to squeeze every drop of utility and survivability out of their class and build.

Do you know who my easiest kills are right now? Templars, and then Sorcs, Nightblades, and DKs. I 2 shot most sorcs I go up against and the only thing that ever saves them are those who are running ball of lightning and know how to use it properly (which is pretty rare still).

So your saying your shields don't stack almost 40k? Or did you need me to copy paste it from the other thread where you stated that?
Your also saying they should leave it as is because 95% of sorcs dont know how to play? Thats not a reason.
Having a larger hp pool than any tank and restackable shields to 40k leaving a hp pool of say conservatively 50-60k is ok while hitting overload light attack for 14k?

As far as if they are hitting your health you are dead... thats your choice to play with no hp and welcome to the rest of the ppl who dont play a shield stacking build.

I don't even know what to say to this

It is possible to have far more than 40K in shields you could probably get up to a 65K stack using ever shield ability in the game at their maximum potential. The key word that you're using is "recastable". Recastable shields I have 14K (against physical) which as I said is 80% of the game right now. We've already went over that most of the good sorcs aren't running with harness/dampen anyways. Yes if you're knocked below 30% health and not outright killed you can cast a single healing ward for 16K. You can also cast a hardened was for 10K. In practice it is never like that and it is rare that you drop that low in health and survive.

It seems you're being intentionally dense or obtuse in order to further your argument.

Yes you must be right... i am the only one that sees an issue with this... we are all stupid and Ezareth is enlightening us... give me a break. You think 15 threads on the same topic and something might not need a small adjustment? Im not saying take shields away im saying HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT SEE SOME ADJUSTMENTS ARE NEEDED?

Your one of the best sorcs in the game i know that and have seen it... but cmon now

DK SCRUB OUT

15 threads by the same people who aren't looking at things with an open mind, they just have tunnel vision on one thing instead of the big picture.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Damage shields aren't the issue, nor is it sorcs being "overpowered". The issue is resource regeneration right now is insane. Of course sorcs who are taking advantage of this will feel super powerful to those who aren't....as they should be when you think about it. Do you realize how me having virtually unlimited magicka is not a sorc problem? It is the same thing for people with unlimited stamina....and it's only going to get worse until they address it.

I was pointing this out in Beta along with other people. The first thing they need to do is nerf the Champion system so that it is all *additive* instead of multiplicative. Everything is multiplicative as its own modifier right now and its grossly easy to exploit that.

Bastion (damage shield increaser) is multiplicative with other shield increasing variables.
Regeneration is multiplicative with other sources of increased regeneration.

I haven't tested all of the damage increasing champion points to see if they are additive or multiplicative but I'm assuming they are multiplicative as well.

Removing soft caps exposed a lot of flaws in the resource management of this game and those flaws are very easy to exploit. They should have rebalanced everything when they removed the softcaps but they just multiplied everything by 10 instead.

i can agree with that.

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I've seem some pretty damn skillful melee players, some of them I consider more skilled than myself .

That said, I don't see any of those people in here complaining about damage shields.

That should tell you something.

Because most people who use something which is effective for them won't come here to complain about it, unlike me and few exceptions. I do stack shields and I think that it is ridiculously overpowered just like dodge rolling is for stamina users. It is way too hard to kill someone who stack shield or is spec to roll dodge 20times in a row and the thing is, they can still deal high dps. This is a problem and it will get even worse as people accumulate champion points.

Stacking shields for me is absolutely necessary because damage is off the charts right now. Until they nerf damage across the board further, any additional reduction to damage shields in any way shape or form would absolutely wreck sorcs. They'd have to double the armor provided by Light armor right now.

Your under the impression that damage shields are OP probably because you're wearing medium or heavy armor and already have an extremely tank class. Bolt escape doesn't really give us much survivability when you have people that can run about as fast as us while shooting arrows from 50 freaking yards away

I used to be damn near unkillable by 3 people in 1.5 with shield stacking, in 1.6 even though I'm fully specialized into maxing my damage shields I die literally 10 times more than I ever have.

People saying I need to put more points into health or better armor are wrong. I'm wearing 2 reinforced heavy pieces and a reinforced shield with 12,000 armor. It doesn't matter, under the right circumstances I get instagibbed regardless of having shields active or not.

I'm not defending damage shields because I want to be "OP", I'm defending them because if they become any less powerful my deaths are going to skyrocket even further.

And on the champion point scaling, damage scales far higher and faster than the growth of damage shields so the more champion points people get, the less power damage shields become.

There is so much BS in this post i don't know where to start... you completely contradict yourself in another thread. Im not even commenting in these threads anymore... i will just wait for them to nerf it as its going to happen and we all know why... it needs it. Not massively but ffs really? Recastable shields that stack over 40k lets do the math here say even 20k HP thats now a 60k Hp pool recastable in light armor (your 2whole pieces of heavy mean ***) thats more than any tank in the game and deal stupid amounts of damage. this is getting to be a joke. I get your defending against a nerf but cmon already clearly you can see it needs even a minor adjustment here.

