Are damage shields still too much?

hamon

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

sicc wrote: »

Would you like them to just lie down and die for you? You know anyone can use the light armor damage shield. Damage shields aren't much different then the endless dodge rolling.

Every class has ways to stay alive if they're a decent player. Maybe go watch some YouTube videos on how to play your chosen class.

To be fair, you can't cast spells while dodge rolling.

um yes you can, lol. you can dodge weave attacks, shields, heals, you name it. its like weaving with weapon attacks except with dodge rolls. the roll negates all damage taken the whole time. follow that up with another roll and guess what, no one can hit your ass with most abilities in the game. gg.

You land a big hit on a stamina build....he starts dodge-casting Vigor. You curse out loud.

ye cos every stam user is at assault/support 10, that doesnt take like maybe 1000 hours of pvp to get on your bar.......

Maulkin

hamon wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

sicc wrote: »

Would you like them to just lie down and die for you? You know anyone can use the light armor damage shield. Damage shields aren't much different then the endless dodge rolling.

Every class has ways to stay alive if they're a decent player. Maybe go watch some YouTube videos on how to play your chosen class.

To be fair, you can't cast spells while dodge rolling.

um yes you can, lol. you can dodge weave attacks, shields, heals, you name it. its like weaving with weapon attacks except with dodge rolls. the roll negates all damage taken the whole time. follow that up with another roll and guess what, no one can hit your ass with most abilities in the game. gg.

You land a big hit on a stamina build....he starts dodge-casting Vigor. You curse out loud.

ye cos every stam user is at assault/support 10, that doesnt take like maybe 1000 hours of pvp to get on your bar.......

A surprising number are, but that's besides the point. You can dodge cast anything, including heals. That was the point. For the record, I've already said in the past that Vigor should be easier to acquire...

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment of the OP especially around Vigor. Magicka Detonation, I have no issue with being AW10 as you wouldn't want that thing spammed by just everyone.

But without Vigor stamina builds are pigeonholed into playing 2H to get some heals from Momentum. Magicka builds can pick up a resto staff, but for stamina builds with low max magicka/ spell dmg the return is minuscule, so they can't do that.

I think Vigor should be AW 6, to encourage people to delve into PvP but not have to spend months to get such a core skill, thus discouraging them from doing that altogether. Vigor is not like Combat Frenzy, which is very nice but not essential. It is a pretty important skill for stam builds.

derpsticks

This was never meant to be a sorc nerf thread but it sure got turned into one. I just think damage shields shouldn't absorb all the damage they should maybe absorb 80% and let the rest be mitigated normally.

Edit: accidentally a word.

Joy_Division

derpsticks wrote: »

This was never meant to be a sorc nerf thread but it sure got turned into one. I just think damage shields should absorb all the damage they should maybe aborb 80% and let the rest be mitigated normally.

Well, when you said the situation with damage shields is "ridiculous," how else did you expect people to interpret your OP?

derpsticks

By not jumping to the conclusion that I meant to nerf sorc shields when I just happened to be fighting a sorc.

cozmon3c_ESO

Rook_Master wrote: »

The problem is that Blazing shield is the only class skill that doesn't scale off Magicka.

subtomik killed me the other day with this shield so i dont really think its all that bad, he coupled it with the jesus beam and i fell over dead asking myself wtf just happened (probably putting it in my next video). he negated all my burst damage over and over again because its so visual and delayed that you can just pop a sun shield and thats it, continue on your merri way like i never even hit you. if you see blazing shield as not as good then you are not playing templar right.

Davadin

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

Makkir

Ezareth wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Let's all remember that shields are the only point of defense for light armor right now and not everyone plays a sorc.

Yes I'm finding it pretty difficult to stay up as it is in some Vet dungeon runs while AoEing unless my healer is just spamming me with heals. Even animation cancelling my hardened ward (With full shield value) constantly isn't enough to keep mobs from ripping through my shields as fast as I can cast them.

I'm usually casting Hardened Ward, Hardened Ward, Impulse, Hardened ward, impulse etc. It's ridiculous.

If shields get nerfed further you're going to open the pits of hell and every carebear sorc in the game right now will flood these forums and rend people limb from limb.

