Are damage shields still too much?

ToRelax

Erock25 wrote: »

It is pretty infuriating with all these people who do not play Sorcs saying how they are invincible. Are there any Sorcs out there who say their total deaths have gone down since 1.6 came out? Serious question, because I know mine have not.

My deaths have gone down.

That is because in 1.5 I had to give up a huge portion of my solo survivability to gain maximum efficiency in group play, including Vampirism, Streak and no damage shields but Healing Ward.

Galalin

WRX wrote: »

I tried to keep reading this, but I just cant. The people in here crying are just ridiculous. Stamina users complaining that they can't kill burst people fast enough and that builds are less diverse? Is that real? Builds are infinitely more diverse than they used to be, and stamina has by far the highest DPS.

Shields are not hard to break through, especially with stam 2H builds. What I am hearing is a major issue with the attackers build.

If someone has a better build should they not be rewarded? Or should we all just have the exact same stats, come on now. You could do something very similar if you chose.

Instead you want to be some sneaky ninja that crawls around in the darkness, or holds RMB and wonders why they cant kill anyone. Pick and choose, everyone has their counter.

Im not saying i cant kill them... im saying that its an issue with me that damage is mitigated before it applies to the valve of the shield. Also the fact it acts like purge removing all dots and dot damage not applying as damage to the shield. Add the fact they can be stackable to over 40k in the blink of an eye. This essentially allows sorcs to forget about armor and health and concentrate on dps since some damage shields scale off thier damage pool... im not saying they need to take shields away or not make them stack or lengthen the cast times... i would however like to see it count crit damage and dots... and possibly scale of health not magicka.

DK SCRUB OUT

Snit

Galalin wrote: »

Add the fact they can be stackable to over 40k in the blink of an eye

It's stuff like this that makes everything you post questionable. You're all about describing the theoretically possible as some kind of norm. It isn't the norm.

A 40k Hardened Ward would require over 100,000 base magicka. So, you're clearly talking about stacking Hardened, Annulment and Healing Ward. Great. The first one is a real shield. The second one only applies to magicka damage, in an environment where the biggest hitters are now physical. Healing Ward is a trivial shield unless cast while you're in execute range. It's used for the heal, not as a shield.

So, it's possible to exceed 40k shields. It's not possible to do that in the blink of an eye, unless it takes you three seconds to blink. And it's not something many people are doing, as it's ineffective. If you're physical damage, you're almost certainly facing one shield on a sorc. Assuming he is in all legendary V14 gear and has some CP in Bastion, it'll be in the 9 - 13k range. That's not trivial. But it's not 40k, either.

I know you're just stirring the pot -- you've posted that is your purpose. Some of us are trying to have a more serious conversation about the issue. Spreading misinformation is not constructive.

Galalin

Snit wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Add the fact they can be stackable to over 40k in the blink of an eye

It's stuff like this that makes everything you post questionable. You're all about describing the theoretically possible as some kind of norm. It isn't the norm.

A 40k Hardened Ward would require over 100,000 base magicka. So, you're clearly talking about stacking Hardened, Annulment and Healing Ward. Great. The first one is a real shield. The second one only applies to magicka damage, in an environment where the biggest hitters are now physical. Healing Ward is a trivial shield unless cast while you're in execute range. It's used for the heal, not as a shield.

So, it's possible to exceed 40k shields. It's not possible to do that in the blink of an eye, unless it takes you three seconds to blink. And it's not something many people are doing, as it's ineffective. If you're physical damage, you're almost certainly facing one shield on a sorc. Assuming he is in all legendary V14 gear and has some CP in Bastion, it'll be in the 9 - 13k range. That's not trivial. But it's not 40k, either.

I know you're just stirring the pot -- you've posted that is your purpose. Some of us are trying to have a more serious conversation about the issue. Spreading misinformation is not constructive.

What is the misinformation part here? Ppl use animation canceling all the time when casting shields... or did you not know that? Im not going to sift through a bunch of posts to find it as I'm at work but maybe i will after where Ezareth states he stacks 38k shields...and others over 40k not to mention my guild mates who do.

I also noticed you didn't disagree with the rest of my post and since your trying to pick it apart i will assume you agree with the rest of it?

DK SCRUB OUT

Snit

Galalin wrote: »

I also noticed you didn't disagree with the rest of my post and since your trying to pick it apart i will assume you agree with the rest of it?