DK SCRUB OUT

It is NOT a 60k hp pool. Shields stack but dmg on a shield cant be mitigated. You would get more effective hitpoints with: 30k hp, full heavy +blocking. There is a difference between absolute hitpoints and effective hitpoints. If shield stacking was better then HA+massive hp+block you would see sorcs on the front line tanking *** while chilling and laughing (1.5). This is not the case because the effective hitpoints (ehp) is not the bloody same.

The combo of shield stacking and bolt escape is strong in 1v1, small 1vx (1v4 for example). Doing so requires massive resources and thus careful resource management. Doing high burst dmg in 2 seconds and jumping out is the kiters way of life. If you can't break the tank in that time. The kiter doesn't win. Then it becomes a war of who runs out of resources first. So manage your resources well. Or prove the masses right that dk's never needed to learn how to play because of flappy wings. Wings have been clipped mate. THAT was stupidly op.

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I've seem some pretty damn skillful melee players, some of them I consider more skilled than myself .

That said, I don't see any of those people in here complaining about damage shields.

That should tell you something.

Because most people who use something which is effective for them won't come here to complain about it, unlike me and few exceptions. I do stack shields and I think that it is ridiculously overpowered just like dodge rolling is for stamina users. It is way too hard to kill someone who stack shield or is spec to roll dodge 20times in a row and the thing is, they can still deal high dps. This is a problem and it will get even worse as people accumulate champion points.

Stacking shields for me is absolutely necessary because damage is off the charts right now. Until they nerf damage across the board further, any additional reduction to damage shields in any way shape or form would absolutely wreck sorcs. They'd have to double the armor provided by Light armor right now.

Your under the impression that damage shields are OP probably because you're wearing medium or heavy armor and already have an extremely tank class. Bolt escape doesn't really give us much survivability when you have people that can run about as fast as us while shooting arrows from 50 freaking yards away

I used to be damn near unkillable by 3 people in 1.5 with shield stacking, in 1.6 even though I'm fully specialized into maxing my damage shields I die literally 10 times more than I ever have.

People saying I need to put more points into health or better armor are wrong. I'm wearing 2 reinforced heavy pieces and a reinforced shield with 12,000 armor. It doesn't matter, under the right circumstances I get instagibbed regardless of having shields active or not.

I'm not defending damage shields because I want to be "OP", I'm defending them because if they become any less powerful my deaths are going to skyrocket even further.

And on the champion point scaling, damage scales far higher and faster than the growth of damage shields so the more champion points people get, the less power damage shields become.

Correction : Stacking shields for you is absolutely necessary because you spend everything in ressources management. You cannot have everything man. You gotta find the just middle. The game wasn't designed so you could have unlimited magicka, be able to deal high damage and be tanky all at the same time.

I know for a fact that you focus alot on magicka recovery and max magicka. The point of doing that should penalize you somewhere. The fact that your shields are essential to your survivability is because you don't wear any piece of heavy armor and because you haven't spent any points in health and/or spell resistance and/or % of armor increased while wearing light armor and other useful perks in the champion point system, I presume. Can't have it all

In other words, I don't think that shields should be the only defensive part of a build you need to focus on to keep you alive forever. You should have to invest on other things to assure your survivability against all builds in the game and someone who spec to be a high burst dps build should be able to crush someone who focus on ressources management unless you play it wise and kite the guy until he runs out of ressources. Gotta play your cards right But I'm sure you got my point.

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

See I'd say yes they are too much if every class had a self heal like GDB or BoL etc but since they don't I think shields are just fine atm as they are.

Its the damage shields on sorcs that ppl are complaining about... not the shields in general

then yes I think the dmg shield in the sorc tree can create unfair advantage as now shields are recastable even before the previous shield has ended, do I think the shield on sorcs is needed due to lack of a heal in the sorc trees the answer is yes, do I think the shield is too large the answer is yes.

things zos could to make things better,
1, Cap the sorc shield to a certain percentage around the sames as the heals from GDB and BoL,
2, Make the shield so you can't cast until the previous one has fully ran out and if you do you waste magicka on the cast,

any other ideas put them in the post to make this a more constructive thread and they may actually do something.

okey lets recap, a avarage dk tank pvp has about? 30k hp? i think so, oke GDB heals you for 30% of lost, so that is around 10k with passive and ingnieus shield on. the sorc ward= 10k if they are good. usualy 8k, so done! that is already in the game enjoy!

technohic wrote: »

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

See I'd say yes they are too much if every class had a self heal like GDB or BoL etc but since they don't I think shields are just fine atm as they are.