@Ezareth you're doing it wrong homey. Get that impulse off your Carebear bar (PvE)

I improved my game in dungeons following this "ignition" guide.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158866/ignition-sorcerer-build-for-eso-2-0#latest

Maulkin

Davadin wrote: »

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

How about being able to execute skills while dodging?

frozywozy

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I'm gonna mention again my solution regarding shield stacking.

First of, dodge rolling / blocking / sprinting / bashing / cc breaking should use ressources from a different bar than stamina.

Stamina users should get abilities from either medium armor, heavy armor, one-hand shield, two-handed, dual wield, that give the same proportional benefits as a damage shield from magicka users. For example it would be great to have more abilities to increase evasion rating such as the one from the medium armor tree. Or more abilities to increase armor / spell resistances such as hardened armor for dragonknights. Finally, it would be nice to add abilities to also increase block rating. All of these abilities should give the same benefit overall as stacking shields on top of the other and should cost stamina.

Medium armor - Evasion skill gives you 20% dodge chance, you want more get the hist bark set.
Heavy armor - Imovable gives you your added armor and spell resist
Roll dodge is your active shield to avoid most damage in the game.
defensive posture from 1h and shield gives you more block mitigation from having it on your bar, no need to use it.

seriously there needs to be a dum dum lolipop check before people post in these forums, lols.

So what you're saying here is that using Evasion + Immovable + Defensive posture gives the same benefits as stacking Igneous Shield + Hardened Armor + Dampen Magic + Healing Ward that can boost my hps from 21k to 46k?

Loled.

just roll dodge you get all those benefits and can cast them at the same time as a stamina build.

If you are still talking about roll dodge, you should re-read my main post. It doesn't make any sense.

maybe you need to learn how powerful roll dodge really is, log into your tune and roll dodge and see how much longer you survive. a roll dodge negates 75% of all sorc direct damage. exception of curse. you can roll the rest, please learn to use roll dodge effectively and stop calling for nerfs on shields because you dont know how to burst properly.

The reason why I'm asking to put roll dodge on a difference ressource bar is the fact that people can get up to 26k stamina and roll dodge forever without any problem. Nightblades abuse this mechanic by including stealth in between each roll making it almost impossible to target them unless you press tab every second.

This is poor sportsmanship and in my opinion, stamina classes should have abilities to relay on, not dodge roll. You cannot even cast an ability while you dodge roll unlike shield stackers who can have an hp bonus pool of 25k+ for over 12 seconds.

Xsorus

25k Stamina will not give you perma roll dodge...

You need 4k Stamina Recovery. Which only Bosmer Nightblades can achieve right now.

Ezareth

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

The problem is that Blazing shield is the only class skill that doesn't scale off Magicka.

subtomik killed me the other day with this shield so i dont really think its all that bad, he coupled it with the jesus beam and i fell over dead asking myself wtf just happened (probably putting it in my next video). he negated all my burst damage over and over again because its so visual and delayed that you can just pop a sun shield and thats it, continue on your merri way like i never even hit you. if you see blazing shield as not as good then you are not playing templar right.

Blazing shield does a crapload of damage agreed. It rips through my shields.

That said I honestly haven't found an "in your face" templar good enough to give me a big challenge in 1.6. Power Overload just destroys templar so badly and I just break free of eclipse if they have that slotted. I guess if they were spamming defensive posture in addition to exclipse I'd have problems but Mine field + entropy + hardened ward spam with overload has always resulted in a dead templar for me. Some Boethia Scythe templar kept trying to gank me in a cyrodiil delve yesterday and didn't give up until his 7th or 8th death. I give him an A for effort though.

Makkir wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Let's all remember that shields are the only point of defense for light armor right now and not everyone plays a sorc.

Yes I'm finding it pretty difficult to stay up as it is in some Vet dungeon runs while AoEing unless my healer is just spamming me with heals. Even animation cancelling my hardened ward (With full shield value) constantly isn't enough to keep mobs from ripping through my shields as fast as I can cast them.

I'm usually casting Hardened Ward, Hardened Ward, Impulse, Hardened ward, impulse etc. It's ridiculous.

If shields get nerfed further you're going to open the pits of hell and every carebear sorc in the game right now will flood these forums and rend people limb from limb.