DK SCRUB OUT

I disagree with everything you say on principle, as I don't think you're making an attempt at honest debate. You can probably spend four hours in Cyrodiil and not find two sorcs who "stack 40k shields in the blink of an eye." And I'm sure you know this.

I think you're just here to "stir the pot." Your words.

Galalin

Snit wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

I also noticed you didn't disagree with the rest of my post and since your trying to pick it apart i will assume you agree with the rest of it?

DK SCRUB OUT

I disagree with everything you say on principle, as I don't think you're making an attempt at honest debate. You can probably spend four hours in Cyrodiil and not find two sorcs who "stack 40k shields in the blink of an eye." And I'm sure you know this.

I think you're just here to "stir the pot." Your words.

You can disgree with everything i say on principle all you want. Facts are facts no matter what the intentions.... as far as 2 sorcs in cyrodiil doing it ....don't make me laugh they can and are... also just the fact it can be done makes it completely relevant.... so please stop your misinformation... its very clear you are just disagreeing to disagree instead of looking at facts.

DK SCRUB OUT

WRX

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Galalin

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

Xsorus

Galalin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

How are you guys breaking 4k weapon damage....I'm super weapon damage stacked and i can hit almost 3.5k

WRX

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

How are you guys breaking 4k weapon damage....I'm super weapon damage stacked and i can hit almost 3.5k

I play with people that hit over 4800. Bats hitting for 6k per tick and well over 10k steel tornado.

You are really lucky if you get over 2500 spell dmg, and even then it scales at a slower rate.

Xsorus

WRX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

How are you guys breaking 4k weapon damage....I'm super weapon damage stacked and i can hit almost 3.5k

I play with people that hit over 4800. Bats hitting for 6k per tick and well over 10k steel tornado.

You are really lucky if you get over 2500 spell dmg, and even then it scales at a slower rate.

How on earth are they getting 4800 weapon damage?

Like I don't see how that's possible in terms of sets available.

Is there some Group Buff i'm not seeing.

Cinnamon_Spider

Galalin wrote: »

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

40k? Please introduce me to these sorcs, because I (and all of the sorcs I know) must be doing something wrong. My hardened ward is just over 10k.
Or do you think that animation canceling a shield over and over increases the shield amount? Because it doesn't...

WRX

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

How are you guys breaking 4k weapon damage....I'm super weapon damage stacked and i can hit almost 3.5k

I play with people that hit over 4800. Bats hitting for 6k per tick and well over 10k steel tornado.

You are really lucky if you get over 2500 spell dmg, and even then it scales at a slower rate.

How on earth are they getting 4800 weapon damage?

Like I don't see how that's possible in terms of sets available.

Is there some Group Buff i'm not seeing.

This includes buffs like continuous attack and quite a few other ones.

Xsorus

WRX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

How are you guys breaking 4k weapon damage....I'm super weapon damage stacked and i can hit almost 3.5k

I play with people that hit over 4800. Bats hitting for 6k per tick and well over 10k steel tornado.

You are really lucky if you get over 2500 spell dmg, and even then it scales at a slower rate.

How on earth are they getting 4800 weapon damage?

Like I don't see how that's possible in terms of sets available.

Is there some Group Buff i'm not seeing.

This includes buffs like continuous attack and quite a few other ones.

Like I can see someone hitting 4k, if they give up Hundring Rage and use Ravager instead...you could get spurts of it (though Ravager when i had it only procced on Light/heavy attacks)

4.8 though..that's really pushing it.

I'm thinking it'd have to be either a Templar or Nightblade doing it..

Galalin

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

40k? Please introduce me to these sorcs, because I (and all of the sorcs I know) must be doing something wrong. My hardened ward is just over 10k.
Or do you think that animation canceling a shield over and over increases the shield amount? Because it doesn't...

I said 40k in shields... nowhere di i say 40k hardened ward... and where did you even come up with the nonsense of animation canceling stacking... thats just ridiculous



Dk

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Animation cancelling doesn't speed up the rate you can cast spells. There have been a few exception with stuff like WoE, the 3rd cast would go a bit faster.

40k Shields is extremely high. I walk around with something like 14565, barrier can be added to that.

But then considering 2h can hit for 12-16k and meteor can do over 30k, I see no issue here.

Cast a damage shield then hit block... it does shave time off.

alot of sorcs are running 40k or very close.

Yes a 2h can hit for 12-16k even with my weapon damage at 4050 i generally crit for 12-13k.... BUT... Crit does not count against shields... so hitting a shield for 12-16k with 2h or hitting meteor for 30k is impossible against a shield.... you can only get that dps if the shield is broken.