Its the damage shields on sorcs that ppl are complaining about... not the shields in general

then yes I think the dmg shield in the sorc tree can create unfair advantage as now shields are recastable even before the previous shield has ended, do I think the shield on sorcs is needed due to lack of a heal in the sorc trees the answer is yes, do I think the shield is too large the answer is yes.

things zos could to make things better,
1, Cap the sorc shield to a certain percentage around the sames as the heals from GDB and BoL,
2, Make the shield so you can't cast until the previous one has fully ran out and if you do you waste magicka on the cast,

any other ideas put them in the post to make this a more constructive thread and they may actually do something.

okey lets recap, a avarage dk tank pvp has about? 30k hp? i think so, oke GDB heals you for 30% of lost, so that is around 10k with passive and ingnieus shield on. the sorc ward= 10k if they are good. usualy 8k, so done! that is already in the game enjoy!

Perfect. Now add about 700 magicka cost to hardened ward then at least DKs and Sorcs can feel even there.

wel fair enough, i dont mind at all if they up the costs, if that makes the skill more balanced, but messing with the shield amounts is just gonna unbalance all shields again, and then all classes wil be qq again. the problem here is not the size of the shield, its just that so many people who tank are used to having magicka en stacking shields, but now want ot use heavy armor and stamina, and wel yeah... you have to pick a option, and find a defence in it. and if your build lacks defencive options, then you are making a mistake, i as a sorc has been killed quick and slow by any class. and i kill quick and slow any class also, i never know what happens, 1 mistake 1 die, 1 mistake they die. its not about class or shields, its about skill of the player. and his enemy. dodge roll, shieldstack, wings, BoL, GDB, etc etc, pick your posion. and all people winning about overcharge, yeah its called a ultimate, it is supose to hurt... its not like your Standard of might, or nova dont do damage? drop it on any sorc, and let a friend press the synergy, and i bet his shields are down. its all about outsmarting your enemy, but ofc ones every while you wil run in to that 1 persone whos build you cant beet, thats the game. we all die. we all kill. but you ofc cant faceroll any enemy the same way. and anybody can lose if there is that 1 archer behind hte tree that is spamming arrows at you, as the dk is whipping you. the reason most magicka classes stack shield, is becasue after blocking 2 attacks, there out of stamina, and using inmovible is quite expensive if you are not a stamina build, so its pick and choose, dont like the way you toon handles? cant kill that pesky shield stacking sorc? think, theory craft, and find a way. these people are dying trust me. everybody is... ( fire treb, fire treb, fire treb) and iam sure everybody has players he walk over, and other players that walk over them. and if you dont have good deference's, get a good heal? look at templars, they can just out heal most stuff without having to cast shield? are we now calling that heal op? any class can do anykind of gameplay, its a elderscroll game, get used to it. any class has stamina and magicka options, so look it true, read the patch notes, and do some research. and iam sure you will find a way.. "life.... always... finds a way" oooh... and for those peopel chassing sorcs, that is what they want, to remove 1 player from the battle to lure him away, kill him, and go pick up another one. you are obviously running in to a ambush most of the time... and even then, i see people get out of that ambush triumphant, and killing the sorc plus his friends. its all about skill and knowing your limits, and most of the time, for all my dk friends, if you see a sorc overloading you, put up you wings, and it wil stop, or he wil destroy his own shields.. just a piece of advice^^ now go think and have fun guys, and stop bashing sorcs because you cant faceroll over 30 enemies anymore before you die. if you get 1 kill before you die, that, means balance. eye for a eye. tooth for a tooth, kill for a kill.

^^

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

derpsticks wrote: »

I was just in a small fight. I lost but when I looked at the CLS log, I was amazed to find that 39,141 damage had been absorbed by a single player.

This is ridiculous.

Lol. Only 39k and you're complaining? While perma dodge-rolling is a thing, why are we even talking about absorption shields?

How much damage did Ez avoid while dodge rolling through mobs for over 5 mins? It must be at least 1m or maybe 2m HP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1AKU5kM5Dk

It's like scissors asking for nerfs to papers XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsXEbqS7cpE

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

derpsticks wrote: »

I was just in a small fight. I lost but when I looked at the CLS log, I was amazed to find that 39,141 damage had been absorbed by a single player.

This is ridiculous.

Lol. Only 39k and you're complaining? While perma dodge-rolling is a thing, why are we even talking about absorption shields?

How much damage did Ez avoid while dodge rolling through mobs for over 5 mins? It must be at least 1m or maybe 2m HP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1AKU5kM5Dk

It's like scissors asking for nerfs to papers XD

There is a thread about dodge rolling here: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160842/dodge-roll-needs-nerf/p1

derpsticks wrote: »

There is a thread about dodge rolling here: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160842/dodge-roll-needs-nerf/p1

My point, that went over your head, was that the two issues are related. Because resource management has become too easy in 1.6 and thus people can spam dodge, shields .....whatever keeps them alive.

What's your point?