@Ezareth you're doing it wrong homey. Get that impulse off your Carebear bar (PvE)

I improved my game in dungeons following this "ignition" guide.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158866/ignition-sorcerer-build-for-eso-2-0#latest

@makkir
I run Force pulse and liquid lightning as well but my real point was I can barely survive the damage I take while spamming shields. I was clearing the first couple of packs in Hel Ra Citadel the other night with mine spam liquid lightning and caltrops but man if more than 2 archers shot at me at once I was instagibbed.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

How about being able to execute skills while dodging?

Forget being able to execute skills while dodging.

How about being able to execute skills *while* Heavy Attacking?

Grim13

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Another nerf sorc thread? How many will we have this week?

Meanwhile, people have no problems one and two shotting me.

There's a difference... and it's a crucial one...

As a bow ***, myself, I've spec'd heavily into being able to burst from stealth and thus I have very little defensive capability.

A Sorc who has spec'd into having the highest dmg shield capacity possible ALSO has a very high level of dps.

There's no trade off for a shield stacking Sorc like there is for the few stam builds capable of 1-2 shotting you.

technohic

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

The problem is that Blazing shield is the only class skill that doesn't scale off Magicka.

subtomik killed me the other day with this shield so i dont really think its all that bad, he coupled it with the jesus beam and i fell over dead asking myself wtf just happened (probably putting it in my next video). he negated all my burst damage over and over again because its so visual and delayed that you can just pop a sun shield and thats it, continue on your merri way like i never even hit you. if you see blazing shield as not as good then you are not playing templar right.

So 30k hitpoints would be a 7650 hit Blazing shield; if he hit you with it on cast 7956; so the most it could do is if it is popped which would be 50% of 7956 so 3978; and that killed you? Maybe high end RD when you were low health but it should have tickled if it was just from full health; and especially since he would have to have a lot of health stacked.

I'm not sure how that would work. Would love to see a screenshot of a death recap of Blazing Shield actually killing someone outside of incidental damage on a target who was going to die anyway.

Xsorus

People have a problem with the fact that Sorcs in general can be both high dps and high defense character at the same time.

If I fight a Heavy Armor user right now..He's not ripping me with a ton of DPS usually...he's harder to kill then a Medium Armor user but he's still not a huge DPS guy.

Medium Armor users die in 1 or 2 hits all the time..Like its a joke how fast I kill other Medium Armor users..

Shield stacking sorcs on the other hand...are the hardest thing in the game to kill...while having amazing dps.

i'm sorry you sorcs disagree with this...But that's just how it is...

Ezareth

frozywozy wrote: »

The reason why I'm asking to put roll dodge on a difference ressource bar is the fact that people can get up to 26k stamina and roll dodge forever without any problem. Nightblades abuse this mechanic by including stealth in between each roll making it almost impossible to target them unless you press tab every second.

This is poor sportsmanship and in my opinion, stamina classes should have abilities to relay on, not dodge roll. You cannot even cast an ability while you dodge roll unlike shield stackers who can have an hp bonus pool of 25k+ for over 12 seconds.

I think the way they should fix the unlimited dodge roll is by removing dodge roll from the stamina cost reduction enchant. Set bonuses and passives and champion passives that reduce the cost of Stamina abilities are seperate, why is dodge rolling lumped in with that enchant? It makes it far more powerful than the magicka version of the enchant.

Also please don't refer to shield stackers as having a bonus HP pool. Shields are nothing like hitpoints. You get some massive bonuses to damage done to hitpoints as well as bonuses when your hitpoints are reduced. The only benefit of shields is their ability to be crit, and that is offset by the bleed effect of the ability that pierces a shield.

Soulac

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

As Stamina NB..
please nerf!

agree

i get killed by stamina nightblades the most out of any class, please l2p.

Should we wield a sarcasm sign, especially for u?

Cinnamon_Spider

Grim13 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Another nerf sorc thread? How many will we have this week?

Meanwhile, people have no problems one and two shotting me.

There's a difference... and it's a crucial one...

As a bow ***, myself, I've spec'd heavily into being able to burst from stealth and thus I have very little defensive capability.

A Sorc who has spec'd into having the highest dmg shield capacity possible ALSO has a very high level of dps.

There's no trade off for a shield stacking Sorc like there is for the few stam builds capable of 1-2 shotting you.

I don't think you understand how hard a sorc that put everything into magic has to work to stay alive. And unlike the stealthing bow user, we are not just hiding on the sides. We are flashy. You can't miss us.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Ezareth wrote: »

So you tried to gank someone, failed to kill them because they used an anti ganking set, then they cast healing ward which received a 300% bonus because he was below 30% health (16K shield) which you burned through, then he cast hardened ward and another healing ward.