^^^^^ this is why i was asking for crit and dots to affect shields and i don't think that is unreasonable.

ADDED: you don't thnk that a damage shield recastable in a second that negates more crit damage than a full legendary set of armor plus shield with impen on every piece is a little OP... infact its not just more crit damage reduction its 100% crit damage reduction on top of that a free purge of all dots.

Thats before it even absorbs the 40k or whatever damage.

Idk but i do

DK SCRUB OUT

How are you guys breaking 4k weapon damage....I'm super weapon damage stacked and i can hit almost 3.5k

If you msg me in game @oODGROo i can go over exactly how

DK SCRUB OUT

Domander

Regen stacked sorc will not run out of stamina to break free, and will not run out of magicka to recast shields. I've seen this with more than 1 player trying to kill a sorc. The best you can do against this is a stalemate. It seems a bit broken.

I don't think it can be burst down (by a single player) because nothing hits hard enough to cancel out a 13k instant shield.

Galalin

Monday i will be making a thread directly appealing to ZoS to have what i consider necessary changes made to shields and how they work... i hope all my sorc friends understand this is for the benefit of the game... l you all very much so dont take it to much to heart. I would appreciate all your opinions (sorcs included) to help them understand from both sides and make the right choices.

So please keep your eyes peeled Mon.

DK SCRUB OUT

Ffastyl

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes I'm finding it pretty difficult to stay up as it is in some Vet dungeon runs while AoEing unless my healer is just spamming me with heals. Even animation cancelling my hardened ward (With full shield value) constantly isn't enough to keep mobs from ripping through my shields as fast as I can cast them.

I'm usually casting Hardened Ward, Hardened Ward, Impulse, Hardened ward, impulse etc. It's ridiculous.

If shields get nerfed further you're going to open the pits of hell and every carebear sorc in the game right now will flood these forums and rend people limb from limb.

This post brings up a view on the shield stacking issue I have not encountered yet. It has stirred my thoughts.

While damage shields can be powerful, they are also the main (and in some cases, only) defense for magicka based characters. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields will hurt the defense of magicka based characters, particularly if said characters wear Light Armor. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields is a knee-jerk reaction to the power achieved with them. Which brings me to @Snit 's post on the issue:

Snit wrote: »

It's the same crowd that can't figure out how to kill healers in any MMO. Shields make every sorc a healer, though they can only heal themselves.

It's burst damage and CC. It's worked the same way in every Pixelated ImaginationLand since these games existed. And in every iteration, there has been a crowd that just can't sort it out.

In my own experience of PvP/AvA, there are some damage shield combinations that are resilient. In small scale fights of one-vs-one or two-vs-one or of similar size, the "unbreakable" shields are renewed at about the same time the aggressor(s) deplete them. This can portray damage shield users as immortal when a lack of damage output on the attacker's side is the primary culprit. However, there can be a damage shield users that create shields of capacities over 35k. On the PTS, during 1.6.2 testing, a damage shield user arose with a 64k damage shield. The cause of this capacity has since been fixed, but that is not to say another player (or the same player) will attempt to reach similar capacities.

As reducing the effectiveness of damage shields can threaten magicka based playstyles, we need turn to how high capacity damage shields are made. What shields are combined, what passives amplify the shields, what kind of stats the caster has -- these must be considered to find the cause of "Immortal Shield Stackers." Please, inquire to the builds of shield stackers and post them here. With enough data, common traits can be discerned and the root of invulnerable shields found.

Galalin

Ffastyl wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes I'm finding it pretty difficult to stay up as it is in some Vet dungeon runs while AoEing unless my healer is just spamming me with heals. Even animation cancelling my hardened ward (With full shield value) constantly isn't enough to keep mobs from ripping through my shields as fast as I can cast them.

I'm usually casting Hardened Ward, Hardened Ward, Impulse, Hardened ward, impulse etc. It's ridiculous.

If shields get nerfed further you're going to open the pits of hell and every carebear sorc in the game right now will flood these forums and rend people limb from limb.

This post brings up a view on the shield stacking issue I have not encountered yet. It has stirred my thoughts.

While damage shields can be powerful, they are also the main (and in some cases, only) defense for magicka based characters. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields will hurt the defense of magicka based characters, particularly if said characters wear Light Armor. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields is a knee-jerk reaction to the power achieved with them. Which brings me to @Snit 's post on the issue:

Snit wrote: »

It's the same crowd that can't figure out how to kill healers in any MMO. Shields make every sorc a healer, though they can only heal themselves.

It's burst damage and CC. It's worked the same way in every Pixelated ImaginationLand since these games existed. And in every iteration, there has been a crowd that just can't sort it out.

In my own experience of PvP/AvA, there are some damage shield combinations that are resilient. In small scale fights of one-vs-one or two-vs-one or of similar size, the "unbreakable" shields are renewed at about the same time the aggressor(s) deplete them. This can portray damage shield users as immortal when a lack of damage output on the attacker's side is the primary culprit. However, there can be a damage shield users that create shields of capacities over 35k. On the PTS, during 1.6.2 testing, a damage shield user arose with a 64k damage shield. The cause of this capacity has since been fixed, but that is not to say another player (or the same player) will attempt to reach similar capacities.

As reducing the effectiveness of damage shields can threaten magicka based playstyles, we need turn to how high capacity damage shields are made. What shields are combined, what passives amplify the shields, what kind of stats the caster has -- these must be considered to find the cause of "Immortal Shield Stackers." Please, inquire to the builds of shield stackers and post them here. With enough data, common traits can be discerned and the root of invulnerable shields found.

Stay tuned for my post monday... i have a way to fix damage shields that will not harm any PvE aspect of them and yet still help balance it in PvP... it should be interesting to hear how the damage shield stackers respond to it

DK SCRUB OUT

Aimelin

Galalin wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes I'm finding it pretty difficult to stay up as it is in some Vet dungeon runs while AoEing unless my healer is just spamming me with heals. Even animation cancelling my hardened ward (With full shield value) constantly isn't enough to keep mobs from ripping through my shields as fast as I can cast them.

I'm usually casting Hardened Ward, Hardened Ward, Impulse, Hardened ward, impulse etc. It's ridiculous.

If shields get nerfed further you're going to open the pits of hell and every carebear sorc in the game right now will flood these forums and rend people limb from limb.

This post brings up a view on the shield stacking issue I have not encountered yet. It has stirred my thoughts.

While damage shields can be powerful, they are also the main (and in some cases, only) defense for magicka based characters. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields will hurt the defense of magicka based characters, particularly if said characters wear Light Armor. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields is a knee-jerk reaction to the power achieved with them. Which brings me to @Snit 's post on the issue:

Snit wrote: »

It's the same crowd that can't figure out how to kill healers in any MMO. Shields make every sorc a healer, though they can only heal themselves.

It's burst damage and CC. It's worked the same way in every Pixelated ImaginationLand since these games existed. And in every iteration, there has been a crowd that just can't sort it out.

In my own experience of PvP/AvA, there are some damage shield combinations that are resilient. In small scale fights of one-vs-one or two-vs-one or of similar size, the "unbreakable" shields are renewed at about the same time the aggressor(s) deplete them. This can portray damage shield users as immortal when a lack of damage output on the attacker's side is the primary culprit. However, there can be a damage shield users that create shields of capacities over 35k. On the PTS, during 1.6.2 testing, a damage shield user arose with a 64k damage shield. The cause of this capacity has since been fixed, but that is not to say another player (or the same player) will attempt to reach similar capacities.

As reducing the effectiveness of damage shields can threaten magicka based playstyles, we need turn to how high capacity damage shields are made. What shields are combined, what passives amplify the shields, what kind of stats the caster has -- these must be considered to find the cause of "Immortal Shield Stackers." Please, inquire to the builds of shield stackers and post them here. With enough data, common traits can be discerned and the root of invulnerable shields found.

Stay tuned for my post monday... i have a way to fix damage shields that will not harm any PvE aspect of them and yet still help balance it in PvP... it should be interesting to hear how the damage shield stackers respond to it

DK SCRUB OUT

so in all the posts you made talking about sorcs animation canceling shields, im sure you do the same with ur 2H abilities and weave in dem 5k-10k heavy attacks ....

so you just wanna kill people faster than you allready can, thats awesome
all the while only sorcs have a real physical dmg absorbing shield, other classes have to make due with a broken/bugged bone shield that does jack ***

Galalin

Aimelin wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes I'm finding it pretty difficult to stay up as it is in some Vet dungeon runs while AoEing unless my healer is just spamming me with heals. Even animation cancelling my hardened ward (With full shield value) constantly isn't enough to keep mobs from ripping through my shields as fast as I can cast them.