I fail to see the problem here.

He could have absorbed 100K in shields and it wouldn't mean anything. I did between half a million to a million damage to a DK in my last PvP video before he died...does that mean DKs are too powerful? No, it means I succeeded in killing him before he killed me and nothing else.

Quoted for so much truth.

What @Ezareth didn't mention is the trade-offs of the Whitestrakes set. Other than the 5pc, the other bonuses aren't that helpful to a magicka based caster. When you run whitestrakes, you are essentially missing out on 510 spell damage that you would have gotten from other sets that are the current caster meta in order to have extra defense against the very ganker that tried to kill this guy.

Grim13 wrote: »

There's no trade off for a shield stacking Sorc like there is for the few stam builds capable of 1-2 shotting you.

NOT TRUE AT ALL. This game is all about trade-offs. The person in the picture traded 510 spell damage and a whole offensive weapon bar to run whitestrakes and resto staff to be very defensive. Effective tactic was effective.

Not to mention that almost every sorcerer is forced to run resto staff for survivability which is also a trade-off leading to less damage potential. I would love to run 2H/Bow like every other class can or double destro with a single target bar and an AOE bar but I can't because sorcs have no combat usable self heals unlike every other class.

Why is it that every damage shield "discussion" seems like a poorly veiled attempt to get one specific class based damage shield nerfed? Whitestrakes + healing ward took the brunt of the damage here and those two abilities are available to every class and have been very effective since the beginning of the game.

TL:DR: Just because stamina got a massive buff and you can gank ppl for over 20k damage with 3 button presses in a matter of seconds doesn't mean light armor wearers should be guaranteed AP.

Light Armor =/= glass cannon. A true glass cannon would have had a ton more offensive potential and would have been dead if caught off guard.

Xsorus

I'm not sure how good Whitestrakes is for a Sorc to be honest, they usually stack Magicka and have low health...you'd have to drop fairly low i imagine before it'd even kick in.

Germtrocity

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

People have a problem with the fact that Sorcs in general can be both high dps and high defense character at the same time.

If I fight a Heavy Armor user right now..He's not ripping me with a ton of DPS usually...he's harder to kill then a Medium Armor user but he's still not a huge DPS guy.

Medium Armor users die in 1 or 2 hits all the time..Like its a joke how fast I kill other Medium Armor users..

Shield stacking sorcs on the other hand...are the hardest thing in the game to kill...while having amazing dps.

i'm sorry you sorcs disagree with this...But that's just how it is...

That isn't how it is though. Stacking magicka only gives us higher shields. Spell damage is what gives actual burst and real damage. When you die to a sorcerer, you are dying to someone that is outsustaining you, or depending on the build, out bursting you.

I came across you and 2 other potatoes the other day and was evaluating your play through the fight (the other two one was a permablocker and the other was a NB that kept cloaking and trying to burst me) and I noticed quite a few L2P issues that I did even tell you about in whisper after, but I can give you some more lessons on the forums, if need be.

Also a screencap of the instance I am referring to:


My first point of reference actually is the amount of damage I was dishing out and then the damage taken and healed. (keep in mind that the NB and permablocker died very early on in the fight, maybe taking 50k of the damage away - and also not doing very much damage to me at all).

So this leaves us with maybe 240k damage done to you, Xsorus, while you were also running a 2h sword on your off bar and doing very significant damage to me. You tanked and healed through quite a bit of damage, roughly 240k damage - much of it being blocked damage as you would permablock for a long while then petrify and wrecking blow me. So if all the damage was unmitigated, that would be quite a large number.

A lot of the issue with shields is very much L2P. In my encounter with Xsorus and his 2 potatoes, there was an immense lack of CC on cooldown. And even with this being the case, I was still nearly out of stamina from roll dodging to avoid the high damage wrecking blows coming from Xsorus while attempting to keep the other two in check at the beginning. I was going around for extended periods of time in the fight with no CC immunity active (sometimes 15+ seconds of not being CCd) which gives me room to use my stamina pool for roll dodging, as I was doing.

But I am ranting and going off into stuff that should be elementary and basic for any player.