I'm usually casting Hardened Ward, Hardened Ward, Impulse, Hardened ward, impulse etc. It's ridiculous.

If shields get nerfed further you're going to open the pits of hell and every carebear sorc in the game right now will flood these forums and rend people limb from limb.

This post brings up a view on the shield stacking issue I have not encountered yet. It has stirred my thoughts.

While damage shields can be powerful, they are also the main (and in some cases, only) defense for magicka based characters. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields will hurt the defense of magicka based characters, particularly if said characters wear Light Armor. Reducing the effectiveness of damage shields is a knee-jerk reaction to the power achieved with them. Which brings me to @Snit 's post on the issue:

Snit wrote: »

It's the same crowd that can't figure out how to kill healers in any MMO. Shields make every sorc a healer, though they can only heal themselves.

It's burst damage and CC. It's worked the same way in every Pixelated ImaginationLand since these games existed. And in every iteration, there has been a crowd that just can't sort it out.

In my own experience of PvP/AvA, there are some damage shield combinations that are resilient. In small scale fights of one-vs-one or two-vs-one or of similar size, the "unbreakable" shields are renewed at about the same time the aggressor(s) deplete them. This can portray damage shield users as immortal when a lack of damage output on the attacker's side is the primary culprit. However, there can be a damage shield users that create shields of capacities over 35k. On the PTS, during 1.6.2 testing, a damage shield user arose with a 64k damage shield. The cause of this capacity has since been fixed, but that is not to say another player (or the same player) will attempt to reach similar capacities.

As reducing the effectiveness of damage shields can threaten magicka based playstyles, we need turn to how high capacity damage shields are made. What shields are combined, what passives amplify the shields, what kind of stats the caster has -- these must be considered to find the cause of "Immortal Shield Stackers." Please, inquire to the builds of shield stackers and post them here. With enough data, common traits can be discerned and the root of invulnerable shields found.

Stay tuned for my post monday... i have a way to fix damage shields that will not harm any PvE aspect of them and yet still help balance it in PvP... it should be interesting to hear how the damage shield stackers respond to it

DK SCRUB OUT

so in all the posts you made talking about sorcs animation canceling shields, im sure you do the same with ur 2H abilities and weave in dem 5k-10k heavy attacks ....

so you just wanna kill people faster than you allready can, thats awesome
all the while only sorcs have a real physical dmg absorbing shield, other classes have to make due with a broken/bugged bone shield that does jack ***

I don't use DEM heavy attacks... and if you read the previous posts you would know what my complaints are... tbh i can live with the 40kish so shield part... if you re read my posts then maybe you will understand the rest... if not you can wait till monday for me to enlighten you. Although the shield stacking with animation cancel allows for massive shields to be recast in little to no time.... thats the smallest of my issues with shields

DK SCRUB OUT

bloodenragedb14_ESO

WRX wrote: »

I tried to keep reading this, but I just cant. The people in here crying are just ridiculous. Stamina users complaining that they can't kill burst people fast enough and that builds are less diverse? Is that real? Builds are infinitely more diverse than they used to be, and stamina has by far the highest DPS.

Shields are not hard to break through, especially with stam 2H builds. What I am hearing is a major issue with the attackers build.

If someone has a better build should they not be rewarded? Or should we all just have the exact same stats, come on now. You could do something very similar if you chose.

Instead you want to be some sneaky ninja that crawls around in the darkness, or holds RMB and wonders why they cant kill anyone. Pick and choose, everyone has their counter.

agreed, it take skill and experimentation to create a build, and every time someone finds a good one, someone decides its 'op'. all they are are just children, unable to grasp that someone else is better than them. if you want a truly balanced pvp experiance, play a first person shooter. but even then, ill bet they will be the ones that go to that shooters forum and cry about the sniper rifle doing to much damage, and its unfair for assualt rifle users.

Galalin

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I tried to keep reading this, but I just cant. The people in here crying are just ridiculous. Stamina users complaining that they can't kill burst people fast enough and that builds are less diverse? Is that real? Builds are infinitely more diverse than they used to be, and stamina has by far the highest DPS.

Shields are not hard to break through, especially with stam 2H builds. What I am hearing is a major issue with the attackers build.

If someone has a better build should they not be rewarded? Or should we all just have the exact same stats, come on now. You could do something very similar if you chose.