Moral of the story is L2P and shields are easy to get around.

jelliedsoup

Activating a skill is hardly skillful or clever and you slill get the benefit of being able to use dps.

Those nbs who spec for stam have nothing beyond invisibility pots or a failing cloak. Endless roll dodge is not an option unless you pump all points into stam regen but then cant dps.

Hell i was ambushed while in cloak yesterday.

Sorcs complain about being an open target without the shield? welome to the stam nb world.

Durham

sicc wrote: »

I don't understand one bit how spamming hardened ward is the problem. It's the endless magicka and regen from no caps that makes everything spammable. As a sorc that stacks magicka my damage is nowhere near what I've seen other classes do. I've never once one shot or even two shot anyone ever.I have to spam shields, use cc between immunities and hope to have better resource management than my opponent to win.

Problem is not most Sorcs... its the few that are so good at playing the toon that turns the majority of sentiment against the class... I have went up against these guys and they take so long to kill that most of the time others show up to kill me .. If they do get in trouble they simply bolt away.....by the way they will kill you if you do not reflect or have some type of shield to counter... I really do not like the idea of shield stacking but I also do not like the direction that Sorcs have taken....

Ezareth

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Activating a skill is hardly skillful or clever and you slill get the benefit of being able to use dps.

Those nbs who spec for stam have nothing beyond invisibility pots or a failing cloak. Endless roll dodge is not an option unless you pump all points into stam regen but then cant dps.

Hell i was ambushed while in cloak yesterday.

Sorcs complain about being an open target without the shield? welome to the stam nb world.

I have all my points dumped into magicka regen so I can shield stack and bolt escape, maybe if you guys want survivability you should have to do the same. I think the real glass cannons here are those Stealth NBs squeaking out every piece of damage they can muster at the expense of everything else.

Davadin

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

How about being able to execute skills while dodging?

*** imma start wrecking blow while rolling!!

u serious?

gonna try this tonight.



holy *** like seriously, bro.

technohic

Davadin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

How about being able to execute skills while dodging?

*** imma start wrecking blow while rolling!!

u serious?

gonna try this tonight.



holy *** like seriously, bro.

Not sure WB will work with that, but I know I could cast blazing shield and then roll before the animation completed. Along with other instant abilities.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

technohic wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

How about being able to execute skills while dodging?

*** imma start wrecking blow while rolling!!

u serious?

gonna try this tonight.



holy *** like seriously, bro.

Not sure WB will work with that, but I know I could cast blazing shield and then roll before the animation completed. Along with other instant abilities.

WB does work that like if you time it with dodge roll just right. It's called the wrecking ball aka Miley Cyrus build. Can't wait to see a bosmer NB make a video about it.

Davadin

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

forget damage shield.

how about able to execute skills while blocking?

How about being able to execute skills while dodging?

*** imma start wrecking blow while rolling!!

u serious?

gonna try this tonight.



holy *** like seriously, bro.

Not sure WB will work with that, but I know I could cast blazing shield and then roll before the animation completed. Along with other instant abilities.

WB does work that like if you time it with dodge roll just right. It's called the wrecking ball aka Miley Cyrus build. Can't wait to see a bosmer NB make a video about it.

u guys understand that if this works, and one makes a gear with stam regen, roll cost reduce, green pots, and other stuff...

...you can be a hybrid of Babe Ruth and Mohamad Ali?

practice time tonight!

jelliedsoup

Ezareth wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Activating a skill is hardly skillful or clever and you slill get the benefit of being able to use dps.

Those nbs who spec for stam have nothing beyond invisibility pots or a failing cloak. Endless roll dodge is not an option unless you pump all points into stam regen but then cant dps.

Hell i was ambushed while in cloak yesterday.

Sorcs complain about being an open target without the shield? welome to the stam nb world.

I have all my points dumped into magicka regen so I can shield stack and bolt escape, maybe if you guys want survivability you should have to do the same. I think the real glass cannons here are those Stealth NBs squeaking out every piece of damage they can muster at the expense of everything else.

There is no option here. We hit hard and fast, if this fails we try to hide.

The attrition battle is not one we're speced for. I realise the game wants this but it's very poor design from my perspective.

It could be a l2p issue. I'm talking about a load of reds Mr Hanks would be the prime example.

Vis

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its only a matter of time before its looked at.

That's what many of us said about GDB and look where we are now. You keep telling yourself that.