Instead you want to be some sneaky ninja that crawls around in the darkness, or holds RMB and wonders why they cant kill anyone. Pick and choose, everyone has their counter.

agreed, it take skill and experimentation to create a build, and every time someone finds a good one, someone decides its 'op'. all they are are just children, unable to grasp that someone else is better than them. if you want a truly balanced pvp experiance, play a first person shooter. but even then, ill bet they will be the ones that go to that shooters forum and cry about the sniper rifle doing to much damage, and its unfair for assualt rifle users.

I'm far from a child young man

there is a big difference between a better player and a better build (not sure how you came to the conclusion they are one and the same here)

I can and have beaten some of the best socrs in the game and this thread... im not basing my issues off my failure to beat a certain class.

The fact your even comparing an MMO to a FPS is completely laughable and further reduces the value of your statement

Just had to add: if you call figuring out how to stack shields a build... idk what to say to that.

I'm waiting for your reply... and im guessing it goes something like "your a stupid head"

DK SCRUB OUT

RivenEsq

No, I do not feel that damage shields are too much. If someone is using their resources and casting time on shields, they are not doing damage.

These shields are often the only defense light armor wearers have. Taking it away would certainly trash their survivability. What are sorcerers who are apparently "OP" supposed to run for survival? Or are they just not allowed to have anything that keeps them alive? But, DKs get to run all the stuff they do right and be tanky because that's totally fine?

I don't know why everyone takes aim at sorcerers all the time, but it really ticks me off. If you can't figure out how to CC and focus a light armored player, then I don't know what to say. These "immortal" sorcerers don't seem to be doing insane damage to me most of the time. I can also think of several DK builds that accomplish much of the same thing.

Right now, I think there is pretty good balance in the game and Galalin's constant complaints don't make me think otherwise as to the balance of damage shields. Everyone likes to think they are a developer, when they really just want to gut whatever class they lost to when they don't even play it.

Snit

Galalin wrote: »

Right now, I think there is pretty good balance in the game and Galalin's constant complaints don't make me think otherwise as to the balance of damage shields. Everyone likes to think they are a developer, when they really just want to gut whatever class they lost to when they don't even play it.

He's just having fun. It's a combination of trolling ("I'm just here to stir the pot"), hyperbole ("a lot of sorcs run around with 40k in instacast shields") and lookit-me-attention-please ("wait until I release my enlightening manifesto on Monday").

It's the internet, right?

Cinbri

The more posts i read defending OP the less reasonable logic in it.

OtarTheMad

Being in Light Armor already puts you at a massive disadvantage in PvP especially with 2 handed hitting so hard and weapon damage stackers, not to mention siege damage and someone wants to nerf damage shields MORE???!!! Are you insane?? Look, in Elder Scrolls game mages or anyone who wore cloth always had a disadvantage but you always had Mage Armor spells you make up for it... beauty of being a mage. I don't see a problem the way things are now with damage shields.

I mean doesn't 25% of the damage inflicted ignore the shield anyway in PvP? Not to mention siege damage, as I mentioned, can one shot most in light armor... shield or no shield. Damage shields are just fine.

TheBull

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Being in Light Armor already puts you at a massive disadvantage in PvP especially with 2 handed hitting so hard and weapon damage stackers, not to mention siege damage and someone wants to nerf damage shields MORE???!!! Are you insane?? Look, in Elder Scrolls game mages or anyone who wore cloth always had a disadvantage but you always had Mage Armor spells you make up for it... beauty of being a mage. I don't see a problem the way things are now with damage shields.

I mean doesn't 25% of the damage inflicted ignore the shield anyway in PvP? Not to mention siege damage, as I mentioned, can one shot most in light armor... shield or no shield. Damage shields are just fine.

No it does not. In fact they prevent crits and many secondary effects.

RoamingRiverElk

It always surprises me when a damage output focused player complains about someone actually managing to survive their bursts. Should everyone just lay down and die to them??

When someone is using a purely defensive skill such as hardened ward, igneous shield or harness magicka, they are not putting out damage.

TheBull

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

It always surprises me when a damage output focused player complains about someone actually managing to survive their bursts. Should everyone just lay down and die to them??

When someone is using a purely defensive skill such as hardened ward, igneous shield or harness magicka, they are not putting out damage.

Well what I've said many times is I believe ward is a great skill. It allows sorcerers a lot of stat allocation flexibility. Heck it's even in line with traditional RP lore, the physically weak mage with awesome magic.

I have no problem with the strength of ward. I think the duration is too long though. Right now it's used like a pre-combat buff. I also don't think it should prevent secondary effects.